Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Celest]

One of my favorite Asian artists of all time.  The tone of Jac's voice just resonates with me and I love her stage presence and sassiness off-stage.  What do you guys think of her? 

 

 

 

Start at 4:41

 

 

Start at 1:45 or from the beginning

 

 

Start at 2:10 

Edited April 20, 2017 by NatsuLian

[C.Y.]

Maybe we could him a Taeyang tenor

 

 

Or revive the phrase baritenor

anything but baritenor omg, such a lazy excuse of a "voice type" lmao. basically means "i can't tell so it's totally something about your voice and not my ears"

 

Well I guess now that we are even, we could it call it quits and just be nice and sweet to other another? lol I agree with you that just because he doesn't sound like even my usual concept of a baritone, it doesn't mean he can't be one either...I just could not hear it. Oh sure Taeyang is not technically that bad, but he's not a good example of vocal technique. The thing is Taeyang's voice type changing is a bit of a big deal. JYP doesn't matter to me, if he's a tenor or baritone he has no supported range, so nothing would change within his analysis but Taeyang being a baritone would really alter his analysis. Well some people have a lot of theoretical knowledge but don't have good ears, that's a sad reality we face with singing. I mean JK Kim Dongwook, I knew he was a baritone but Hwanhee I just always doubted it because of how high he constantly sang, but hearing him speak was like a dead giveaway baritone for me.

 

You're making some valid points and even though I'm still skeptical, I may be able to hear it. I mean Hyunsik is a baritone, I have no doubt but he can mix really high quite constantly. Did you just shade Daesung? lol

 

 

 

 

@2:57 Taeyang struggles a lot to mix above G4, his A4's and B4's are really tight but I always just attributed that to his lack of technique, and considering how tenors could mix around E4/F4, I wasn't sure what to think. @1:22 even his D4's have enough of a degree of mixing that make me be unsure but see how it could be one or the other. The thing is that if Taeyang does turn out to be a baritone, I'll have to analyze him again. Cause he has enough of a degree of support that it would alter his rating even if only by half a rating. Or at least it would have in 2011. Either way, I need to ponder on this. 1:37 his F4's don't strike me as straight up baritone in the Beyonce cover though...ugh he is really making me unsure. 

thing is I'm not part of the blog, I don't personally care what you decide to do with him there lol. I'm just giving my argument since i'm part of this thread.

 

like I said there are many, many more pop baritones than just Taeyang that are called tenors that no one would question, but seeing as how controversial this is already getting and how much effort it requires to convince anyone, I can't really bother talking about anyone else. Another thing is, some of the baritones you think are lightest of the lightest baritones are in fact not. There's a difference between simply sounding darker and actually being heavier at the same time. You can sound very bright and not actually be the lightest baritone or tenor at all.

 

this is a classical singer before training and after. just take a guess at his voice type and then you'll hear it at the end

https://soundcloud.com/ceeyc/test2

 

now that is a

spinto tenor

Do guys like Key really sound that "light" anymore when you compare that to another person singing light? They aren't really. But I can clearly hear the difference in passaggi, the E4s and the F#4 in the beginning. This guy is a contemporary singer now as well, he quit being a classical singer. As I've said many times, it's a myth that there are "light" baritones, ANYONE can be light and that is why everyone does appear light in this thread.

 

the problem with me trying to prove the acoustic switch in his passaggi is that this is not that easy to "prove". Technically I AM showing exactly where it is and the sound is all there, no matter what note Taeyang does, but anyone can just listen to it and deny it because it is not obvious at all. The acoustic switch is extremely subtle. It's not always blatantly obvious and it certainly does not sound exactly the same across all singers because contemporary singers do not all have the exact same vowel shapes or amount of chest voice in their mix. I've been saying a lot of things that might seem outlandish recently, such as how some of the best female singers were in fact using more lengthened vocal tracts/depth/pharyngeal space to sing, noticeably different than even the best male singers. Now that might be an unfamiliar thing to talk about but at the end of the day, that is very easy to prove. It is all very clear in the video examples that this is what went on, Whitney did not magically sing next to Pavarotti while not understanding the technique behind "chiaroscuro", or in other words the balancing between depth and chest voice/clarity, yet somehow retaining a lot of characteristics in her contemporary voice. I clearly did not retain any characteristics of my classical voice in my imitation of JYP's singing, because I was not singing anywhere near that. Neither does the spinto tenor, or Lara Fabian demonstrating her very obvious thin mix voice which a lot of men sing similar to. Many other people might not even believe me when I say THAT stuff, despite the clear evidence, and so it just seems impossibly difficult for me to prove the passaggi/acoustic switch in the voice since any example I show is just not gonna appear as obvious as that.

 

now of course you're being open minded to it, but I'm just saying I wish there was an easier way for me to prove this but there is not. It is 10x more subtle than trying to prove strain in pop singers. I just think it would be better in the end for the sake of people who are learning about vocals who might also be singers themselves, to realize there are more voice types out there than they think. I think people generally say things that are untrue like there being no pop baritones or no lower sub-types. They're ALL over the place. It's just that people aren't distinguishing them correctly because to develop the ear for it requires experience of hearing different voice types sing in different ways from neutral to proper low larynx technique, or even high. I have some of this but not anywhere near the amount of true experts, but my ear has been 100% re-wired since. The teacher of the teacher of my teacher is the one that taught that spinto tenor, and a long time ago I posted an old demonstration from decades ago of a baritone singing in neutral (he was a famous contemporary singer back in his time) and then in his classical voice. That guy who taught him was the teacher of the teacher of the teacher of my teacher LMAO, they've been doing this forever. And obviously I have experience of what I myself sound like from high larynx to depressed and everything in between.

 

Baritones especially like to whine about there being no baritones and whatever in contemporary, I just think it discourages them if the information out there seems to be against them. I personally had a hard time singing growing up because of that, I just constantly thought I was a bass-baritone when I couldn't sing above C4 and that there was nothing I could do about it. Some years back I even quit singing for an entire 2 years because I was too discouraged from practicing anymore, I felt it was just getting nowhere. I'm just saying if there are any baritone singers here, or even for the tenors, yo gurlfran or boifran's favorite singer might be a baritone, so just sing and don't be discouraged lol. That goes for all the "altos" out there as well LOL.

Edited April 20, 2017 by C.Y.

[칼릴�]

I am not even a part of this conversation and I am exhausted.

[C.Y.]

I am not even a part of this conversation and I am exhausted.

no one is asking you to read any of it

[칼릴�]

no one is asking you to read any of it

I am well aware, and I am not. It's just it's a lot to scroll through on my phone lol.

[Clay]

 

 

omg that souncloud audio 

[AhMin]

anything but baritenor omg, such a lazy excuse of a "voice type" lmao. basically means "i can't tell so it's totally something about your voice and not my ears"

 

thing is I'm not part of the blog, I don't personally care what you decide to do with him there lol. I'm just giving my argument since i'm part of this thread.

 

like I said there are many, many more pop baritones than just Taeyang that are called tenors that no one would question, but seeing as how controversial this is already getting and how much effort it requires to convince anyone, I can't really bother talking about anyone else. Another thing is, some of the baritones you think are lightest of the lightest baritones are in fact not. There's a difference between simply sounding darker and actually being heavier at the same time. You can sound very bright and not actually be the lightest baritone or tenor at all.

 

this is a classical singer before training and after. just take a guess at his voice type and then you'll hear it at the end

https://soundcloud.com/ceeyc/test2

 

now that is a

spinto tenor

Do guys like Key really sound that "light" anymore when you compare that to another person singing light? They aren't really. But I can clearly hear the difference in passaggi, the E4s and the F#4 in the beginning. This guy is a contemporary singer now as well, he quit being a classical singer. As I've said many times, it's a myth that there are "light" baritones, ANYONE can be light and that is why everyone does appear light in this thread.

 

the problem with me trying to prove the acoustic switch in his passaggi is that this is not that easy to "prove". Technically I AM showing exactly where it is and the sound is all there, no matter what note Taeyang does, but anyone can just listen to it and deny it because it is not obvious at all. The acoustic switch is extremely subtle. It's not always blatantly obvious and it certainly does not sound exactly the same across all singers because contemporary singers do not all have the exact same vowel shapes or amount of chest voice in their mix. I've been saying a lot of things that might seem outlandish recently, such as how some of the best female singers were in fact using more lengthened vocal tracts/depth/pharyngeal space to sing, noticeably different than even the best male singers. Now that might be an unfamiliar thing to talk about but at the end of the day, that is very easy to prove. It is all very clear in the video examples that this is what went on, Whitney did not magically sing next to Pavarotti while not understanding the technique behind "chiaroscuro", or in other words the balancing between depth and chest voice/clarity, yet somehow retaining a lot of characteristics in her contemporary voice. I clearly did not retain any characteristics of my classical voice in my imitation of JYP's singing, because I was not singing anywhere near that. Neither does the spinto tenor, or Lara Fabian demonstrating her very obvious thin mix voice which a lot of men sing similar to. Many other people might not even believe me when I say THAT stuff, despite the clear evidence, and so it just seems impossibly difficult for me to prove the passaggi/acoustic switch in the voice since any example I show is just not gonna appear as obvious as that.

 

now of course you're being open minded to it, but I'm just saying I wish there was an easier way for me to prove this but there is not. It is 10x more subtle than trying to prove strain in pop singers. I just think it would be better in the end for the sake of people who are learning about vocals who might also be singers themselves, to realize there are more voice types out there than they think. I think people generally say things that are untrue like there being no pop baritones or no lower sub-types. They're ALL over the place. It's just that people aren't distinguishing them correctly because to develop the ear for it requires experience of hearing different voice types sing in different ways from neutral to proper low larynx technique, or even high. I have some of this but not anywhere near the amount of true experts, but my ear has been 100% re-wired since. The teacher of the teacher of my teacher is the one that taught that spinto tenor, and a long time ago I posted an old demonstration from decades ago of a baritone singing in neutral (he was a famous contemporary singer back in his time) and then in his classical voice. That guy who taught him was the teacher of the teacher of the teacher of my teacher LMAO, they've been doing this forever. And obviously I have experience of what I myself sound like from high larynx to depressed and everything in between.

 

Baritones especially like to whine about there being no baritones and whatever in contemporary, I just think it discourages them if the information out there seems to be against them. I personally had a hard time singing growing up because of that, I just constantly thought I was a bass-baritone when I couldn't sing above C4 and that there was nothing I could do about it. Some years back I even quit singing for an entire 2 years because I was too discouraged from practicing anymore, I felt it was just getting nowhere. I'm just saying if there are any baritone singers here, or even for the tenors, yo gurlfran or boifran's favorite singer might be a baritone, so just sing and don't be discouraged lol. That goes for all the "altos" out there as well LOL.

That audio was the same person? Huh wow interesting. You know you can mention other people you think are baritones, as long as they weren't analyzed. lol If they were, maybe not right now. Teacher..of the teacher..of the teacher..lol This was very long but all I really have to say is I'll keep pondering on this and I'll ask my instructor as well and voice types has always been the one I wasn't taught much and one of my weaknesses so I know there's a lot for me to learn when identifying sub-types for sure. "Altos" oh boy. lol

[Signal Zoo]

Click here to view the Tweet

 

How do you guys think about their vocals?

Edited April 20, 2017 by Hinata Chan

[C.Y.]

I am well aware, and I am not. It's just it's a lot to scroll through on my phone lol.

well that's too bad, if you tried to understand my perspective then maybe you yourself wouldn't be confused about whether you are baritone or tenor

 

That audio was the same person? Huh wow interesting. You know you can mention other people you think are baritones, as long as they weren't analyzed. lol If they were, maybe not right now. Teacher..of the teacher..of the teacher..lol This was very long but all I really have to say is I'll keep pondering on this and I'll ask my instructor as well and voice types has always been the one I wasn't taught much and one of my weaknesses so I know there's a lot for me to learn when identifying sub-types for sure. "Altos" oh boy. lol

i'll take that as a no LOL. they were definitely analyzed af lol so I'm not gonna get into it, I don't think I ever want to anyway.

[abra]

Click here to view the Tweet

 

How do you guys think about their vocals?

Super Junior truly has the best songs in SM, I'd forgotten about this one

Edited April 20, 2017 by abra

[AhMin]

well that's too bad, if you tried to understand my perspective then maybe you yourself wouldn't be confused about whether you are baritone or tenor

 

i'll take that as a no LOL. they were definitely analyzed af lol so I'm not gonna get into it, I don't think I ever want to anyway.

Analyzed af.. as fuck? ._. How many are they, if I may ask? Actually you can say it because the only ones that seem questionable to me seem to be nearby the weak rating. Out of the higher rated vocalists, I honestly can't even imagine. So yeah I am curious. Cause I've questioned some of them while I was analyzing them, like if you say Jung Yonghwa, Sungmin and Jay Park.. I could see it, cause I thought it when analyzing them. (Considering they got pity supported ranges in their mixed voices, it wouldn't alter their ratings much) Do you have the same feeling about the mezzos and sopranos? Edited April 20, 2017 by AhMin

[칼릴�]

 

 

well that's too bad, if you tried to understand my perspective then maybe you yourself wouldn't be confused about whether you are baritone or tenor

You just told me that nobody asked me to read the discussion, yet you are trying to shame me for not reading it? Okay... Well anyway, my situation is fairly different than Taeyang's considering I am like 10 years younger than him. My voice is young and is still well within the developmental and growth stages. That being said, upon further growth and developing of my technique I am fairly sure I am a tenor. Which is what i have been told all along by voice teachers I just didn't want to believe them. So yeah.

[galhadineas]

btw, do you guys think Roa (Minkyung) can support? 

 

she sings at 0:55 and 1:36

 

^

the audio is better here, the time stamps are the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBf96c-0CrE

 

there was a random G#6 from the blonde girl lol 

Edited April 21, 2017 by DanReborn

[Secre]

I suggest........... we bring back baritenor.

[Signal Zoo]

Click here to view the Tweet

How do you guys think about their vocals?

[yuksibcho]

Hi guys, may I ask about Day6's vocals in this How Can I Say performance? Is Jae the best vocalist in the group? Sungjin sounds like he's struggling in his part. Thanks in advance!! 

 

[C.Y.]

Analyzed af.. as fuck? ._. How many are they, if I may ask? Actually you can say it because the only ones that seem questionable to me seem to be nearby the weak rating. Out of the higher rated vocalists, I honestly can't even imagine. So yeah I am curious. Cause I've questioned some of them while I was analyzing them, like if you say Jung Yonghwa, Sungmin and Jay Park.. I could see it, cause I thought it when analyzing them. (Considering they got pity supported ranges in their mixed voices, it wouldn't alter their ratings much) Do you have the same feeling about the mezzos and sopranos?

my ears aren't well trained enough to do it with female voices, I don't think. Well I have not tried at all anyway, but it's not something I would feel confident at all with. Thing is sopranos are more common than mezzos, but baritones are more common than tenors. So it might not be untrue for mezzos but I wouldn't know right now. I'm not a pro with the male voices either, but I am a lot better than average. I'm good enough at this point to make educated guesses even with untrained singers. I took a listen to Dan's soundcloud just now and I can tell he is an actual tenor (congrats Dan your dream is a reality), there are more than enough notes of him singing down to C3 and from Eb4 - F4 to tell this. I can even tell he could potentially be a lower one, which sounds unbelievable but there are indicators in his voice, despite the stereotypical "lyric" sound he has because he has a bright timbre and is singing thin in the high notes. Freddie Mercury mixed a lot like he did, they even sound similar in a way if you listen their low notes and higher notes, and Freddie Mercury was a lower tenor as well (ignore the annotations on the video saying he is a "baritenor" pls LOL)

 

 

 

i'm really not sure I want to talk about it LOL...all I can say right now is the amount of baritones and tenors is somewhat closer than you think. There's a particular group with no actual tenors in it, they were popular some years back I think. One of the groups popular now has mostly baritones actually, not including the rappers...out of the three main singers people talk about in this thread, only one is a tenor. Honestly two would be rated well if they were rated as baritones. I can't talk about them though, there is actually evidence of it to show but I'm not confident I can convince people seeing as how Taeyang is already so hard. They also have bad sounding lower registers, like Taeyang initially seemed, so it makes me sound even crazier despite their passaggi clearly indicating otherwise. I mean, why are there no good high baritones for example? Everyone knows sopranos can be around good, mezzos, tenors, lower baritones...but the most common voice type, the higher baritones? None of them? LOL, one or two of them would be rated close to good but they're being called tenors. But yeah... all three of those guys, even Jay Park, are baritones.

 

I know what i'm saying is a bit crazy but think about this critically. To assume that there are like 98% tenors is to assume that people that sign these singers have ears to even discern that in the first place. Or to assume that everyone is a "light lyric" is to also assume that they can tell...they definitely cannot. Even the classical teachers that spend their lives learning classically cannot do this correctly, as I've shown. Pop record labels aren't gonna be like "okay well you're attractive and have appeal, naturally talented and can sing in most of the 4th octave or at least have what sounds to be a trainable voice, nice youthful sound...but I can tell you're a baritone and we don't like those fuckers, sorry". They really cannot tell. Baritones, ESPECIALLY the high ones, can mix throughout the entire 4th octave and even into the 5th. Most non-professionals cannot, even tenors here can attest to that, but professionals? professionals yeah, they may not be pretty "resonant" singers but one thing they make sure their singers can do is mix, regardless of being tenor or baritone.

 

 

You just told me that nobody asked me to read the discussion, yet you are trying to shame me for not reading it? Okay... Well anyway, my situation is fairly different than Taeyang's considering I am like 10 years younger than him. My voice is young and is still well within the developmental and growth stages. That being said, upon further growth and developing of my technique I am fairly sure I am a tenor. Which is what i have been told all along by voice teachers I just didn't want to believe them. So yeah.

yeah I was purposely being a bit of a dick, I spent time writing that because I'm passionate about what I talk about, and I don't need some snarky comment for my efforts. I'm sitting here trying to give free info that people spend thousands and thousands of dollars in universities just to be tricked by some shitty classical teacher who will tell you you're a "light lyric tenor" or a "leggero", just like that spinto tenor who I posted on my soundcloud. Maybe not even that, they'll just train you as a "baritone" for your college years, especially if you are dramatic. This happens a lot.

 

I'm rather surprised you don't remember me telling you on kakao about a year and a few months ago that you're a tenor after 1 minute of listening to you. You showed me both a bit of your classical singing and a bit of your pop singing. I even gave you a bunch of operatic tenors to listen to because I was that sure. You were telling me your teacher was unsure of your voice type and I said...nah.

[Gung]

Hello there. Do you guys analyze Cpop? I've always wondered how this singer would rank in your ranking. I'm illiterate in the vocal department, but I love how she does high notes so smoothly I don't even recognize that it's a high note. 

 

 

Thanks in advance. She has plenty of materials from I am a singer China too. 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Aniki47

[ParkHyoLee]

I took a listen to Dan's soundcloud just now and I can tell he is an actual tenor

 

 

yeah I was purposely being a bit of a dick, I spent time writing that because I'm passionate about what I talk about, and I don't need some snarky comment for my efforts. I'm sitting here trying to give free info that people spend thousands and thousands of dollars in universities just to be tricked by some shitty classical teacher who will tell you you're a "light lyric tenor" or a "leggero", just like that spinto tenor who I posted on my soundcloud. Maybe not even that, they'll just train you as a "baritone" for your college years, especially if you are dramatic. This happens a lot.

 

Do me too again pls I got even more lost the more progress I made  

 

I just wanted to repeat again that thanks for all the really good info that you've released that make actual scientific and statistic sense to me 

Edited April 21, 2017 by ParkHyoLee

[WDorn]

The problem with baritones in k-pop? They are out of mainstream. One needs to sing high notes to debut & be considered good enough by the public. Some can do it, some who were trained out of k-pop industry have their low register developed as well. Mostly they don't: they just spend their time crafting reasonable falcetto & mix.

Boys start their training before puberty hits, some lose their high notes, but aren't trained to sin anything else nontheless. They can't - logically - all be tenors. They can't sing low notes well enough, so their rating as baritones might be lower.

But we all do know baritones range overlaps with both tenor & bass so it's not only range, but vocal color that matters.

When analysis should be based on k-pop repertoire there's close to none to analyze in lower range, so all are considered as tenors; and it's quite normal tbh.

 

But, yes, I'm almost sure for myself even Kim Junsu was supposed to mutate in light baritone, but forced his vocal chords 'to the win' & hence his hoarseness.

 

From a younger ones - DAY6 YoungK sings high notes in their songs, his falcetto is nice & developed, his real singing voice doesn't reach that high at all. He would be another weak tenor if analyzed. His low notes - when he rarely sings in real voice - suggest an amazing bariton. I don't think even he himself pays attention. He lost wide range through voice mutation, learned rap - as they do in k-pop - and falcetto 'cause still composes too high (the guilty sings).

I don't think he would even try to develop lower range. He's just an example, I'm pretty sure k-pop industry has enough hidden baritones. But there's almost no way they suddenly be discovered & that's their own fault.

[Dumb Dumb]

The problem with baritones in k-pop? They are out of mainstream. One needs to sing high notes to debut & be considered good enough by the public. Some can do it, some who were trained out of k-pop industry have their low register developed as well. Mostly they don't: they just spend their time crafting reasonable falcetto & mix.

Boys start their training before puberty hits, some lose their high notes, but aren't trained to sin anything else nontheless. They can't - logically - all be tenors. They can't sing low notes well enough, so their rating as baritones might be lower.

But we all do know baritones range overlaps with both tenor & bass so it's not only range, but vocal color that matters.

When analysis should be based on k-pop repertoire there's close to none to analyze in lower range, so all are considered as tenors; and it's quite normal tbh.

 

But, yes, I'm almost sure for myself even Kim Junsu was supposed to mutate in light baritone, but forced his vocal chords 'to the win' & hence his hoarseness.

 

From a younger ones - DAY6 YoungK sings high notes in their songs, his falcetto is nice & developed, his real singing voice doesn't reach that high at all. He would be another weak tenor if analyzed. His low notes - when he rarely sings in real voice - suggest an amazing bariton. I don't think even he himself pays attention. He lost wide range through voice mutation, learned rap - as they do in k-pop - and falcetto 'cause still composes too high (the guilty sings).

I don't think he would even try to develop lower range. He's just an example, I'm pretty sure k-pop industry has enough hidden baritones. But there's almost no way they suddenly be discovered & that's their own fault.

 

Do you think the same thing happens with mezzo? I have the impression that there are several mezzos hidden in the kpop, which can not shine because they do not reach high notes

[Secre]

Hello there. Do you guys analyze Cpop? I've always wondered how this singer would rank in your ranking. I'm illiterate in the vocal department, but I love how she does high notes so smoothly I don't even recognize that it's a high note. 

 

 

Thanks in advance. She has plenty of materials from I am a singer China too. 

I think she supports. Her mix is very heady though which is why her high notes sound smooth I guess. I'm not sure of the quality of those notes tbh, but I think they're pretty tight.

[WDorn]

 

Do you think the same thing happens with mezzo? I have the impression that there are several mezzos hidden in the kpop, which can not shine because they do not reach high notes

It could be highly possible for more deep tones, but I only follow few female soloists & those are counted as great lyric sopranos, so I wouldn't be able to note any.

But in my opinion it should be a bit easier for female singers, since all the vocal tones still fall in comfortable range Korean public prefer. But if they can't reach high notes, yes, they wouldn't be considered impressive enough.

Edited April 21, 2017 by WDorn

[AhMin]

my ears aren't well trained enough to do it with female voices, I don't think. Well I have not tried at all anyway, but it's not something I would feel confident at all with. Thing is sopranos are more common than mezzos, but baritones are more common than tenors. So it might not be untrue for mezzos but I wouldn't know right now. I'm not a pro with the male voices either, but I am a lot better than average. I'm good enough at this point to make educated guesses even with untrained singers. I took a listen to Dan's soundcloud just now and I can tell he is an actual tenor (congrats Dan your dream is a reality), there are more than enough notes of him singing down to C3 and from Eb4 - F4 to tell this. I can even tell he could potentially be a lower one, which sounds unbelievable but there are indicators in his voice, despite the stereotypical "lyric" sound he has because he has a bright timbre and is singing thin in the high notes. Freddie Mercury mixed a lot like he did, they even sound similar in a way if you listen their low notes and higher notes, and Freddie Mercury was a lower tenor as well (ignore the annotations on the video saying he is a "baritenor" pls LOL)

 

 

 

i'm really not sure I want to talk about it LOL...all I can say right now is the amount of baritones and tenors is somewhat closer than you think. There's a particular group with no actual tenors in it, they were popular some years back I think. One of the groups popular now has mostly baritones actually, not including the rappers...out of the three main singers people talk about in this thread, only one is a tenor. Honestly two would be rated well if they were rated as baritones. I can't talk about them though, there is actually evidence of it to show but I'm not confident I can convince people seeing as how Taeyang is already so hard. They also have bad sounding lower registers, like Taeyang initially seemed, so it makes me sound even crazier despite their passaggi clearly indicating otherwise. I mean, why are there no good high baritones for example? Everyone knows sopranos can be around good, mezzos, tenors, lower baritones...but the most common voice type, the higher baritones? None of them? LOL, one or two of them would be rated close to good but they're being called tenors. But yeah... all three of those guys, even Jay Park, are baritones.

 

I know what i'm saying is a bit crazy but think about this critically. To assume that there are like 98% tenors is to assume that people that sign these singers have ears to even discern that in the first place. Or to assume that everyone is a "light lyric" is to also assume that they can tell...they definitely cannot. Even the classical teachers that spend their lives learning classically cannot do this correctly, as I've shown. Pop record labels aren't gonna be like "okay well you're attractive and have appeal, naturally talented and can sing in most of the 4th octave or at least have what sounds to be a trainable voice, nice youthful sound...but I can tell you're a baritone and we don't like those fuckers, sorry". They really cannot tell. Baritones, ESPECIALLY the high ones, can mix throughout the entire 4th octave and even into the 5th. Most non-professionals cannot, even tenors here can attest to that, but professionals? professionals yeah, they may not be pretty "resonant" singers but one thing they make sure their singers can do is mix, regardless of being tenor or baritone.

 

 

yeah I was purposely being a bit of a dick, I spent time writing that because I'm passionate about what I talk about, and I don't need some snarky comment for my efforts. I'm sitting here trying to give free info that people spend thousands and thousands of dollars in universities just to be tricked by some shitty classical teacher who will tell you you're a "light lyric tenor" or a "leggero", just like that spinto tenor who I posted on my soundcloud. Maybe not even that, they'll just train you as a "baritone" for your college years, especially if you are dramatic. This happens a lot.

 

I'm rather surprised you don't remember me telling you on kakao about a year and a few months ago that you're a tenor after 1 minute of listening to you. You showed me both a bit of your classical singing and a bit of your pop singing. I even gave you a bunch of operatic tenors to listen to because I was that sure. You were telling me your teacher was unsure of your voice type and I said...nah.

Your comment was snarky to him so it's understandable if he was snarky back. Anyway I actually thought Dan was a tenor for like ever, a very untrained tenor. It's easier to find tenors who sing high so it's logical that there being more tenors is normal. A group popular a few years back? They would all need to be re analyzed then. ._. It sounds like you're talking about EXO ... and I don't know who else. You don't have to convince us, just tell us and I'll look into it.. this just frustrates me cause some ratings would change. Not for the ones I mentioned but others perhaps. Of course with such few baritones being showcased it'd be hard to have good baritones but you know.. Edited April 21, 2017 by AhMin

[WDorn]

It's easier to find tenors who sing high so it's logical that there being more tenors is normal.

It would be valid if k-pop agencies casted singers in their 20s with classic education (just as they do here), but i Korea they take in teenagers. Kids all want to debut, they all try to sing high. Some can't & are turned into rappers now (but prior, for older groups not so much).

But, as I mentioned above, all those potential baritones don't sing enough in their most comfortable range, some even can't, being trained as light lyric tenors. 😅