Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[ZRH23]

 

 

I looked through every "My Man" performance I could find and didn't see any with a haywire vibrato.

 

You don't find her resonance impressive? Whose resonance do you find impressive then? It's not just that Barbra has resonance, it's that she's able to maintain it even throughout very difficult phrases--phrasing shifting through registers, phrases that are extended very long, difficult vowels, etc.

 

The first three clips of this video all show multi-octave phrasing into her upper register. They're all supported, resonant, and you can hear her change her mixing style in each of them.

 

Barbra does amazing vocal feats all the time. There's about a 10-second resonant G5 in that video. Also, her control is impeccable. Just start about 8:27 in that video. She can sustain notes in crazy dynamic levels and then do dynamics on them even after 20+ seconds. This is amazing breath support. Amazing control. That's the foundation of singing. Agility is just ornamentation. About 4:50 in the video, listen to Barbra just phrase down and back up so fluidly. This isn't just a style. This is excellent technique.

 

Now before you start asking if Barbra can do something like "Dangerously in Love," you need to ask if Bey can because this is a mess:

2:33 is all tense and then strained at 2:39. Who cares if she's trying to do elaborate ornamentation with her vocals if she's straining? It doesn't count for anyone else. I mean, Lee Sun Hee got a bad rap for doing much better than that. What Beyonce does there is what LSH was criticized for on steroids. Contrary to what some would say, that's not a style. That's just bad technique.

 

Beyonce doesn't have great development down to C#3 up to F5/F#5, lol. That's Han Hong.

 

Barbra's head voice isn't the most resonant, but it's really supported. Ailee's support is thin in her upper head voice. Whitney Houston, Natalie Weiss, Betty Buckley, and Maureen McGovern all have better and more developed head voices than Barbra does, but hers isn't bad. It's really well supported.

 

Barbra is better in her upper than Beyonce is in her upper. Barbra is better in her mid than Beyonce is in her mid. In terms of what they do with their lowers, Barbra's is better but Beyonce extends her support lower.

I remember that in the My Man Performance, she sounded young.

 

I find Whitney's, Mariah's, Natalie's, Lady Gaga's resonance impressive, to answer your question.

 

Again, Beyonce being inconsistent early in her career is well-known. She cold go anywhere to maving good F#5s (in Cater To You) to getting tense D5s.

I'm talking about the Beyonce Experience tour and beyond that era. That tour had probably her best vocals, she supported/ more F5s there than Mariah, Whitney or Barbra ever did on a G5. I ask you to not use any clips of her before 2008 cuz we all know that can be inconsistent. She doesn't have great development from C#3 to F5/F#5, you say? Okay then. I dont believe Barbra has good development from Eb3 to G#5 either but it's fine.

 

What do you mean by Barbra is better in her upper than Beyonce? In head voice or upper mix? Cuz I think those are untrue. Beyonce's head voice is...quite a way better. Like...I never heard her getting tense in F#5, especially recently. Upper mix, Beyonce's F5s are always interestingly well done and so are her Eb5s (even recently) so I dont think any of them are better in upper mix.

 

Ugh, I get a headache talking about this. Conclusion, I know that Barbra is superior to most vocalists in parts like support development, and her fluidity or whatnot. But I also know that she is far from perfect and not THAT superior to all contemporary vocalists. I like Barbra but she isn't perfect

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

 

 

This may sound a bit cross, but I don't intend it to. It's meant to be straight forward. We're talking about objective facts. Not what we believe or what impresses us.

 

Barbra's resonance is generally-speaking better than all the vocalists you just mentioned. Whitney, sometimes in the beginning of her career and certainly in the second half of it, relied too heavily on a chesty mix and pushed her voice past healthy limits. She gets a pass for it for whatever reason. Mariah has always been overrated. Lowered her larynx in her lower register. No head voice to speak of. An upper register that wasn't bad but certainly not comparable to Barbra's. Mariah's strongest notes were always between C5 - D#5, and Barbra is much better in this range. Natalie's good. She certainly has a better head voice than Barbra, but she lacks the overall discipline and refinement Barbra has. She can't pull off Barbra's dynamic feats. Lady Gaga shouldn't even be in the conversation. None of these women have comparable breath support to Barbra, and it shows in the vocals.

 

 

Whitney's note at 30 seconds just isn't that good. It's chesty to the point that she loses control and slips the placement into her throat. Compare that to Barbra's chesty C5s at the end of the song. Barbra doesn't lose her projection, clarity, or placement. Barbra's got a very open and resonant note, and Whitney's doesn't even maintain support. How can she be so impressive if she can't sustain these notes for a few seconds without dropping support and Barbra can phrase similar notes with dynamics for over twenty seconds? It's really a ridiculous comparison. I challenge you to give me one example of Barbra ever dropping support to that degree on a very manageable C#5.

 

Does Whitney's note remind you of someone? Because it should. It's the same technique Lee Sun Hee uses there.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAhaYSg1q5U

 

Time stamps of Beyonce's "interestingly well-done" and "iconic" F5s (sure are interesting, at least):

 

00:30 - already tense and strains the note at 32.

00:38 - the note is bright, but it's strained

00:48 - tense, pushing causes a jump in pitch and strain (this is haywire, by the way)

00:58 - strained

1:22 - strained

1:34 - strained

1:58 - tense - throat closes on the word "stop"

2:46 - her throat closes on the word "stop"

3:07 - very tense, maybe stylistic but hard to tell with her

3:27 - tense

 

She's so aggressive and pushy in her approach. It's not an opinion. It's obvious.

 

Now time to check out her E5s that she can apparently do anything on (except consistently support):

 

00:24 - strained

00:37 - throaty

00:47 - pushed

00:55 - 1:05 - okay but pushed

1:07 - tense

1:16 - strained

1:36 - strained

1:54 - strained

1:59 - tense

2:25 - strained

2:42 - strained

2:50 - tense/flat

3:09 - basically screamed

3:18 - strained

3:23 - the whole ascent is strained and pushed (should remind you of The One. It's exactly what he does.)

3:37- tense

And the whole "different volumes" section isn't good either. It doesn't show any ability to maneuver in her upper with different dynamic levels.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEVr-_BxAEc

 

Listen to Lee Sun Hee's approach about 50 seconds in for E5s. It's exactly what Beyonce does for some of her upper notes (like the E5 at 37 seconds in that video) except it's placed much better. But the thread will acknowledge those are strained but give Beyonce a pass for notes that are frankly far worse.

 

 

On the E5 at 3:23 in that video, she was trying to do an ascent like Lea does here (at 2:27), but ended up pushing because she doesn't have the proper control or the breath support to do it and ends up sounding like The One.

 

You need to produce that "My Man" performance from Barbra so we can all see it. Show us the tension she has if it's so prevalent. It's just not.

 

I never said Barbra was perfect or superior to all vocalists. I already said vocalists like Betty Buckley are in the same conversation as her, but Beyonce's not.

Whitney's chesty mix got a pass because her voice type can actual handle the weight in comparison to someone like Lee Sunhee. Mariah's best notes are C#5-D5 and Barbra usually does them better? How, where and what's the comparison? For all I know, they both do it very well but Mariah's resonance is like a slap to the face. And whatever happened to the notes above that range? Especially F#5s. Sure, there's some inconsistencies but for the most parts, it's better than Barbra's. And how are you sure that Natalie doesn't have discipline and refinement, which by the way might well be subjective? I don't hear any wrong with Whitney's note except that it got a little pushed. And why shouldn't Lady Gaga in the conversation, we're talking about resonance here. C5 and below, the woman doesn't even need a mic to project.

I'm afraid we're disagreeing on a LOT of things here.

 

I clicked on the Beyonce video and the first one was Dangerously In Love. If you call that strain then please, let's agree to disagree. She does not have the same big resonance sure, but it is there, and it is clear. Throughout the video...I honestly dont hear strain, maybe pushy then and there but no strain or over-tensing. Now do not say 'I can't help you if you don't hear the same thing' again because whether you intended it to be or not, you can sound really condescending. It's just an honest thought, not an attack.

 

For the E5, I agree for the sustained one. 'one of a KIND' E5, I find it pushed and very tense. But again, thats the time when she was very inconsistent. Other than that, I don't agree....

 

 

 

Listen to the forever more. Her vibrato was also very goat-like in the first place but the last C5 was unstable. If you dont hear it, fine but agree to disagree. Obviously, if you don't hear the same thing we are not getting anywhere.

 

I think Barbra is amazing as a vocalist but just not as amazing as you make her out to be. I haven't enough of Betty to know. The Lee Sunhee E5 was well placed but a bit of a raised larynx to me.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w-pVb0ST2w

 

7:30 - 7:47 Betty absolutely SLAYS. She doesn't even take a breath!

I'd love for you to recommend some performances (and mention the highlight's of it) cuz I really like her voice lol. She sounds amazing.

 

Honestly, her ability in the lower chest range is very similar to Sohyang's. She's more connected down there, but the range she supports well is almost identical when it comes to the chest register. They are equally deficient in this regard. As for the mixed register, Sohyang is frankly light years ahead of Lee Young Hyun.

 

Is she the closest one in terms of the mixed register? Honestly, I don't think so. Ock Joo Hyun and Hyorin both produce (or produced, in Hyorin's case) better resonance at least up until Eb5 and support/ed better until F5. Lee Young Hyun honestly sings with a great deal of tension above D5. Her vibrato is really forced, and many of her notes E5 and up are strained/more tension than anything. I think she's overrated, to be honest. Even when she supports in her upper mixed range, she's often too tense to produce any real resonance.

 

As far as overall technique, no, she's not close to Sohyang at all, but there are singers who are close to Sohyang, and even some who are better. I think Lee Young Hyun gets a lot of attention because she can mix into the upper fifth octave, but honestly many of her notes aren't that good, and compared to more elite mixed belters like Sohyang, her technique isn't very precise. Even Ann One, as a mezzo, has produced better resonance into the Eb5/E5 range and has a much more disciplined singing approach overall.

I actually agree with you on this, I just can't hear that resonance people keep talking about, I just hear a lot of tension and some support. Like that performance where she had a lot of E5s, people said they were great but...I don't hear it lol. 

 

between natalie weiss and uji, who has the better low range?

Natalie Weiss. They're not too far apart but Lena Park would be a better match.

[ZRH23]

SoHyang is better than Beyonce.

 

I think we need to make a distinction between pop and contemporary singers here. Technically, many singers, including SoHyang, aren't what we would call "pop" singers in today's vernacular.

 

With that being said, if you're speaking of vocalists who sing in a contemporary style, I'd make a ranking something like this.

 

For like elite, upper-echelon vocalists, I'd say Barbra Streisand, Betty Buckley, Sarah Vaughn, and Judy Garland are definitely here. Yang Hee Eun, Natalie Weiss, and Elaine Paige probably are too but maybe to a lesser extent. Perhaps Whitney in her prime was also at this level. I'm surely leaving some great people out. There's a big gap between here and the next level.

 

For really great vocalists, I'd say SoHyang, Mariah, Shirley Bassey. ì´ì§€í˜œ Maaaaaaaybe Ock Joo Hyun. She might be somewhere between good and great for me. Her consistency in the top of her mixed register isn't very good. I'm gonna catch flack for this, but I don't think Beyonce's at this level. At least not consistently.

 

Next, for like really good vocalists, probably Beyonce. Lady Gaga. Lena Park. Hyorin. Ailee on a good day.

 

The rest of the vocalists you mentioned are just kind of average.

Beyonce from 2008-2013 was probably great. Before and after that is inconsistent (she can have resonant moments to F5 but tension on B4 wtf)  but definitely still above Lady Gaga and Lena. Gaga can have a really pushy mix while Lena can end up throaty and has ugly stylistic choices. Gaga's lower range is better than Beyonce or Lena but her head voice is...subpar compared to them.  Ailee and Hyorin are not their level though, unless it's the same Ailee in that Les MIserables thing.

 

Ock Joo Hyun though? I've never thought of her being anywhere near Sohyang, Mariah or Bey? I wonder what you've heard of her.

 

A question I've been wondering for a while now: how do American singers, like for example a Lady Gaga, Ariana Grande, Christina Aguilera, Selena Gomez, Beyonce etc,  compare with kpop/Korean vocalists?

 

Which ones are on a level of So Hyang? And which on Ailee's level, or Taeyeon's, or Hyorin's, or IU's?

There have been skill rankings (sort of) of kpop singers, but where do the American and British popular artists and singers rank?

IU is probably around Ariana..okay, lower lol. Christina Aguilera is...yeah. Not good. Neither is Selena.

 

From what I know Beyonce is better than Sohyang or maybe at the same lvl.

Lady Gaga is probably around Ailee lvl or below. Christina i would say is below Hyolyn, I think around Solji maybe?

Ariana is below Hyolyn too.

Selena Gomez

 

This is from what I got from what people said here.

XTina is definitely not Solji's level lol.

[ZRH23]

Xtina is not at the weak lvl right? So I thought it was either Solji or maybe Bom/that girl from After School (other than Raina)

Bom and Jungah are both weak and are FAR worse than Solji, who can actually support well. Considering Christina can strain E4s...yeah. She makes a better attempt and understanding in support than Bom or Jungah and carries more depth, but she has SO much tension, she's not really better.

 

Ock Joo Hyun has a great chest register, much more developed than most sopranos. She can have support until the upper 5th octave, even if it's tense at times. Great dynamics.

Her dynamics are great indeed. I've seen that in her musicals. But I haven't heard her support much above Eb5? And her head voice is not very good either. Support and dynamics wise, perhaps superior to kpop vocalists tho.

[ZRH23]

Why does k-pop have main vocal? Maybe I've been living under a rock, but in America we only have a lead vocal and vocal. Usually vocal and sub-vocal mean the same thing. Before, main and lead vocal(s) meant the same thing to me. Now, main mean the best singer in the group, while lead is the second best in the group. Does anyone know the origin of this? Is it from Korea? Or did someone started using these words and everyone followed along? I seen interviews where idols introduced them self as a main vocal, but I don't think  I remember anyone calling them self a lead vocal. To me, how can someone be the main voice of a group but not be the lead of it? I've never heard anyone call someone a main vocalist until i found k-pop.

I think it's just from Korea lol.

[ZRH23]

Guys. Natalie Weiss slayed me.

 

I thought she only had Eb3/E3 and they weren't that good but here, she slayed not just one but TWO C#3s. Check out 0.14 and 0.52.

Beyonce who? Lol jkjk. This is frankly, more impressive however. Those sounded very full.

[ZRH23]

I saw a clip from her Instagram, and she was hitting A#2, lol. But I've also heard her be a little inconsistent between C#3 amd Eb3, so I'm not sure about her consistency. It's getting better.

By the way, Natalie >> Bey

Bb2? Really have not seen that before! I'd love to hear it. Yes, I know she's better than Bey. She has a much healthier approach overall. Her runs though, although accurate, can be quite messy in arrangements and out of place at times. And I haven't heard her head voice above C6 but I hear better production from Beyonce anyways, when it comes to head voice. I remember you saying Bey having tension on F#5 in head voice but can I please see it? I'm not having another debate but really, her head voice is the best part of her voice. She hasn't had any major problems with it since 2007 and even before that, she's had not bad notes in the 6th octave.

[ZRH23]

Yeah, someone linked it on a YouTube video somewhere. She was phrasing really low, but my guess is she was sick, and she was able to hit deeper than she usually does. She has a killer lower for sure, though.

 

I'm not really big on Natalie musically, myself. She's got great technique, but she doesn't incorporate it well into the music (in my opinion).

 

I can't remember if I've heard Natalie above C6 or not, but I remember being really impressed with some of her notes in the A5 to C6 range, lol.

 

Yeah, I'll post it later. I'm at work now, and this computer doesn't have sound enabled, so I'll have to do a bit of searching.

Her musical choices are very questionable for me lol. At least it's not like Lena Park.

 

My guess is that Bey was wither singing Halo in bad condition or she was trying to do something of an attempt to 'mix' more into the head voice.

I'm gonna just give a few examples of her nice head voice:

 

 

This performance is usually used but understandably. 3.45 - 4.05.

 

 

3.35-3.45

 

 

3.10, goddamn that run tho. 4.23 - 4.35.

 

 

4.21.

 

Usually she'd put more weight from A5 - D6 but sometimes it'll be a bit lighter like the head voice from I Care.

 

Oh and plus this:

 

 

What do you think of the E5 at 2.30?

[ZRH23]

Hello please comment on Jiwon's note from 1:15-1:20, 1:30-1:37, 1:52-1:53 and her singing style in general

 

 

Click here to view the Tweet

I'm hearing a lack of proper support. Those C5s aren't too bad for the most part, but she really needs to build up support in general. But it's not very throaty or anything, just relatively shallow. So is her singing in general.

 

  

Hello! Can you guys please tell what do you think of Loona´s Chuu? I think she would be the strongest vocals in the group. Does she support?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

Oh, it does sound like she can support. Sounds like she's going for a more natural rounded approach compared to the others more girly, shallow voices. But Id love to hear her live.

 

 

Hi, do you think you could analyze this cover?  I was hoping for one from you, and you seem to do more thorough analysis. I don't know where are good or bad parts so I can't timestamp to do any justice. Thx

 

Okay, right off the bat, I hear some shallow support in her chest register. F#3 is almost inaudible and even Bb3s are shallow. She was also pitchy down there. There's barely any proper airflow established. The chorus was better for sure. B4 and A4, I think, they had better connection and are relatively relaxed, but her overall approach is still shallow and very nasal. But not too bad. She's supporting a bit at least. Like, Krystal. Her trills arent too bad but she really slows them down. Anything above B4 like, the repeated Halo's, they're squeezed and strained. What I like is her head voice though. Not very good around F5/F#5 but the first transition in the lower head voice weren't bad, smooth enough and it sounded pretty nice. She's not keeping a steady airflow so she runs out of breath quickly and has to cut her lines short, also she's creating tension. But the transitions to head voice/falsetto overall aren't bad, that surprised me.

[ZRH23]

analize her vocals pls?? :D

 

(JK)

 

Actually, I wanted to asks your thoughts on 2:32 - 3:07

I don't anything about vocals, but I thought their voices were kinda...weird, idk why...

Oof, none of them can support. Nasal, tight, high larynx, everything lol. I thought the one that sang at 3.04 wasn't bad but I listened closely and I think he sounds really tight. And high larynx throughout, barely any relaxed moments.  At least. I think so, I could be wrong. But the other two, I'm sure.

 

I don't know if this is too personal but can I ask y'all where/how did y'all learn to analysis voices? Did y'all just know these stuffs because y'all can sing or did y'all go to school and major in music or something like that?

Well, I'd LOVE to actually go to classes (majoring in Music might not have anything to do with vocals btw) but I am not at liberty lol. But I have spent the last few years knowing what I can. But I'm no expert..not even close lol. That's why I tell people to take my opinion with a grain of salt. However, other users here probably have their own experience -actual first-hand knowledge- on techniques and all the stuff.

[ZRH23]

not that i dont think he has a pleasant voice but why does kim jaehwan from wanna one get so much praise, his fellow idols and singers seem to think he is one of the best idol singers right now and I dont quite understand it? He sounds pretty stable to the untrained ear but at the same time, i dont see that hes on the same level as sandeul and kyuhyun. To me, his voice has a nasally quality although that is more likely a personal preference more than an technical observation

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xItpiOF6No0

Well, if people are praising him to be one of the best idol vocalist NOW then, they wouldn't really be wrong. If NOW, means their particular generation, that is.

 

I personally like his voice but also, he's one of the few idols in the new generation that have proper support (by idol standards at least). For example, his G4s are not as opened or relaxed as it could've been, but it still maintained support up there. Something that 90% of male idols since 2014 have failed to do. There's only Seventeen's Seungkwan, who is quite better when it comes to mixed range, and NCT's Taeil, who is inconsistent above F#4 but has shown nice moments till A4. Jaehwan is around their level, which isn't bad. There's only like... 3 other male idols who can SUPPORT only up to F#4, and that's SVT's DK and NCT's Doyoung and Jungwoo, if Im not mistaken. Otherwise, there's so many new vocals that are...pitiful haha.

 

But if you're comparing him to male idols OVERALL, then no, Jaehwan is far from the best.

Edited March 23, 2018 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

I wanted to ask people in this thread, do you guys naturally have a register or an area in your voice where it's just REALLY easy to sing in? Not necessarily supporting, but just keeping great ease and connection there.

 

Like, as a baritone, I find it weird how idols like NCT's Jaehyun or BTS' V or the likes, have so much trouble keeping a full tone below C3. Or even like, 2PM's Junho or Sungjae, have trouble below Bb2. I mean, my voice has always naturally been able to reach until around C#2, but I'm like 15 lol.

 

Also, for head voice, so many struggle to connect even a little bit but I basically can just casually sing around F5.

 

That being said, I struggle the hell out for mixed voice while all of the ones that I mentioned could belt out D4s effortlessly but when I do it, it sounds like Fergie's National Anthem.

 

So I was wondering if you guys had any register that was rather natural to sing in and I wonder if it comes from our long time habits from when we just speak?

[ZRH23]

I'm not saying all these notes are supported, just that it's easy to sing in this range, lol. But, I don't know if it's because I listened to a lot of Tarja Turunen during puberty and tried imitating her or what, but I can sing really effortlessly in head voice until about the start of the 6th octave.

But, like you, I have trouble mixing really well. I've gotten support in my mix until F#4, and that's taken a while for me to do. I can get inconsistent G4s at the moment. I can hit the notes in head voice, but I do have trouble actually mixing and bridging that gap between the registers.

For the lower, I don't really have any trouble until I start getting below G#2. So, I guess I would say my consistent supported range is somewhere close to G#2 to F#4. Which doesn't really mean much, I guess.

When I first started, I was really big on trying to be able to belt and predominately utilized a really chesty approach, but I've been trying to lighten it up over the past year or so and have seen my supported range go up a note or so.

I had a coach when I was in China, and he really discouraged the chestier sounds I had. He actually advocated a headier style of mixing, though.

Actually his example for me was this guy:

Ooof, what v\are you again? Tenor or baritone? And yes, I so relate to the head voice thing! Not until the 6th octave but I can maintain it until at least A5. F5, without strain. And considering that last year, I could barely do a falsetto, I'd say it is a huge improvement lol

 

They have trouble for obvious reasons like not developing enough their chest and being in an industry full of tenors focusing mainly on mixing , also i'm sure they can reach the low 2nd octave any baritone have ease down there by nature it just some complicate it more than it need to be . jaehyun haven't really show his full range if you think about it

 

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Well, yeah, Jaehyun sure hasn't showed his full range. But considering he makes C3 sound low for a baritone (it's not, it's like E3 for a tenor) and his A2's are basically air, it doesn't matter if he can barely reach F2. It's still quite underdeveloped.

[ZRH23]

I could be, especially after what you said about Beyoncé but no I'm not skeptical, just curious. I only know two baritones who can support F#4s so I'm quite surprised at the fact that you can too.

When everybody sticks up to Beyonce so much, I feel like cringing lol. I love her, but it's not he is wrong about her. I disagree on some parts but you can't deny that Beyonce has her fair share of problems vocally. She's way too chesty at times which brings a long list of troubles and she's not too consistent at the top or bottom of her "supported" range.

 

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[ZRH23]

 

 

I acknowledge Beyoncé flaws and I know that she's not a perfect "excellent" vocalist (well nobody is anyway): her consistency below D3/Eb3 is quite questionable and she is not quite comfortable in it, her mixed voice is well good, she has a full and consistent support up to D5/Eb5. Her mixed voice could be more balanced yes but her placement is really great. I honestly think she doesn't support consistently enough above the Eb5/E5 area, and even some of her "supported" F5s have tension which makes her consistent supported vocal range to be somewhere around Eb3~E5. However her head voice is great, no doubt that she has C6s under her belt. A long list of troubles ? I'd like to hear those because really the only big issue she has is being too chesty. I honestly think JoJo and Beyoncé are really even in the mixed voice range. I have the right to be doubtful because this user mislabelled some Beyoncé note the other time.

I don't think that any of the things you listed down about Beyonce's flaws is any different than what KoreaXXLove said lol. If somebody mislabeled notes, then thats just a matter of a minor mistake. So exactly, what's the things to be doubtful about lol?

 

And being too chesty brings the long lists of troubles indeed. Mainly how she can really push out her voice a bit too much, and her approach is not only very chesty, it's aggressive. So the chances of her having clean notes above Eb5 is 50/50. Other than that, the heaviness of her approach does limit her legato quite a bit. She's just a bit too heavy to sing anything more smoothly. Even ballads like Resentment and Ave Maria, she has a bit of a heavy approach so she's not entirely smooth on the phrases.

 

But she has shown that she can change it up a bit in I Will Always Love You, for example. But her main consistent style isn't the healthiest.

 

I do think you misead by comment. I meant, Bey being chesty brings trouble for her, not that she has a long lists of trouble other than her chestiness.

Jojo... She's very similar indeed. But Beyonce has better placement in her upper belts, and I'd argue that her F5s, on the majority, are quite supported. Her E5s haven't been showcased well cuz I always see the E5 from Ring The Alarm being used and yeah, that's throaty. But... That's mostly stylistic to the song, I mean, have you heard the rest of the song? It's a very rough song. Anyways, her having tension on E5/F5 isn't too much of a problem. Whitney and Mariah had problems with F#5/G5 too.

 

But Jojo has a worse head register. Beyonce's is definitely currently one of the best in western pop.

 

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[ZRH23]

How good are Celine Dion runs?

From what I heard, they're pretty good in terms of accuracy. But they're mostly a bunch of trills or pitch scales. And they can be messy when it comes to arrangement. I'd say if they were planned out, there shouldn't be any problems. But when she improvises, then the pitch problem comes. Overall, pretty good but not like, Tori Kelly or Jojo level.

 

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[ZRH23]

I've been looking through Beyonce's videos during the The On The Run tour and Mrs. Carter tour and damn! I found good gems!

 

 

 

She did the F5 like in the studio version instead of the usual riff and she SLAYED! I think it's definitely supported with good placement, though pushing and growling are there a bit.

 

 

 

2.20, she did the right but with a different vowel and without growls. Oof, I love this F5, very good production. I'd say it's resonant or at least supported with nice placement. Nicer mixing too.

 

 

 

7.06, damn Eb5! She's showing a more lighter approach here and I love it lol. Definitely one of her best Eb5s.

 

 

 

7.40, same thing here!

 

https://youtu.be/p8zyTeFKK34

 

5.50, same thing here! She's showing nice consistency.

 

 

 

2.04, same thing here. All separate performances but very consistent quality in them. If Beyonce just lightens her mix like this often, her issues shouldn't be much really. This has lovely resonance.

 

 

 

2.14, nice C#3 though it was supposed to be soft. 2.55, pushed E5 but still relatively supported with good placement. That's the style anyways. 3.20, love this C#3!

 

 

2.40, again, nice C#3!

 

3.50, so many golden moments! C#3 again.

 

3.03, nice C#3 again!

 

 

2.52 - 3.02, very full approach around Eb3.

 

https://youtu.be/VzdwYkDD7O8

 

All are fantastic but I love the C6 in 1.00. i dont think she thins in her upper range.

 

 

1.00 - 1.23. THOSE C5 WTF

 

 

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1.00 - 1.23. THOSE C5 WTF

 

 

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So, this is all very interesting and I would like some clarification on whether these Beyonce C5s above would be counted as lowered larynx? I realise that it could be confused with the sound system but the first one was pretty clear and she sounded like she carried much more depth than she'd usually do.

 

Compared to her Halo Eb5 or Somewhere Over The Rainbow C5, which were all very bright and light, these C5s were much fuller and darker. I've so far only seen her do this on this song and Take My Hand. And maybe Ave Maria. But C#5 is the limit to this kind.

 

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have you guys seen Beyonce recent head voice @MR C.Y what you think ?

Click here to view the Tweet

Oof, she was definitely going for a more darker approach with that one. I don't know if it was at all opera-style but I do think the highest note there, A5 or Bb5, was dropping a bit of support. It sounds like she's tired though, and maintaining that kind of placement up there instead of her usual bright one might be a little uncomfortable for her. I saw her B5 in I Care and it's fine, bright but resonant. 

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https://youtu.be/eKrDvTDnqew

 

This is a better note for Bey!

 

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I have weird question but its bothering me for a while. Is it harder to belt high notes or sing actual lines in high pitch. Since my bby can go pretty high when she is doing highnotes only. But when singing lines in high pitch she sound off or lipsync... And tbh shes not the only one, saw many idols like this.

I suppose it's harder to sing actual lines in high pitch. Depends on what you mean by it. I assume you mean when the whole line is in a relatively high range and not just a phrase, For example, Heartshaker by Twice is actually... a challenging song for their calibre. Considering the majority of the chorus phrases Eb5s and F5s. But just belting one out would probably take less effort and stamina, depends on how long you belt it.

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Can someone tell how soyou did overall in these videos?

 The first video, Hug me, that was really low lol. The lowest was C#3, before the second chorus. But during the verses, she didn't do too badly. G#3s were nice and F#3s kept tone. The G#4s in the chorus were supported and she doesn't sound as nasal as before. But her placement is still not very forward. 4.11, it got worse as she sustained the B4. Nasal, I guess there's support but it's kinda tight.

 

Second video, not a lot to comment about. Ahmin had said a few things tho. 2.56, A4/G#4 (?), I like that! That one moment, she was much forward, I think, I wish she retained that projection.

 

Third video, B4s have tension and support, anything higher is shallow. That guy has much better mixing than her lmao. I think his C#5 is better,

 

does rosé have the worst technique in blackpink

 

 

Maybe? But Lisa hasn't really sung enough to be someone to compare to. If we exclude her then yes, most likely.

She's not lol. Are you guys forgetting Jisoo? And Jennie is not really better than Rose.

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I don't see how Jisoo is worse than Rose? Like none of them are really far away from each other, but Jisoo and Jennie can at least sing in a relaxed manner. Rose has become practically incapable of this since she's been at YG, she almost always strains, practically doesn't have a comfortable area of her voice, and always has that weird tension.

 

 

They go for style instead of technique. It's short-sighted since the kind of 'training' YG gives wrecks your voice long-term, but they don't seem to really care about most of their artists anyway, especially not the female ones, so I can imagine they don't give a shit and just milk them for what they're worth when they're young and then throw them away when they get older, like 2ne1.

Actually, Rosé has the most relaxed approach in BP. True, they're not far from each other but the gap is still there. Rosé can have a degree of support up around A4 and sometimes Bb4, though it is usually shallow. That weird tension is mostly nasality. She's just very, very nasal. But the sense of support is there, somewhat.

 

Jisoo on the other hand, has no support in her approach. Like, at all. It's all from the throat and very shallow. The way you describe Rose is actually suitable for Jisoo.

 

Jennie is better in the sense that she's not nasal and has a better attempt to support than the other two but she's very pushy. Her legato is chopped up because of this. I'd say it's Rose≥ Jennie> Jisoo.

 

I mean, I could show some vids to prove my point.

Looks like Soyou lower register is same as Hyolyn.

 

The guy in the last two is Ha Hyunwoo(?), the music commander.

I wouldn't say it's the same, Soyou's is not good as Hyolyn's. But it's a matter of 1 semitone difference though Hyolyn is also much more consistent and better at supporting in general.

 

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Ah well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I simply hear different things than you haha for me it's Jennie>Jisoo≥Rose

But really the difference is quite miniscule and they don't have that many good examples for analysis so honestly there's not too much point in ranking them imo. Honestly I could say they're pretty much all equal because the fact that Rose has shallow support sometimes is pretty much cancelled out by her nasality to me. I'd like to see her do that exercise where you sing with your nose blocked and see how different she sounds, because I have a feeling she's not just overly nasal as in too much twang but is actually also singing nasally.

Honestly, Rosé also talks like that...like...she's a cuter, nicer sounding version of Kermit lol.

 

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