Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Sarah Oon]

4 hours ago, LinaRinaMina said:

I feel like she's weak to average NGL, I've never heard any great moments from her that would make me place her in average, just...strain. 

Someone in here said she was a Mezzo who supported up till A4 and decently developed lows (I think I brought her up once before) so that should put her at Average, but she doesn't sound like a high one to me.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

14 hours ago, ZRH23 said:

Ooh okay, so she can support too. She seems to be fine till B4, some phrased C5s were fine but needed to be stronger. C#5 and above is where she gets more whinier. Lily's approach here is more solid than the covers Haewon did, but Haewon has better vowels especially on C#5s. Competition for Aespa I see . They both seem like they could be on the higher end of average, around or at least ..but this is just from the few material we have. If Haewon can go more chesty like she did in Speechless, then we'll have something to look forward to. 

The English I think may cause a bit more of the tension due to diction. Otherwise it's pretty much the same from what we know of her. She's going more chesty on the C#5s, it's a bit more pushed but they're fine.

A JYP GG having one of the strongest vocal lines for a generation was not in my 2022 bingo book. How do you think Haewon and Lily compare to Winter and Monday who are considered the top of average for 4th gen?

[Sarah Oon]

4 hours ago, noprinterjustfax said:

Very random, but how good or bad is Avril Lavigne? 

 

I just came around her I'm With You video on Twitter and got curious lmao 

From what I've read Avril has Bb4/B4 so she's actually pretty decent.

[Sarah Oon]

Does Eugene (Former S.E.S.) support? She was the second vocalist in the group after Bada. 

 

She sounds shallow to me. (I linked the segment of her covering speechless)

Edited November 21, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

1 hour ago, Renner said:

She seems to be fatigued in this performance the Bb4’s here mostly carry tension but generally she does fine up to A4/Bb4. She’s still in Average despite the somewhat limited supported range her sense of support is developed enough to warrant her a place in that tier. She has better performances to show like this recent one which is pretty nice ;

Pretty nice and strong mid-range throughout. 1:54 onwards there’s Bb4’s and they mostly carry support, 2:25 just a G#4 but I don’t think the W~A gurlies can pull off something like that still. 4:04 onwards sustained Bb4’s carry support again, 4:34 sustained G#4 to Bb4, 5:52 open Bb4.

She has her issues, sure, but she puts effort and does have the development to pull off relatively stronger/chestier notes up to A4 better than some Averages.

2:08 another performance of Hello and the Bb4’s were mostly fine same as the other Bb4’s in that performance.

It hasn’t been brought up before so I’d like to ask what do y’all think of Sejeong’s recent performance?

2:14 some C5’s the first one could’ve had more freedom but I think she second one is nice, 2:47 Bb4-B4 she could’ve shaped her vowel better here, 3:43 C5 belt.

Let me know what you all think and please correct me if I gave any misinformation.

Speaking of Adele but didn't she need to have 2 vocal surgeries because of bad singing habits/bad technique? So a vocalist can still have a developed sense of support even though they possess some questionable or unhealthy singing habits?

[Sarah Oon]

25 minutes ago, Rarities said:

Are Lily M and Haewon the best JYP GG vocals? Would you guys say they're better than Winter and Ning Ning as well? 

Based off the material so far no. Haewon and Lily M are high average. YeEun and Sunye from wonder girls were A-AA and AA respectively iirc. But in comparison to Miss A, TWICE and Itzy, both of them are stronger than the mains in those groups by quite a large margin.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

Weren't Winter's sustained and phrased C5's in next level and savage supported? 

[Sarah Oon]

So JYPn and Aespa are probably the top vocal groups so far for girls groups in 4th gen. Based off the discussion on this thread it goes

 

Ning Ning> Lily M>Haewon/Winter>Karina>= Jinni (she was discussed to potentially be a low average) >Giselle (argued to be near the top of weak)>Sullyoon>The rest

 

Haewon and Winter both sound around the same level to me. Winter lacks material, but based off what we heard, her mid range seems more cleaner/rounder than Haewon(Winter sounds better in the C5/C#5 region and her D5 is decent for her level too),but Haewon is developed nicely as well to B4 I believe? Both rely on stylistics quirks so it's hard to judge. Lily sounds stronger than both with her nice and round mix.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:48 PM, Sarah Oon said:

Does Eugene (Former S.E.S.) support? She was the second vocalist in the group after Bada. 

 

She sounds shallow to me. (I linked the segment of her covering speechless)

I hate to bump but I am curious about Ms. Eugene. She sounds like a weaker and shallower Nayeon. I think some shallow support might be going on, but not sure. @ZRH23

Edited December 8, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

10 hours ago, spicyssamu said:

What are we thinking about IVEs vocals? We already know Yujin is shallow and nasal, but what about the rest?

Wonyoung is sounding better honestly even if she downgraded her dance

Pretty sure Liz is the only that can support her voice. She's the only one in the group that tries to sing with proper engagement. The difference between the way she sings and the others who have that cutesy and squeaky idol voice (though I've read Gaeul places her voice better than Leeseo, Wonyoung, and Rei) is pretty clear.

 Ironically, all of the vocally challenging parts in the two songs they released went to Yujin. There isn't much material right now, but Liz sounds light but relatively clean? But so far, she doesn't sound average at all to me. IVE vocal abilities are kinda surprising since Starship is sorta known for their strong main vocals.

 

 

[Sarah Oon]

It's quite surprising. All of the companies known for their strong vocals historical are debuting mid/meh vocal lines in 4th gen. Meanwhile, JYP who is known for having mid-vocal lines is going to debut a group that might be in contentions for one of the strongest vocal lines of 4th gen, and overall their strongest vocal group since wonder girls. No one anticipated this for 2021.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

Do you guys remember the era when a couple of infamous YouTubers had an entire community convinced that NingNing starts straining at A4 and that Winter's ability to support was "questionable" and kept comparing her to Rose and Lia? 

 

dark times

[Sarah Oon]

12 hours ago, Shinki said:

 

G5? That didn't sound like a G5 but again i'm not the best with pitches

Those F5's and G5's weren't that bad for Winter level. I also thought her C5 was pretty good too? I believe she had a few phrased, but supported C5's from previous eras. It's interesting how Winter got all of Bada's climatic/vocally challenging bits over ningning when nining sounds similar to Bada.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

New Liz (IVE's main vocal) singing video.

She reminds me of Joy and Lia, but she's not as nasally. She was light, heady, and somewhat clean. But her mid-range sounds underwhelming, nor she's as developed with her chest coordination as I thought. Anytime the song required some chest depth, she opted for going light and heady. I don't think she supports consistently, but she's not that far off.

[Sarah Oon]

26 minutes ago, wintersparkIes said:

hello sorta new here but what do you guys think of olivia rodrigo's agility she uses it a few times in the video they sound okay to me probably the lightest i have ever heard her sound 

Adding on to this, but I've read that Olivia has Bb4/B4. Is she a low average? She doesn't sound like a high one to me.

[Sarah Oon]

18 minutes ago, ZRH23 said:

Too little material from Chaehyun still. Thing is the most we heard from her were some clips in her midrange in that IU cover they did during the reality show, and some recordings she did where she basically just whispered sing her way through most of the songs. 

Despite that, she's also not shown anything much different regardless of whether she's singing in a louder or quieter setting. Jihyo has stuck tendencies but still relatively stronger sound throughout her midrange and can occasionally belt it out more, while Chaehyun is stuck but lacking in projection too. But Chaehyun does have some nicer moments and she hasn't sung that much yet so we'll still have to see.

Suhyun is different in the way that her grasp on support is more solid and clean than all the rest below here. I haven't really heard any shallow moments from her or drops in support in the middle of phrases, it's pretty established in a certain range. She's usually not soft either. Suhyun sings quite light, but it's not the same as soft. And when she does sing soft, the development in her voice still sticks out. 

 

She definitely struggles with going for louder sounds and that's the main thing keeping her from anything further, but even then, she's doing better than most of the averages when she's out of her comfort zone. Some nasality due to diction, but she's not nearly as stuck or swallowed as most As are. The support is also present consistently, and there's rarely any drop in quality. 

Suhyun can maintain that clean and smooth sound throughout her singing, even out of her usual range, without any other issues hindering it aside from lack of further development . She's light but it's a relatively full sound that she's singing with. Tbh, not a lot of Average vocalists are consistent and established in their approaches, some of the A-AA still do struggle with that. Suhyun is my bare minimum benchmark on how a more reliable vocalist would sound like. 

 

Quick question, but since Suhyun was brought up. Is she still the top/highest in average? She's been the bench mark for the top of average for years now. But I've seen quite a few people say that Winter, Haewon, Lily and Monday are stronger than her, but as of now, all of those girls are High Average as well unless the goal posts for the tiers shifted a bit with 4th gen.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

2 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

is giselle weak to average?

I think putting her High Weak is the safest estimate so far. Miyeon is the highest in the weak tier, but Giselle doesn't seem like she has as many issues as she does. Out of all the Aespa girls, she's the one with the least amount of material since she rarely sings at all. Giselle seems to handle G4's and A4's fine. The sustained ones in Dreams Come True sounded nice. Someone in the thread before pointed out she had a few phrased Bb4's in the Savage b-sides that sounded nice for her level.

[Sarah Oon]

SM saw we had no stand out vocalist for 4th gen and just decided to re-debut Wendy and Taeyeon to pick up the slack. 

[Sarah Oon]

Does anyone know how good yoo young jin is? He's hailed as a vocal master in Korea, but he seems more style, quirks than the actual vocal foundation, in my personal opinion. Way too much chest pulling and growls for me.

 

 

 

 

[Sarah Oon]

1 hour ago, seulgisbae said:

Finally, i’ve been saying it for a while that Winter > Seulgi is just not too correct.
 

The lows are better & the mid range is stronger. Even with Seulgi’s tongue tension issues she still carries strong support throughout most of her mid range(C5 i’d say is the edge)

Eh, I agree with the early discourse that it's too early to be placing the new average girls yet in retrospective to established vocalists due to lack of material. But Winter is still high average for me, compared to Seulgi, who I still think is mid-average. Seulgi issues with her mix are very severe and need to be addressed if she ever hopes of improving instead of remaining stagnant. Her nasality thins out her voice and impacts the quality of her support, tongue tension impacts her belting/upper range thinning it out, and she's way too tight and tense sometimes. Her issues start as early as A4 I believe. 

Of course she has her moments where her issues do not hold her back and she has quite a handful of B4's and C5's. This cover has some pretty nice B4's in it. Overall, I believe seulgi issues are too severe for high average land.

 

Winter has a very nice, bright, and forward placement in her mix until B4. She also had a few phrased supported C5's in Black Mamba, Next Level, Savage, and Dreams Come True that sounded nice. I think her mix is quite nice for her level until D5. She has much better placement and is capable of rounding out her vowels and notes better than Seulgi IMO and most of the mid-average girls.

 

 

 

Again, Winter severely lacks material, but I think a lot of her issues are more related to stylistic choices and quirks due to being trained by YYJ. Her lows don't even sound that bad, she just opts for a more airy and light approach for stylistic reasoning. I would love for her to showcase a live performance of a vocally challenging song instead of the light and heady IU songs she always picks lol.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

1 hour ago, Renner said:

Seulgi has probably got to be one of the most overlooked vocalists all this time people were too busy focusing on her stuck moments and preaching that Jeongyeon has a stronger mix. 

Just watched this compilation again and... she can handle C5’s more frequently than I thought lol.

I remember people on youtube kept reiterating that Jeongyeon was on the same level as Seulgi and Jihyo  Jeongyeon still sounds shallow and inconsistent with her support to me. I'm more inclined to put her as W-A instead of Low Average like most of Youtube land does.

[Sarah Oon]

50 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

I'm not sure your perspective on who's high and who's mid is that accurate....who do you think is higher above winter and who's below her ? Also you're giving that C5 card a bit too easy I have never thought she has support on any of her C5s .

What u mean by her lows aren't that bad ? In which range ? 

Speaking in terms of her 3rd and 4th gen contemporaries. Below her are the low and mid-average girlies like Seulgi, Jihyo, Goeun, Jiwon, Denise, Yuri, etc. Winter support in her midrange seems cleaner and she can round out her sound better than they can until the B4 range. I don't think she's at the TOP of average. Monday, Dawon, Suhyun, and a few others handle notes above B4 with better coordination and a stronger belting range . But I still think she's a high average nevertheless.

As for her lows, we really only have the savage prechrous to go off for in terms of her making an attempt down in that range to have any engagement or connection. Before it was all airy, but quite a few people say her lows have potential now. 

 

It seems she's able to keep tonality and okay placement until F#3. Those notes aren't supported obviously, but they sound okay. I do think giving her lows A3/bb3 is a safe estimate for now until more material arises, but I don't think her lows are as weak and airy as proclaimed. There is more of a stylistic choice.
 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

Not Eugene above Karina 

[Sarah Oon]

3 hours ago, aeridreamin said:

Jihyo is getting tight low as G#4 right? So, with more materials, can we say Haewon is better than her?

Haewon and Lily are both already estimated to be stronger than Jihyo (both leaning towards high average). Both of them have strong and clean mid ranges and don't suffer from the "stuck" sound that Jihyo deals with.

 

Jihyo is too nasally nowadays and lacks that full and "round" sound for a lack of a better words.

Haewon and Lily both seem like they have a better handle of C5/C#5 than Jihyo ever did.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

On 1/25/2022 at 7:19 AM, ZRH23 said:

I'd say there's support, it was pretty easy for her. But the thing about Karina is.. Um, she's just kinda winging it when she sings lmao. It's more like she's emulating certain sounds rather than having a concious effort at maintaining technique, if that makes sense.

 

 

This is pretty interesting. I hope you elaborate more. So you believe Karina kinda "lucks" into supporting when she sings, and when she sings she's not focusing on technique and engaging with support, it just happens? Pretty interesting since Karina seems like she's more developed than the W-A girls and some of the low averages (seems like she has A4/Bb4, not shallow/inconsistent support, and decent lows relative to her level). I would expect those tendencies from the lower tiers. Do you think she might be more underdeveloped than we thought? Stylistic choices? Or does she just lack the material and need a vocal performance where she's shown putting effort?

Edited January 27, 2022 by Sarah Oon