Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Jstarfully]

Oh you are right lol

I thought you guys just talked about kpop singers sorry

That slander to my favorite singer tho and i thought he was good

 

Just because someone doesn't possess divine technical mastery of their voice doesn't mean that you can't enjoy their singing hahaha

Plus Bruno Mars is pretty good when he's not overextending himself. Also, I think his signature song-writing style is the most amazing thing he has going for him, he's a crazy good writer and producer, although he does work with others of course.

[Jstarfully]

What was that C#5 at 13:09 that had to be strained right

 

Strained and not placed correctly. Her support isn't the worst, but since she didn't place it correctly her voice kinda cracked and she struggled to keep on pitch.

[Jstarfully]

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Weak vocalist vs weak vocalist, this is fun lol

 

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Why do they make girls and guys compete with the same song at the same pitch? Even tenors and sopranos usually have quite different strong areas of their voice. This song was way more challenging for the guy than Rose, no high or low notes for her voice at all.

[Jstarfully]

my real first thoughts was "that is not attractive" lol both the way she sounds and musically, i hate wen singers hold notes for such a long time, just feels uncomfortable 

 

the second clip sounds painful 

 

I'm usually just like... ok but why? It never serves any purpose besides showing off your lung capacity and breath control which like, yeah, good for you, but maybe do something that sounds nice with it instead?

[Jstarfully]

I think it was 6.

It definitely wasn't because I did one where I accidentally pressed a key before I had properly heard a few of the tones, and I got 29th percentile on 3.96Hz or something.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

I'm confused now on the graph the arrow was at 17, so what does that mean.

So like if you're at the 99th percentile for example, you're better than 99% of people. If you're at the 17th, you're better than 17% of people. Tbh at the level this test is at, it doesn't make much of a difference musically. It's better to do a tone-deafness test.

[Jstarfully]

The good thing about this test is knowing that you have a perception of pitch.

Tbh it just gives me traumatic flashbacks to aural dictation in high school because we used to do it for hours on end before end-of-year exams. It almost made me want to never hear anything ever again, if only I wouldn't have to dictate anything either.

 

This was also the same teacher that made everybody who was noisy, disruptive or didn't pay attention in class listen to gregorian chant on full blast for all of lunchtime, although I was exempt from all of those because I was top student both years I had her.

[Jstarfully]

Did they just put Minzy against Sohyang in King of the Masked Singer?

 

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Sohyang vs Lee Haeri should be fun.

 

 

This almost compares to when I was angry about male and female vocalists being made to sing the same song at the same pitch on Masked Singer.

[Jstarfully]

they need to consider ratings on this lol

 

Well it's just so stupid because like oh yeah, let's put this idol singer who is from YG, the king of weak vocals, and who wasn't even the main vocal in her group against this veteran solo singer.

 

Like yeah that sounds like a great idea PD-nim, you're the best! NOT, you idiot. Especially on this show where singers that are technically better almost always win. Soul, emotion, tone, colour and all that jazz doesn't count for much on Masked Singer except for the fans of idols that go on there, try their best, and lose to a solo veteran singer.

 

And like, I'm entirely an idol fan. I listen to Jungkook's 'If You' like every night, but he lost against this guy with an amazing, huge voice and crazy range. Masked Singer is pretty predictable, as far as these singing shows go.

[Jstarfully]

Did Somi improves her singing after joining Unnie Slam dunk?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoaBMfg67jo

 

If she did, that song wouldn't be where you could tell. The female part of that song is mostly falsetto, and the parts that aren't are well in her comfortable range.

[Jstarfully]

*pretends like ik what that is*

Google it lol it's a pretty simple medical condition, but I think she's just resting so that they can get a reliable medicine/treatment regime going. It's not exactly fatal or anything, can just make you kinda generally unwell and if you're extremely unlucky can give you a thyroid storm, which can often kill you.

[Jstarfully]

High larynx, and throaty.

Btw where is Solji?

 

Also hold up, I'm pretty sure you can't have both of those at the same time. A low larynx is throaty if you're not supporting and projecting at the same time. 

[Jstarfully]

I disagree that it was sung with a straight up high larynx, but there is no reason why one could not sing with a high larynx and throatiness at the same time. Either way it was strained: it was throaty, pushed and the vibrato wobbly. 

Haha I'll ask my tutor about it. It seemed like the first two 'whoa's of that bit were sung pretty messily, even if the post-processing covered up any off-pitch notes. She's kind of just sliding between them, and it doesn't seem very controlled, nor like it was meant to be sung as a slide. Opinions on that?

Edited April 11, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

I know SoHyang use the right technique but all her songs are extremely difficult with those super high notes, i wonder if she continue belting those high notes for a long time, could her vocal cord be damaged? And she is a cancer survivor too, you can see her trouble and tired easily in some performance in 2015-2016. I think she has a good health condition right now though...

 

Sohyang had cervical cancer, so unless the actual treatment damaged her voice, she'd be fine. I mean, it makes you really tired and you kinda feel like shit all the time, but she seems better now. 

And with the high notes, taking into account the amount of time she has been singing them, you'd kind of be able to tell by now if it was detrimental to her vocal chords. I mean think of, for example Solji and Hyorin. You could tell within only a year or two that they weren't using good enough technique to be pushing their voices that far. 

[Jstarfully]

Isn't that also why sometimes idols say they sat on each others stomachs while they laid down to practice singing in training? Or are they trying to push against (out) the person there? 

 

It's kinda awkward lol Uji was already better at debut, no? So I'd bet she could have corrected Solji during training, but couldn't for respect reasons. I feel bad for Hyerin, seems like she absorbed her training but because it was flawed in nature, she's not able to build her skill :/

 

Solji was their vocal teacher then, she wasn't a trainee until Uji and the others left and the company needed a vocal member.

 

Anyway, I've been arguing with someone who says that Hyorin didn't regress because of her technique faults and it honestly feels like I'm hitting my head against a wall like I'm losing brain cells trying to educate this person. I mean, I've given up now because she was one of those delusional stans but I just smh seriously, smh.

[Jstarfully]

Either way, they were saying it was because she overused her voice. It's almost impossible to regress by overuse if you have good technique. Sure you could get a vocal hemorrhage or smth but that's a relatively acute, short-term problem. 

[Jstarfully]

You can damage your voice despite having good technique if you have other health issues, like Mariah Carey.

No he literally said alto.

 

Yeah, health issues. With reminds me to ask you, are there any thyroid issues that can hurt your voice?

[Jstarfully]

What are some songs or performances that have lots of high notes that you LOVE like even if its all strain

you're just like YASSS SLAYYY   

 

SNSD You Think - they were just like fuck it we aren't gonna sing this live anyway let's throw in Fs and Gs 

 

 

 

Is it weird that this is a song I'm using to help me develop my lower high range?

Cus like my upper high range is super easy for me to mix, no strain and my throat feels fine. But then when its a lower song that hangs around B4-D5 I just for some reason can't automatically place the notes properly and I get all strained and my throat starts hurting. But yeah I'm using songs like that to help me bridge and train muscle memory lol :P

[Jstarfully]

That's weird. Are you sure you weren't just using a head voice/falsetto in the higher notes. Even a heady mix wouldnt make much sense with that. Especially with 'no strain'.

 

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Nah it ain't falsetto brah, I just automatically mix better when I go for very high notes, whereas with songs that start lower and go up mid-high, my instinct is to push my chest voice up and I don't transition into head-dominant mix well. That's what I'm practicing atm :P

[Jstarfully]

idk if there are commonly accepted/documented vocal risks with thyroid disease. However, I went to school for classical voice while simultaneously dealing with Grave's Disease -> thyroid ablation -> total thyroidectomy and have been singing the whole time. So, I can share at least my ~personal experience.

 

I think forms of Hyperthyroidism that present with goiter (as in an actual growth in the area) can physically inhibit proper phonation because there is a literal thing there that shouldn't be there. But in my experience, the only real effect it had was related to my general health. Thyroid disease presents in about a BILLION ways, but if you are generally unwell, your singing can suffer. Left untreated, any thyroid disease can affect your singing because you are sick. And the voice relies so heavily on physical health to be at its best. 

 

I remember being scared when I had my thyroidectomy. The most common surgical risk is longterm hoarseness if the nerves in the area get pushed around too much. I was very lucky that I was in good shape pretty immediately. And I'm still singing today. And sound pretty much the same. I occasionally have more tightness in my neck area than I like, but I think a lot of that is psychosomatic. 

 

anyhoo, I just ranted for a really long time lmao sorry

 

This whole post feels like #me but anyway yeah I agree with everything you said, just wanted to hear what somebody else had to say regarding the issue.

 

I have pseudohypoparathyroidism - super rare, super annoying. I had managed not to be in hospital for hypocalcemia this year until a couple of weeks ago, so my current record of four months was sadly broken lol but yeah, because that and all my other diseases I'm kind of just always on high alert for everything that could possibly - and would, given the chance - kill or severely harm me.

 

Surprisingly the thing that ruined my voice the most was a surgery I had in high school, when I was 16. The actual surgery itself had nothing at all to do with anything near my throat, or even my airway at all. The closest they got was my left hip for a bone graft, but the main surgery was my left ankle.

 

It was my second surgery, and because of my first surgery I knew that I have a small airway and that they would always need to use smaller than usual intubation tubes. The anaesthesiologist thought I was just being a lil' bitch, and didn't do so. When I woke up, I was hoarse and sore as all hell, couldn't eat solid food for a month because of the sheer swelling.

 

My advice for anyone having surgery for any reason would be to tell the anaesthesiologist to start with smaller tubes, use the smallest tube possible, and to be gentle. 'Cus honestly that ruined my voice way more than when I got flu and secondary tracheitis and laryngitis (also an ear infection but that's not relevant lol).

 

Replied to your rant with another rant lol

[Jstarfully]

So it was more being nervous and not loosing it rather than bad technique? I know he is not best technique wise either but maybe it was because it was the first time performing it and i too really like the song, was anticipating this live 

 

It could be nervousness but it's definitely not entirely nervousness, at least in my opinion. He's just pushing his chest voice up so high and that's why he's straining, maybe he hadn't practiced enough and wasn't secure enough in his transitions to 'let go' and start mixing lighter, I don't know. This is the reason why you need to look at more than one performance, you don't know if on one particular performance the artist was nervous, in bad condition, couldn't hear themselves, the audio system was bad, or really anything happened to make it not what their 'average' performance would be. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

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How do you guys think about their vocals?

 

It sounds like it's been either live corrected or post, or perhaps they re-recorded it later, not dancing. Their lips and mic movements don't quite match the audio at some parts. I'd be hard pressed to actually take this audio as live, non-processed vocals.

[Jstarfully]

It would be valid if k-pop agencies casted singers in their 20s with classic education (just as they do here), but i Korea they take in teenagers. Kids all want to debut, they all try to sing high. Some can't & are turned into rappers now (but prior, for older groups not so much).

But, as I mentioned above, all those potential baritones don't sing enough in their most comfortable range, some even can't, being trained as light lyric tenors.

 

I mean, if they were all trained like they did on ep 2 of P101S2 then I'd understand. The trainers just go 'why can't you sing high? you can't sing' but they don't actually teach them anything.

 

A bass probably wouldn't be able to sing in standard kpop range, but a baritone should be able to with a good teacher. The tutor I have right now has been able to train some crazy notes out of people you'd think wouldn't be able to go that high (or low for that matter). In contemporary you can train yourself to have a much wider 'comfortable' range than with classical. If everyone who sang was trained like that, it'd probably almost be better to be a baritone or a mezzo, because training yourself to sing lower is damn near impossible once you hit a certain note, but reinforcing your head voice and eventually making into a mix extends your voice pretty damn near as high as a soprano or tenor could sing.

[Jstarfully]

That's the reason vocal range works perfectly fine with classic singing & chest voice but isn't really applicable to contemporary music, they say.

In fact, in k-pop they compare singers who all are supposed to sing in the same range, whatever techniques that takes.

 

But, yes, it's pretty interesting to analyze what voice would they have if they get to sing in their 'natural' voice without so much mix & falcetto.

It explains well enough how some of 'tenors' actually have more rich & colorful tone on lower range.

But, again, it's hard for not so professional singers to change techniques on the spot, so low note after the high ones migh not be so impressive, I think.

 

It can be hard for some people though. Like my issue right now is that if I start off on very high notes, ever E5 or smth, my mix and placement is easy to find. However if the song starts off low and goes mid-high, like D-Db5 ish, I don't transition into my head mix well and try to push my chest voice up instead. It's taking a lot of practice haha and I got a scholarship in singing years ago, and being self-taught back then, it's not like I wasn't already doing well. This one thing is just hell though 

 

I think it takes a lot of dedication, hard work, a good tutor, and tons of practice. It's muscle memory, but unlike breathing, which came naturally, and openness which came with a little work, transitioning throughout registers can be really difficult. At least, that's how I'm finding it.

 

Plus so many people go 'oh I'm a mezzo, I can't sing that high' or 'oh I'm a tenor I can't sing that low' which is frustrating because if you have that mindset you won't even try to develop your technique. Unless you're an alto or a bass, you can 95% of the time sing pop songs just as well as tenors and sopranos.

[Jstarfully]

 PEOPLE need to hear her singing LOL 

 

 

Omg what the fuck was that around 1:20 hahaha I don't even know where to start lol

Also... did she come from training YG? Because from her speaking voice, it doesn't seem like she'd have a low, throaty voice like that. I'm willing to bet she's putting it on bc 'voice tone is so much better than technique and range omg u guys are dumb' a la Rose or Bom.