Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[ZRH23]

 

 

Barbra IS better than Beyonce, and that was an accepted fact until someone started making false claims about her a few months ago. Barbra has long been held as a standard in contemporary vocal technique, and it's still true. Barbra is really something else. I won't even go into how good she is (because I don't want people to act like I'm saying she's untouchable. I'm not.), but just comparing her to Beyonce, her approach is a lot healthier. Her technique is a lot more consistent. Her pitch is leagues better. Beyonce can use a very aggressive and very chesty approach at times that just really isn't that good. Her lows can be very unstable in phrases, and the number of very good mixed notes she has in her upper register is very few.

Beyonce stans tend to make her out to be more than she is by saying she's "operatic" or "semi operatic" or that she's got "dynamics second only to opera singers" and a "great coloratura" when, in reality, none of that's true. She's a good singer, but her truly impressive moments are in a minority, and I've never understood the hype about her.

Barbra has long been held as a standard in contemporary vocal technique? She's rarely been mentioned unless it's got something to do with Broadway and theatrics and all that. Not saying that she's not worth the mention or the standard, it's just that I don't hear people talk about her as a example standard to uphold since they can barely correlate her style and preferences to those of the pop.

 

Like I said, your criteria is certainly different and you focus more on the certain range of a vocalist and their development there rather than the whole voice by itself. So if most people dont truly agree with the sort of criteria that you do, then it's not really a fact. I am not saying only the blog's criteria is the one that should be used universally...it's not lol. But that is the kind of criteria that I incline to and I simply do not here the magical support and dynamics Barbra seems to have cuz even though she is really good in a certain range that is still quite wide, it's simply not something unheard of among pop artists and are mostly contributed to style anyways since pop songs have much less demands on legato and dynamics, That's partly the reason why, I think, that even some Kpop stars doing theaters and musicals stuff tend to have better moments than the ones they have in their actual pop music. Though that's more of a speculation anyways.

 

'Beyonce can use a very aggressive and very chesty approach at times that just really isn't that good.'

 

Yeah, her mix -especially in more recent years- has gotten rather chesty and she growls most things out. That being said, she rarely if ever, strains them. And for a good number of times, we've seen her having the capabilities to change her mix as well and get rid of the growl, which isn't really a bad thing in the first place, and the note is resonant.

 

'Her pitch is leagues better.'

 

I've seen Beyonce fall off pitch quite a number of times. But I've also seen Barbra do so as well and though she has the more extensive career (Bey's been at it for like 20 years now anyways) I dont find much change in her technique except that her voice seemed to have gotten lower with age. Barbra's pitch is quite a bit better, yes, but not by leagues or any means.

 

'Her lows can be very unstable in phrases,'

 

I dont hear this problem with Beyonce, or haven't heard anyways. I'd appreciate it if you send me links of it.

I dont agree with most people saying that she supports until C3 consistently...since there's truly only one or two C3s that could be supported and the others she avoids lol. But C#3 has moments and off moments But D3 and up, she certainly has got it down. And as Far as I've heard of Barbra (ive heard a lot tbh of her performances), she doesn't have much development down there, as a soprano nor a mezzo. For her to compare with Beyonce, Barbra should have at least E3 but her supports only starts one note higher than that, F#3. We hear that problem a lot, especially in a song like Memory where her low notes, even though has a lot of tone, is essentially not solid and doesn't have enough support in them. Beyonce has nice support consistently down to C#3/D3. A few off moments doesn't count honestly.

 

'the number of very good mixed notes she has in her upper register is very few.'

 

Hm, especially in her last comeback, Beyonce has preferred to growl out most notes above Eb and while that's not necessarily bad, it's not really worth showcasing. Whether this is a stylistic choice still remains a question because she still for a number of times maintain good resonance on F5s. But you've also heard Beyonce having 'tense' notes very often that I nor most people dont really hear. But whatever. In the mix area, Barbra is more consistent and healthy above Eb5, though Barbra doesn't have the ability to truly sing other than with a heady mix above that point, it is still healthier than Bey's approach. But keeping in mind that they're different fachs, it's like when Barbra sings F5 and up, and that is the area where she loses her consistency too so in that view, there's not much difference in development.

 

But there are still many things that the one can do but the other cannot, in this case. Barbra has one of the most beautiful dynamics and Beyonce isn't just child's play when it comes to dynamics but she doesn't show them as much or as good as Barbra.

 

But when it comes to head voice, Beyonce's is quite a bit more developed than Barbra. Barbra has...what? Bb5 maybe? And Beyonce has at least C6, as a mezzo at that. Her head voice is probably the true highlight of Bey's right now and really, there's no competition with Barbra when it comes to this. Especially in her latest comeback.

 

Runs. We know who's better at this. But then again, Beyonce is an RnB artist (more or less) and Barbra a theater type. Of course Barbra won't have the agility Bey has, it's simply unnecessary for her singing style anyways. The same way Beyonce isn't as good in dynamics as with Barbra, cuz RnB doesn't call for the same dynamics.

 

All in all, there's quite a few things Beyonce has over Barbra and vice versa. Low notes, Head voice, Runs. All in Bey's repertoire. Support, dynamics and mix, all in Barbra's case. If you look at that way, there's no true winner really.

 

I really dont want to argue about this because I think it's pointless. But I...need to control myself more lol. Obviously, we have set in mind of the answer to this and I dont know Barbra as much as Beyonce and you dont know Beyonce as much as you know Barbra. And if we're going to take the time to educate each other of all the things we do know...that's exhausting lol. So let's just rest this case. Barbra is better, according KoreaXXLove though case has been and is arguable and opinions differ. Case closed lmao.

Barbra IS better than Beyonce, and that was an accepted fact until someone started making false claims about her a few months ago. Barbra has long been held as a standard in contemporary vocal technique, and it's still true. Barbra is really something else. I won't even go into how good she is (because I don't want people to act like I'm saying she's untouchable. I'm not.), but just comparing her to Beyonce, her approach is a lot healthier. Her technique is a lot more consistent. Her pitch is leagues better. Beyonce can use a very aggressive and very chesty approach at times that just really isn't that good. Her lows can be very unstable in phrases, and the number of very good mixed notes she has in her upper register is very few.

Beyonce stans tend to make her out to be more than she is by saying she's "operatic" or "semi operatic" or that she's got "dynamics second only to opera singers" and a "great coloratura" when, in reality, none of that's true. She's a good singer, but her truly impressive moments are in a minority, and I've never understood the hype about her.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

There are several things wrong with your analysis of Barbra, and I'll delineate with a bit.

I know that F#3 is where the support ends (if you could provide anything else, in her younger days mind you, that she can do CONSISTENTLY than I'd be happy to hear). I know that her head voice isn't anything stellar as well. Her mix area, I'm not too familiar with but I know that she's heady which is not bad by any means and her pitch issues, although present, is still better than Bey's.

 

Unless you're talking about the lower register and the head voice part, please dont take the time to clarify much. I already know that she does the other parts better (especially her dynamics and overall support).

 

sent from your mom.

Edited January 1, 2018 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

 

 

Briefly,

1. She supports lower than F#3

2. She changes her mixing style until at least F5

3. Her pitch is very good, especially when younger. Barbra rarely deviates from the center, but no one is perfect. She's 75 now, so not what it used to be.

4. Bey has been tense as low as F#5 in HV.

5. Barbra has very good agility. Not like Bey, but very good. It's not a weakness.

6. Barbra controls her phrasing throughout her registers better because she has clearer passagio points.

7. Barbra was the standard before we were born or this thread thought of. She's just not our generation or close to it.

1. Okay, perhaps, though I haven't heard it. I dont believe it to be necessarily better than Bey's anyways.

 

2. Yeah, I know. But I was assuming that Bey's Eb = Barbra's F anyways, since they're different types. But that may not be true.

 

4. Beyonce barely does any proper HV notes under G5. I've never really heard any tenseness in her HV in 2016, anyways. BTW, that Emotions C6. Yeah, not the best at all lol. I wish people would stop using that in videos since... Really, she's had far better.

 

7. I suppose.

 

 

In your last reply bout Beyonce, mainly the Halo parts, I disagree with a few of the mix problems and one or two bout her lower register, but otherwise...yeah. That third performance you linked was...thats quite bad compared to her usually showcased abilities. But Halo has really been questionable with all it's renditions anyways though I'm not dismissing it.

 

I disagree mainly bout the mix parts though I see where youre coming from.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

Happy New Year~

 

You're the only one who would put it like that

 

So, quick question:

 

How do you feel about the F5 and Bb5? It's really funny to contrast them with the notes that follow directly after each lol

 

 

 

 

I don't support voice typing with contemporary singers, but 1) I'm fairly certain Full Lyric isn't an actual voice type 2) I don't think Eunji is just some form of bigger lyric either, but I'm not an expert so for all I know she's doing some next things and has that sort of size to her voice despite being bright and light

 

We do have different things we look for in singing, so you're free to be unsatisfied I would agree that Hyorin's Halo C#5 was unsatisfactory, though lol.

 

Eunji's, Luna's, Taeyeon's, and Yuju's clips are resonant, I guess. I personally just don't like very many contemporary singers in the fifth octave that much. There are lots of singers who can handle themselves fine up there, but me liking it is a different story

 

Example C#5s that I do like

 

5:56 Lara Fabian's sustained C#5

 

 

4:17 Natalie Weiss's C#5 at the end of the line

 

 

Sohyang's C#5 2:43

 

 

Whitney's C#5 and D5 at 4:06

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ac1kw

 

 

 

Oh yeah, the C#5s you like are ...XD.

Doesnt compare it to Kpop idols much lol.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

 

From this video, I give Barbra Eb3 and up. She lowered her larynx sometimes after that, but not that much. Most of the notes Eb3 and up here are pretty good.

 

Barbra can phrase a line down to F3 and back up without any break. Check out about 4:20 in the video.

 

13:00 - Start here for Barbra's mixing styles.

 

For the record, I'm not pulling my information from the video, but I do agree with this part. 13:22 has a particularly balanced F5. 14:37, pretty balanced note for Barbra. G5 at that. I didn't like her F#5 at about 14:00, but you can see the majority of these notes are supported, and she does display the ability to play with her mix as high as G5. 14:50 - 15:00, she mixes the two G5 phrases completely differently.

 

 

 

For the record, I think a "stellar" mezzo in pop sounds like this:

 

0:49 - 1:06, look at how smooth her legato is and how fluidly she phrases between her registers. Also listen to her dynamics. She doesn't push to achieve a crescendo at 1:03. She has complete control over what she's doing.

1:16 - she smoothly switches into a higher dynamic level. Again, no pushing. No effort. No forced vibrato or extra chest or extra air. Her tone is very clear.

3:25 - 3:35 - crazy phrasing and dynamics. This is harder to do than simply mix a supported E5.

3:35 - 3:43 - look how she phrases down into her lower again. She loses no support or clarity. It's smooth. It's the opposite for Beyonce. We also don't hear her gasping for breath. Her breathing technique is masterful.

 

That's not all. I just wanted to point out that there are different benchmarks for singing, and someone like Beyonce hasn't got this much control over her voice.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jstnjayQYVY

 

The phrase starting at 5:16 is beautiful and culminates in a very resonate C5 at 5:23.She's at least 64 here. Healthy technique allows you to preserve the voice like this. And if you think C5 isn't that high, why does Beyonce have trouble sometimes?

Hm, that is interesting. Barbra's low notes does sound nice there but there are quite a few moments when she dropped the larynx around E3/Eb3 and most of the good ones are from when she's older, when she's a mezzo. Okay...I'd definitely give Barbra F3 tho...not sure about the other two notes. Her mix for F5 and above are very questionable. I really like that F5 at 13.15, that was nice. But some of them are really...weird sounding lol. It might be for the style but it's...not very good. The more balanced mix one could've been better.

The sustained G5 was nice but again, the phrased ones afterwards were...hm. I don't think it's enough to say she has G5 under her belt because I've only heard that one nice G5...everytime lol. F#5 also is questionable. But yes, her mixing can be very nice up there. 

 

The mezzo that you linked too, her voice seemed to be placed lower than Bey's tbh but I don't know much about those things. I'm gonna be honest and say that I really don't hear anything that is outstanding about her. There's moments where she still lowered her larynx, Her support is really nice and her dynamics are nice too but nothing that I would call so special. Plus, I'd say a mezzo supporting an E5 is considerably more impressive than phrasing like that but then again, this might all well be a matter of perspective and I believe we know to agree to disagree with that.

 

Beyonce was very inconsistent until around the 2007 (?) era. The one with that Beyonce Experience Tour. I haven't heard Beyonce struggle on a C5 much and definitely not strain them or anything. Halo does seem to bring out the worst in her though. 

 

 

 

7.14, one of my favorite C5 of hers. This was more recently (for her anyways) and she is more than capable producing this sort of resonance,

 

 

 

3.20, that is a beautiful crescendo, especially by Bey's standards. There's some nice C5s throughout too and the low notes are great.

 

 

 

1.35-1.40, that's some nice phrasing down there, Eb3. 

 

 

 

1.34, growled F5 but that was really good too. Just to give you some good sides of hers,

This thread is the pits. Beyoncé is an excellent vocalist and she got all of you pressed ! @ koreaxxlove aren't you the user who thought that LSH was better than SoHyang ? That explains a lot.

 

 

He is. He also made that LSH analysis video that is honestly almost hilarious. Don't bother arguing with him, he hears whatever he wants to hear, when he wants to hear it.

This is unwarranted lol. We might disagree but it is not right to say that everything he says is wrong. I mean, Ahmin and a few others also had the..'dark times' and all that. But we're all passed that now. KoreaXXLove brings up nice arguments with good proof though we all might have different prespectives.

[ZRH23]

The C5 was good. I didn't hear much of a crescendo in "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." Not really impressed with that even though the note is okay. The phrasing there is good. If she were this consistent down here, I wouldn't have much of an issue with her lower. The phrases are still really punctuated without much legato, though. It's fine for her genre, but it's lacking in control what YHE has. Better than Bey's usual, though. She usually speaks notes like this.

I'm not much a fan of growled notes, but there is support in that.

I still stand by my belief that Bey has shown good vocal ability but lacks the consistency and discipline needed to be considered "stellar." We still have too many tense mixed notes and notes below the F3/E3 range that lack adequate support. Not to mention her pitch problems. I'm not trying to take away from what she does well, but I'm not sold on her either.

Barbra, however, has solid support solid support from F3 to G#5 with the ability to support lower (but not as well) until about d#3. That's amazing for a soprano, and that's not even taking into account what she can do in that range. Excellent pitch, excellent dynamics, excellent breath support (I mean who else is belting resonant C#5s for 19 seconds?). Barbra favors a heady approach to the upper mix, and this thread makes it out to be a bad thing, but it's not. Compared to people like Aretha and Patti (from a similar time) or people before her like Ethel Merman or Mahalia Jackson, Barbra has a very healthy mix. I think there's the belief that her mix is uncoordinated to the degree that it isn't supported, but that's because people here really favor a balanced mix. But Barbra's mix IS supported even when it's not balanced. There's no lack of coordination because she's not going for a balanced mix mostly and has balanced it as high as F5 really well. Her mid range sounds healthier and more resonant compared to the same notes in Bey's range, and that should be Bey's tessitura. She should shine there. But she doesn't when you compare her level of resonance and dynamic control with more elite singers like Barbra or YHE. I'll admit Bey has better agility, but that's about the only area I see a clear advantage over Barbra.

G#5 for Barbra? Okay yeah, that's where we could disagree lol.

 

 

I honestly think it's refreshing to hear another point of view. Sometimes frustrating, but overall interesting. I mean, it's not like he brought out completely ridiculous arguments. Believing Internet's supported range for Beyonce without much research is...dangerous lol.

I definitely won't give her C3, she's only done one really good ones and lots of bad ones. C#3/D3 would be good, but her presence in the Lower range is rather small compared to Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus. She's kinda like Jojo in her lower range. I don't think her legato and dynamics is shoddy, just not as good as someone who focuses on theater/classical pop. Her mix can be questionable but I've heard bad moments from Barbra too, where her vibrato goes haywire and lose support at sustained notes. But that just proves everybody has off moments. Bey's head is pretty impeccable tho. She does C6-D6 better than most contemporary vocalist right now (even Natalie Weiss) and she's a mezzo at that. Plus with her runs and riffs, she's pretty much well rounded.

 

Whether she's better than so and so, that's a lot to argue with. I'd definitely say Barbra has F3-F5/F#5 (since G5 isnt shown enough and G#5 are just exclamations) until Bb5 in head voice. But she's usually consistent in that range and has very nice control and dynamics. So either way,they're both amazing vocalists.

 

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[ZRH23]

I’ve been a lurker these past few days and I noticed that vowel shaping is really considered as an advantage among vocalists.

 

Since we’re in a K-pop forum, I’d like to know if these are good examples of vowel shaping:

 

Taeyeon

 

2:51

 

 

2:18

 

 

Yuju

 

0:18

 

Of course it is! Vowel shaping can be major trouble for vocalists. All the videos you showed has the 'Ah' vowel, the easiest to mix in really. Yuju for instance, has trouble resonating and being open on any vowel but Ah really lol.

 

I honestly never thought of this comparaison lol I'm quite surprised, I didn't know that I sounded like him but whatever, I like his voice so thanks ! The vocal thread is not really active nowadays so idk but I'll do some covers just for the fun. Maybe a collab if someone wants to. ^-^

I saw your comments plenty of time and I'm like, DIS HO-

 

I'm so freaking jealous lol. It took me a year to actually improve and I'm still not supporting very well. G2/F#2- C#4/D4- C#5 would be my comfort zone (not necessarily supported mind you) but I guess thats okay for now. Well, I'm a baritone too and a collab sounds fun, but you'll probably drown me in resonance and projection. Unless I hold the mic literally on my lips...or eat it lol.

 

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[ZRH23]

Fair enough, lol. I haven't listened to much of Barbra's head voice, to be honest. I feel like she doesn't really use it all that much. I think I've heard her support in the 6th octave, but I can't recall if it were live or if she's done it enough to call it consistent, lol.

I definitely wouldn't give Beyonce below D#3, but I think we can agree to disagree on that. Thanks for taking the time to actually discuss.

If a 40 minute vocal range video and a 20 minute detailed vocal technique one doesn't show anything than an exclamation on C6, idk what will XD. You'll have to dig through a wholeeeee lotta stuff. and yeah, Barbra rarely uses head voice at all.

 

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[ZRH23]

What do you guys think about Demi? What was her supported range in 2017? It sounded to me like she supported up to Bb4/B4/C5 and down to G3/A3.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfRN0hBi6ww

 

Demi is still highly inconsistent and frankly, there's not much difference to her technique. B4 supported. Maybe C5 here and there for her. But her placement has gone awry from as low as G4. A3 would be the lowest she supports.

Speaking about Ailee's vowel shaping, I'm not that surprised about the whininess & weird shaping of syllables is the way it is bc she's from New Jersey & has a slight accent when she speaks......I grew up in the South (Georgia specifically), so I can hear that people in NJ seem to pronounce vowels with a closed throat

 

It's odd bc when she did the Les Mis cover, her vowels were much more open, but I think it was bc she was trying to imitate the shaping that classical/music theatrical singers have:

 

 

 

Tbh, even Jojo mentioned how she changed the way she spoke because of her vocal training....Jojo's also from the Northern US/New England area, so she had a regional way of speaking:

 

https://youtu.be/uIzomcVxe8c?t=25

 

At 0:30, she kinda talks about it & I see a similarity with Ailee bc she's also very shouty/yelly these days whenever she speaks (even at concerts, which is a no-no).

What's odd about this is that Ailee doesn't have much of a New Jersey accent when she...yknow, actually speak English. At least i don't hear it?

 

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[ZRH23]

It really is no coincidence that all the "excellent" singers know how to shape their vowels really well. The examples are fine enough. Vowel shapes can be described in sizes from small(tight) to large (tall/round). If you were to ask me, I guess Yuju's clip > Taeyeon's Lost in Love Clip > Taeyeon's Holler clip with small arrows since they could all be bigger. It's not as though they were singing particularly small, but they could also sing with a bigger dynamic if they wanted to go for that sort of larger/ more "resonant" sound. Ailee's Weekly Idol clip linked below contrasted with the 1:56 C5 of the One Night Only is an example of how you can go from a small vowel shape to a larger/taller/rounder/better vowel shape, which allows a bigger sound to be possible with other things involved.

li

 

 

 

 

Making use of this tea to post videos

 

Spoiler to avoid block of videos

 

 

 

0:49 Her C#5s in this area are much less whiny than what she does now. Interestingly, from the C5 @ 1:56 she starts singing closer to how she sings now, so I guess the way she sings now was a bad habit in the making from back then already 

 

 

C5s/C#5s>>>>> at 1:30 and 2:58. 3:56 she's, again, closer to how she sings these days tho. 4:36 scalped me when I first heard her in 2012 and still does tho

 

 

0:20  ~ 0:38 some of the best I can remember Ailee singing from vowel shaping to coordination to health/condition

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it should be the hardest thing to do. It's not like she has to re-develop anything. Everything is developed well-enough and she just has to be taught which sounds, that she already has done/does every so often, are good and to stick to producing to those kinds of sounds. She does want to sing in a big diva way, clearly, but the general Kpop technique is honestly not going to work for the kind of sound she's trying to have

And Yuju/Taeyeon have generally larger resonance than most Kpop Idols too so I guess that's why Ailee's mix is positively praised, since she has really, really nice resonance in G4-C5 (C#5 sometimes). Yuju was pushing it out in the clip though, yet she was booming lol. Oh I wished she stayed that way, now she'd strain that note.

 

But why does Ailee's weird vowel thing start only (mostly) in the fifth octave? She still has that really large resonance below C5 and on that sometimes.

 

 

 

2.34 was really nice but all the other C5s in this is whiny lol,

[ZRH23]

Hi guys I'm really really curious and I need you guys to help me 

 

How are these 2 powerful F5 notes from KBS The Unit?

 

2:15 by Heejin. 2:27 by Yeoeun.  Thank you very much~ >_<

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sUdqil4qPQ

Well, it's F5 so the chances of them supporting it is...low.

 

But it's not too bad. 2.15, that wasn't too bad. The mixing was quite nice actually, there's high larynx and obvious tension though. But it's not as bad as i expected lol. Do you have any videos of this girl singing below F5? Maybe C5/C#5? The one at 2.27, that was worse.

[ZRH23]

Well, it's F5 so the chances of them supporting it is...low.

 

But it's not too bad. 2.15, that wasn't too bad. The mixing was quite nice actually, there's high larynx and obvious tension though. But it's not as bad as i expected lol. Do you have any videos of this girl singing below F5? Maybe C5/C#5? The one at 2.27, that was worse.

Hm, never mind. I listened to it more and I realized that the mixing wasn't very nice lmao. Well, it's strained. Anyways, I searched for the girl's videos, it doesn't seem like she could support at all lol.

[ZRH23]

I hope you didnt search her k5 superstar videos, her vocals worsened that time due to overexertion, and that was like 4 years ago.

 

I didn't realized that was strained. Thought strained belts will have that thin sound.

 

Anyway, I will come back with her more recent vids

I searched for her videos in The Unit. She sang Twinkle by TTS and I Will Go To You Like The First Snow by Ailee, both of them sounded pretty underwhelming. She sounded shallow. I can't listen to the videos you linked but I'll get to them when i have time.

 

I'm honestly worried that she's on the path to regression, her voice is a lot more fatigued & pushed than ever before. I know her voice isn't everyone's cup of tea, but she's skilled & it would be a shame if she lost her voice. :(

 

I don't think she'll ever get a proper vocal coach/training if she stays with her currently company (YMC), they don't even update her schedules or provide her with decent styling. They overworked her back to back in 2016 & 2017, so that's partially why she never really got that much vocal rest.

I know right? I hate it when idols regress or have off seasons (not even moments, but seasons lol) because of overworking. I mean, I'm gonna keep holding Yuju now as a main example of regression through overworking and lack of training. She went from resonating her C#5s in 2015 with nice roundnes, to supporting C#5 with occasional resonance in 2016 and straight to straining C#5s in 2017 with inconsistent support that has tension. Not to mention she pretty much went to Ailee's school of weird diction and vowel shaping too so that aint helping. Ailee's last performance had an F5 that i think had more tension than support and she is dangerously fatigued now even in relatively low songs for her, around C5/C#5. i hope they both can recover and continue to slay people.

Lol everyone can improve, and I'm sure you will ! And your comfortable range is good actually but y'know it's just the technique that matters. I was comfortable up to F5 before but it was strained with a high larynx and everything... So just make sure the notes you produce in this range are healthy, and work on your mix !

 

Don't worry, my voice isn't that good, I have my on and off moments too. On the bad days, my mix is chesty and somewhat throaty, I'm an inconsistent mess. And my mic is an voice recorder app so .... Yup lol

Oh yeah i dont strain in my comfortable range. I don't lower my larynx in the lower notes (unless it's D2/C#2) and i start straining on Eb4 (when sustained at least). My head voice is okay up to D5 but the support just isnt steady yet but at least it's connected and placed correctly. Im just a little shallow in my singing, but im pretty close to supporting properly, i think. Let's hear my C#4 by next week, maybe they're supported then lol.

G#2-C#4/D4-C#5...seems pretty well rounded so I'll be satisfied with that lol.

 

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[ZRH23]

Yuju covering Ailee

 

Oh, that's nice! I didnt think she was capable at resonating in an 'Aye' vowel, nice job Yuju! The E5 was still strained but hey, it was brighter.

besides the Halo video (still the main thing I would like you to watch)

 

for the Jackpot performance she did the same note during rehearsals @ 2:38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Q4iPD8U8k

 

I think the twinkle one was made to stylistically sound like the original Twinkle, while the Ailee cover was her being extra nervous and out of breath after covering a dance song.

Omg, I can't watch it for some reason.. I'll search more later.

 

Twinkle was stylistic? Lol, the original Twinkle was sung with support throughout (except for the hell F#5s) , considering the 3 vocalists who sang supports decently. So...

 

And being out of breath isn't supposed to make her THAT shallow, if she knew how to support properly. I mean...

 

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[ZRH23]

G3 is a very standard low note for a good soprano to be able to sing though?? Like I'm pretty sure F3 or F#3 is where a trained soprano should be able to sing down to? As a soprano, that's what I've heard from many teachers.

It's how well she sings the note, not what not it is. Name three other sopranos doing that on G3, lol. It's just not normal. You focus too much on what note it is and not the quality of the note.

G3 is already quit good if it really supported for a soprano F3 is more than trained for me a soprano who support that low is considered very developed chest/low range wise

 

 

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KoreaXXLove, you kinda misunderstood JStarfully's first reply lol. But okay...

 

If we're talking about sopranos nowadays...of course it would be A3/Bb3. But remember, we're also talking about the sopranos that could barely support B4 without some tension, so overall, the standard has gone pretty low.

 

I thought that G3 was lower too! Thats impressive. It reminds me of Beyonce's G3 in I Care, except with overall better projection.

 

A bit off the topic here, but for lower ranges, i definitely think Miley Cyrus should acknowledged. That girl's ease honestly beats most tenors lmao. C#3/C3 sounds very easy for her.

 

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[ZRH23]

I would call Tarja a contemporary singer with a heavy classical background. She rarely sings classical pieces and usually performs rock or metal.

I do agree, though, G3 shouldn't be hard for a trained soprano. With the exception of SoHyang, I can't think of many trained sopranos who really struggle there.

That being said, that G3 is really good, and most contemporary vocalists can't do that.

Classical background...that intrigues me. Like Lara Fabian too. They definitely have a superior sense of projection and resonance and all that stuff. Thats mainly why i never count them as people who could be compared to someone like Mariah or Whitney. They simply are not very pop singers and the styles are very different too. Even Barbra seems like too different of a style, Betty too. But that's just my thought.

Mariah Carey supported down to Eb3/E3 in her prime. I remember Lena Park supporting down to Eb3/E3 too. And U.Ji as well (even if it's not really showed).

 

A supported G3 is nice but don't forget the tonal quality. Eunji and Taeyeon both support down to G3/G#3 but Eunji has a better lower register because she's capable of phrasing stronger and clearer lower notes than Taeyeon, who has issues with nasality and airiness in her lower notes.

 

Honestly G3 is decent and quite nice but F#3 should be the standard for a good Soprano lower range. And D3/Eb3 should be the standard for a mezzo.

Uji has at least E3 consistently. She supported 4 of them in the same song, midphrase. Her lower range is really nice.

 

Taeyeon's G3 is around the same level as Eunji's now, she improved. Plus, Eunji is naturally has a heavier voice. I swear, Taeyeon is one of those vocalists that you could clearly see the work and development she's going through. I honestly think that she'll have Eb5 consistently in her next comeback.

Can't relate since I'm a dude but I believe you. I've made plenty of observations of people who only support down to Bb3/B3 speaking clearly even below G3 in varieties or vlives or wherever. That's the average speaking frequency for adult females. Lower pitches take less muscle strength. I've heard a few F#3s listening to classical songs. There's more that goes into tone beyond 'supported' or 'unsupported' but I assume it's mostly a style, or mental issue, like airy falsetto.

 

adding an example, the thing that might get overlooked is the talking at the end after 4:03. Doesn't this sound normal? It's F#3

 

Ah yes! I noticed this! They talk fine around G3 but when they sing, that area turns into air. Like, tf? But i do think it has something to do with the overall approach and that they haven't properly stretched it down that low, nor are they aware. It's kinda like how we can scream A4 (as males) but we cant really support F4. Or squeal out G5 when a Bb4 in head voice isn't handled.

There's uji, Hayley Williams, Tori, Jimin , Dana and Boa

My point is all those have more than above average low range... G3 is not what most Soprano got again I'm talking about nowdays sopranos. A3/Bb3 is where we hear most sopranos trying to support and this is considered low for a soprano range wise for me G3 is developed having F3 Is quite impressive

 

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I thought Haley Williams was a mezzo?

I was lurking but I was also just watching this video right now, do you think Eunji is capable of supporting lower than that?

 

@26:31

Eunji has a pretty nice lower range with much potential but i haven't seen her support below G3...i think. Id love some clips of her supporting F#3s lol. That one you linked wasn't bad, was it an E3? It had a lowered larynx (not the good way) but it wasn't too bad.

Sopranos with F#3/F3: Ock JooHyun, Barbra Streisand, 韩红, é»„ç»®çŠ (in her prime), Lena Park, Betty Buckley, Tarja Turunen, and Natalie Weiss off the top of my head, lol

Lena Park and Natalie Weiss can support around Eb3/E3. BTW, what's your opinion on Natalie? I've heard her support up to B5 (?) though you could see the difference between her mixing and Sohyang's. Anyways, i have yet to find a...serious flaw to Natalie lol. What do you think?

 

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[ZRH23]

韩红 has C#3 and D3, lol.

Tarja is super classically trained (not opera, though) and she really has a different approach to what we think of as pop. That being said, she doesn't sing classical music (and wouldn't fair too well if she did), and she has spent the last few years developing one of the best chest registers I've ever heard. Maybe some would list her as a "crossover," but I think these distinctions are arbitrary. What do they really mean, exactly?Someone "too good" for pop but not good enough for classical? Contemporary music has a vast range of vocal styles and techniques. Some are healthier than others. Like I personally believe what others call crossover vocalists are just better contemporary vocalists.

About Natalie, I'm not really sure what her biggest flaws would be. She's really good, but I haven't heard any amazing legato or dynamics from her. Not a flaw, but there's more to singing than supporting a wide range with good agility.

Ah yes, that's it. I always find Natalie's singing somewhat... Uneventful? I mean, she's really good. Much more open and resonant than most of the contemporary vocalists these days (yes, better than Beyonce) but it's always... Just a bit bland. Might be my taste but she lacks the dynamics. Im sure she could do it but so far, she sings in a pretty bright and loud way.

I now feel like I have to preface everything I say with: 'I'm a soprano who always had an easy time in my lower register' but I do find it so weird how sopranos struggle to support around the area where they speak. It makes more sense that you would struggle in your higher register because it's really easy to have a bad approach there but for your lower range you really mostly just need to relax and keep your approach the same as before, otherwise you'll have poor sound quality. Plus obviously also actually practicing in it and not just focusing on high notes.

 

Anyway Hayley Williams is definitely a soprano. You may be confusing her with someone else? But the Hayley Williams who is the singer of Paramore is a soprano.

 

By the way is Paramore even a thing anymore?? They lost like three members and now the remaining two members are just Hayley's travelling band or something lmao

No Hayley Is a soprano

 

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I've been misinformed lol. She does sound like a soprano but since I keep seeing people say she's a mezzo, I was conflicted. She's pretty decent, right? As a vocalist. And idk what happened to Paramore. I loved some of their songs tho. Ignorance and Brick By Boring Brick are my jams.

 

It could be stylistic though. I was referring to the F#5s of course. They didn't do the same thing vocally but it sure reminded me of TTS.

 

I mean, I do not know what she had in mind, as ballad singers do plenty of strange stuff with their voices with a style in mind. She could choose not to use proper vocals when trying to do a wobbly vibrato, for example. That's why I only posted videos which I think show her actually trying to do a clean note.

 

Well I shall wait for you to review those videos lol

Well, yeah. That's not stylistic, thats just singing the original song lol.

 

While I'm sure ballad singers have stylistic choices, Ailee and specifically in that song, doesn't. It's supposed to be with supported C5s not strained ones.

She just doesn't really support.

I'll give her a chance when I see the video you linked. I really can't view any videos as of now but tomorrow, I'll surely see it ^^.

 

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[ZRH23]

What about the notes that are "resonant" but with reverb?

 

I like how you listed Whitney in that, yet Whitney does EXACTLY so many right things that are considerably better than every crossover singer (against Lara, Whitney's head voice is considerably better. Perhaps on F5 and F#5 Lara might have had the consistency advantage in what makes both of them good up to that range exceptional -the coordination AND depth necessary with the absence of constrictions) and modern classical singer I could even think of, except I don't know to what degree David Phelps is considered skilled. Patti is neither crossover nor classical, yet has considerable skill too and does exceptional things in the way Whitney did also.

 

Natalie has a really good foundation. Contemporary singing doesn't have any truly objective standards since so, so much of it depends on taste and what you consider to be acceptable sounds. What I would ask from her is more depth and more consistency with depth. From what I heard from her, she has a generally bright sound, which isn't necessarily a flaw, but is something she could add to have a larger range of dynamics since you can only ever be so big with a limited amount of depth.

 

 

I do agree that G3 was really nice, though. I'll give you that +1

 

Crossover is so vague to me too. It's just a genre, and I've heard some rather weak "crossover" singers myself. Just because you call yourself "classically trained" doesn't necessarily mean you had the proper classical training, nor had the right standards, nor did you learn / internalize the teachings, though if you had a proper teacher that knew the right sounds to look out for you should really be on a good track lol. I've heard soooo many questionable singers that called themselves "classically trained", and all I can think of "For what length of time? Are you sure you listened properly? Are you sure you're singing the way you were taught? I hope you weren't taught to sing like that." I do know if the larynx is neutral, you're automatically out. If you think a soprano doesn't need a good chest voice or a male voice a good falsetto, you're also out too. I think that's about it for the things that would separate even the bad opera singers from good pop vocalists since there is a mix of other stuff they do that separates them from the historical legends, but keeps them around the top for pop standards that I don't know the intricacies of.

I've never really heard Lara's head voice but I do think her mix, to some degree, is better than Whitney, since she kinda struggles above E5. Still nice, but I hear pushing and lack of ease. Is it because she's just so heavy with her approach? I never really liked her above E5.

EVEN E5 i HEARd LARA being more consistent than Whitney , david has a average low range like Eb3 his head voice is very undeveloped ( weak for me )

These crossover vocalists always seem to focus on a certain aspect rather than balancing it out. Usually their mix is really great, their chest voice and low notes too. But their head voice is a bit underused. Whitney, Sohyang and Beyonce's head voice seems to be quite a bit more developed than theirs.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

 

 

 

how was this performance?

 

You should ask the blog about this performance, it's nice material.

I'll try to review a bit...

 

First off is Doyoung. He's... Not doing well. He's whispering a lot of those notes though I think it's stylistic for the most parts. The support around F3 is already a bit flimsy honestly. Maybe he's tar getting to be a little too soft. His voice disappeared at C3/C#3.

 

Then it's Jaehyun. Right off the bat, he definitely has better support down there. But this is a baritone, it really shouldn't be low for him. The fact he's going softly on them as well makes me think these parts are somewhat stylistic.

 

Then it's Doyoung again. Here he definitely supports better. The part is going only up to E4, it's really more of a baritone range so far. But it sounds easy for him and supported. He could be just a little less soft and connect more though.

 

Then it's Taeil. Oh, it's this song. I've heard this part from a fancam before. He's singing a lot of G#4s here, the lowest being A3? It's the chorus, lol. I gear tension on most of the G#4s and maybe a bit of high larynx? Not sure bout the high larynx part, but I wouldn't say any of the G#4s were nicely supported. But then again, none were on good vowels. It did carry some support though, it just has a lot of tension.

 

Okay, it's Jaehyun again with the verse. Damn it boi! Do that C3/C#3 properly won't you? You're a baritone! It's really whispery. The rest has support.

 

Doyoung. This part is a bit nicer. 2.02, supported F4, vowel not ideal though.

 

Taeil again. Hm, he has a bit of a pitch problem. His pitch could be better here. 2.13 that G#4 is better though, the vibrato is a bit too fast. He has such a light way of singing... I definitely want to know Ahmin's opinion on this.

 

Doyoung is singing the chorus. He didnt do the G#4s badly actually. But I think he's kind of shallow up there. Not sure. The ones with aye vowel is strained though.

 

Taeil seems to be getting the hang off of G#4s.

Taeil again, strained phrased Bb4, vowels are bad.

 

Jaehyun... He's singing Eb4/E4, but I dont know how to judge baritones. He sounded like he was struggling a bit. Definitely ask Ahmin bout this part.

Okay, nice harmonizing. Taeil has a strained but relatively well mixed C5/C#5 there. Well, either it's heady or it's thin, I might be mistaken.

 

Doyoung doing his whispery thing in the chorus, nothing new.

 

 

3.56, some head voice part for Taeil. Not bad. I wonder if it's supported.

 

 

So overall, they did pretty well except for some pitch issues from each of them, the whispery low notes and such. I believe Taeil supported quite a few of the G#4s here, with some others having too much tension. But I think Taeil just needs more muscle coordination up there and a more steady breath support to be able to handle them all. He's almost there. And better placement too.

 

Doyoung isn't bad at all but there's nothing new here.

 

Jaehyun.. I wanna know bout his part before the last chorus, if they were supported or not.

 

Edit; Okay, Somebody Already Asked About This On The Blog. I Was Right For The Most Part Except For Taeil. Apparently He Strained Those G#4s, Really Tight. Hm Okay. I Do Think Some Of The G#4s Were Nice But His Lightness Might Be Throwing Me Off.

I'll delete the parts where I talked about the G#4s. Everything else seems to be correct so kudos for me lol

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Edited January 12, 2018 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

what? How can Lara Fabian not be considered a "pop" or contemporary style...it's Lara Fabian, do you know how popular she is in certain parts of Europe? LOL

 

I don't get how Barbra isn't either, she sang in a bright manner for the most part. Obviously they aren't bubblegum pop or kpop kind of pop but it's still a contemporary style. Whitney sang darker when she wanted to but she had an accent and phrasing that was not stereotypically "classical" sounding, it was appropriate for soul/r&b/pop. And you don't think Whitney had a "superior sense of resonance and projection"? It kinda seems like you are calling some singers like Barbra with very "proper" diction (like when a comedian imitates a stereotypical white American accent) and phrasing that may be more musical theater as "classical".

 

Lara is more consistent than Whitney was but Whitney was still generally better than whatever you would think is non-pushing or has "ease". Most of mid larynx "resonant" singing in pop is just a more refined method of shouting when it is a "chesty mix" or excessive tension in one way or another when it is a "light mix". Whitney's head voice was definitely much bigger and more coordinated than Lara, but I would not hold this against Lara whatsoever. It's contemporary singing, you don't need to do a Whitney head voice if you do not want to. I do not expect everyone to sing in a mix that is like Lara, it can be brighter if they want to. I do not expect Beyoncé to sing that recent timestamped G#5 head voice the way she did all the time, it's just not necessary for the style and you should be able to choose. Sohyang's HV technique is much smaller than Whitney and even Patti Labelle but I would not expect her to do it bigger if she does not want to. Sometimes I think if people cared about "resonance" and "health" so much you should just make everyone sing every style like an opera singer lol.

 

are you calling David Phelps and Lara Fabian "crossover artists"? lmao no dude, he's a gospel singer. Especially if the whole neutral larynx clan, like on youtube these days, is constantly using him in videos or namedropping him as having great contemporary technique in comments.

 

David Phelps' head voice is not "underused" whatsoever. Head voice development and coordination is more than a competition of who can hoot like an owl the highest. That's just what pop/r&b listeners are used to because singers always throw a hoot in here and there but that is not even the most developed way whatsoever. There's obviously a shit ton of things that these singers are not doing in comparison to classical head voice, and they do not need to because it is not the *style*. Contemporary is obviously not just one style or one method, not everyone's style is geared in terms of throwing in high notes in head voice in the same way that *insert kpop singer with good head voice* does not have to show any truly advanced facility in fiorature. Some male gospel singers do not actually employ the use of falsetto or head voice a lot in the fifth octave, their style is mostly belting and David Phelps is one of these guys. He prefers to use head voice that generally overlaps with his mix range, just like male opera singers.

 

it's sort of like when pop listeners say some bullshit about male opera singers not developing head voice just because they do not owl hoot in the 5th octave (they can btw, they NEED to do this in practice but NOT performance unless you are a countertenor, too lazy to post more examples but search Pavarotti's vocal range video and listen to the F5), so apparently they are wizards because they do all sorts of crescendos/diminuendos/messa di voce on notes that barely any pop tenor has ever demonstrated at an advanced level. Go search that post I made about dynamics and head voice with the tenor doing a 15 second sustained C5 with a diminuendo.

 

in this performance there's a lot of crescendos, subtle diminuendos and passages sung in mezza voce, which is a huge part of advanced lower register/upper register coordination. This is much more difficult than simply doing a higher head voice note. Listen to the whole thing, it is a shorter performance but I will timestamp some stuff

0:15 - 0:21

2:04 - 2:13

0:56 - 1:03

 

 

lastly there is nothing wrong with a pure falsetto if it is done well enough. Singing in pure falsetto is a method of developing the upper register muscles. It is not the same as having a weak chest voice which is definitely a bad thing, but of course there are many bad falsettos as well. Nothing wrong with a relaxed and relatively clear falsetto, it is healthy and necessary for development.

 

People give credit for being a kpop singer doing a small head voice (or mix) better than another kpop or western pop singer but when a singer does a bigger head voice or mix than the skilled kpop singers you like, there is no extra credit given. And again, I am cool with singers choosing to sing in lighter or fuller styles, contemporary styles should be allowed to have many different sounds, but I am simply using your own logic against you and playing devil's advocate here so you can think about your standards. They are very kpop-centric and blog-centric, and obviously it is a kpop forum but this is an "objective" vocals thread so try looking at things from a different angle.

Yeah...i do sound very silly, don't I? I apologize. I don't know what I was thinking tbh and I can't think of a reasonable excuse at all.

Yes, I realize that my views are very kpop and pop centric. And I'm trying to learn more, definitely.

 

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[ZRH23]

 

Made a new video. Feel free to check it out She's excellent.

I won't judge whether she's excellent or not since I'm not very clear about the criteria either. But oh, her lower range is heavenly lol. But I'm not a fan of her mixed range tho. It's resonant and nicely supported but something bout the vowels bother me a little. I just feel like she can be more open. The throat shaping is not the best... I think at least. Some of the F#5s and G5s are questionable for me but hey, that G#5 was really nice! Where's her head voice though?

hi vocal thread members!!

 

im a little shy so i probably wont post a vid or smth of me singing but ive been trying to improve and sing in the upper register more often but my voice is really airy and i cant sing in the upper register at all unless its falsetto and even then my high notes are very strained. my lower register is quite miserable too. not sure about my mixed register but id say its the same. i'm probably bad if bad is a category lol. any tips for me? like, how can i improve quicker? ive been told i have a nice timbre but i think thats it really.

If we dont hear you sing, we can't address the problem well. I'll base it off on how you describe yourself though whether it's true or not, we'll never know for sure unless it's shown.

 

Your question is very general, because you want to improve quicker in...everything lol. Ah...you know what, I'll have to leave this for other people...more experience people to answer. I could recommend you to take a look at KitsuneMale's (Ahmin) vocal videos but there are many other ways to train your voice the right way.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

G#4-Bb4 isn't an easy range to mix and sustain for an untrained tenor(I'm untrained too and I try to avoid anything above F4 by changing the melody and transposition). Range isn't an indicator of voice type. Send a video of you singing and someone here will help.

Hey, F4!? That's too low for a tenor as heady as you are XD. I would've thought you sang around A4 or something lol. AND WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN LMAO. I wish I can listen to the recordings here but I'm so busy *dead*.

 

 

And wow, the argument from Jstarfully and others was,,,,interesting, I have a feeling that Bazissino isn't a native English speaker? His texts often have misplaced intonations and punctuations so he might not realize it's a bit off putting. That's just my thought lol. Yikes, play nice people!

[ZRH23]

He's also one of the youngest on this thread so that probably contributes as well

Well, I AM the youngest here but I don't think age is too much of a factor. He is legit almost 10 years older than I am lol.

Honestly, i think most of normal listener can say that my record is better than Jstarfully, it does not mean that my technique is better than Jstarfully, but after listening to two records, all of my friends said that my record is easier to hear, they said that something on Jstarfully's voice make they feel uncomfortable and if they have to make a decision to continue listening, they will choose my record. Can you guys explain why?

 

 

 

And i want to ask about my singing, the lowest note at the beginning of the song is B2 right? I think my support is very weak. If you have time, can you listen to the full song and give me some comment. Tks.

 

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Jstarfully  ah, i'm not a native English speaker, i hope you can understand my words, i don't mean to talk disparagingly about your singing. Please not misunderstanding . 

Honestly, that could all be very subjective. As to why your friends would prefer you rather than Jstarfully. Like...some people prefer Park Bom than Taeyeon but we all know who is...y'know, much better,

[ZRH23]

Hyorin's taking lesson again. Love her <3. Interesting approach the instructor is taking to getting her to coordinate a head voice well, but I guess with Hyorin's old flopsetto it's a big upgrade. Anticipating good things from her and hope she recovers her F5s and moves beyond that

 

https://twitter.com/SistarSnaps/status/959728497211138049

 

 

Honestly, her mixing is so nice that the notes above D5 aren't really a far stretch, not even F5. She still has the mixing there but her throat has so much tension :'(.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbLz2DcxZEQ

 

The more I listen to her, the more I think she's got to have the greatest contemporary technique of all time ...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm7vULhD0o0

 

Unmatched vocal control compared to "excellent" singers today.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion but I just think that while she excels in the things other vocalists can't do, other vocalists can still do things that SHE can't as well so it's kinda a balancing out. Depends on what you think is more important. I suppose for the support in the mid-ranges (just around A3-A3) she does have a very nice approach and presence that I dont hear in other vocalists.

 

But then, her head voice is far from the best (she's like... Ailee/Luna level head voice, I think.) even when she tries to do that classical approach for her Bb5s. Her low notes are also noteworthy to be a bit inconsistent below F3. Agility could also be better, but for her kind of music, she's good.

 

From A3-A4, I really like her, she definitely sounds better than the vocalists I've heard so far. C5-F5, I've heard some inconsistencies where tension comes a bit too much and her vibrato really grows haywire and the note becomes unstable, especially in My Man, during her C5s at the end. But she's younger then and I couldn't hear much of her in the 70's. But I certainly don't think she has the best mix, very impressive but not the best.

 

I am starting to love her tho lolololol. I listen to her songs to sleep (Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered) and I feel like covering one soon. Maybe 'The Way We Were'? I'm not much for agility but hey, my dynamics aren't bad. I'd probably sing in the range of C3-E4.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

 

 

lol, Barbra's "My Man" notes are amazing. There's nothing wrong with them. C5 - F5, Barbra is golden. The control she has over her voice just exceeds someone like SoHyang or Beyonce.

 

 

We are talking about this "My Man," right? Those notes are amazing. Power, clarity, resonance. Control. Barbra has so much control over her voice.

 

 

Amazing here too.

 

Start about 3:20. I mean you could literally warm something up in the microwave as long as she sustains and resonates that note.

 

About 2:16. This is such clean, pure resonance. Well-connected to her whole voice. Very balanced. A lot of support.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGUDMOlhwug

Have you ever considered how much control it takes to do dynamics at this level without going off pitch, without having a break in the voice, etc? Most vocalists don't have this control. SoHyang doesn't. Beyonce doesn't. I'm not saying Barbra is the only one. I know others who do it but Barbra really stands out.

 

Barbra is able to maintain strong support even when phrasing as low as F3, occasionally as low as E3 in PHRASES. Complex phrases that require octave jumps and register shifts. You're focusing on the notes. And it's funny how you do that for Barbra, but SoHyang's lower is light years worse. Her whole chest register is, actually. SoHyang has trouble as low as C4 in phrasing. You'd be hard-pressed to find a soprano (especially in Korea) but really in the world with a lower like Barbra's. Natalie Weiss and Han Hong probably have better ones, (Betty Buckley definitely does), Ock Joo Hyun might be similar, but the fluidity in Barbra's lower phrases, especially in phrases that transcend different registers is hard to find. And yes that matters, even if the bottom two notes of her range are rarely supported or attempted.

 

Barbra just has a refined, clean, and rounded sound that I rarely hear in other vocalists. Just compare her "The Way We Were" to Beyonce's or her "Memory" to SoHyang's. You have to see what I'm talking about. They fragment their phrases (both of them) because they don't have the breath support or legato or dynamic control to do it. Their voices as a whole aren't as connected. They can't even maintain a similar tone throughout their registers. SoHyang is lowering her larynx on A3s there to try and get some semblance of body. It's very artificial. It's very amateur, and it shows a lack of development. There's no freedom in her voice here. And Bey is usually too chesty to pull of the vocal feats Barbra does. Her whole vocal production is not as clean.

 

But it's not just them. Lara Fabian is basically Barbra Streisand Lite, lol, but she gets more credit these days for some reason. But she's not as good as Barbra is. Betty Buckley confuses me by how good she is, but she's so explosive all the time that she didn't really explore other areas of her voice. But, honestly, I think Barbra and Betty are almost the standard. Barbra aged better. But they both sing in such a pure way. Very little tension or pushing or straining or anything. Few constrictions. SoHyang gets a lot of credit (as she should) for rarely straining, but she has more tension issues than either Barbra or Betty and probably Lara Fabian.

 

 

Barbra - 4:58 Betty - 8:11

 

Just compare them to the rest of the people in the video. SoHyang, too, if you want. They're not comparable. Neither of them have any tension issues as they maneuver through this phrase. Betty, especially, knocks this out of the ball park. I might make another post just for her in a bit. But that Eb5 Betty hits is unreal in clarity, tone, freedom, resonance, power, projection, legato. It's got everything. I mean the "all ALONE" part. The phrase is seemingly so effortless for her.

 

When you want to say some vocalists are better at some things and it's hard to compare, they need to be at a similar level already. Like, Barbra and Betty are in the same conversation. But Barbra and Beyonce or Betty and Ailee or even Betty and SoHyang, they don't make sense.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFcdlFhaptc

 

And about head voice and haywire vibrato, just check out SoHyang here starting about 27 seconds in. This is a haywire vibrato going through different pitches and speeds. I've never heard Barbra do that.

 

Ailee has as good as a head voice as Barbra does? On what basis? Their supported ranges might end about the same note, but the depth of her support on those notes isn't even comparable.

There's another performance of My Man where her sustained C5 had vibrato that ended up making the note off pitch but then she had to slide back up. I'll link it later.

 

Personally, I dont find her resonance very impressive. It's very nice, of course, it's very clean. But she rarely does anything more than that. She has VERY clean singing, that's her style. The instances where she does anything different is when she growls the notes a bit. Her phrases when she sings are very fluid and support is very established in her singing.

 

I agree, Beyonce's singing is too chesty and too rough to pull off something in Barbra's style, her legato's smoother than butter (or so that youtuber says) and yeah her support is 'embodied' or whatever terms you use. I've watched Beyonce's version and I agree that it's inferior to Barbra's (other than that one random resonant E5 lol).

 

But imagine Barbra singing I Care or Dangerously In Love or Crazy In Love for instance.

Yeah, it's not a very good thought. Could she do a transition on a run to B5 as smooth As Beyonce's while maintaining the rockish style? Could she do that melisma D5 that Beyonce does that lasted almost 10 seconds and continue almost immediately with an equally long C#5? Not to mention the number of complex runs in there. If there were no runs, Barbra could Do it but then let's transfer it to the exact range cuz she's a soprano, could Barbra do that with E5? Again, maybe but I wouldn't bet on it, especially with melismas. Can Barbra perform that run up to F5 in Crazy In Love that Beyonce does accurately in every single performance? Or G5 if we want to be fair.

 

I think arguing like how I did in the above Paragraph is petty because every vocalist can't possibly do it the exact same way how the original one does. But yes, I agree that Beyonce's support in her midrange is not nearly as strong as Barbra's. But her development on C#3s, to F5/F#5 and C#6/D6 is not to be overlooked and I PERSONALLY think it balances out (Eb3, G5 and E6 for soprano).

 

Perhaps I'm wrong or maybe I'm not. I really like Barbra and my argument isn't Beyonce (I didnt actually bring her up) but I just want to point out that Barbra is certainly not milesssssss away from vocalists like Sohyang, Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Natalie Weiss and others that gave stellar technique. Maybe she is better because her support is much more established and clean but she is certainly not light years away because she many things she still can't do that others can. But that does not mean they are better or vice versa.

 

And about her head voice, I honestly don't hear much depth into it. Well, I wonder what C.Y thinks anyways.

 

sent from your mom.