indigo 16,433 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 General question, what is he doing differently (other than singing in a very different vocal style) than most male kpop vocalist? Because to my ears, his tone and voice share some similarity to the kind of male voice most prominent in kpop? But while I find a lot them off putting (JYJ... that kid from Beast... Jonghyun, Naul), I find his voice incredibly wonderful. I'm not asking necessarily for if he's good or bad (it doesn't matter) just, what's different? Because honestly I've always been rather perplexed at why I'm so "NOPE" to so many male voices in kpop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Besides the fact that he's not singing a major scale and is singing a very unorthodox kind of music for USA and Korea? Not much, there's nothing that different apart from the musical composition he's singing and the different styles, the singing itself just sounded pretty nice, supported, resonant, controlled...but to say different? It was more of the style. Right, I don't mean he has a different way of vocalizing, he's still human (there is one thing they do with pitch modulation that speech pathologist study it because it's unique). But is he more supported, resonant and controlled then the guys I listed are normally? In studio or live. I'm so cool with different kinds of singing and then I try male kpop an I am just stumped. I dislike most of the talented ones pulling a term out of my butt I'd say they have "thin vocal profiles" (and it's not the highness because I like countertenors in Opera!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Oh he's not that much better, I mean you've listened to park hyo shin singing right? Oh, I wouldn't group him in to this, he's not kpop anyways. He's a little... Il Divo for my taste? But obviously skilled. Is he a tenor or baritone? I don't think he's much better technically either. Maybe I underestimate how much style matters in making a wonderful voice out of a slightly unpleasant tone. Kid from AKMU doesn't have great technique or tone but I think he's awesome. I think it shall remain a mystery for now. I have Kyungsoo and Jooyoung (who aren't as good but gifted with lush tones) so I'm cool. ty ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yes yes he's a tenor and taste matters for sure, so as long as your taste makes you happy! Haha kyungsoo has a beautiful voice! That's what thought but I've seen him called a baritone so idk. His voice is really pretty, so I hope he improves so he can protect it and do more with it. (b/c ngl sometimes I'm like "eeek" to how he can sound). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I have question about this little thing Region Spector does in her old song "Us" It happens just after 3:49, she does this weird air-y thing. I've always thought it was a really interesting embellishment. She really can't do it live though. 3:51 she can't, her voice gives out. 3:44 this is a bit better, still weak right? It sounds like the first most of the time live. So is it just something people shouldn't do? She did drop the number of them for the live version. Or in the studio version she recorded them separately and can't add them in live? It kinda reminds me of Tiffany's infamous bum Mr. Mr high note. Edited March 4, 2015 by Indigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 It was just a weak unsupported and not connected falsetto, in all of them. The difference is that in studio she'd have the chance to do it a couple of times until she gets it right, but live she only has one take to go. The falsetto in itself isn't unhealthy it's just not very well done, it's a bit weak and a bit flat but it's fine. It just isn't strong nor does it project very well through the mic. Basically he was singing C5's and Bb4's and then sustained an Eb5. To make it kind of clearer, think of Adele's Rolling in the deep "we could've had it ALL" that's a C5, she's a woman, he's a man. Eb5? That's Tiffany's Mr Mr high note, she's a girl, he's a guy. If girls yell Eb5's, a guy with more vocal skill won't be able to hit it better because it's much higher in his voice than it is in her voice. So even though Baekhyun is considerably better than Tiffany, Eb5 for Tiffany is not as high as it is for Baekhyun, so the problem is that Baekhyun was singing WAY out of his supported range. Also this is kind of an old audio track. ty ty The high notes SM has EXO do in some songs are something else. It's like they're going for some Bon Scott realness idgi idgi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Can you guys confirm if I understand this/ the term right? Melisma is wavering of notes, it can be with vibrato, the modulation of pitch, and in falsetto. Also why is musicianship used and not improvisation? Because before this thread I would have said musicianship is the actual ability to play a few instruments ( ) and putting your own/a new twist on a piece of music is improvisation. I would guess musicianship implies, less spontaneity? Where as improvisation can bring up images of like, jazz musician having a jam session. Creating everything on spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 A Melisma is a vocal run done on a vowel which is essentially all runs, not a wavering of notes. Most Melisma are not done with Vibrato because you move too quickly for a true vibrato to set in. A vibrato is what your voice produces on what is normally a sustained note. It's like a vibration. Musicianship and Improvisation are both used in singing. Musicianship is a very broad term it applies to many things. Ahh okay, okay. So you have to pick melisma or vibrato most of the time. So to confirm, if you change the vowel, it's not melisma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 No, because they're two different things. You don't really pick between the two. They have no relation to each other. Melismas and Vibratos are very different. No. Changing the vowel doesn't make it not a melisma. It doesn't matter what vowel it is; it is still a melisma. Really though, you can just call it a run. Oh, I didn't mean to imply that they're two sides of the same coin. I meant if a singer wanted to embellish a part with melisma, they couldn't also use vibrato, for that same part. Because of the voice moving too fast? Yeah, that's easier lol Thank you for answering ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Oh yeah~ Yeah you have to choose or the other lool. Well, it's not that the voice is moving too fast it is because the voice is moving between individual pitches at a quick pace therefore not giving the vocal folds(vocal cords) enough time to relax to produce a vibrato. *nodes head* yeah, too fast. lol no, I got it. It makes total sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 No that is not musicianship. Musicianship mostly refers to changing the genre of a song vocally and instrumentally through a new usage of adequate musical notes and rhythms that change the original melody and make it your own. Changing the voice she uses to sing with a mixed voice instead of a falsetto is not musicianship, instead that'd fall under musicality. She chose to instead of keeping her voice light and weak, to instead add a slightly louder dynamic. The melody was not changed, only the voice, volume and quality of notes were changed. She sang the same exact melody, same rhythm and notes, so no. That is not musicianship, it's called musicality. Soyou: Too throaty in the belts, too much usage of her swallowing muscles. Nasal, airy falsetto, too disconnected. Good pitch, low notes were a bit too airy, didn't project well. Hyorin was good and resonant throughout, good C#5's and Eb5's, low notes seemed projected but I can't tell due to the noisy fans. As for musicianship, yes you could call that musicianship, it wasn't impressive but it was nice that she sang along the backing track. haha you answered my other question ^^ you guys have a lot of patience with him lol #saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 What question would that be? LOL and yes we do. He is quite a handful. improvisation vs musicianship. I didn't really get what made musicianship a more suitable/precise word to describe changing a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) It's part of like....preparation. It's music, it's part of what makes a musician more than just a player. It's about using your instrument to enrich the music, so more so than improvisation, it's improvisation done right with accuracy, creativity and choices of notes that make the music more interesting. Yeah, I figured it's have something to do with being more, thoughtful. "adequate musical notes and rhythms that change the original melody" explains it. Like you can just stop and go "whooo whooo ooooh ooooooh" in a song and boom improvisation but it will suck if you don't know what your doing. All Big Bang performances are heavily improvised~ Edited March 30, 2015 by Indigo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I mean there's bad musicianship where you're either 1. Showing off and not adding to the music. 2. Trying to add to the song and instead straining, messing up and going off rhythm/pitch. Right, totally get that. It not a positive thing in of itself, it still has to be done well or to a notable degree 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Edith Piaf was rlly great, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Oh no don't worry, I have two other female vocalists who will soon join Bom at the bottom, I just hadn't listened to them well enough before to be sure of where to put them lol Isn't it funny? Nobody thinks she's okay, either they think she's amazing or that she sucks, I feel like that's the same with Taeyeon. Then other vocalists, everybody knows they're good, like Hyorin and Ailee, and others everybody thinks they're good when they ain't, like Solji. Wendy a mezzo? I always thought of her a Soprano, Sojin also doesn't come off to me as a mezzo but we haven't analyzed either yet, so I can't account for Sojin at all but Wendy I was almost pretty sure she was a Soprano. Krystal's voice seems soprano-y to me, but it could also be due to how untrained her voice is, since she literally sounds like a lower version of Jessica, so what you're saying could make sense to an extent actually. I don't really know that many mezzo-sopranos in K-pop actually, the few I know are like Lee Hi and Yoobin. Well if you're more comfortable sending something over messages, that works too ^ ^ I don't think Tae is that divisive. Speaking as someone who is not a fan of her vocals, I don't think anyone think she's horrible at singing (unless they have super high standards and then why r u in pop?). Most of peoples issues with her are artistry. Which is lacking. It's fine for euro/asian electro pop.(I think she sounds good in CMIYC) Not so good when she tries r&b or anything jazzy or anything too genre lmao. It's sones trying to overrate her that gets the more anti-ish push back imo. People would look you straight in the eyes and tell you she's every bit as good as Ailee and Hyorin if they could Also here's Sojin singing Catherine Zeta-Jones's All That Jazz And CZJ is a mezzo right? So idk if that will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 What are thoughts on Lim Kim? She goes for mellow jazzy vocals has a really unique tone and singing style Song starts at 0:31 In LOVE 1:44 - 2:30 she sounds like she has trouble with her breath? She sounds out of breath at times and she keeps sucking one in before she sings the next line. idk if that's poor singing or just a bad habit. She didn't do it in Santa Baby because there's a pause between each line so she can catch her breath, right? These are from two years ago, she kinda went away and re-invented herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Range wise she was singing in a very comfortable range so support wise she did pretty good. Her diction was pretty good, just a couple of words she fumbled on but that was fine. You're right about the jazzy sound. She pushes a lot of air through her vocal folds to create her style, I don't think that's going to fair well for her in the long run, but whatever. Also because she's pushing air her larynx goes up a bit. In the second video..she did fine. Sure she was taking a lot of breaths, but that was very intentional or she just didn't realize it. Many people breathe after a measure or two maybe a couple of words, because they just aren't really being conscious of their breathing. I know this is going to off as an after thought, because it was...she's not very nasal either. Ty ^^ (I saw this but was in a hotel with chappy wifi so couldn't respond) To link to the post that just went up, Lim and IU'S airy-ness is not ideal because it gives them less control so they're more likely to do little bits of damage that can add up? I'm glad re: her breathing. I'm not to crazy about it but if it's not bad and she likes it, I'll deal haha She reminds of Norah Joans. And general questions, the "damage" people talk about with strain and what not is scar tissue right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Sam Smith has a vocal cord haemorrhage? yikes due to no rest, or poor singing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) And yet people like to tell me he has good vocal technique. Well if he did, this wouldn't be happening. It's due to poor technique + fatigue, I would assume. He sounds like someone who relies on mistakes to add "soul" to his singing? Not a fan of his music, but hopefully he cleans up his voice after recovery because that's sad. Edited May 8, 2015 by Indigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Question about Bom, if she could connect her notes together and improve her breathing (just those two things) how much would that change her ranking for you guys? Because reading, yeah I can def see how Jiyoon's as bad or worse. But her singing is never as disruptive as Bom's. It kinda feels like Jiyoon and the others as bad as her as just plain bad. But Bom's issues are kinda unique? So more audibly alarming (or attracting, to others) Also, when you update Kyuhyun's... I think you should update his picture in the header. Because that outfit is... he has lovely pics in his solo's booklet haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Curious about Philip Bailey, one of the main vocal for Earth Wind and Fire, known for his falsetto and very high notes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0bpxeVxVmE No timestamps because compilation. He was 26 in the first clip (in the space outfit lol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS5t76ADmng He's 60 in this video. Bit more examples of the "wailing sections" with some difference from the videos [spoiler] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL2MsEbrtgI starting at 2:57 3:04 - 3:08 he seems to go flat? Sharp? kinda off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vunc_fh9AQA @3:30 3:41 is notable because he was in falsetto and descended. [/spoiler] how well did he/does he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Curious about Philip Bailey, one of the main vocal for Earth Wind and Fire, known for his falsetto and very high notes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0bpxeVxVmE No timestamps because compilation. He was 26 in the first clip (in the space outfit lol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS5t76ADmng He's 60 in this video. Bit more examples of the "wailing sections" with some difference from the videos [spoiler] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL2MsEbrtgI starting at 2:57 3:04 - 3:08 he seems to go flat? Sharp? kinda off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vunc_fh9AQA @3:30 3:41 is notable because he was in falsetto and descended. [/spoiler] how well did he/does he do? *cries* I thought you guys would get a kick out of him :rlytearpls: jk idt anyone saw. I'm interested in seeing how good he is at this because I think kpop males are aiming for this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Okay, you have to keep in mind that the biggest thing to tell voice types apart is their natural passaggi, so where their voices switch or transition into mixed voice and head voice, as opposed to how dark or heavy they are. The heaviness and darkness will tell you their specific fach but that's for classically trained vocalists. If you sing pop, most of the time you sing with a different technique that's lighter in tone regardless of voice type, so some baritones, like myself, will sound bright and light but still retain some darkness and pressure, also you can hear where the voice naturally seems to be in the "belting" area for a baritone...which is different for a tenor. Now, there's no doubt that both Baekhyun and Kyungsoo are tenors, now the difference in their voices is natural tone plus the way they sing, Baekhyun sings with more resonance and a fuller voice, Kyungsoo is more R&B so he sings a little lighter, airier in tone but to me, actually, both sound quite similar in weight, as opposed to Chen, who has a much brighter tone. Now I'm not sure if there was a question in that paragraph you wrote, but if there was I hope I answered it. On the topic, Lay's the same as Ryeowook right? He def sounds like he has the lightest voice in EXO. And what about Wendy and Seulgi. Wendy's voice sounds a little lighter and brighter, it has more of a "ring." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigo 16,433 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Lay's the same as Ryeowook as in his voice type? They're all light lyric tenors, I mean the vocalist are. Wendy's voice is just that way because it's more developed. Weight. Chen's lighter than BaekSoo, and then Lay sounds lighter than Chen. But I know his voice isn't well trained at all. Wendy's voice is really pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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