France will get tough new anti-terror law (read: more power to the police, arrest or search without need for judges.. France becoming facist??)

[letsrewindit]

President Emmanuel Macron’s government wants to end a 14-month 'state of emergency' in France, but at the same time integrate several of its exceptional anti-terrorism powers into common law, alarming judges and civil liberty groups.

 

Warrant-less property searches and house arrests, two controversial measures currently used by French security officials under special state of emergency powers, could become ordinary policing practices under a new bill being sponsored by the country’s new government.

 

The text was submitted for review to the Council of State, a body providing legal advice to France’s executive branch, on Wednesday, with excerpts published by leading French daily Le Monde. “Almost all of the state of emergency measures will become the law of the land,†the newspaper, which had seen a copy of the bill, wrote.

 

France granted the police special powers in the wake of multiple deadly terrorist attacks over the past two and a half years. Former president François Hollande originally declared the state of emergency in November 2015, when jihadists killed 130 people in simultaneous attacks across the Paris area.

 

The new bill would also normalise banning protest marches, shutting down places of worship suspected of sharing extremist views, forcing people under house arrest to give police access to their electronic devices and using electronic tagging for purposes of surveillance.

 

Police could implement these measures without oversight of a judge, with authority transferred to the police prefecture and the interior ministry.

 

“There is only one difference: these measures would now only apply to terrorism,†Radio France International wrote on Thursday. “But the very essence of the state of emergency remains the same, judicial authorities will be relegated, and must only be kept informed [of decisions].â€

 

‘Exploiting’ measures

 

Judges and legal advocates immediately cried foul following Le Monde’s revelation on Thursday.

 

“They tell us we’re ending the state of emergency, but they are actually making it eternal. It’s an intellectual scam,†Marie-Jane Ody, vice president of a prominent union representing judges, told French newspaper Le Figaro.

 

“Imagine a fascist-like group rises to power. All the legal instruments would be in place to commit abuses,†Ody added.

 

The League of Human Rights rejected the notion the proposed bill would only affect suspected terrorist plotters, saying the state of emergency has already been exploited by the previous French government, to curtail union members and activists.

 

“These measures would trample individual and shared liberties and would lead us toward an authoritarian state,†the League said in a statement on its website. “Far from relating only to terrorist acts, these measures would be applied to a wide range of offences. Anyone could become a victim of arbitrary decisions.â€

 

Last month Amnesty International accused the French government of exploiting the state of emergency to reject more than 150 petitions for public protests in recent months.

 

There were also concerns expressed over the constitutional basis for Macron’s security reforms and inconsistencies with international treaties to which France is legally bound.

[letsrewindit]

Paging Macron’s supporters

[ディエイト]

Macron's party is centrist tho. 

[abra]

Macron isn't left, if anything he's slightly right of center

[letsrewindit]

Macron's party is centrist tho.

 

  

Macron isn't left, if anything he's slightly right of center

Point taken.

[nicophos]

wow sort of a martial law... 

[Chiaka]

If that stops terror attacks why not?

Is it better to just do nothing and cry when people die?

[denizen mars]

 

If that stops terror attacks why not?

Is it better to just do nothing and cry when people die?

 

 

so you'd rather have another gitmo, is what you're saying. Because that's what the patriot act accomplished in america after 9/11. spoiler alert, it didn't help us win the war on terror. perhaps you're too young to remember that though.

[musicboxprincess]

so you'd rather have another gitmo, is what you're saying. Because that's what the patriot act accomplished in america after 9/11. spoiler alert, it didn't help us win the war on terror. perhaps you're too young to remember that though.

It may not end the terror attacks but it might lessen the frequency which is better than trending #prayforxxx everytime an attack occur without actually doing anything about it.  

[Liliana]

It may not end the terror attacks but it might lessen the frequency which is better than trending #prayforxxx everytime an attack occur without actually doing anything about it.

 

To be honest, this law won't really lessen it because of two reasons:

 

1)A lot of the attackers from the terror attacks done in France come from outside France, for example Belgium. Since this law will only be taken in France, they can't do anything about potential attackers in other countries, which makes the country still vulnerable for terror attacks.

2)A lot of terrorists are made because of hate and frustration against their government and police. Let's say you are gonna search someone's house because they could be a potential terrorist without proper reason or clues. It means this person could be innocent, and when that person is innocent and they think they have been unjustified by both police and the law, they grow resentment towards the government and police. This could also effect the environment into resentment. They can become vulnerable and people that wanna create terrorist can reach them and help them become one.

 

The problem with the France police is that they arrest someone and then let them be free too easily and later on the news says that they is a Terror attack done by someone "already known with the police". They should be more strict with the people they arrest.

[Solfa]

France is in an emergency state now, they are having way too many terrorist attacks. Maybe the solution sounds extreme to you, but it's against an extreme problem. What should they do instead, continue to change facebook filters and light up buldings in solidarity?

[Trixbox]

So France will always be in state of emergency with Habeas Corpus suspended?

 

Cool!! You created a semi-police state.

[JiMiJu]

So they basically want to make the state of emergency permanent.

[Arthur Morgan]

Good move. Fuck this human rights bullshit we need to go back to the days of Socrates

[Deea]

A good decision tbh,and people need to stop complaining about this.

[m_allegretti]

Good move. Fuck this human rights bullshit we need to go back to the days of Socrates

 

Socrates was to put to death for going against the State tho? IIRC he was even exiled by a tyrannical gov't taking hold of Athens but I'd have to check...

 

At least if Plato's Apology is correct.

[Arthur Morgan]

Socrates was to put to death for going against the State tho? IIRC he was even exiled by a tyrannical gov't taking hold of Athens but I'd have to check...

 

At least if Plato's Apology is correct.

Yes. What I meant to say is the rules of Plato's Republic

[delirium]

There is no simple or easy solution. I don't know. At best, governments are trying to slow the flood before it's all out war. Marches, "One Love" concerts, mandatory social media acknowledgements is all that people can come up with while asking their leaders to do something but when they decide on a plan, we panic.  

 

 

 

 

“Imagine a fascist-like group rises to power. All the legal instruments would be in place to commit abuses,â€

 

I feel like people have been cautioning others about this forever in some Western nations but it's like talking to a brick wall. Our fav. party won't always have the power. Eventually it will go to the side that we blame for all of the troubles in the world and when that day arrives, we'll be the ones complaining about our lack of rights and not the other side. It's like what happened in the U.S. Obama-era, one side complained that freedom of speech was starting to suffer and the other side laughed. Then Trump became leader and now the side that laughed is complaining about how lack of free speech has increased and the other side is laughing and saying, "deal with it".

[m_allegretti]

Yes. What I meant to say is the rules of Plato's Republic

 

You mean a supposed meritocracy that is actually a police state where artists are persecuted...

[Arthur Morgan]

You mean a supposed meritocracy that is actually a police state where artists are persecuted...

meritocracy? Yes . Persecuting artists? Up for debate. From what i learned Plato never said he wanted to persecute artists, he just said it takes people away and distracts them from the real purpose of life

[m_allegretti]

A good solution - and perhaps France has already begun to move this way - is to enforce secualrism. Children should understand why science has improved their lives so much, how evidence and reason must be the foundation of a democracy.

 

It's okay for people to believe in "god", just like it's okay for people on 4chan/x to supposedly have succubus girl friends but you can't have these imaginary friends influence government policy based on the idea that "god" spoke to people.

 

Everyone already in the West should enforce this and when they talk to their friends at school who are religious make sure they know that no evidence exists that could substantiate their imaginary friend god. This way these conflicts will diminish.

[m_allegretti]

meritocracy? Yes . Persecuting artists? Up for debate. From what i learned Plato never said he wanted to persecute artists, he just said it takes people away and distracts them from the real purpose of life

 

So the government should decide what is the "real purpose of life"?

 

(Note I don't think Plato was writing a real theory of government, rather the Republic is meant to be an allegory of the ordered being who is in touch with the Good.)

[Arthur Morgan]

So the government should decide what is the "real purpose of life"?

 

(Note I don't think Plato was writing a real theory of government, rather the Republic is meant to be an allegory of the ordered being who is in touch with the Good.)

 

no, that's a loaded question

 

What i simply mean is i don't believe in Democracy as it created the likes of hitler and trump. I believe in a system where only qualified and skilled people trained in politics ,philosophy ,etc should be able to decide. Maybe the other positions in the government can be decided by the population, but not the key ones. thats how i view things , thats how the ''fathers of the western world'' viewed things 

[doki-doki]

France is in an emergency state now, they are having way too many terrorist attacks. Maybe the solution sounds extreme to you, but it's against an extreme problem. What should they do instead, continue to change facebook filters and light up buldings in solidarity?

This, sometimes measures like this need to be taken to protect the greater good.

[Kazaewin]

It's basically the same in Mindanao where terrorism problems is worse and yet people are crying and bitching about it , and now it's suddenly ok since France is doing.