Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[geodeheart]

hey, i just wanted to drop in to introduce myself whenever i might post in this thread

 

i lurk in here all the time, but i just want to say that all you guys are really cool and that vocal pedagogy is something that's interested me for years now.....i've learned the basics for some time already, but hopefully through this thread, i can learn more about it in depth

[geodeheart]

 

 

Random but I was listening to some fancams of Ailee at her concert yesterday and I stumbled upon this.....I really wish she could accept that she's a light lyric.....idg this light lyric denial in pop music

 

like yeah being a light lyric might be common, but if you have bomb technnique with great musicality [e.g. Mariah in her prime], you can still manage to slay

 

that being said, i'd rather listen to Ailee's version of this song way more than original (i kinda hate the nasality)

Edited April 10, 2017 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

hey there y'all, just wanted to drop into the thread to ask some questions.......

 

what is the healthiest way to produce support for notes in the lower register & how can i learn how to avoid lowering my larnyx?

 

I'm currently trying to jump back into regular singing again after some inactivity. i taught myself the general rules & other important details about vocal pedagogy already (and I do have experience with singing), btw.

 

I do have some ease in the lower register, but I'm not sure how I can learn how to identify pitch notation with singing (any app recommendations?) so I can identify my supported range

 

Thank you guys so much & I love seeing your contributions to the thread!

Edited December 27, 2017 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

Tidbit: lowering your larynx isn't inherently an issue. The focus should on be on the incorrect approach to lowering the larynx/tension

 

What my lovely favourite member of this thread told me is chest voice is about clarity. The chest voice gets cloudy/aspirated as you go lower when it's "unsupported" because the coordination is incorrect. You want your vowels to be really clear and speech-like when developing your chest voice; the way Barack Obama speaks, for example. You don't want to scoop down towards notes. You just want speech-like clarity but lower

 

 

Sent from my LG-H873 using OneHallyu mobile app

 

That seems to be a really good piece of advice, I notice that clarity among singers that have strong lower registers. Thanks for the tip!

[geodeheart]

don't judge I cheated as well, u must be a genius if you knew all the answers LOL. I didn't actually enjoy persona 5 that much though, not sure why >_<

 

 

 

there's nothing wrong with elongating the vocal tract or in other words lowering your larynx if you can do it right, if anything it is technically advantageous in every single way if you do it right. Do you have a male or female voice? and who are your vocal influences or singers that you want to sing like?

 

for example we just brought up Vanessa Amorosi so let's use a random clip of her singing some lower notes well enough in a lower larynx position

1:27 - 1:32 she sings around D4/Eb4 down to A3 in a lower larynx position

 

 

it's just something people may choose to do when they are singing more soulful songs like Vanessa was and Ailee likes doing that as well in the lower notes though she may not be as good at it. You can sing it in a more neutral position if you feel like it as well but it's up to you depending on what style you're into.

 

and of course, if you listen to singers like opera singers who knew how to sing in a low larynx well, you can hear how Vanessa's timbre in those timestamps is taking on more fuller, richer characteristics. There's nothing wrong with singing your low notes in a lower larynx position if you want, you just need to do it well without involving too much constriction

D4 @ 1:10

 

 

I'm a light lyric soprano (so female) & I'd approach my lower notes not like Ailee at all actually.......the vocal analysis blog states that her lower register needs a lot of improvement & that her lowering her larnyx is one of the reasons why she mainly drops support & projection below G3 frequently (she's improved time to time, but it's not consistent)

 

I know that in opera/classical music that lowering the larnyx is the norm & is part of the technique needed to sing, but in contemporary music?

 

i don't know tbh, from what I've been taught & what I've read, lowering the larnyx is tricky bc it usually hinders proper support in the lower register mainly

 

If I were to improve my lower register, I'd love to approach it like Tori Kelly's:

 

https://youtu.be/gnZPaeOdCRI?t=56

 

From Eb3, I'd love to have the clarity & ease she has, but obviously I'd have to train & practice my voice to get to that point.

Edited December 29, 2017 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

Lowering the larynx isn't the reason anyone loses support in the lower range. The reason is because the mental connection of clarity isn't kept + the coordination goes off. Ailee scoops down for her lower notes rather than treating them as clear vowels that happen to be lower, like most other singers. How could every actual opera singer get away with lowering their larynges to really precise degrees lower than contemporary singers if the issue is the low larynx itself lol.

 

Actual no shade aimed at the blog since this is applicable to most contemporary teachers, but there are many majorly disproven "universal truths" that are passed around as vocal "facts" that have been discussed in this thread and low larynx is one of them. Even in contemporary singing, various singers deepen their vowels/elongate their vocal tracts to various degrees depending on their style and how they were trained/who they were inspired by and can be present outsixe of the lower range too lol, but suddenly it's an issue if your larynx lowers when your notes go lower lol. The issue is strictly the coordination being off + the presence of tension.

 

A matter of stylistic choice is another story, though. You could decide to stick to more a more neutral larynx position if you choose (which have their own issues, but I digress) and still maintain the core concept of clarity and maintaining that lower / higher

 

Sent from my LG-H873 using OneHallyu mobile app

 

 

oh yeah the baritone guy is pretty good in comparison to some of the other famous baritones today, he's a naturally bigger baritone and he has less tongue and laryngeal depression in comparison. That's really disappointing to hear about Dolora though, I guess she's way out of her prime at 65. Actually I had no idea what the state of her vocal health was in recent years, but 20 to 30 years ago she was one of the better mezzos, as far as the last generation goes I mean, though she was not in the league of the great mezzos that came before her so I shouldn't be too surprised that her technique hasn't lasted that long.

 

but YAY you enjoyed the baritone the most <3 LOL

 

 

the guy who writes the blog, who we all know here and used to be a regular member here, was taught to sing in a particular manner of pop singing which is why he would tell you everything is done in a neutral larynx. He himself does not sing with as much of a lengthened vocal tract which is why he would tell you that everyone sings in "neutral larynx". I myself do not sing in much of a lengthened vocal tract either in contemporary music, so it's not like I'm trying to sell you anything here LOL I'm simply informing you so you know what options are open to you. You can sing in a neutral way if you'd like. I wasn't telling you to sing it like Ailee, I was saying that she attempts to sing her low notes in a lower larynx position but doesn't do it that well. You can learn to do what Ailee is TRYING to do and better, that's what I meant. Or just don't lower it if that's what you want, it's up to you.

 

The fact is that not every contemporary singers uses this elusive "neutral larynx" throughout, many of the greatest contemporary singers lengthened their vocal tracts or lowered their larynx more than others in some area of the voice, not completely throughout and not 100% of the time, but they did do it when they wanted to. Lengthening the vocal tract happens in degrees and it's not the oversimplified explanation you will typically see about how every contemporary just sings "neutral" all the time and then every opera singer is "low" and that's it. That's oversimplifying the reality of it. It's like describing everyone's height only by saying tall or short or describing the weather by only saying it's cold warm or hot, and yes that is suffice for a colloquial conversation but things are more complicated than that.

 

Whitney Houston used a lower larynx position and her mom was classically trained. Lara Fabian does and she is classically trained, David Phelps does in his high notes and he is classically trained. I know most people may tell you this and this is bad and whatever, but can they resonate as intensely as Whitney and Lara Fabian? Can their neutral larynx tenors sing and sustain their C5s with the fullness and stamina of David Phelps? Can any of them understand and demonstrate the concept of lengthening your vocal tract/lowering your larynx to the point that they could literally sing next to Pavarotti like this @ 0:35?

 

 

in this thread, the only member who has demonstrated non-classical singing in the lower parts of the voice while resonating as intensely as Whitney or David Phelps' high notes is caipirinhas. And she posted on the page before this one saying that she sings with a lower larynx position.

 

but anyway back to the main question lol. You are more interested in a more "neutral" way and that is totally fine, like I said that's how I try to sing contemporary myself. Unfortunately just self-teaching will be difficult, you can try just sitting with an instrument and practicing on single pitches on a clear OH vowel. You can just straight up imitate Tori Kelly as best as you can. When singing low notes, you do not want to grind into the note, or dig into and involve too much constriction to hit the note. Some people think when you sing a low note then you do this really thick, constricted sound but you need to concentrate on keeping the vowel bright, clear and speech-like, and releasing the air on the low notes because it will take more air than you think for lower notes. Sing in a bright, speech-like clarity on each vowel and relax into the note as if you were doing a nice exhalation.

 

Its hard to learn while just reading descriptions like this, I can be saying something and thinking one thing in my head but you might read it and imagine something else in your head. The best way possible, if you don't have a teacher guiding you or something, is to record a clip and either post it here or PM it to me so we know where to go from there.

 

Thank you both for the informative replies! Sorry if I came across as snarky, I'm kinda awkward with talking to people online about things (especially bc I'm new to this thread) but thanks again for the info.

 

For the longest time, I was really worried if I was approaching my singing in the lower register properly because I kept lowering my larnyx beyond a certain point......but oddly enough, I don't have that much of an issue with airiness or over-compression usually

 

The videos & examples you both provided are pretty interesting, I've always found it interesting how classical singers always had more of a richer tone & volume than most contemporary singers (technique aside, of course)

 

 

A bit random but speaking about Whitney Houston, I've always wondered if her fach had changed throughout her career (like in comparison from her debut era to like the late 90's before her voice was super damaged). I heard she was originally a spinto soprano. I know that generally women's voices tend to deepen with age (like Beyonce's did) & with pregnancy, but i just wanted to know out of curiosity

Edited December 29, 2017 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

Random question but isn't Sohyang a lecturer at a university regarding music? Does she primarily teach vocal pedagogy and the technique/training she's gotten in the past?

[geodeheart]

I've seen some of her lectures on Youtube and from what I could tell, it's mostly about musical style, arrangement and emotion of the sorts. Not exactly about technique though I think she does give a few tips here and there and demonstrations of how it's supposed to sound like and what is wrong. She doesn't usually outrightly teach the techniques and I can understand that since that could be utterly boring so I think she's mostly teaching the musicality aspect while sliding the techniques into it as well so that's smart. Is she necessarily a vocal trainer? I'm not sure but I think not.

 

Ah I understand, that's still pretty cool though. I'd honestly love to attend a class given by a vocalist as skilled as she is.

 

 

Happy New Year everyone btw! It's about 6 hours before I get to say it, but i just wanted to say it in advance for everyone.

[geodeheart]

I hate to be that guy again LOL but being skilled as singing does not mean you can teach. Teaching is truly a different talent, so many great singers went on to teach and they never really amounted to much. That is a big reason why skill in the opera world declined so much, there were many great teachers and their students sang very well, but those students who went on to teach never really produced many great singers, and the numbers dwindled and dwindled with each generation.

 

So basically you can even be a great singer and have a really bad ear for technique when it comes to listening to others. You can see this in the pop world, when you see a good pop singer describe who they think is really good and it might just be another pop singer who is not even near the level of themselves. and of course even when you have a good ear, that doesn't mean you have the ability to teach a beginner singer to do the things you want them to do.

 

but yas happy new year!

 

ahhhh it's you, the one with the certain...interests. where's your butt buddy FetusKBK, tho? haha

 

Ah I see your point, that's understandable. Ailee herself is a pretty decent vocalist but she doesn't have that much of an ear for technique with others (and maybe herself at times)

 

I'm curious to know who works with contemporary pop vocalists that is actually decent at their job though. I know that dude who teaches Ariana (among others) is a sham basically lol

 

(sorry for kinda opening a can of worms btw, like with the Barbra & Beyonce argument (which is a bit ridiculous bc she is indeed a stellar vocalist)

[geodeheart]

Beyonce? She is not a stellar vocalist. She's good, but stellar? Not even close.

 

I'm not really in the mood to argue on New Year's Eve, but she has shown pretty damn good support in her lower register, mixed voice, & upper register/head voice.......you can have your subjective opinion on her, but Beyonce has some of the best agility, musicianship, & overall ability among her peers & the entire industry

 

http://thevocalpoint.tumblr.com/post/159131215585/vocal-profile-beyonc%C3%A9

 

just a link with a good overview about her technique w/ examples

 

Sure, Beyonce isn't perfect (her mix can be albeit unbalanced & she has shown flaws in the past), but she's pretty damn good.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

Here's SoHyang's vocal analysis. My point in dropping this is to say that, yes, I said some crazy things before (like LSH having a resonant mix. I wasn't good enough back then to know what I was saying. I am now), but I'm not the only one saying some out-there stuff.

 

"Sohyang also can maintain a consistent column of sound and can sing with an even scale with no drops of support in the A3-F6 range"

 

1. SoHyang doesn't support to F6, and she has noticeable drops in her column of sound below D4.

 

"Well developed head voice that is connected with the rest of the voice. Very bright,full and vibrant able to maintain head resonance to F6."

 

2. Again, not supported until F6.

 

It's been edited to take out that ridiculous comment about only being off pitch about twice in her career, but the replacement line is still wrong:

 

"Fairly consistent intonation really only have pitch issues when doing very intricate and complex runs, other than that extremely reliable."

 

3. Her pitch issues are present even when "very intricate and complex runs" are not.

 

"The Ring is almost always achieved in the A4-B5 range"

 

4. She most certainly does not "almost always achieve" the ring in this range.

 

"Dynamics are not a problem for her even in her upper extremes."

 

5. Where are these dynamics in her upper extremes?

 

"Sohyang has amazing musicianship and control of how she uses her voice to fit the style(from a more rock like sound in My World, to a more family friendly sound in Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas)."

 

I mean, this is quite a stretch. I don't know anyone who would sing "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" the same way they would sing "My World."

 

The point being, we've all said stuff that we've taken back. I'll admit I had trouble with the mix at first, but that was 3-5 years ago. I'm tired of people bringing up stuff like that to try and discredit me when I've put forth years of study since saying that. And, I've mentioned several times what I think of LSH now: she's a soprano with support from F3 - D#5 when she chooses to use a more balanced mix but who generally uses a stylistic chestier approach that limits her in the mixed register. She also could develop her lower register more; even the lowest of her supported notes could be better. I've corrected what I said several times, and I'm not playing that game anymore. But where are the Bey stans at who are gonna say, "You know what, her vibrato isn't operatic" or "You know what, she does have tension in her upper mix" or "You know what, she is off pitch a lot"? Where are the SoHyang fans who are gonna admit that she's not just "sick" and "tired" all the time? She has legit technical issues that she needs to take care of. Unlike a lot of these people, I admit I was wrong before. But that's irrelevant now. Talk to me about what I'm saying now. Don't try to bring up years-old arguments to discredit me--especially when you're not even presenting an argument yourself.

 

Listen if you have issues with what's on the blog, maybe should contact the people who actually run & write it.........no offense, but it's a general consensus on this thread that Sohyang is regarded as a top vocalist & should be treated as such. You can have your opinion but there are reciepts so *shrugs* believe what you want

[geodeheart]

It must also be regarded that she's a spinto because that's what's written here in this thread. (It's weird to type voices in pop that specifically. I don't do it, but the general consensus among people who do is that she's a full lyric. Barbra also isn't a mezzo like written here.) But they can't make mistakes, right?

Look, I think you missed the point of my posts. It doesn't surprise me. People here either have really low reading comprehension abilities or just latch on to whatever they want to hear.

 

If you read my post, nowhere did I indicate that SoHyang isn't a good vocalist. Why bring it up? That has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Honestly, I think it's a misdirection technique people use because they don't have a proper response to what I said.

 

The point of my post is that attempts to attack my credibility are ridiculous because people who are respected in this thread have said equally inaccurate stuff, and people just pretend like that never happened. The only reason I am challenged for it is because I went against the grain. But honestly a lot of people in this blog knew even less than I did at the time but got away with it because they would default to or parrot what Ahmin said. I'm cool with Ahmin too, but let's not pretend that he hasn't made mistakes or changed his mind about people. He told me specifically years ago he thought LSH had a beautiful lower register, but as he said a few months ago, he's allowed to change his mind when he knows more. All I'm asking is for the same respect. When other people make errors, they aren't discredited for them for years. We are all students and to hold someone to an ignorant opinion stated 3 -5 years ago is ridiculous, and it isn't done to anyone else.

 

I do disagree with the blog/thread sometimes, and the people who wrote it know how I feel, and we respect each other. The problems come in from these other users who have snarky comments to say when they hear anything that differs from what has been said before. It's also funny to me that I am lambasted for wrong opinions held years ago, but people in this blog aren't held accountable for the fact that they are wrong now about many vocalists and spread misinformation that has ruined their reputations. Celine's a good example. Barbra's even better. This thread basically took away several notes of Barbra's range and got away with it because anybody who disagrees here gets ridiculed. I've seen older members of this thread who left because they didn't like the one-sided direction the thought here has taken. I have receipts, too. But they often get ignored. And to the people who actually responded to me discussing vocals, I want to clarify I'm not attacking y'all in this comment. Even if we don't agree, I respect anyone who has a vocal discussion with me and tries to at least talk about specifics. But anybody who comes with character assassinations when they can't even back up what they talk about without going to a YouTube video to learn what to say or go to kpopvocalanalysis.net to quote their analysis at me, I have no respect for. Man up and make your case or don't bother with me at all.

 

Look I really don't feel like arguing with you, but if you don't like this thread or the way people address things on here according on our OBJECTIVE observations, you're welcome to leave or not comment at all. If you want to insult everyone else who's happened to constructively comment/discuss, that's crossing the line imo. Insinuating that we all magically can't read because we happen to disagree with your opinion is just rude. 

 

No one is forcing you to share your opinions here, you made that decision. If people have worked hard to present the correct info on this thread, then respect that. Of course people can make mistakes, but debunking commonly acknowledged points (especially when it comes the caliber of certain vocalists like Sohyang) is just unnecessary.

 

I'm also pretty sure that it's not anyone's intent to discourage or insult you from contributing, but please respect the credibility that people have on this thread when the knowledge they've presented is accurate. It's really not that hard to fight on this thread & I don't want to start 2018 on a bad note (like prob everyone else on here).

 

I hope you have a nice day.

Edited January 1, 2018 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

Speaking about Ailee's vowel shaping, I'm not that surprised about the whininess & weird shaping of syllables is the way it is bc she's from New Jersey & has a slight accent when she speaks......I grew up in the South (Georgia specifically), so I can hear that people in NJ seem to pronounce vowels with a closed throat

 

It's odd bc when she did the Les Mis cover, her vowels were much more open, but I think it was bc she was trying to imitate the shaping that classical/music theatrical singers have:

 

 

 

Tbh, even Jojo mentioned how she changed the way she spoke because of her vocal training....Jojo's also from the Northern US/New England area, so she had a regional way of speaking:

 

https://youtu.be/uIzomcVxe8c?t=25

 

At 0:30, she kinda talks about it & I see a similarity with Ailee bc she's also very shouty/yelly these days whenever she speaks (even at concerts, which is a no-no).

Edited January 4, 2018 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

To follow my previous post, I searched it up & yeah her vowel shaping is basically bc of her native accent.......this is from the Wikipedia blurb for Northern NJ accents:
 

Here, the /uË/ vowel remains very far back in the mouth.^[7] Like Inland Northern English but unlike New York City English, the accent backs /É›/ and fronts /É’/, so that both vowels are centralized, distinguished from each other only by height.^[8] However, unlike the Inland Northern accent, this accent uses the nasal short-a system.^[9]

 

 

I hope she honestly goes to a proper vocal coach/trainer who knows how to deal with fixing the phoetics/vowel/shaping habits, along with the other issues she has.

Edited January 4, 2018 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

Demi is still highly inconsistent and frankly, there's not much difference to her technique. B4 supported. Maybe C5 here and there for her. But her placement has gone awry from as low as G4. A3 would be the lowest she supports.

What's odd about this is that Ailee doesn't have much of a New Jersey accent when she...yknow, actually speak English. At least i don't hear it?

 

Sent from my GT-I9100G using OneHallyu mobile app

 

I personally can hear it time to time when she speaks English, it's not glaringly obvious but I can hear it, especially when it comes to the "eh" & "ee", "ah/a" vowels, etc. She does come across as a bit whiny sometimes, but maybe that's just me hearing it.

 

The way she pronounces "Eric" for example is one thing that was weird to me as someone from the South....she says it like "EH-ric" [as in the 1st syllable in the dwarf planet Eris] in instead of "AIR-ric", along with her tongue rolling the last r towards the back of her throat.

 

I think it's sorta of a thing I notice bc I grew up in an area with a completely different accent & my parents have distinctive accents as well (they're not native English speakers).

[geodeheart]

And Yuju/Taeyeon have generally larger resonance than most Kpop Idols too so I guess that's why Ailee's mix is positively praised, since she has really, really nice resonance in G4-C5 (C#5 sometimes). Yuju was pushing it out in the clip though, yet she was booming lol. Oh I wished she stayed that way, now she'd strain that note.

 

But why does Ailee's weird vowel thing start only (mostly) in the fifth octave? She still has that really large resonance below C5 and on that sometimes.

 

 

 

2.34 was really nice but all the other C5s in this is whiny lol,

 

Honestly I think it's because of the combination of her pushing & the shaping of her vocal tract when she pronounces certain syllables. She has the biggest issue with the vowels "Eeh" & "Aye, mostly because she forces her throat to close rather than stay open. This makes me doubt she had any formal or choral training because I was taught about the importance of having open vowels/syllables when singing from the get go (I did choir).

 

Ailee is more stylistic than other vocalists around her level imo, which is a shame because she has the talent & skill to improve but she's deadlocked into her bad habits. Her tone without the excessive chest is actually really nice, but for some reason, she's tricked herself into thinking she has a deeper/heavier voice than she really does. She talked about it once in a video around her DTM comeback.

 

I'm honestly worried that she's on the path to regression, her voice is a lot more fatigued & pushed than ever before. I know her voice isn't everyone's cup of tea, but she's skilled & it would be a shame if she lost her voice. :(

 

I don't think she'll ever get a proper vocal coach/training if she stays with her currently company (YMC), they don't even update her schedules or provide her with decent styling. They overworked her back to back in 2016 & 2017, so that's partially why she never really got that much vocal rest.

[geodeheart]

Hey there y'all, I haven't posted in this thread for a very long period of time but I've been backtracking for a while now.

 

It's bad to say this, but I've been losing interest in Kpop these days because I feel it isn't supplying as many quality vocalists as there was in the past (& other things). If anyone knows any groups from the new gen that has a decent vocal line, just share with me!

 

Anyway, I agree with all the Ailee shade in the past pages lmaoooo, I think that her lack of practice & consistent vocal training (along with constant fatigue because of her bad habits) is impacting her voice to sound more annoying? I really wish she could just get a qualified vocal coach.

 

Anyway, I've been getting into watching videos of David Phelps and wow he is of another level. My jaw always drops whenever I see clips of his support and resonance. 

 

Random question, but were/are Aretha Franklin and Patti LaBelle at a similar level in terms of technique? I believe they have different vocal types (I don't know for sure), but I wonder if they're neck in neck in their primes.

Edited June 17, 2018 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

Patti and Aretha? I don't know them well enough to say but I do know that Patti has shown depth in her belts in the 4th octave along with some of her head voice notes. More depth than the usual pop way. But she abandons this as she gets higher then it's...questionable. Aretha had a beautiful mix, her head voice was nice too but not Whitney/Beyonce level. I have no idea about their lower ranges.

 

Um, the ones that still have decent vocalists are Red Velvet, Gfriend, Seventeen, NCT (Taeil has shown promising moments till A4, Doyoung till G#4, Jaehyun till D4 is consistent and another guy I can't remember), Wanna One (not too bad but nothing Above Average), maybe Golden Boys? Is that their name? Lol. Yeah that's it. They're focusing on stylistic vocals now.

 

Sent from my Redmi Note 5A Prime using OneHallyu mobile app

 

Ah I see, I just wanted to ask about them both because they're both pretty notable singers and Aretha/Patti have shown some pretty great moments over the years.

 

Hm wouldn't Gfriend just have Yuju as a decent vocalist (no shade btw)? I don't know anyone else that has above average technique in the group except her.

 

I'll check out NCT, since I've been curious about SM vocalists for a while now. Wanna One isn't really my cup of tea to be honest, but it's just a preference thing.

 

It's sorta a shame that there aren't as many stronger vocalists as there was in the 1st/2nd gen :/ I guess the stylistic emphasis has carried over from Western music to Kpop. I'm glad EXO debuted at the time they did, their vocal line is the best out of 3rd gen male groups for sure.

[geodeheart]

Thanks for answering for question, I appreciate it guys! Either way, both are amazing vocalists. I was curious to see what their strong points and weaknesses were (and in comparison/contrast).

[geodeheart]

As a fan, I def agree that her best vocal progress was from 2012 to early 2015, after that, it seems like she's become stagnant and has seen a decrease in her ease/better ability to belt. However, I do think she has improved with her head voice, but it hasn't become extremely noticeable.

 

I really wish she could listen to fans that have voiced on social media (e.g. Twitter, which actually she stalks time to time) about her unhealthy habits. She's at a critical point now.

 

I'd hate to see what happened to Mariah at 29/30 when she got older and unexpectedly regressed (although Ailee has more dexterity & doesn't have nodules). She REALLY needs to change her approach. In fact, I had to take a long hiatus from stanning her because I felt really frustrated with her and her progress (not just vocally, but career-wise too).

 

I lowkey want to make a YouTube channel (not just for this only) and post a video & share it so she might see it :( She gets too many passes & she needs some constructive criticism. Otherwise, she won't be able to sing like she used to.

Edited June 26, 2018 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

yeah I don't think she met that girl after that video tbh lol but this falsetto/head voice tho is far better than her airy flopsetto.

 

So what you think is Ailee current supported range? D5 too?

 

I'm pretty sure her supported range is technically still at G3/E5-F5/B5, but it's getting less consistent with the ratio between support and tension/pushing.

[geodeheart]

if she isn't consistent shouldn't go down?

 

Well she is still able to support in the same range technically, but the quality of the support just isn't the same, if that makes sense. Depending on the day, sometimes her support is more optimal than others.

 

To be fair though, she often has a lot of events now where she sings most of her most difficult songs back to back. These days, she rarely ever uses pre-recorded vocals or lip-syncs like she used to avoid fatigue. I would blame that more on YMC.

 

However, I think personal choices like sleep (which I suspect she doesn't get much of these days) and hydration (she used to drink a lot of water before and now, not so much) have affected her, in addition to her fatigue & general decline of ease. This might be dumb to say, but I think she's also been going through something emotionally, so that also may tie into a lack of motivation to improve/practice, too.

 

Overall, I don't know if I would call it "regression" as of now (I've asked Ahmin & others about it before), but I would say her ease right now is on the decline when it comes her technique/ability.

Edited June 26, 2018 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

 

 

Random but as a Mariah fan, it's kinda eerie how similar Uji sounds in comparison to Mariah. She sounds more similar to Mariah here than any other cover of Open Arms that I've heard.

 

Uji's pretty underrated, does she have any recent performances? I know that she's been in a musical of some sort recently

[geodeheart]

I can attest to the fact that Celine is usually underrated the most in the vocal trinity of the 90s, Celine has her strong spots that often are overlooked.

 

Celine definitely had the healthiest and most consistent lower register in her prime. Plus, I agree that Celine's placement of her mix was healthier than Whitney's (who was still a bit too chest-dominant). But obviously, Whitney had more support in her upper belting range than Celine.

 

It's hard to say who was the best of the best, but Celine is underrated for her abilities (I can admit to not being aware of her full capabilities until recently).

 

 

The slayage of her midbelts though! Btw just asking, but what were Celine's best eras vocally? I know Mariah's was from 1993 to 1996 and Whitney's was from 1985 to 1991/2

Edited June 27, 2018 by geodeheart

[geodeheart]

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA83g8by46I

 

Hey everyone, I haven't been on OH or this thread in a long time, but I got stumbled across this thread again. I was wondering what everyone thinks about the info about this video about Mariah's voice? I feel the information here is kinda shaky at times (e.g. a claim that Mariah's actually a mezzo, her "prime" was during Charmbracelet, etc.) but some aspects seem to be true, like her voice being affected by stress and personal life issues according to particular eras.

I'm just pretty positive Mariah is just a soprano and the evidence in regards to speaking voice seems weak to me. For example, Tori Kelly is a soprano but she also has a deeper speaking voice. Additionally, much of Mariah's speaking voice being lower perhaps could be due to the nodules she acquired at a young age and the deepening of her voice as a result too.

But what do you guys think?

Edited August 23, 2021 by geodeheart