Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[lepidoptery]

I hear nothing out of the ordinary for her as a Japanese vocalist. Sings with a lot of throatiness and nasality, it's not truly supported singing.

Yeah, this live did not seem as impressive as in studio... but I don't know if that's because of studio tweaks or just this particular performance, or if the performance itself is an issue (she's in movement, she has to sing over the band, she's hyping the crowd, whatever).  Like, I wouldn't know if Su-Metal has any performances where she just stands and sings.

[lepidoptery]

Did anybody else know the adlibs in T-Ara's Lies were all Davichi's Lee Haeri?

I thought ppl knew that ages ago... how did you miss it? XD;;

 

EDIT: I think it became very publicly known in August 2015 (in SK) but I thought it was known before that, just like it was known that Hyuna didn't really have a better C5 than a lot of other singers because that was Yuji's C5.  Like, back in the day the casual ranking was probably that Eunjung was maybe a better singer than Soyeon because she had Haeri's high notes in her corner, but when people actually got around to looking into it they figured out what was going on.

Edited March 29, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

LMAOO omg I'm in a rush so I skimmed over this for now, I saw "strongest vocalist" and was like "aight I'll guess Above Average"

 

Scrolled down to see "Weak" yikes

I saw under an octave of support, then got to the first bullet point under weaknesses, "sings with a raised larynx for most of his range" and was like DOOM. XD

[lepidoptery]

Looking at the weakness list for the SS501 dude, I wanted to do a concept check....

 

Raised larynx is one thing that results in strain.  It can be due to lack of breath support.  It is emblematic of a singer trying to hit notes higher than they are comfortable with, or they perceive the effect of raising their larynx to be more "powerful" than remaining neutral and favor it.  Lowered larynx is another thing that results in strain.  It is emblematic of a singer trying to hit notes lower than they are comfortable with, or because they are faking a large sound and prefer the effect.  If your larynx is not neutral (either raised or lowered? OP is only explicit about lowered larynx) you will (usually?) be throaty.

[lepidoptery]

Throatiness comes from pushing the sound out with the throat, a throaty sound may be caused by a high larynx but throatiness can happen just by having a lot of throat tension. Either way yes, you're right. 

I'm wondering how someone can have isolated throat tension... well, isolated from the larynx, anyway.  Like... if you wake up stiff or something and just sing that way? >.>;;

[lepidoptery]

No proper classical teacher will teach the passaggi for tenors at those points. The passaggi for tenors is at C#4/F#4 and C4/F4. Different types of tenors can share the same passagi. If a classical tenor does not know this then it is almost impossible for them to become a good classical singer, which is quite evident in how poorly all the most famous operatic tenors are singing today.

It didn't seem too likely to me that there was really such precision in all those supposed types of tenors (in particular), or rather, that the opera roles for them really specified such minute (but distinct?) differences in where they were intended to mix.  So what are the intended passagi for the other voice types, generally?

 

Actually, while there are probably some biological differences (or trends of differences) between those of different voice types, isn't the matter of passagi kind of a matter of comfort and cultural preference?  People with a certain level of training can extend their mixes, so in opera isn't it a matter of "composers think a note this high should be done in head voice"?

[lepidoptery]

http://www.singwise.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?section=articles&doc=DeterminingVocalFach&page=2

This is exactly one of the sources C.Y. said was basically full of shit, you realize... it seems to be referencing the same sources as the wiki.

 

The baritone ones are at Bb3/Eb4 and B3/E4. Bass-baritone A3/D4, I don't know the other ones for sure. The female ones are complicated, I can't remember those either, especially since classical women are singing in head voice so that's a different story. I'm not sure what you mean in the last two questions. Composers wrote their music knowing what fully developed voices were able to do and what they sounded like, and in order to be fully developed in the first place, your technique had to be 100% precise.

This feels like another thing I suspected about fach and technique... ie. the best way to be completely certain about someone's fach is if they have and utilize optimal technique, which for 99% of the singers in kpop (and elsewhere) is not going to be the case.  Not that people can't tell for those who have less than optimal technique, but, like, to be totally sure....  Oh well.  I suppose in non-classical music it's all academic anyway.

[lepidoptery]

DID YOU SEE THE WAY SHE STACCATOED HER VIBRATO UP TO G#10? HER MESSA DI VOCE HAD SO MUCH POCO A POCO AND HER FALSETTO WAS SO GLISSANDO. 

If you just used spanish, would any of the monolinguals even notice?

[lepidoptery]

wouldnt it be Italian, not Spanish?

Yes, but (although I know we're not all Americans here, much less english monolingual Americans, much less english monolingual Americans with zero exposure to Spanish and Italian if only because of delicious foodz) I feel like there's a subset of the population who wouldn't be able to discern the difference anyway.

[lepidoptery]

Matheus and I recently got into an arguement about the amount of work each of us do for the blog and thread and because he feels if I were to leave the thread (not the blog, because we're shutting that down) there would be absolutely no difference in productivity; I am leaving. I feel it's for the best because I'm busy and I don't really enjoy this anymore, so this is my farewell to you guys. It's been fun and I hope you guys still continue to grow as musicians,vocalist, and improving your ear to technique.

Yours truly,
VT Evil Queen

... it is 4/1 so I'll wait. :\

[lepidoptery]

April Fools, I can't leave yet my contract isn't up yet

A bit before you tried it, I was actually thinking you should have waited till 4/1 to post that girl you claimed was resonant forever... but that might have been too obvious.

 

The really obvious tell to me was that the blog was going to get shut down... I didn't see why that would happen even if one of you left, especially if it were just you and matt fighting.

[lepidoptery]

omg did not expect that voice lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/REALmrremoved/status/707290142776672256[/tweet]

I wondered if this twitter were related to the account behind this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPnLfDIw7O0

 

but, uh, I can't recognize their voices that well.

[lepidoptery]

because of the industry's bias, people like high males who can belt high and sound high and everything high in general is nice for them, it's slightly unfortunate but it is the industry's bias overall, I believe

But if he can hit the notes, then he can hit the notes, it doesn't matter what he actually is.  Whereas if he were actually a tenor and couldn't hit the notes... he'd be a shitty tenor as opposed to a mediocre baritone or something like that.  :imstupid:

[lepidoptery]

I've always wondered... what is this?  Was it supposed to be like this?  Or was it a genuine fail?

[lepidoptery]

This actually has nothing to do with anything but I searched the VT for a particular video and happened to run across this exchange....

 

apparently talking to girls insinuating they're on their period is insensitive so I mean lol if u r comfortable with it lol no im not idk maybe lol 

I don't know what kind of girl gets pissed about talking about their periods lol

You realize it's not the menstruation that's the problem, it's the implication that the girl is being unreasonable but the other party will graciously excuse them if it turns out to be some hormonal thing out of their control~

 

(Well, I guess some girls just don't like talking about them either, but.)

[lepidoptery]

OMG WHY ARE YOU BRINGING THIS UP LOL

I couldn't stand the idea of you two languishing in ignorance, forever mystified by the ways of the world!!!!

[lepidoptery]

 

Dan here's the answer to what your voice type is, it's perfect for pop singers

 

https://jordaneldredge.com/projects/fach-generator/

"light helden mezzo with a lower extension"... it kind of sounds like someone trying to offload a house.

[lepidoptery]

2. Can there be "holes" in your supported range. I mean, you are able to support on one part of your range, then you strain and then you support again. I'm asking this question because I saw on Taeyeon's analysis that in her mixed register she becomes strained above D5 but her supported head voice is up to F5/F#5. this leads to my next question.

lol, this question reminded me of this....

 

Hey lemme support Eb3's E3's, F3's and shit... Support my head voice up until like E6, F6 and F#6 but be A FUCKING MESS ON MY MIX. Have fucking resonance up until D5 then kinda half support Eb5's, yell E5's then again half support F5's and then be a fucking mess above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qRL2ebzWYw

Ladies and Gentlemen. Lena Park.

LOL there's a hole in the middle of her range hahahah

 

EDIT: wow, I knew you'd referred to being kind of put off analyzing certain vocalists because their status in SK doesn't correspond to their technical abilities, but I hadn't realized your korean was good enough to argue with pressed korean fans about this sort of thing. XD  (I puttered by Lena Park's analysis for a refresher on what I was going to hear... I thought you had been arguing with them in english or something.)

Edited April 21, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

Literally how can people be pressed about being rated Great smh and I'm here praying that my Weak favs can one day reach Average

If I understand this correctly, she's more highly revered than Sohyang but her rating is lower, so it's a big problem. XD

[lepidoptery]

This is not like VT Evil Queen's tests but here is a bonus question for those who haven't started the Lim Junghee question yet.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oWBN4lX2sk

 

Tell me what's wrong with the first guy singing, his name is Heejun. Just quote me, no need for a PM. 

[spoiler]The thing wrong is that the part is too low for him!  :dave:

 

... I've never used this emoticon before, what the hell is a dave....

 

He seems to be swallowing things a bit, maybe lowered larynx to try to make it sound fuller?  The C#3s in the first line didn't have much tone, flop boy.  Is the "a" in "amu ildo" vocal fry?  ... isn't that just F#3, he didn't creak his first note so I guess it was stylistic "choice".  I mean, I assume this all means a lack of support and breathing technique but that's kind of a universal answer and not really insightful.

 

EDIT: the second guy is struggling too but in a different way; comparatively, he seems to be trying to bring things forward, and at least he flops out on A#2.[/spoiler]

Edited April 29, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

I mean he does have support and controls his pitch, but his placement isn’t so good. His runs aren’t always that precise. I enjoy his singing, but he doesn’t challenge himself enough. He might have C3 ~ D4 but he really doesn’t try hard enough to project without being slightly airy and “sexy”. He seems like he could be a baritone. 3:11 in Love, F4 very small sound. It’s really frustrating how easily drowned out by Hyorin he is because not only is this slightly low, he is basically not trying. I’ll go with baritone for now."

Do you still think he's a baritone?

 

A baritone with C3-D4... it wouldn't be too far off a supported range from Youngjae's, so if we did him the favor of assuming inconsistency in support in that range is solely due to stylistic choices, then he would probably be average?  Hm... "unable to execute runs properly in any speed" in Youngjae's analysis sounds a bit final, so I guess Jooyoung has that over him, but that doesn't seem like it would be enough to bump him up much.  (Smoothness in transitioning to falsetto too, maybe?)

 

EDIT: hm, your specific references don't actually correspond to any of these 3 videos, right?  Just checking....

Edited May 1, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

A random thought that came to mind... is there a tendency for guys with headier mixes to attain head voice (as in, to not only have a falsetto) more successfully than those with chestier mixes?  Or does there seem to be no correlation?  Or you can't say from what you've observed?

 

EDIT: I guess there's no reason this question can't apply to girls as well, in spite of differences between male and female head voices....

Edited May 1, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

Does anybody have examples of lead vocalists in idol groups who have better techniques compared to the main vocalists but still get shafted in terms of lines? The only example I can think of is Bom/Minzy.

I'd say Daesung even though ppl consider him a main vocalist; he definitely seems to have been getting shafted in terms of lines for a while.  OTOH, I've heard some very rough performances from him more recently, so... that could be part of the reason aside from just favoritism for Taeyang's voice.

 

EDIT: to a certain extent in certain songs, maybe T-ara?  I was thinking about it with Day By Day.  Soyeon just doesn't seem to have many lines in there especially compared to Eunjung (and with Areum out as well, Hyomin, kind of).  And Soyeon almost never does the ad libs.  I dunno if Eunjung/Hyomin might be considered main vocalists anyway, though--I mean, if they weren't also the usual rappers, by the amount of lines they get you'd think they would be.

 

EDIT2: if the cclyrics site I'm consulting can be trusted, RolyPoly and Lies (both ballad and dance versions) are examples of this.  Ditto Hue, Keep on Walking, Knockin' on my heart, Musica Musica (a j-release?), etc etc.

 

EDIT3: er, T-ara is not quite the same situation... the main vocal has better technique, but does get shafted in favor of lead vocalists.

Edited May 1, 2016 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

I don't know. It didn't work for me either. Thank god you put that quote. As I was able to google it.

 

See if this works:

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/101525282.html

Wow OP what a informative post. I'm currently taking VOX lessons and I love it so far. My voice teacher said I'm an Alto which is cool I guess lol.

 

^someone tell this person (on the first page of comments) to get a new voice teacher, lol.  (I've forgotten my lj login and iirc I'm not an ontd member anyway, if they still have that restriction on comments....)

[lepidoptery]

her unpopular opinon was that jimin has the best technique out of bts and the V just screams high notes.   :._.:  :._.:  :._.:

V... has high notes?