Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[lepidoptery]

LOOOL I hate them lol

... do bathroom pics have some cultural significance I'm missing that would make someone hate them or is it just you?  None of you are Yoochun('s victims?) in disguise, I assume. o.o

 

... or did you just mean whoever told messica to send you a picture. XD

[lepidoptery]

No. no, I LOVE bathrooms. A good bathroom like yes omg. I've seen Keith's bathroom and it was pretty nice; nice shower. I'm saying I hate Matheus and Haruko for asking him bathroom pics behind my back so I would have incentive to work on my analyses.

looooooooooooooool

[lepidoptery]

 

Vocal Range
B2 ~ D5 (2 Octaves, 1 note and 1 semitone)
Supported Range
Eb3 ~ F4/F#4

Voice Type

Light Lyric Tenor

Read more by clicking the link here!

I got worried because the only real strengths not already inferrable from the supported range is ok falsetto transitions and rarely being nasal and thought he might be less than average even though he supports a smidge over an octave.  But I guess none of the weaknesses are really unusual for average!  It's too bad about the nodules... what are the usual causes for nodules again?

 

EDIT: Daehyun's my default reference for AA tenor, but maybe I should just keep Youngjae in mind as my average reference even if he's a baritone... his strengths seem similar-ish to Baekho's, minus the baritone fluff, with a little musicianship bonus, and the weaknesses are also similar with the lack of resonance, head voice, and meh runs... are these two middling average or on the lower end?

 

EDIT: ALSO also, is there a reason to write it as Eb3 ~ F4/F#4 rather than D#3 ~ F4/F#4?  I was thinking Youngjae had a slightly wider supported range when it's actually just the same.

Edited June 23, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

 

Somebody just posted this:

 

Chris Martin Talks About Rihanna:

 

“She is the Frank Sinatra of our generation. She can turn anything into gold with that voice. Here’s the thing: if you speak to a good singing teacher about great opera singers, they will talk about consistency of tone. Or there’s a book by Alfred Tomatis about why some people like certain people’s voices and other people hate them, like Bob Dylan or me or whoever, some people say, ‘Oh, I hate that voice’, so there’s a thing about people’s frequency responses – what they are pleased by. Rihanna has this thick tone, so it’s very hard to annoy anybody. It’s like a beautifully squeezed tube of toothpaste. When you think of Rihanna’s voice you think of this whole, rich thing, solid like a tree trunk, and. Drake is pretty similar. But Rihanna’s voice is just delicious for your ear. Sinatra had the same thing; anything he sang sounded pleasing to most people.”


https://www.theguard...alls-and-brexit

 

... no, I'm pretty annoyed by her voice on a regular basis, and it has nothing to do with how good I thought she actually was.  This toothpaste analogy is kind of weird, though. XD  But my sister likes her voice, so eh.

[lepidoptery]

is tone all they have to talk about when it comes to great opera singers cause im p sure great teachers would at least also talk about freedom of sound by means of complete lack of tension everywhere, properly lowered larynx, perfect coordination of chest to head muscles, huge resonance and immense projection (or idk actually like something other than just tone?? Tone production is important too tho ofc)    :dave: 

tone is so subjective like I don't like rihanna's tone lol who is this guy. Im p sure frank sinatra had a pleasant voice because he had pretty good technique  :dave:

Chris Martin is the singer of Coldplay.  (I think they did a collab with Rihanna once, actually.)

[lepidoptery]

This wont come as a surprise but I play Jessica' FLY a Semitone higher so that I hear her slaying C5s instead of B4s. Samething with Taeyeon's I so i hear her slaying Eb5s instead of D5s.


What kind of desperation

.................................................

 

EDIT: upvoted for incredible lameness

Edited June 25, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

im so glad i heard the slayage before it got deleted out of existence

What was the context, though?

[lepidoptery]

 

Vocal Range
Bb2 ~ F#6 (3 Octaves and 4 notes)
Supported Range
F3 ~ F4/F#4

Voice Type

Light Lyric Tenor

Read more by clicking the link here!

 

Barely over an octave of support and I gave him the head voice "bonus" to still be average, whoo.  I'm guessing he's lower-or-mid average, because he's just barely over an octave, which is a smidge less than all the other LLT's in his class (who have support starting Eb3, E3, or E3/F3).  There's no mention of resonance anywhere so he shouldn't be high average.  But... he does have a head voice, which also seems unlike the other LLT's in his class.  OTOH you don't really say anything about his pitch-accuracy outside of runs or about vibrato, which could be neutral.  And he might get a musicianship bonus, but a small one.

Edited June 28, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

You make it sound a lot more like RPG than it's really supposed to be. lol It's not always about the supported range or how wide his supported range is, it's also about the consistency of connection of breath support and fulness in tone. Ken supports like an average vocalist and has one octave of supported range which is just fine. His lower range might not be very good but his overall support has improved to make him average overall.

Well of course he's average overall... you said to someone else to just guess where within average he falls while waiting for the chart, though. XD

 

Looking at your future analyses list... I kind of feel like BTS could come out sooner than later since they have regular comebacks and activity... unless they each aren't displaying enough of their range to do so or something....

 

Cross Gene's Seyoung... it seemed pretty obvious he was better than Yongseok.  Is Yongseok weak, though?  I don't really listen to them outside of one song, but he just seems to have issues in it. XD;;;

[lepidoptery]

theyre a 2013 debut so they're coming. I don't even think of Cross Gene tbh lol

I didn't think of them until I saw them on the (maybe someday eventually if I've got nothing else to do) list... but you must have heard enough to decide Seyoung seemed the strongest, right? XD

[lepidoptery]

This guy knows what's up

Who is this. XD  MNet... is this god of music again?

[lepidoptery]

This vocalist is weak. It has a loud bark but no support. It's very throaty. There is also a need to raise the larynx when singing. It's tongue is also a huge problem as well. It hands out and interrupts the breath flow. I think they need to go back to the drawing board and make this dog a trainee again. 

The vocal instructor is pulling his face like that to help him get the idea of good placement (smiley technique!) so I think there is some hope for his situation since the teacher isn't totally clueless.

[lepidoptery]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/neo_cultured/status/739492418282749952/video/1[/tweet]

LMAO these are all Gold :lol:

Why is it always this Whitney song, though XD

[lepidoptery]

Sorry if this has been asked before but are youngguk and himchan from bap baritones? And is TOP one as well?

Only Daehyun and Jongup are tenors!  :derp:  And TOP should be a baritone, yes.

 

this is a cool demonstration to add to this. It's an old baritone singer from the 30s and 40s singing in a thin mix (comprised mostly of CT and just a bit of TA), how most guys and girls sing in contemporary today, and then his classical voice (maximum TA with a lot of CT). It's a long clip but it's basically a demonstration on why developing chest and falsetto is crucial to learning to coordinate both of them together.

 

https://soundcloud.com/ceeyc/778678587k

 

6:50-7:07 he sings in a pop mix essentially, only in 1940s style/phrasing, and 7:15-7:34 he sings in classical voice. This is what it sounds like to go from a so-called "lyric" to some pop listeners, to sounding like his actual subtype in weight and size, as he is a baritone on the bigger side who can sing next to spintos and dramatics.

I... kind of need a transcript... although the part you pointed out was understandable enough....

 

Kind of assuming he's casting massive shade all over the "radio singers"....

[lepidoptery]

Weird how PCD is basically the LDH model (which came first) except LDH vocalists don't dance as much....

[lepidoptery]

what is LDH

 

what I think when I see that isn't what you mean I'm sure  

 

there were a lot of other 'groups' before PCD with only 1 person singing primarily, going back the 50s. 

True!

 

LDH (Love Dream Happiness) is the japanese agency that has some of the most popular/prominent boygroups and to a certain extent girlgroups in Japan after Johnnies and the 48/46s, I guess.  There are vocalists and "performers" and basically the performers don't sing at all (unless they (only male ones so far) suddenly decide they want to rap, maybe) (except for the girlgroup Dream, but they predate LDH and the LDH model) and the vocalists aren't expected to dance much at all (except for maybe 2 vocalist-performers, but their group was subsumed into another, which already had 2 vocalist-only vocalists, so I dunno if they did much dancing in their new primary group).

[lepidoptery]

100%'s back!  ... but their analyses are already written so I guess it doesn't change anything....

 

Erm, the way the chose to handle the group basically killed any chance of a solo career, by the end her image was in the dumps 

 

and on topic, she sings Whitney a lot.

 

the way he goes sharp at 1:24

 

What about all the pitchiness that came before that.... 

 

I see, yeah I know exile. 

 

I have mixed feelings on set ups like that, I really do prefer kpop model of giving everyone at least one lol 

Yeah, if you mostly just listen to music the non-singers may as well not exist which I'd think could be awkward fandom-wise....

[lepidoptery]

I'll give it a try, lol.

 

Judy's sounds so bold, full and forward. While I think Laura's sounds a little whinnier, probably her larynx raised a bit? I also think both used different placement, but I'm not sure.

Sounds like the description for a (disgusting) wine... or coffee.

 

I'm having trouble identifying the notes Yeonjung is singing here... Not asking if they're good lol I know the answer

 

"itjimarajoYO(F5?) /// oh~(G5?)"

Seems like it's supposed to be F5-G5F5D#5, then F#5... so on preview I agree with Dan.

[lepidoptery]

...the differences in the way they were bad is that Judy's note is just woofy/artificially dark/poorly coordinated and so were the few notes she did before it. everything she did in the video before that was fine with better clarity and vowel definition, but then she just decides to go all pseudo-classical in the last bit. Laura is just spread, thin, tight, also poorly coordinated and so her vibrato is way too fast.

Can you expand on what "woofy" means... I mean, I guess I can maybe figure it out since you say those notes were and everything before that wasn't, but still....

[lepidoptery]

Lymph nodes are a complete misunderstanding. Lymph Nodes are things we ALL have and they get swollen once we're sick, with a bacterial infection. They have no effect on one's singing and are not a problem for her, not to the point of her having technical issues cause of her lymph nodes. Lymph nodes are NOT the same as vocal nodules, but many people misunderstand that. 

There is a general misunderstanding about lymph nodes, but I think there's also a more specific misunderstanding wrt Bom... I have read some BJs say that she has/had some kind of (chronic?) illness that causes her lymph nodes to swell and to be painful, which can have an effect on her singing/output.  Not so much that her poor technique did whatever to her lymph nodes, even if she presumably damaged her voice in other ways.  (Although one can imagine that because of how they feel/affect her voice, she would sing in even less healthy ways than she would otherwise and further damage her voice.)

[lepidoptery]

if you listen to this video, his low notes definitely start to appear bass-baritone, and that is because his larynx isn't neutral. Yeah not every skilled pop singer sings with a neutral larynx at all times (but 95% do), though I'm sure you've been told they do 100 times. His low notes sound drastically different than his higher ones because he is choosing to sing the low notes with a lower larynx, and then for his high notes he is leaving it more neutral.

 

0:17s into the video, Avi sings the G#3 the way he sings his low notes--lower larynx

2:58 to 3:03 he sings up to Bb3 in the way he sings his low notes--lower larynx

6:09 he hits an F#4 the way he sings his low notes--lower larynx

So... is his larynx properly lowered when he does it or nah?  Does this only apply to (non-tenor?) males or are contraltos/mezzos also supposed to do this?

[lepidoptery]

Not in like a full-on advanced classical manner but it is definitely healthy and coordinated. You mean for pop singers? no he is doing that because he sings bass in the group, and people actually expect a bass in the acapella group to have very full, rich low notes so he can get away with singing with a lower larynx in that area. But what people don't expect just about any dude to have these days is very full, heavy high notes, so most singers are just leaving it neutral-ish from bottom to top. And Avi clearly does the same as well, even though he can do his high notes like he does his low notes if he felt like it, but a man's timbre is generally altered too much in a properly lowered larynx position + the lower (relatively speaking) pitch they sing in (in the 3rd and 4th octave) makes it unsuitable for the expectations of a modern pop sound.

No, I actually meant opera and other genres in which lowering the larynx is the expected execution.  Are sopranos/tenors also supposed to lower their larynx?  Are they ever expected to sing low enough for that to happen?

[lepidoptery]

what if she joins YG after Kpop Star   I remember she's Rose's friend   

Then she'll get the dungeon forever. >:|  Join JYP... at the worst she'll be Jimin, but maybe she'll get to be a BAY/Yerin.  Or JYP can have her save the vocals for the group Somi will eventually be in, even if it will probably be a bit of a waste.

[lepidoptery]

I don't think the winner will join any of those companies, but this round it will promote under those three companies.

 

"The winner of the final season will not choose which company to debut with, but instead will be jointly debuted and promoted by all three companies (YG, JYP, Antenna)" (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-pop_Star_6)

 

So, I'm seeing this being more like an i.O.i. type thing where they promote under other company (in this case 3 companies working together) and then return to their original company. Because otherwise, promoting under those 3 companies for a long period of time screams mess, imo.

Yes, I saw that.  I want her to like being promoted by all those non-MBK companies so much and for those companies' reps (aside from YG) to like her so much that one of them will buy out her contract from MBK.

[lepidoptery]

I feel you are doubting her intelligence. Jessica took lessons for many years and what you're telling me is that the concept of lifting the palate never was brought up? That's hard to believe. Also there is no other way to describe that other than that.

Besides, if she somehow doesn't know I'm pretty sure she can google....