Should some high schools have admission requirements like entrance exams and grades?

[Whiteknight]

I have been reading up on how the schooling system works in Asia, and apparently some of their good high school require entrance exams to get into. I feel that as an U.S citizen there should be more funding into education. I am not saying we neglect broken down schools, but there should be some consideration into offering specialized schools like these. Of course the curriculum of these schools will be a bit more intense, as the focus of these schools would be to feed students into the University system. These schools aren't private though. They are funded by the district. These are essentially magnet schools. The school would also look at the student's middle school grades to make a decision.

There is a similar school in the U.S called Lowell High School in San Francisco, California. The academic achievement of these students are very impressive. One of the reasons why they are doing so well is probably because they are surrounded by intelligent and hard-working peers. The High School is by far the best school in the entire bay area. No school within the proximity can even hold a candle to it. I think we can learn something from this school.

[RYUZAKI]

My highschool do. Because they only accept 60 people each year (it's a boarding school), they had to hold exams for students who want to apply. english, math, chem, physics and IQ test.

 

 

Source: am asian

[Whiteknight]

My highschool do. Because they only accept 60 people each year (it's a boarding school), they had to hold exams for students who want to apply. english, math, chem, physics and IQ test.

 

 

Source: am asian

Do you want more schools like what I mentioned in the OP?

[YNRA]

no

most of the kids who go to highly stressful schools hate their lives. parents would force their kids into them anyways or just buy out spots 

[RYUZAKI]

Do you want more schools like what I mentioned in the OP?

Yes. Because i thought it was normal lmao.

 

There is no such thing like that in america? No entrance exam?

 

Then how do you get in HS? Fill out the form or smth like that?

[Lil Ayy Big Gay]

Re-edit cause I misread~

 

I went to a ~nerdy~ middle school myself,

 

It was also considered a public school, but if you wanted to get in you had to write 3 2,000 word essays on different things, and go through a series of interviews.

 

So, from my experience, yes. If you go to a normal public school you might not find it as challenging so this a way students can challenge themselves. Also, my school specialized in the sciences so it could also be readying students for careers in a field.

[Whiteknight]

I went to a ~nerdy~ middle school where students had a lot of achievements, top of the district but they didn't have an admission price.

 

It was also considered a public school, but if you wanted to get in you had to write 3 2,000 word essays on different things, and go through a series of interviews.

 

So, from my experience, no. Wealth shouldn't dictate if you can get into a good school, your intelligence should.

Did you read the OP? There wouldn't be any tuition involved with these schools. It is funded by the district.

[Jessica's G-string]

Mine does. I think there should be more especially with the area I live in. My school is a college prep school, and the kids here need this type of school.

[Lil Ayy Big Gay]

Did you read the OP? There wouldn't be any tuition involved with these schools. It is funded by the district.

Nah, I skimmed, sorry lol

 

And these exist already since I went to one. I don't know there frequency though but there was 3 in my district.

[Only 1 U Need Connoisseur]

a lot of high school near me do lmao. there is public school, then specialized schools that have entrance exam or interview process. you need to apply. 

[A Hamster Named Loneliness]

Funny that you mention Lowell High School, as two of my housemates when I was in college went to that high school, and someone from the kpop club at the university I went to also went there. They never said anything about entrance exams to get into their school though. 

 

Here in SoCal, we have Oxford Academy in Cypress, CA where the only way to get in is to pass the entrance exam, and only kids who are entering 7th grade are accepted--those entering 8th grade are only accepted if someone drops out, and no one entering 9th grade onward are accepted (grade levels at Oxford Academy are from 7-12). And once you're in, you have to keep up your grades otherwise they kick you out and you have to continue your education

 

However, just because a school is a magnet school or requires entrance exams doesn't necessarily make it good. Some students get really stressed out because of the competitive environment. The school district my high school was part of also had great high schools and none of them are magnet schools, they were all public schools and all had reputation for excellent education, better than the state's average (something my city really prides itself on). 

[solis]

some schools (usually private or more reputable ones) already do this don't they?

but i don't think public schools should have them

[A Hamster Named Loneliness]

Yes. Because i thought it was normal lmao.

 

There is no such thing like that in america? No entrance exam?

 

Then how do you get in HS? Fill out the form or smth like that?

 

It's been 10 years since i was in high school, but from what I remember, at my high school, all you had to do was have your parents register you at a high school that's within your district and the day before your first day of school, you pick up your student ID card and class schedule and have your photo taken for the yearbook. 

[Whiteknight]

some schools (usually private or more reputable ones) already do this don't they?

but i don't think public schools should have them

 

You don't think all public schools should have them? Or just public schools in general?

[Whiteknight]

Funny that you mention Lowell High School, as two of my housemates when I was in college went to that high school, and someone from the kpop club at the university I went to also went there. They never said anything about entrance exams to get into their school though. 

 

Here in SoCal, we have Oxford Academy in Cypress, CA where the only way to get in is to pass the entrance exam, and only kids who are entering 7th grade are accepted--those entering 8th grade are only accepted if someone drops out, and no one entering 9th grade onward are accepted (grade levels at Oxford Academy are from 7-12). And once you're in, you have to keep up your grades otherwise they kick you out and you have to continue your education

 

However, just because a school is a magnet school or requires entrance exams doesn't necessarily make it good. The school district my high school was part of also had great high schools and none of them are magnet schools, they were all public schools and all had reputation for excellent education, better than the state's average (something my city really prides itself on). 

What makes Lowell so great then.

 

I feel that you can get hard-working and smart students if you look at them based on their grades and exam scores.

[asdfjhl]

Wouldn't I.B schools be similar? The kids that want the challenge or a head start can just take the I.B classes or AP? 

[A Hamster Named Loneliness]

What makes Lowell so great then.

 

I feel that you can get hard-working and smart students if you look at them based on their grades and exam scores.

 

How should I know, all I know is that they went to Lowell and that they always got excited when they met another student at my university who went to Lowell because apparently it meant they could swap high school memories. I never felt the need to pry into their high school life. 

[sakurahanabira]

Yes. Because i thought it was normal lmao.

There is no such thing like that in america? No entrance exam?

Then how do you get in HS? Fill out the form or smth like that?

No, you just go on to high school like you do middle school. There's no entrance exam except at a few certain schools.

[solis]

You don't think all public schools should have them? Or just public schools in general?

i think there needs to be at least a few schools for students that can't get into the schools with higher requirements if that makes sense?

[HellForLife]

 

I have been reading up on how the schooling system works in Asia, and apparently some of their good high school require entrance exams to get into. I feel that as an U.S citizen there should be more funding into education. I am not saying we neglect broken down schools, but there should be some consideration into offering specialized schools like these. Of course the curriculum of these schools will be a bit more intense, as the focus of these schools would be to feed students into the University system. These schools aren't private though. They are funded by the district. These are essentially magnet schools. The school would also look at the student's middle school grades to make a decision.

 

There is a similar school in the U.S called Lowell High School in San Francisco, California. The academic achievement of these students are very impressive. One of the reasons why they are doing so well is probably because they are surrounded by intelligent and hard-working peers. The High School is by far the best school in the entire bay area. No school within the proximity can even hold a candle to it. I think we can learn something from this school.

 

We have a few public schools in NYC that do this (The specialized high schools, every single one requires that you score well on a citywide standardized test to get in)

 

So I attended one of the schools (the best one) and in my personal opinion it had two different merits. One is that there's a huge difference between being in classes with random kids, and being in classes with the best of the city. In my middle school, it was easy to just cruise by and not study, just pay attention in class and do your work and get easy perfect scores on everything. In high school this is assuredly not the case. It's a bit of a shock going from no care in the world to having to grind your life away just to get average grades, but I do appreciate the experience because it really served as a good wake up call to me to get my shit together and actually take school seriously, which turned out to be very beneficial in college. Secondly, by being surrounded by some of the smartest people, you really end up making a lot of great connections that ended up being very valuable later in life. It was a rough experience but it was one that I wouldn't take back.

 

Now, that being said, do I think this is a perfect system? Nah, not really. For one, because it was purely based on one exam to get in, it's very common for people who weren't good students but were amazing test takers to get in, then subsequently do terribly because they weren't capable of handling the work load. For another, the test itself covers material that isn't really taught in schools, which means people who succeed tend to be the ones who have money for classes and textbooks and whatnot to learn from, so it's biased against the economically disadvantaged. Actually its generated a lot of controversy in recent years due to the student population being overwhelmingly Asian and having very few black/latino students. You can make your own assumptions for why that is, I won't get into my viewpoint on that right now, but it does create a rather uniform environment. Comparatively, my college is fairly evenly distributed across all races, and while I wouldn't argue that my college classmates are as smart as my high school classmates, I do think I've met a much broader range of people being here and have gotten access to viewpoints across many different lifestyles, so it's got its own perks.

 

All in all, I am not against the idea (actually I think it's good to have a form of vetting for schools), but it isn't a perfect methodology. Arguably a more holistic method would be better, but as it currently stands this is how it works for my high school, and for the foreseeable future I don't think that will change.

[skylark_dr]

Yes & no. I myself have attended selective schools from grades 7-12. The bonus points are the competitive environment & peer pressure to keep you moving forward. But they also give a side effect of excessive stress & sometimes unhealthy competition too. I often get talked behind my back because I'm among those kids who often achieve top scores 

[Whiteknight]

i think there needs to be at least a few schools for students that can't get into the schools with higher requirements if that makes sense?

No of course. Magnet schools are just specialized schools. The ones I am talking about are magnet schools. There would still be normal high schools.

[Whiteknight]

We have a few public schools in NYC that do this (The specialized high schools, every single one requires that you score well on a citywide standardized test to get in)

 

So I attended one of the schools (the best one) and in my personal opinion it had two different merits. One is that there's a huge difference between being in classes with random kids, and being in classes with the best of the city. In my middle school, it was easy to just cruise by and not study, just pay attention in class and do your work and get easy perfect scores on everything. In high school this is assuredly not the case. It's a bit of a shock going from no care in the world to having to grind your life away just to get average grades, but I do appreciate the experience because it really served as a good wake up call to me to get my shit together and actually take school seriously, which turned out to be very beneficial in college. Secondly, by being surrounded by some of the smartest people, you really end up making a lot of great connections that ended up being very valuable later in life. It was a rough experience but it was one that I wouldn't take back.

 

Now, that being said, do I think this is a perfect system? Nah, not really. For one, because it was purely based on one exam to get in, it's very common for people who weren't good students but were amazing test takers to get in, then subsequently do terribly because they weren't capable of handling the work load. For another, the test itself covers material that isn't really taught in schools, which means people who succeed tend to be the ones who have money for classes and textbooks and whatnot to learn from, so it's biased against the economically disadvantaged. Actually its generated a lot of controversy in recent years due to the student population being overwhelmingly Asian and having very few black/latino students. You can make your own assumptions for why that is, I won't get into my viewpoint on that right now, but it does create a rather uniform environment. Comparatively, my college is fairly evenly distributed across all races, and while I wouldn't argue that my college classmates are as smart as my high school classmates, I do think I've met a much broader range of people being here and have gotten access to viewpoints across many different lifestyles, so it's got its own perks.

 

All in all, I am not against the idea (actually I think it's good to have a form of vetting for schools), but it isn't a perfect methodology. Arguably a more holistic method would be better, but as it currently stands this is how it works for my high school, and for the foreseeable future I don't think that will change.

What about if the schools look at the student's middle grades when making their admission decisions?

[Decretum]

Privatized and Boarding schools should have admission requirements, if they feel the need to. Public schools, however, should not. If a person lived somewhere in a big city, such as LA, there are more choices. However, in places, such as where I grew up, there is only one public high school, and the next nearest one is about an hour away.

[HellForLife]

What about if the schools look at the student's middle grades when making their admission decisions?

There are schools in NYC that do this (actually my sister attended one of them, funnily enough). The main fault with this, and with a lot of other approaches I've heard before is that this works under the assumption that all middle schools are equal. If every middle school has the same quality of teaching and funding, then sure why not? But taking say a middle school from deep within the ghetto where the teachers are underpaid, dealing with some awful students and incapable of handling such a class, it's a lot easier of an environment to get good grades in. In comparison, looking at a school from a good neighborhood, well-funded, competent teachers, you end up with a lot of great students, but as a result you also end up with harder material and harder classes. So a kid who gets like a C average in a good school could get an A average in a bad school, and it's hard to differentiate between whether the kid is a good student or the school itself isn't that great. This is actually why standardized tests exist, so that they can set a baseline on something to compare kids from all schools with. Give them all the same test and see how they score and that shows you who really knows their stuff. 

 

But with that being said, standardized testing has its own problems where you wind up with instructors "teaching to the test." In other words, they try to take kids and teach them how to be good test takers, rather than how to actually learn material. It works, and kids pass tests just fine... then they get to a point where there are no tests anymore, and now they aren't actually that prepared for doing the work they just know how to take a test. 

 

Then the solution seems rather straightforward, right? Just use both. The standardized testing gives you a good baseline for students to look at, then you can go to grades and see who's the good students out of those. This is a perfectly adequate solution, especially in a smaller city where there aren't that many kids to begin with. Problems start to arise once you get to larger cities. Like in NYC, the top high schools all have TONS of applications from all over the city, and you start to run into problems because when there are that many students, it turns out there's a lot of people who can both score well on exams and get good grades in middle school. This is the problem that colleges face as well, which is why they always look for additional criteria like essays, interviews, research/work experience, etc etc and at that point it just becomes a real crapshoot.

 

Let me just state, because I know I've been going off about problems with the system all throughout these posts, that testing students and judging by middle school grades aren't inherently a bad idea. For the majority of students, it is good enough that it would serve its purpose well. The issues that I bring up are ones I mention because "good enough" isn't really something to settle for. For every student where it works out, there will be students who got lost in the shuffle, or weren't ever really in the running to begin with. That's why it's always good to consider other options that will try to address these issues. 

 

I'm gonna bring up a high school that consistently ranks among the best in the nation, despite being a public school; Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology. It's a magnet school in Virginia that uses four different criteria to judge if a student is fit for the school; an admissions test, middle school grades, essays, and letters of recommendation from qualified adults. As stated, it's a system that works very very well. It's one of the best schools in the nation, produces a lot of top quality students and consistently sends students to top universities. Probably the best example of a holistic approach that works very well. Even still, this isn't a perfect system. Why? The same problem that arises with my high school; the student population is something like 65% Asian, with black/latino students making up maybe 4% of the student body. In comparison, among every high school in the area, the black/latino student population is about 30-40%. So if 30-40% of all students are black/latino, why are so few of them making it into the best school? Is it because of some inherent issue with black/latino people that makes them not as good? Probably not. But, when you look at the statistics, it turns out that a lot of black/latino people are also the majority of people that live in poor, underfunded areas and thus start off in poor and underfunded schools. As it turns out, when you start out from the very beginning in hard conditions, it's very difficult to catch up later in life. Maybe there's lots of potential students within that group that could've been in Thomas Jefferson, but because they weren't ever given the opportunity to develop into good students from the start, they're basically out of the running now when they grow up. So how do you rectify for this? More importantly, if you use some method of correcting for it (Affirmative Action?) now you have the issue from my earlier post about students who are incredibly unprepared for the increased workload and competition within the top schools, and they don't do well either. So what now?

 

Okay I wrote a lot more than I planned to LOL... but basically, the TL;DR is that while you can definitely implement criteria like testing or middle school grades to judge how good a student is, this won't always guarantee that you get the best possible students and often you can miss out on a lot of potentially great students in the process.