Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Jstarfully]

0:23-0:25 , Seohyun does the lower part and taeyeon does the higher part

 

Really? Actually yeah that could be Seohyun. Urgh vocal post-processing why must you make my life so hard?? 

[Jstarfully]

She does sound like she's straining more than she usually does at that D5 though, or is that just me? Idk maybe it's one of her weird transition-area notes though, cus I can struggle like that on a C5 even though it's easy to hit, per se, the mix is just hard to find.

[Jstarfully]

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBPEPVoEfKc

 

Do you guys have any thoughts on Rose's performance here? I came across it randomly on YouTube, and although I'm pretty sure it's not that much of an improvement from her other Masked King performance. She sounds a little more ?relaxed? here and I can hear vibrato on sustained notes in the chorus, but I don't know if the vibrato is natural or something that she's consciously trying to produce (along with her indie pronunciation  ). People were commenting how they could hear Rose's natural voice at some bits - the one that isn't forced by YG coaches or whatever.

 

I wonder what her real tone sounds like. I don't think she's very chesty, her voice seems to "ring" more as it gets higher, so would she be heady? I'm not an expert at vocals but I'm very fascinated by the subject so forgive me if any terms are not right

 

She should've picked a different song, at least imo. The low parts are just annoying to my ear, so unsupported and you probably wouldn't hear it more than a couple of feet away from her if she didn't have that mic. I can't believe that in kpop they don't make girls practice supporting anything below middle C. But then if she'd raised the key she'd probably be struggling even more on the high notes.

 

Idk Rose is one of those vocalists that I really pity for being in YG. Like she's actually gotten worse since she's been there. There's a song she collabed with one of the BB guys on and she was only 15/16 there but she sounds way better in every aspect. I would go and look for that if you want more of an idea of what her 'natural' sound might be.

 

That vibrato you mentioned doesn't sound comfortable to me, but it might sound okay to other people. However either way vibrato =/= relaxed.

 

A voice that 'rings' more as it gets higher usually just indicates where a singer is most comfortable with their voice and overall mix. A soprano finds their 'lift' higher in their register than altos, who sound more impressive at lower pitches.

 

EDIT: Also, OT, but God the BP girls looked like skin and bones back when they promoted PWF. From their insta lately they look like they've got a little bit of weight back but tbh I'm not liking YG's overall attitude to the female idols under his label lately. I mean, he's never been the type of boss you'd want as a girl but it's getting worse and worse imo

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

So Starship has two new crossover musicians around now, Baek Intae & Yoo Seulgi (Duetto).

 

Tenor C right at the end. Funny how the voice type obsession extends to this too. Other high notes are G and Ab if you want to listen along without your piano. It's cool that they went to this company.

 

Dang that C was pretty impressive. Sounded a little strained from the 'tight' sound of it, but I feel like most of the rest was well-placed so it's impressive. They sound more like classical singers than pop/rnb style wise though, that constant slightly lowered larynx and full, round sound. Unusual coming from Starship, I guess.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

In the performance linked above, I really don't believe she's straining. There are times where she is pushing it a bit, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it strained or really even "tense." I feel the main issue is her tone quality, but I feel it is because she's trying to be more stylistic rather than technical. She's not really rounding out her tone by making the vowels taller and more narrow; she's really going for an edgy sound and you can tell by the mouth shape especially on the "it's not fine."  @1:30 that D5 is definitely supported, but her vowel is definitely being made edgy and abrasive for style she even does the same thing at @1:28 on that B4(?) right before the D5. If you compare those examples to 1:40 that D5 there is definitely a difference in tone quality because she's rounding the sound out more, in addition if you compare it to the 1:57 on that D5 she pretty much rounds her sound out complete because "Oh" is just really hard to make edgy....and it still sound good.

 

Hmm yeah, maybe it's a stylistic thing. Idk for me it's hard to tell these things with Taeyeon because the way she sounds on her bad days is very unlike how she sounds on her good days, strain and placement-wise. I'm still not convinced it's just stylistic, seeing as how she's been struggling with various things lately, but it very well could be and I'm just not used to hearing people deliberately sing like that.

[Jstarfully]

0:23-0:25

It's Seohyun on the bottom note and then Taeyeon on the top and then Jessica doing the "ohs" and then Taeyeon singing after her.

 

That high note is definitely TaeYeon and Seohyun..because well..Seohyun is actually singing like she has a line before that and then they just added TaeYeon top.

 

It's definitely not Jessica's voice on the top it just doesn't have the same kind of tone quality that she normally has up there. I am curious as to what you mean by her sounding weak and terribly unsupported in her lower range because Jessica in the lower portion of her voice is relatively solid. I definitely wouldn't call it "weak" or "unsupported" unless she is actually singing something that she actually doesn't support.

 

No, I'm pretty sure she's not unsupported in her lower range, although it's been a while since I took time to scrutinize any of SNSD's voices in detail really. It's just that, to me, because of the way her voice is it sounds like that, and it becomes hard to tell where is supported and where isn't. I feel like Jessica can be a little inconsistent too, some days her tone sounds full and strong, some days it sounds ungrounded and wobbly.

[Jstarfully]

How do you feel about people who say dancing is no talent because you can learn it but singing is because you can't learn how to sing ? It's a bullshit statement, no ? What's your opinion ? I mean how many Idols or "tone deaf" K-Pop Idols would be able to at least reach the average level with the right vocal coach and kind of training in your opinion ? A majority, no ?

 

Isn't the opposite true though? With a capable vocal coach and some time, dedication and hard work, almost anyone can learn how to sing. However with dance, even if you have the best teachers, some people will just always look awkward even if they're technically doing the moves right and jumping through the correct hoops.

[Jstarfully]

What do you mean by that she has been struggling with various things Because that's fairly vague, and I don't really know what you are referring to. I understand she had pitch issues at her concert in the first day and has been pushing some of those D5s, but I haven't really noticed anything truly out of the ordinary with her, or at least nothing that can't be related back to her schedule right now. I am responsible for updating her analysis so these kind of things I need to look into if there really is any kind of change. If you listen to I, you'll hear that she also sang in the same way that she does in Fine especially on the on the "Sky I I I I" Yknow when she repeats the word "I" lol.

 

I mean super recently, like those concerts the days before that video - all the things that can be attributed to her schedule. But I feel like when she first came out with both I and Fine and during the promotions it sounded like she was singing those D5s effortlessly, and whether she's doing it stylistically or not, they sound more laboured than they used to.

 

Am I just imagining things? Maybe, that's honestly totally plausible lol  I had 1.5hrs sleep last night, I have three assignments and tests in the upcoming week and I'm going through bad withdrawal from my antidepressants because my repeat prescription was delayed.

[Jstarfully]

Just making sure I got this right because of her tone its hard for you to tell when she is support and when she isn't? Yes, Jessica is definitely inconsistent in what she does, but in that area in which supports she does fine. I guess what I am saying is that you won't catch Jessica straining an A4 or like a Bb4 or even B4 really.

 

Yup, you got it haha I think it's because the biggest way I tell whether someone is supporting or not is if their voice sounds 'grounded' and stable or not. Hard to describe, but essentially Jessica often sounds like she isn't just because of her crazy light tone.

[Jstarfully]

I don't think "annoying to my ear" is a constructive way of criticizing someone's technique. "I can't believe that in kpop they dont make girls practice supporting anything below middle C" ...I'm sorry, but what kind of general statement is this and based on what evidence? Like I'm sorry, but this just kind of seems too general and namely incorrect because many sopranos in K-pop who actually support can support below middle C. 

 

Actually now that I'm talking to you directly. Do you mind introducing yourself? I am not sure if we know each other, and you seem kind of new here and I've been busy/away so I might have missed something, did you like tell us anything about yourself? I'd be interested to know! ^ ^

 

Fair. I honestly was just tired and couldn't be bothered to put a technical sentence together, but I could've waited until I wasn't or for someone else to answer the question.

 

But you do agree that generally kpop idol sopranos tend to have problems supporting below middle C, yes? That's not to say I haven't heard those who do, but, at least to me, it feels as if I hear someone get a low note out solely with air, throatiness and no support far more times than a someone singing low where the vocal cords 'close' properly and the resulting note is clear as well as well-placed. If you disagree, I'd be happy to hear some examples of those who do, because at this point I really feel like it's kind of a shame. Although of course, it does make sense that in a genre such as kpop, which tends to be placed in even higher keys for female vocal-lead songs than pop songs already are, that they'd focus more on the high notes.

 

I'm bad with introductions but uh... I'm Julia   I'm 20 and my first instrument was piano. Around piano grade 5-6 or so at age 13/14, my advancements came frustratingly slow and I switched attention on improving my vocals. I did a lot of reading to start turning what I could do naturally into an actual skill, and I'm just lucky that I already knew a lot of music theory beforehand. At the end of high school, aged 17, I applied and received a BMus scholarship with a classical composition/production/arrangement portfolio as well as a piano/vocal performance portfolio and then got into a double major Musicology/Jazz. Parents didn't believe in me so I declined, and I'm now spending my spare time while doing Medicinal Chemistry furthering my vocals with a tutor I got in contact with through the scholarship application process.

I mostly work with SLS, although I don't teach so much as tutor different choirs and ensembles, as well as coach students for their music assessments at a couple of my old high schools, since that's really all I can do without a music degree anyway 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

Wait random question. In Taeyeon's video, how could she have shot hair and long hair at the same time? I thought she cut her hair again then I saw the long ponytail at the front. What hairstyle is that?

 

Well unless the short bits are somehow fake and I've become old and don't know how the kids (lol Taeyeon is like 8 years older than me) do their hair anymore, the long parts are extensions. But anyway, that's OT and neither here nor there 

[Jstarfully]

Supporting below middle C is kind of general because I don't think we have analyzed any sopranos who couldn't at least get a B3 out with some support. I do agree that in K-pop in general both tenors and sopranos and even at times baritones completely neglect focusing on developing their lower range in favor of developing a more extensive mixed voice range, despite not being supported per se. I'd say it's very common that sopranos in K-pop lose support around Bb3/A3, commonly. The more skilled ones have very nice lower ranges down to like G#3/G3/F#3. Namely Tiffany, Jessica, Seohyun, Solji, Soyou, Minzy, YeEun, Raina, Hyorin, Eunji, Wendy, Taeyeon, Jimin, Luna, Lina and Ailee. Some even as low as F3, like BoA and Dana, and some even Eb3 at times, like U.ji. But most of the times even the more averagely skilled sopranos can at least handle notes down to Bb3, generally. 

 

Hi Julia!! ^ ^ I am glad to put a name to your username lol Awww I am so sorry, I am heartbroken that you didn't pursue music in college but if it's something that you love and are passionate about, I hope you can find your way back to it! Also SLS is fine, it works but I've seen some people being taught some nasty things if they only use SLS, like some SLS instructor I know would literally move his larynx with every single note he'd hit in a 5 note scale. 

 

Are you familiar with the KpopVocalAnalysis blog?

 

Yeah the sopranos that do consistently technically well in their higher range seem to do so in their lower range too. Imo I think it comes with learning to mix and support high, then you kind of automatically do it in your lower range too because you're used to what support and proper placement feels like.

 

Having a different larynx position on every note in a 5-note scale almost sounds like an achievement lol I'd have to put actual effort in for my larynx to noticeably move that much throughout any scale that's well in my range. 

 

I don't blame my parents for pushing me towards more heavily academic subjects, since I think they always thought that was going to be my thing anyway. Top of my class throughout most of school and always knew way more medical science than anyone else at my age really should. They just kinda told me that music should be a hobby, not a career. Besides, my dream music-related career would be a producer or vocal coach, both being quite saturated occupations that can be hard to break into. 

 

Yup I'm familiar 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

Shhh so I will make a couple more of these. Debunking K-pop Vocal Myths

1. Cracking

2. Stable

3. V's high notes in Stigma

4. Baritones in K-pop

 

Also Vocal Tips for head voice lol 

 

Omg pls yes spill the tea 

[Jstarfully]

girl I pioneered the myth that Taeyeon is better vocally with blonde hair (lost in love C5s, UR D5s, express 999 Eb5 that was resonant, The E5 that we thought was resonant, she started showing consistent support on D5 as a blonde etc.)

do not underestimate the value of Taeyeon's hair color LOLOL. 

 

But yeah the D5 in the clip is supported but I dunno if it was resonant, as the caption of the poster might imply. Not saying it wasn't though, i can't tell lol

 

Can I get your prediction of Taeyeon's vocals with this hair colour:

 

It's her recently, people are thinking it's for the SNSD comeback and I demand a prediction from you as the resident hair expert 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

Can someone analyze Dawon & Yeon Jung in this performance ?

How is it compared to Yeon Jung's before debut

I think her before debut seems much better?

 

 

 

I honestly don't hear much of a difference and I've listened to the same stretch of 10 secs of both videos or so at least 20 times now. It could honestly be solely attributed to the speaker systems being different, but personally I do think that all the very high notes she's been straining out (a la that painful-sounding note in Secret) have hurt her voice to some extent, making it sound a little thinner nowadays.

[Jstarfully]

Thanks for your reply

Hoping that Yeon Jung gets better & not straining too much

It seems nothing change much

 

I wonder if she can fix it ?

I do not want it to affect her vocal in the long term 

 

Even if you're straining high notes, say, every day, it still usually takes at least a few months or so to do long-term damage. I don't think Yeonjung has been straining high notes on the regular though, she just strains a lot over a shorter period of time, like during promotions. Even then, it's not as if she does, for example, that Secret high note live. She does the things that don't completely wreck her voice, therefore there hasn't been much of a noticeable regression. I don't think she'll get a lot worse either, her technique isn't absolutely horrible - she'll just stop being able to sing high notes like that.

[Jstarfully]

The legendary Jungah

 

I can just taste the sarcasm in every letter hahaha

 

Seriously though, I'm shocked a soprano could strain that low.

[Jstarfully]

she needs to meet a good vocal trainer that knows whats right and wrong.

starship should stop giving her songs that will strain her voice.

lastly, she should be willing to improve and learn from mistakes. 

 

I think she knows more than some others who strain out high notes. She used to be at SM, remember? Tbh I think she's straining largely because of Starship, and also because she's young and straining out those crazy high notes gets her a lot of praise and admiration from her peers and maybe even her elders

[Jstarfully]

Hey guys, would it be okay if I posted a cover here to get some feedback, please? Mainly to point out my weaknesses so I know what to work on.

 

Dude you're so polite I is shock   but sure, post it! Most of the time someone will answer 

[Jstarfully]

Yeonjung? She was in SM? If she was in SM, it could almost be guaranteed that her technique would be much better than it is now lol.

 

She was in SM, yeah. The practice video where she sings Fate, I've heard that was an evaluation at SM. And I mean, this is the same SM that Wendy got vocal nodes at, predebut. And she had a good teacher. It ain't guaranteed that you'll be amazing just because you go through SM.

[Jstarfully]

I'm not saying that she'll be good just because she's at SM. Well, they do tend to have good teachers there, or at least it is assumed. Probably all of SM's main vocalists are at least Proficient/Decent...with the exception of NCT, for now.

 

And Yeonjung would've most likely been a main vocalist... But if she didn't then she'd probably just be the same lol.

The Fate cover sounds much better than her other performances... I wonder if she regressed.

 

Well she sang it recently at a concert, and the main difference lies in the frequency ranges of the two speaker systems. Plus then the predebut one, she was probably under less vocal stress and had more time to practice compared to the recent concert performance. Idk, go back to pg2529 if you want to hear it for yourself :P

She's the same age as Yeri (I think), so I guess she would've maybe been in RV? I'm guessing either she wasn't picked because of her dancing skills, or when she didn't make the initial line-up, she gave up on debuting under SM and moved company.

[Jstarfully]

 

 

The sarcasm in your intros are my favourite thing about you making these videos 

[Jstarfully]

Hello, I was wondering if Chungha is straining all the high notes throughout the chorus?

 0:55-1:15

 

She strains the high notes after around 1:00, and then again after 1:12 to the end of the chorus. I'm also not sure if Chungha supports at all, despite her being my bae I haven't really actually put much thought into her singing, but upon first impression it sure sounds unsupported.

[Jstarfully]

Only at those time stamps? Because there are better B4s in there for both Sejeong and Yeonjung.

 

But at 2:10, I think Sejeong is pushing.

 

For Yeonjung, it was her usual pushed, whiny kind of B4. Not too bad but could be much better?

 

So yeah, I feel like Chungha's B4 was more relaxed so better. Hope this becomes consistent, if she continues improving, who knows how far she can reach lol.

 

(Disclaimer: I really don't know if what I said was right or wrong. If it's wrong, please correct me and forgive my mistakes XD)

 

Yeonjung was better than Sejeong at the note right at 0:23 (the one where she's wearing a school uniform) imo, it's pretty comfortable-sounding as far as her high notes go, the one after is more pushed. Sejeong is definitely pushing, but for her it sounds like the typical pushed chest voice you get around your break, when you need to start consciously mixing, so that might be why.

 

The Chungha high note is more relaxed, and I think it's because she has a slightly higher vocal break. So yes she's better at that particular note than the other two, but they would probably sing the high notes in her chorus (of her solo, I mean) better.

[Jstarfully]

Oh wait, I just rewatched it. So 0;23 was the one she was wearing the uniform? I thought DanReborn meant the one that popped up exactly after lol. That's why I said there were better B4s lol.

 

I don't think that Sejeong/Yeonjung would sing the higher notes in Chungha's solos better though. I mean, they'd all just really strain the Eb5s so...

 

And what do you mean by higher vocal break? I don't really understand 

 

They would all strain, but Sejeong and Yeonjung are more used to straining so they'd at least not make it sound quite as obvious as Chungha does.

 

This specific vocal break is hard to explain, but it's the area where you transition from the lower part of your middle voice, which for sopranos tends to be around Eb4 to C#5 to then the higher part which is usually C#5 to F#5. It's also called passaggio. Essentially bridging the registers tends to be hard, and before you're completely confident at it, the bottom and top end of the registers sound bad. Either you push from the bottom and try to continue the lower register and... well it just sounds pushed. Or you switch to the top early and it can sound weak or quiet compared to the other notes in that register.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Jstarfully