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As an international fan in 2006, Asian pop i-fandom was all about Johnny's. What happened?

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#101 alvincyt

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:07 PM (Edited by alvincyt, 04 May 2017 - 01:13 PM.)

But this are not investors. This are companies (or a company), doing business. There are plenty of companies that only operate in one market and if that market is big enough to support them then what's the problem? Expanding to other markets might mean more potential money (or not, since those markets are just as saturated and this with locals). On the other hand there's high risk, definitely much higher expenses, a need for foreign partners and people who know how to operate in those foreign markets, most likely a need to learn a whole new language (or several), for many people (artists + staff) or at least a need for jet more additional staff... So you have artists who are doing well and are relatively mainstream in their own huge domestic market. Sure, they can try to expand to other markets, but besides the points I mentioned previously (high costs, need for additional knowledge/languages, low chance of success - and success wouldn't even mean mainstream, just doing good for a niche act) there's also a fact that this are actualy not products, but people and as such have a limited time of working hours available. Now you can spend those hours on a risky adventure overseas, but why, if you are doing well (and are more than busy) at home. Those artists wouldn't be switching laying on a couch and watching drama for a time working abroad. They would be switching guaranteed profit working time and commitments for something that might work (or not) and would even in best case scenario bring less money than working in local market). Not to mention that by being absent, they could lose the business at home to other acts that would be happy to pick it up.

To put this in simple business terms: covering new markets can be a good idea for a production company, let's say for a home appliance maker. Because if a business is doing well, you can just expand production and broaden your market share. But that doesn't work for, let's say, a high end stylist that works in a righ neigbourhood. Sure, they can try moving around a bit and spend half days in poorer parts of the town where they can either charge less or get less customers. But why, if they are already fully booked and cozy in their own local salon? Of course, they could develop branches (or in this case AKB48 sister groups) and that's one business model but that's another matter (and that only works because 48 groups primarily sell a brand, not 'personalities' like J&A does).

TLDR version: there's only 24 hours in a day and spending them in a proven lucrative home market might not be the worst business choice, because the other option is investing more effort, money and risk just to redistribute a part of those working hours to poorer and smaller markets (or markets where you'd forever be a niche, which is essentialy the same).

 

So is Coca-Cola (the one I mentioned above) a company doing business?

 

"... and if that market is big enough to support them then what's the problem" - The problem is you never know if the market will be the same big next month or next year, not to mention the fact that the population in japan is declining and aging.




#102 blank_stare

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 03:50 PM

Alvincyt, what are you trying to say and prove? Because Japan is still second or first in the music industry. Plus, putting their content on a media platform like YouTube, it can be stolen and pirated. The Japanese companies don't want that Sonora region block AND THEIR COPYRIGHT LAWS got stricter. What they're doing is basically the opposite of what you are saying, marketing and promoting. There ARE companies that tries to expand, but they're still in the process of planning and growth. Kpop didn't just grew one year, they had years or marketing and planning and deals and promo they did. Which the government helped them too while Japan don't care about if they're popular outside as long as they're making money in their own country; they won't change the way unless something knocks them out of the race.


#103 alvincyt

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:04 PM

Alvincyt, what are you trying to say and prove? Because Japan is still second or first in the music industry. Plus, putting their content on a media platform like YouTube, it can be stolen and pirated. The Japanese companies don't want that Sonora region block AND THEIR COPYRIGHT LAWS got stricter. What they're doing is basically the opposite of what you are saying, marketing and promoting. There ARE companies that tries to expand, but they're still in the process of planning and growth. Kpop didn't just grew one year, they had years or marketing and planning and deals and promo they did. Which the government helped them too while Japan don't care about if they're popular outside as long as they're making money in their own country; they won't change the way unless something knocks them out of the race.


Below is the yearly chart of concert tours in Japan. If this is what happening right now, what time do you think the Japanese should start changing the way?

ee6aef24b899a9017ef883f015950a7b0008f586


#104 bzz

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:34 PM (Edited by bzz, 04 May 2017 - 08:41 PM.)

Alvincyt, what are you trying to say and prove? Because Japan is still second or first in the music industry. Plus, putting their content on a media platform like YouTube, it can be stolen and pirated. The Japanese companies don't want that Sonora region block AND THEIR COPYRIGHT LAWS got stricter. What they're doing is basically the opposite of what you are saying, marketing and promoting. There ARE companies that tries to expand, but they're still in the process of planning and growth. Kpop didn't just grew one year, they had years or marketing and planning and deals and promo they did. Which the government helped them too while Japan don't care about if they're popular outside as long as they're making money in their own country; they won't change the way unless something knocks them out of the race.

Seemingly, Japan has started to reach out

 

Japanese artists in Viral Fest Asia 2016 (venue: Bali, Indonesia)

Noir

Iris Woo

(Who are they?)

 

in Viral Fest Asia 2017 (venue: Bangkok, Thailand)

AKB48

Exile The Second

Flower

Juice = Juice

Siro-A

(even more spectacle than Korean ones, Rain and Suran)

 

NMB48 also will have first concert in Thailand ever this year.




#105 DocumentaLy

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:57 PM

Below is the yearly chart of concert tours in Japan. If this is what happening right now, what time do you think the Japanese should start changing the way?

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/pic/item/e...

 

That chart is based on the number of seats in all the venues on tours. It doesn't count the number of seats sold, nor factor in how many seats are actually for sale. It also doesn't factor in price. 

 

KPop fans have tried before and been prove wrong time and time again. Learn about what you're speaking on before talking to people who do know.




#106 blank_stare

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:02 PM

Below is the yearly chart of concert tours in Japan. If this is what happening right now, what time do you think the Japanese should start changing the way?http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/pic/item/e...


Documentary already prove you wrong so what's next?

Seemingly, Japan has started to reach out
 
Japanese artists in Viral Fest Asia 2016 (venue: Bali, Indonesia)
Noir
Iris Woo
(Who are they?)
 
in Viral Fest Asia 2017 (venue: Bangkok, Thailand)
AKB48
Exile The Second
Flower
Juice = Juice
Siro-A
(even more spectacle than Korean ones, Rain and Suran)
 
NMB48 also will have first concert in Thailand ever this year.


I know. But I didn't want to mention it because it's a very slow pace. And still strict with their copyrights.


#107 alvincyt

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:40 PM (Edited by alvincyt, 04 May 2017 - 11:51 PM.)

That chart is based on the number of seats in all the venues on tours. It doesn't count the number of seats sold, nor factor in how many seats are actually for sale. It also doesn't factor in price.

KPop fans have tried before and been prove wrong time and time again. Learn about what you're speaking on before talking to people who do know.

Of course I know, I downloaded that image from a Chinese forum and they already explained that.

Just look at the huge difference between Bigbang and the first runner up, even if the attendance of Bigbang's tour was only 55% of the seats, it's still good enough to beat out all Jpop acts.

Got the point yet? LOL!

p.s. And don't pretend you didn't see my post on the other thread, I'm still waiting for you to find a J concert which beat Seoulsonic's ticket price. If you can't find one, just admit you lost. Hahaha!

Still waiting for the self-proclaimed knowledgeable member who knows more about kpop than I do of the jpop counterpart to show me a Japanese act who can beat Seoulsonic's ticket price, so he can make me believe the Koreans are "out to milk fans". LOL!!! https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

https://thetincan1.w.../16/april-2013/
FRIDAY 5 – SEOULSONIC TOUR: GOONAM \\\ LOWDOWN 30 \\\ NO BRAIN \\\ $5

http://www.relatably.com/m/img/sore-lose...




#108 alvincyt

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:46 PM

It also doesn't factor in price. 


LOL!!! I'm really curious what point you're trying to make with this saying. Didn't you say that jpop are less expensive than kpop in the US because jpop acts are not "out to milk fans"?

Well, does the same logic applies here now? Hahaha!!!


#109 DocumentaLy

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:50 PM

Of course I know, I downloaded that image from a Chinese forum and they already explained that.

Just look at the huge difference between Bigbang and the first runner up, even if the attendance of Bigbang's tour was only 55% of the seats, it's still good enough to beat out all Jpop acts.

Got the point yet? LOL!

p.s. And don't pretend you didn't see my post on the other thread, I'm still waiting for you to find a J concert which beat Seoulsonic's ticket price. If you can't find one, just admit you lost. Don't avoid my question like a coward. Hahaha!

 

When I said I was going to bed in regards to that thread, I meant it.

 

And you do know that Big Bang's tickets resell at a fraction of the price because they all don't sell all that well at regular price, right? In comparison, a lot of Japanese acts have their tickets sell out and then people buy them from resellers at a mark up. So what's really real?


LOL!!! I'm really curious what point you're trying to make with this saying. Didn't you say that jpop are less expensive than kpop in the US because jpop acts are not "out to milk fans"?

Well, does the same logic applies here now? Hahaha!!!

 

The same logic doesn't apply to Japan.




#110 alvincyt

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:52 PM

Still waiting for the self-proclaimed knowledgeable member who knows more about kpop than I do of the jpop counterpart to show me a Japanese act who can beat Seoulsonic's ticket price, so he can make me believe the Koreans are "out to milk fans". LOL!!! hurrplz.png

https://thetincan1.w.../16/april-2013/
FRIDAY 5 – SEOULSONIC TOUR: GOONAM \\\ LOWDOWN 30 \\\ NO BRAIN \\\ $5

u9lrs.jpg


#111 alvincyt

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:08 AM

When I said I was going to bed in regards to that thread, I meant it.
 
And you do know that Big Bang's tickets resell at a fraction of the price because they all don't sell all that well at regular price, right? In comparison, a lot of Japanese acts have their tickets sell out and then people buy them from resellers at a mark up. So what's really real?
 
The same logic doesn't apply to Japan.


1. Sorry your excuse doesn't stand. I asked the question days ago, don't tell me you just woke up 2 mins ago. And instead of answering the question, you chose to explain why didn't answer earlier, and still not answering that question. Just admit you lost, you excuse has made you look even worse than you already were. Lol

2. And this time reality slaps in your face again:

https://www.pollstar....aspx?ID=828819

According to pollstar year end report - top grossing concerts worldwide, I found Bigbang's show on the chart (although it's in China, not Japan). Can you tell me where is the top jpop concert? Lol!!! No matter how good or how bad BB japan tour grossed, kpop still beat jpop concerts, not only in America but also in Asia.

3. "The same logic doesn't apply to Japan" - Please explain.


#112 DocumentaLy

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:10 AM

1. Sorry your excuse doesn't stand. I asked the question days ago, don't tell me you just woke up 2 mins ago. And instead of answering the question, you chose to explain why didn't answer earlier, and still not answering that question. Just admit you lost, you excuse has made you look even worse than you already were. Lol

2. And this time reality slaps in your face again:

https://www.pollstar....aspx?ID=828819

According to pollstar year end report - top grossing concerts worldwide, I found Bigbang's show on the chart (although it's in China, not Japan). Can you tell me where is the top jpop concert? Lol!!! No matter how good or how bad BB japan tour grossed, kpop still beat jpop concerts, not only in America but also in Asia.

3. "The same logic doesn't apply to Japan" - Please explain.

 

Your link is broken, just like this conversation. Bye!




#113 alvincyt

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:10 AM (Edited by alvincyt, 05 May 2017 - 12:11 AM.)


When I said I was going to bed in regards to that thread, I meant it.

And you do know that Big Bang's tickets resell at a fraction of the price because they all don't sell all that well at regular price, right? In comparison, a lot of Japanese acts have their tickets sell out and then people buy them from resellers at a mark up. So what's really real?

The same logic doesn't apply to Japan.

This time don't forget again, lol!!!

Still waiting for the self-proclaimed knowledgeable member who knows more about kpop than I do of the jpop counterpart to show me a Japanese act who can beat Seoulsonic's ticket price, so he can make me believe the Koreans are "out to milk fans". LOL!!! hurrplz.png

https://thetincan1.w.../16/april-2013/
FRIDAY 5 – SEOULSONIC TOUR: GOONAM \\\ LOWDOWN 30 \\\ NO BRAIN \\\ $5

u9lrs.jpg


#114 alvincyt

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:19 AM (Edited by alvincyt, 05 May 2017 - 12:27 AM.)

Your link is broken, just like this conversation. Bye!


https://www.pollstar...features-130294

Well, I'm not surprised people like you can't handle even a tiny little technical problem lol


#115 bzz

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 01:35 AM (Edited by bzz, 05 May 2017 - 01:59 AM.)

So is Coca-Cola (the one I mentioned above) a company doing business?

 

"... and if that market is big enough to support them then what's the problem" - The problem is you never know if the market will be the same big next month or next year, not to mention the fact that the population in japan is declining and aging.

You seriously don't understand marketing.

 

Coca-cola launching dozens different flavors of cola drink is equivalent to S.M. debuting a bunch of idol groups of different concepts/ styles. If S.M. debuts a musical band, that is like Coca-cola launches healthy juice.

 

Coca-cola can use its network and know-how created via its years of carbonated drink marketing to push its juice still, to sell healthy juice requires different new strategy/ new mindset and Coca-cola's unhealthy drink image can be a disadvantage. (Actually, Coca-cola did launch juice product and it didn't sell very well. The juice did not use Coco-cola brand.)

 

Whereas, S.M. did debuted a rock band and it did not really successful. S.M. and K-pop's image was a hindrance for the popularity of the rock band. Rock band also could not use similar promotion style to an idol group.

 

 

I know. But I didn't want to mention it because it's a very slow pace. And still strict with their copyrights.

Not every labels exercises the same level of strictness.

 

The artist line up is surprisingly different that it doesn't look like "slow pace". Exile's label has long expressed interest in western market, maybe, it has shifted its interest to Asia.




#116 alvincyt

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 05:26 AM

You seriously don't understand marketing.
 
Coca-cola launching dozens different flavors of cola drink is equivalent to S.M. debuting a bunch of idol groups of different concepts/ styles. If S.M. debuts a musical band, that is like Coca-cola launches healthy juice.
 
Coca-cola can use its network and know-how created via its years of carbonated drink marketing to push its juice still, to sell healthy juice requires different new strategy/ new mindset and Coca-cola's unhealthy drink image can be a disadvantage. (Actually, Coca-cola did launch juice product and it didn't sell very well. The juice did not use Coco-cola brand.)
 
Whereas, S.M. did debuted a rock band and it did not really successful. S.M. and K-pop's image was a hindrance for the popularity of the rock band. Rock band also could not use similar promotion style to an idol group.
 
 


Not every labels exercises the same level of strictness.
 
The artist line up is surprisingly different that it doesn't look like "slow pace". Exile's label has long expressed interest in western market, maybe, it has shifted its interest to Asia.


I used that as an example to support the argument that jpop acts should try to promote more overseas ....


if you have read properly.





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