As A Baritone Voice Who Likes K-Pop (Semi-rant)

[Wallalah]

Okay so I'm going to say a lot of things about vocal pedagogy that some of you guys might not understand but whatever, feel free to say what you know about and ask questions about what you don't understand. I'll try to relpy if I can

As a male Baritone, I'm heavily triggered (LOL!) by the fact that the Pop industry, the one that releases the music that I love the most (Pop, R&B, Hip-Hop flavour in general), has SO MANY songs written for these god damn TENORS. 
A Tenor is a guy who possesses a naturally high singing range, whilst a Baritone is the one who possesses the mellower, rounder, weightier and darker voice. Most men are Baritones. We Baritones also have a lower range, when you talk about breathing, comfort, places where you switch singing register (ways of singing to simplify). Aside from those two voice types there's also the rarer Bass, Baritone being the most common. 
The same thing applies to female singers, though their voices are (H to L): Soprano; Mezzo-Soprano; Alto

Tenor e.c.: 

Baekhyun: (Before you ask, yes he's bae and I'm a straight guy in addition LMAO): Vocal range: F#2-C#6

Shownu: (For my Monbebe squad): Vocal range: ???-??? EDIT: Eh no, after listening to about ten or so clips of him live, I'm confident to say that I was wrong and that Shownu is a Baritone. Wonho seems to be closer to a Tenor than Shownu



Baritones (Giving the less obvious examples):
Key: (SHINee officially got me into K-Pop): Vocal range: D2-Bb5

Hyunsik (MULTI-INSTRUMENTAL): ???-Bb5 (possibly)


Side-note: I hope the previous hotness didn't kill all you girls, be glad that I didn't post shirtless Jonghyun or Jimin (ew...) 

Back to the main subject: 
So as the songs in the Pop industry (of course, K-Pop) are written mainly for Tenors to sing, we often get these strikingly "amazing" high notes belted out by the lead singers. The dumb thing for me is that though I LOVE these songs, I could NEVER reach them naturally well. My range is a low placed one, going from D2 to B5, and sungability stops at G#5 already ! I'm unluckier than most of my fellow Baritones like Siwon, who can reach Bb5 with A LOT LESSER struggle than me despite his weak vocal technique and approach. 

I hope I really am not the only one in this (at least we have Ahmin of kpopvocalanalysis LOL, but he can sing quite high). Though I know that a good Baritone should be wayyyy better than a bad Tenor, the popularity of the songs and even MY OWN TASTE say otherwise. God, it's so hard because there are very few Baritone songs that appeal to me and I always want to use Tenor songs to train with.

What's worse is that you have Tenors with straight up bad vocal technique like Henry from SJ-M who uses no real breath support and sings in a throat based, nearly instinctive manner. And then we have Leo from VIXX who literally SCREAMS his high notes, despite having the natural capability to do so well.

Henry singing with a tight throat, which results into a blocked sound:

Leo... being Leo, as in pulling his larynx all the way up, creating a rather unpleasant sound to hear especially live:

In contrast to that, there are the try-hard Baritones like Hyunsik and Key, whom I stated above as less obvious Baritones... because they try to sing WAY OUT OF THEIR COMFORT RANGE and thus the result is intense straining, pushing, high larynx, throat tension, etc... Oh, and don't forget POOR lower range and breathiness too (looking at you Taehyung, though props to you for actually supporting your other portion of your voice), which neglects VERY MUCH the utility of the Baritone voice.

Key straining:

Hyunsik pushing:

V being overly breathy:

I can go on and on, from Jimin to Changmin (YES LOL) to Minhyun to Jay Park, etc... This thing also goes into the Western territory e.c. Bad Tenors: Chris Brown, Justin Bieber, Michael Jackson, etc... Bad Baritones: Prince, Robin Thicke, etc...

Then again, maybe I should not lose hope, we have good Baritones like Rick Astley, Sungjae and Hwanhee who have shown that singing in a Tenor range can be appealing (to my ears, at least). 

Also, I'd like to leave my Smule! account, would like you guys to judge how well my voice subjectively fit the songs that I sing.

https://www.smule.com/MynDuke

[Cian K]

interesting read

[Jinni]

I'm not a guy, but I can feel your pain while reading. *pats head*

[Nani.]

I was not planning to read this but then I saw Hyunsik :p

 

Actually it's funny that I'll be your man was (Co-)Written by Hyunsik but he didn't make it easy for himself to sing.

I would love to hear songs from my biases which fit their voices. I really love Sungjae & Hyunsik's voice.

 

 

love this cover

 

 

 

[Clay]

on the other hand, there are baritones who are trained and taught and PUT as to sing like a tenor, either by neglection from their trainers, absence of a trainer whatsoever or because of the music producers who put them in such a situation. You have Junho, Hyunsik and Key who are always put to sing high in the 4th octave and even mix shit in the fifth octave and it's not always their fault, it's what they got put and imposed to do and they got used to it. You have baritones from the same band who sing differently so it's back to their own tendencies as well yeah (Sungjae and Hyunsik)

 

 

check Hwang Chiyeol btw, he slays

[GalaxunnieSuperOppa]

I didn't exactly understand all of the lingo but I love the passion and effort that was put into this ^^

 

I'm sure the thread that discusses things like this would love to have further discussions with you on this subject ^^

[Jinni]

on the other hand, there are baritones who are trained and taught and PUT as to sing like a tenor, either by neglection from their trainers, absence of a trainer whatsoever or because of the music producers who put them in such a situation. You have Junho, Hyunsik and Key who are always put to sing high in the 4th octave and even mix shit in the fifth octave and it's not always their fault, it's what they got put and imposed to do and they got used to it. You have baritones from the same band who sing differently so it's back to their own tendencies as well yeah (Sungjae and Hyunsik)

 

 

check Hwang Chiyeol btw, he slays

Damn... Your sig.   It's the first time I saw it, lmao now I get what u were talking about the other day in the chat.

[Clay]

Damn... Your sig.   It's the first time I saw it, lmao now I get what u were talking about the other day in the chat.

 

lmaooo

[blxckpearl]

Interesting. I don't know that much about vocal technique but I'm pretty sure I'm a mezzo (maybe contralto, but I doubt it) and I always struggle real hard when I'm trying to sing girl group songs because they all have such high voices... But on the other hand it may be because I just suck at singing lol

[Lugoose]

cool!

 

I'm not a guy, but I can feel your pain while reading. *pats head*

 

JENNAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Kyzara]

I'm not trained into singing, but I can hear that and I noticed too. Sometimes making them sing a little bit out of their comfort range make them practice and finally makes their range wider, but most of the time, they're noticed as bad singers but give them the right song, and they'll sound awesome. 

 

I think most KPop are on the higher range because it's most ear-catching than lower ranges. Like when I hear Sunggyu sing in his lower range, I feel like it's different, but it's also really good. (I don't know which kind of voices he has, I know nothing of technical singing).

 

Anyway, I understand your frustration and I hope the actual trend changes and brings more range variety. Thanks for your thread

[caipirinhas]

Key is a baritone? You've got me wanting to try to find some vids and listen for his passagi

 

Anyway I'm a mezzo so I feel your pain. That's why I just jam to Fiona Apple if I want to sound great.

 

Sent from my iPhone using OneHallyu

[Jinni]

cool!

 

 

JENNAAAAAAAAAAAA

BABY GOOSE

[Maeo]

but aren't most kpop idols tenors? that's why most songs are written for tenors and all the bartiones have to struggle. BTS V is the best example, he could do so much better if he was getting suitable songs.

 

edit: also maybe because of this stupid belief that there has to be a "high note" in every song : /

[juu]

i love baritones

 

it's interesting that you mention shownu because i was never sure about his voice type, i think he could actually be a baritone. they always make him sing a big too high, but he seems a lot more comfortable in a lower range? i hope he gets analyzed sometime. i'm pretty sure that hyungwon is a baritone, but it's not like we have much singing material of him anyway lol

 

btw if you're looking for another nice baritone i'd recommend seungyoon from winner, he sounds lovely and his technique is pretty decent

[etudette]

The sad thing is that the companies don't care at all about the vocal health or technique of their idols, and who gets the higher/lower parts in a a song (except that one high note). I could tell you of so many songs of SHINee alone in which the lines could have been interchanged to fit in their ranges.

 

We can clearly see the contrast in the SHINee track Odd Eye written by Jonghyun, where he delegates each member the parts which showcase their ability best, ie rapping to Key and Minho, falsetto to Jongtaeonew, and some other points as well.

 

(I'll post a link to the live version coz its sexy )

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPp9da0-Q_E

[Jstarfully]

Okay, first of all Key is NOT a baritone.

 

Second of all, voice classifications outside of classical music are essentially useless, because in contemporary almost anybody can learn to sing both high and low notes with practice of good technique.

 

Yes baritones have naturally lower voices, but that doesn't mean that they can't train their mixed register. In contemporary, labelling people into voice classifications is more restrictive than freeing, as it both makes the person themselves think that they'll never improve their upper (or lower) range beyond their voice type's standard range. It also gives the person an excuse not to improve, 'oh, I can't sing that high, I'm a mezzo.' or, 'oh that's too low for me, I'm a tenor'. Like yes, it might be that you can't sing that part right now, but you can train the weak areas of your voice.

 

The reason some baritones are struggling in kpop is because they don't use good technique, not because they have a lower voice. Take Beast, BtoB, B1A4, 2PM etc, they all have one or more members who might be classified as baritones, but you probably haven't noticed that because they're not struggling with bad technique.

[aoiWings]

Sometimes I'm glad that I don't really know much about singing techniques and all that stuff. It's probably a lot harder to enjoy Kpop when you notice all the flaws in their technique.

It's sometimes a bit saddening to see, when those idols themselves express how they want to improve, but it seems like they aren't able to find the right support/teacher/time to actually change and it's also worrying since bad singing techniques can lead to injuries later on...

And I've always wondered: In groups where there are both tenors and baritones can't they make different parts of the songs fit the different ranges? They could still include all those highnotes, but would properly utilise their baritones...

Btw are there any basses in Kpop?

[Chae Is Bae]

Baritonnes always suffer in songs because they have to match with the tenors. For example Jaehyun, V, Junho.

[Storyteller]

I can feel you here.

I just don't get it when a singer from my bias group says things like: "I want to become good at technique too, like hit the high notes and stuff" - like whyyyyyyyyyyy... why technique and good singing equals for a lot of them with high notes, I don't get it especially for those who have naturally more low voice. 

 

And btw I'm even not a mezzo myself, I'm an alto, so all those high notes even in boy bands' songs are impossible for me.

So it's hard for me to find a song I can cover for example.

[Wallalah]

Thank you guys for the replies ! Thought I was alone on this hahah!

[Wallalah]

I was not planning to read this but then I saw Hyunsik :p

 

Actually it's funny that I'll be your man was (Co-)Written by Hyunsik but he didn't make it easy for himself to sing.

I would love to hear songs from my biases which fit their voices. I really love Sungjae & Hyunsik's voice.

 

 

love this cover

 

 

 

Yeah it's not that much of a surprise for me that Hyunsik let himself sing that high... after all... he's from CUBE, where artistry and high notes are quite privileged over good vocal technique (Eunkwang is good though, the rest are far from him). Same thing with Jinho and Hui though those two are Tenors. They always like to oversing at CUBE hahahah

 

Interesting. I don't know that much about vocal technique but I'm pretty sure I'm a mezzo (maybe contralto, but I doubt it) and I always struggle real hard when I'm trying to sing girl group songs because they all have such high voices... But on the other hand it may be because I just suck at singing lol

I think you'd need vocal coaches to tell you that, or just people who have sufficient vocal expertise (I have a lot to learn). You can be a Soprano but because you're devoid of true vocal technique, you may not be able to reach the notes properly as some Mezzos naturally can (Yes, some people naturally do sing... better than most).

 

Key is a baritone? You've got me wanting to try to find some vids and listen for his passagi

 

Anyway I'm a mezzo so I feel your pain. That's why I just jam to Fiona Apple if I want to sound great.

 

Sent from my iPhone using OneHallyu

Hahah it baffled me when I hear him SPEAK. The speaking range is also to consider. His chest voice is darker and his heavier than Minho's from what I've heard. When he sings in the fourth octave, his voice becomes more boyish, metallic and bright, which gives off the vibe that he is a Tenor, but he is in fact, no doubt, a Baritone. I have a few friends who have a Tenor-like timbre but they are in fact just young Baritones.

 

but aren't most kpop idols tenors? that's why most songs are written for tenors and all the bartiones have to struggle. BTS V is the best example, he could do so much better if he was getting suitable songs.

 

edit: also maybe because of this stupid belief that there has to be a "high note" in every song : /

That's what renders it bad for these wannabe Tenors. Taehyung always sings so high for his own good. I'd be glad to put in Sungjae too though he's got decent technique. Oh well, at least V uses a breathier register and does not strain his ass off like Hyunsik, Key or Sungjae

 

i love baritones

 

it's interesting that you mention shownu because i was never sure about his voice type, i think he could actually be a baritone. they always make him sing a big too high, but he seems a lot more comfortable in a lower range? i hope he gets analyzed sometime. i'm pretty sure that hyungwon is a baritone, but it's not like we have much singing material of him anyway lol

 

btw if you're looking for another nice baritone i'd recommend seungyoon from winner, he sounds lovely and his technique is pretty decent

LOL though I can love Baritones like V, most of the time I kind of apply this STIGMA (pun intended) to Baritones as "dumb-sounding". Examples include Seungyoon and T.O.P. hahah (Seungyoon sings very well though)

 

I was quite confused about Shownu also. I think he actually sings fine for a weak singer. He has never sung above his comfort zone without using falsetto from what I've heard. His voice is quite light in comparison to Wonho, whose singing voice is also light for a Baritone. Shownu's timbre is also very typical Tenor so I just conclude that he's one from those things

 

And what's up with all these Baritones reaching C#6??? I just watched MX and BTOB together on a show (it's madness, don't go there) and we have Hyungwon, Wonho, Ilhoon, I.M and Jooheon reaching LOUDLY the sixth octave (Jooheon raises suspician with his sharp timbre but I think he's just a high Baritone) and then there's (BTOB) Minhyuk, who is a Tenor, who only manages to reach Bb5.

 

Okay, first of all Key is NOT a baritone.

 

Second of all, voice classifications outside of classical music are essentially useless, because in contemporary almost anybody can learn to sing both high and low notes with practice of good technique.

 

Yes baritones have naturally lower voices, but that doesn't mean that they can't train their mixed register. In contemporary, labelling people into voice classifications is more restrictive than freeing, as it both makes the person themselves think that they'll never improve their upper (or lower) range beyond their voice type's standard range. It also gives the person an excuse not to improve, 'oh, I can't sing that high, I'm a mezzo.' or, 'oh that's too low for me, I'm a tenor'. Like yes, it might be that you can't sing that part right now, but you can train the weak areas of your voice.

 

The reason some baritones are struggling in kpop is because they don't use good technique, not because they have a lower voice. Take Beast, BtoB, B1A4, 2PM etc, they all have one or more members who might be classified as baritones, but you probably haven't noticed that because they're not struggling with bad technique.

Do you have any proof that Key's a Tenor? 

 

Well voice classification IS still important as it is a general view on your particular voice, in order to determine in which range you sing the best. "Learn to sing both high and low notes with practice of good technique" applies to classical music too, you can't have an untrained Tenor sing a song for a good Tenor to sing

 

Sometimes I'm glad that I don't really know much about singing techniques and all that stuff. It's probably a lot harder to enjoy Kpop when you notice all the flaws in their technique.

It's sometimes a bit saddening to see, when those idols themselves express how they want to improve, but it seems like they aren't able to find the right support/teacher/time to actually change and it's also worrying since bad singing techniques can lead to injuries later on...

And I've always wondered: In groups where there are both tenors and baritones can't they make different parts of the songs fit the different ranges? They could still include all those highnotes, but would properly utilise their baritones...

Btw are there any basses in Kpop?

LOL I was enjoying Jin's voice before I actually went curious and listen to his singing with more depth, then I realise how cringe worthy my BTS bias' singing is hahah 

Unfortunately, some companies privilege artistry over technique so...

So far, no, that is not to say there can't be, but I haven't memorised any true Bass singers aside from Barry White and Avi Kaplan

 

Baritonnes always suffer in songs because they have to match with the tenors. For example Jaehyun, V, Junho.

Jaehyun has not sing any part that is too Tenor ish so far, though I know that F4 onwards he's not good

 

I can feel you here.

I just don't get it when a singer from my bias group says things like: "I want to become good at technique too, like hit the high notes and stuff" - like whyyyyyyyyyyy... why technique and good singing equals for a lot of them with high notes, I don't get it especially for those who have naturally more low voice. 

 

And btw I'm even not a mezzo myself, I'm an alto, so all those high notes even in boy bands' songs are impossible for me.

So it's hard for me to find a song I can cover for example.

I think it's because that the audience, which is comprised mostly of young people, would prefer to listen to the voice of that boy or girl next door rather than something akin to your grandmother or your dad's LOL

[Maeo]

also if you want another kpop baritone then you should check out Jaehyun from NCT, he's probably one and even though he's not anything spectacular yet he's probably already better than most of other kpop baritones. And I noticed the parts he's given in their songs are usually more neutral, I think he's currently more of a lead vocal not the main and usually they leave the high parts for their main vocals. It's not perfect and the parts are still more tenor oriented but not to the point it sounds like his vocal chords are going to break apart.

[juu]

LOL though I can love Baritones like V, most of the time I kind of apply this STIGMA (pun intended) to Baritones as "dumb-sounding". Examples include Seungyoon and T.O.P. hahah (Seungyoon sings very well though)

 

I was quite confused about Shownu also. I think he actually sings fine for a weak singer. He has never sung above his comfort zone without using falsetto from what I've heard. His voice is quite light in comparison to Wonho, whose singing voice is also light for a Baritone. Shownu's timbre is also very typical Tenor so I just conclude that he's one from those things

 

And what's up with all these Baritones reaching C#6??? I just watched MX and BTOB together on a show (it's madness, don't go there) and we have Hyungwon, Wonho, Ilhoon, I.M and Jooheon reaching LOUDLY the sixth octave (Jooheon raises suspician with his sharp timbre but I think he's just a high Baritone) and then there's (BTOB) Minhyuk, who is a Tenor, who only manages to reach Bb5.

 

it's very hard to tell with untrained vocalists, especially since everyone in kpop seems to go for the "high notes". like, i love wonho but he really needs to stop straining  the only one i'm 100% sure of is i.m, because, well, his voice is just extremely deep lol

[Wallalah]

also if you want another kpop baritone then you should check out Jaehyun from NCT, he's probably one and even though he's not anything spectacular yet he's probably already better than most of other kpop baritones. And I noticed the parts he's given in their songs are usually more neutral, I think he's currently more of a lead vocal not the main and usually they leave the high parts for their main vocals. It's not perfect and the parts are still more tenor oriented but not to the point it sounds like his vocal chords are going to break apart.

Yeah I'm a big NCT stan (cutie handsome Taeyong hyung in your profile gif <3) and I've listened to every release of them. Jaehyun never sings anything that is in the fifth octave so far from what I can remember. Maybe that "I'll be your morning star" is one, let me check with the piano again but yeah, in general, I am very comfortable whenever I try to sing his parts