Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[lepidoptery]

DAFUQ DID I JUST WATCH LOL

FLAMBOYANCE AND NAKEDNESS, LIKE I SAID.

[lepidoptery]

I couldn't be bothered to pull out the virtual keyboard while I was listening to IU's new album, but I noticed a lot of the lower notes are air.  Since they didn't seem that low to me I wondered if she just does that as a stylistic effect, or if her range is actually that limited?  It happened so often I thought if her range were actually limited down there she should have just raised the key on all her songs (though I guess that might take her past her upper limit....)

[lepidoptery]

no she is the best in her genre. But she's not the best in Korea. Kpop isn't the only genre in Korea you know.

Yeah, but you said kpop, not korea, so the other person got confused. XD

 

Um, didn't we base or chart on universal standards/ don't we call people good,decent etc, by universal standards. Because honestly, Ailee would not be considered good in KPOP she would be considered Amazing, but no, from a technical standpoint she is only Good, and in American she would still be Good, same goes for Like Haeri and Yeonji, in America they would still be considered good, they wouldn't be bumped down to Decent, their techniques are Good, so they are Good Vocalist technically. Jessica in KPOP would not be Mediocre, in KPOP she would be considered, OK, considering how many upon many KPOP idols are less than she is, in America she would be mediocre....seriously. TaeYeon in would be considered Good for KPOP, but universally she's just Decent. 

 

SoHyang in KPOP would be considered a Goddess sent from above to purify the heathens, but no, in Universally she's Amazing..

That is honestly what I thought.  But maybe some users think in relative terms sometimes...?

[lepidoptery]

Who is that? Beyonce?

I thought about it, and then realized that it was possible that you interpreted the pic as an example of the action rather than the specific person in question doing the action (and that the poster may even have intended it that way).  'Cause I was about to ask if you were actually, rather than figuratively, color-blind. orz

 

EDIT: also, I got confused and thought ppl were still talking about Miley, rather than Mariah.  Mostly 'cause I didn't think Mariah has been that thin for a while now.... ^^;

Edited October 9, 2013 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

Smart user.

Hay, colorblind ppl also use the internet! >.> <.< >.>

[lepidoptery]

I haven't seen people using Mariah as a standard.

 

I won't kill you because it's true - Mariah deteriorated because of her nodules. She's improving, but Beyonce is better than her. But Mariah in her prime was

Honestly, I think Mariah only came up then because it was Ariana Grande.  Otherwise, not really.  Usually ppl use MC+Whitney Houston (both in the prime) as the high water mark of attainment, but not really as a standard or anything....

 

So that's the third time I've seen this.  The first time someone said this (in the 250pg range?  I dunno) it passed without comment; the second time (not too long ago) it was contested even though the person quoted the previous instance.  And then now, again. XD

[lepidoptery]

is beyonce > current mariah?

Yes.

 

 

I know...it depends on the weight, right? Also why is Beyonce better than Mariah Carey. Did MC get worse or is Beyonce's stamina and resonance all throughout her range? I'm MC biased so that was a shock to me..

It depends on both weight,color,resonance. Alot tbh.

 

I dunno who told you Beyonce is better. They lied.

However, I will say Beyonce is in her Prime now and Mariah is not.

Beyonce isn't better than Mariah.

 

Explain yourselves!!!!  Especially you, aki. XD

[lepidoptery]

Typo - I was on my BB.

RIIIIIIGHT. but yeah when I read that Josias quote, I remember it and I was srsly like ha. right. what. lol

lol, time for a cage match!  Why not talk about Beyonce and Mariah for a little while... it can be Josias vs... everyone else. XD

[lepidoptery]

So Ahmin, I like your new ways of "ranking". So is weak somewhere in the middle of bad and mediocre? Who counts in that tier?

Really, he ranks ppl the same way, but with nicer words, and with consideration that most singers suck anyway so there's no reason to be so harsh about being merely average.

[lepidoptery]

Excuses. excuses, not lies dearly lol <3 I disagree as well.

I believe Josias does think current Beyonce > current Mariah based on the indirect way he phrased it. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and I guess he meant something like Prime Beyonce > Prime Mariah = lie. Which I can agree and disagree with, because some of the things mime has been telling me lead me to believe Mariah's amazing but also had her problems, which Beyonce seems not to have as many, or at all, so overall she might be a healthier vocalist, but what they're capable of doing with their vocals is not comparable since both are amazing at that.

 

<3 Exactly, ranking errybody the same with words that are less diva-ish and considering all aspects in a global scale. I am not biased like some who only bring the bad points of certain vocalists and then exaggerate the good ones of some others *cough*

Yeah, but the person he was replying to was clearly asking about current Bey vs. current MC.  Oh well. XD  If he comes along and spams us with videos of MC's recent performances to prove how she hasn't deteriorated as much as ppl here are assuming, it's not a bad thing.

[lepidoptery]

I know that, they were clearly asking that so Idk why he didn't just say yes. LOL Well uh, that'd be hard cuz it ain't like we don't watch her videos and her deterioration is so clear it hurts. lol 

Probably 'cause it would hurt his soul, deep inside. :(

[lepidoptery]

Oh, since I am on a campus I randomly saw one of those ads (with the bits with a phone number/email that you can rip off) on a bulletin board for a vocal instructor:

http://www.arvocalstudios.com/

 

 

Stuff in the FAQ about the lesson:

In general, the first half of the lesson we will be focusing on vocal technique. Breath, posture,
resonance, legato, vocal agility, support, articulation, vowels, and dynamics are aspects that will
be explored and refined through vocal exercises. (These exercises are separate from your song
repertoire.) The goal is to develop a healthy, free and expressive sound that is truly your own!

 

 

Seems to be saying all the right things... although the description for the Alexander Technique under "Technique" sounds a bit... New Age-y nonsense, but as far as the actual effects go it seems fine.

 

OTOH, I am "..." that her full name isn't on the website.  But google helped me find her original opera.

 

http://vimeo.com/13996708

 

How is she?

 

If she's good, I guess I'll just have to see if I'm willing to pay (slightly less than) $75/lesson.

[lepidoptery]

I've heard good and bad things about the Alexander technique. It's something used more by theater people generally but it has done wonders for a lot of performers. A lot of voice teachers incorporate some of it into their lessons. She is quite good, a little less than $75 seems about right if she's faculty. If she's not, it's a bit pricey. My teachers charge around $100 per lesson if you're not in the music school lol. 

 

I would actually recommend first taking lessons from a grad student if you're just starting out. They have a lot of the basics fresh in their mind and many end up being fantastic teachers. That's what I did initially and it worked out great. They also charge way less. 

Ah... actually, I took a handful of lessons a several years ago from a student (not sure if she was undergrad/masters/grad anymore), but I'm sure current me (presumably not that different from past me) could still learn a lot from someone of that level. XD  Craigslist doesn't seem to have a lot of hits for "vocal lessons" in my area, alas.  I wonder where they would advertise....

 

EDIT: oh, right, I should check under "voice" and "singing" as well. XD

Edited October 9, 2013 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

Where abouts do you live? Is there a university with a music school or conservatory in your area? That's a good place to look. 

Philadelphia; my campus is University of Pennsylvania, but there is University of the Arts within 2 miles of me, so I suppose I can wander over some time and look.  (Although the school itself seems Jazz/Contemporary-focused....)

 

Is 1995 pre vocal deterioration? Because she did it a lot in this song

 

 

1:03 if you want to get specific. 

Like "ar-arms"?

Edited October 9, 2013 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

Yes, it's when the sound seems like it just halts for no reason. That's her glottis closing. Oh, and Lepidoptery, how far away is Caregie Mellon from you?

 

 

Wow, should I just never ever use the technical definitions for things? There are different types of glottals and that video is littered with them. Notice I didn't say it was a glottal "attack", I just called it a glottal. 

Carnegie Mellon?  I didn't realize they had an arts school, since my cousin went there for Computer Science (which is v. good there).  But no, not close at all, Pittsburgh is 300miles on the other side of the state. XD

[lepidoptery]

Oh wait, Curtis is in Phili right? That's an amazing school. 

!!!!

 

It's literally 5 blocks from me!  So I guess I'll definitely wander over at some point.

[lepidoptery]

Mariah had nodules since she was a child.

 

She has said in interviews she's had them since childhood. And if you listen to some early performances you can actually hear them.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liYBw4tUY6U

 

She's been singing with nodules since the start of her singing career probably even before.

Where am I supposed to be hearing them, or is it an all-over effect?

[lepidoptery]

Please somebody listen to Ailees G3.

Where is it?

[lepidoptery]

Voldemin is an ass, jesus...

 

So ,is chesty mix unhealthy? Whitney's damage was caused by the drugs and the chesty mix?

I read that Whitney Houston didn't mix, actually....

[lepidoptery]

That was wrong, there was a video I watched and Whitney was hitting G#5's and the user of the video was like "She never learned how to mix that's why she can only sing that high" I was like lol okay. 

 

It's somewhat unhealthy, it can damage you because belting in itself uses the vocal cords a lot so belting everyday with a chesty mix even with the best of the techniques, it will tire the vocal cords out overtime. Someone who always uses head voice or a jazz singer who doesn't necessarily belt, are much more likely to have their voice last for a long time.

Ah, ok.  I read it on that blog post you linked that was comparing/analyzing Mariah/Whitney/Beyonce/Christina/Rihanna....

[lepidoptery]

Let's not. I'll answer but take it with a grain of salt because most here are not good at all.

Suzy > Minah > Sunhwa/Dasom/Sohee/Hyuna > Yoona/Dara/Jiyeon > Sulli > UEE > Hara

Hyuna is in the upper half due to like one note in studio, right? XD

[lepidoptery]

I know most of you still don't like Ariana and think she's mediocre but you have to give her props for bringing some vocal creativity into her live performances... she isn't near close to Sohyang, but she sings in Sohyang's range.... here she continuously blasts out F5s, peaks at F6 as usual, but then instead of finishing in head voice as usual, belts a G#5. she probably has incorrect technique but she isnt by any means a bad singer! ^^

 

 

Well, of course... even if she is "mediocre", that's "average", not "bad"....

 

Hm.  It's beginning to get weird to me how I don't really like the sound of anyone's voice. XD  Like wine, I guess.  She sounds kind of congested throughout, is that just her voice or is it strain or something else?

[lepidoptery]

Let's not. I'll answer but take it with a grain of salt because most here are not good at all.

Suzy > Minah > Sunhwa/Dasom/Sohee/Hyuna > Yoona/Dara/Jiyeon > Sulli > UEE > Hara

Do you think Jiyeon is still down there?  Maybe just because I don't have an up-to-date/favorable impression of Sunhwa/Dasom/Sohee/Hyuna's ability (however poor it is), but Jiyeon seemed to do "really well" here:

 

http://youtu.be/8pEqJ-Nx9Mw

 

I mean, it could be backtrack, but it would have to be all backtrack, since I can really obviously hear the backtrack not making up for Soyeon/Qri/Boram's parts.

 

(I mean, even if her placement is wrong and she doesn't have resonance, she must at least have some stability and decent pitch here....)

Edited October 12, 2013 by lepidoptery

[lepidoptery]

Well..... it is common to put wet(aka processed-EQ,compressed,reverbed,chorus effect,doubling) vocal tracks on backtracking as the show engineer many time will not  process their voice to make it nicer.  Jiyeon is not the type of singer that belt. 

This has nothing to do with belting, unless you brought it up because I mentioned the R word.

 

Jiyeon's part doesn't have much of that kind of effect (only what I guess is the "chorus effect" (or doubling?) with "teoksidogamyeon" and "hieoro") anyway; I'm talking about how her delivery is stable throughout her line (and sounds pretty much like she does in studio) whereas QBS in particular--well, they aren't all the same, Qri isn't singing loudly enough to match the backtrack/the others, while Soyeon and Boram sometimes have parts that they don't sing in order to breathe/because they overlap with themselves, so they come in and out and don't always sync completely/might be drowned out by the backtrack.  Anyway, the other 5 sound so obviously live I don't know why Jiyeon wouldn't also be live, but she sounds a lot better here than I've ever heard her before.

 

She could be above and be with Sohee and the rest but still lol You're right, she sounds better but all these girls have decent pitch, if not they could never studio record

You get infinite do-overs in the studio, though. :p  Until your CEO comes by and beats you for wasting money.

[lepidoptery]

I reported my post and the mods deleted it.

You could have just edited it, though.... XD;

 

that was ages ago. Remember when there was quite a buzz between who was better between Luna, taeyeon, eunji and hyorin because they were quite close to each other. Its reached to a consensus that hyorin > Taeyeon > Luna > Eunji.as akisame said u can't get worse than bom.

Well, I thought that was kind of yes/no... like in kpop bom is the worst idol that is supposed to be part of a vocal line, but there are non-vocal line idols that may be worse than her... but at that level you're just scrabbling at minute differences anyway, so I dunno how meaningful it really is to be worse than her. XD