Official Rap Thread

[The Dense One]

Now I often see threads about which K-Pop Idol Rapper is better than who, and why this one is so good and the other one is so bad... And I think to myself.

"Do these guys actually know how to judge which rapper is better than another one?"

This is where this thread comes in, even though preference in rap is mostly subjective, there is an actual science behind rap and a legitimate way to judge which rapper is more adept at their craft than the other. The rest (like looks, style and swagger) is history.

First things first, in order to judge which rapper is the best, you need to look at the criteria. I personally keep it simple with three points.

 

1. Vocal Tone

This criteria is considered the most subjective, because if we look at mainstream media, different rappers have different tones that work for them and are successful in those endeavors. The ideal tone is one where the voice is deep enough to carry weight to the words but also light enough to understand the diction or pronunciation.

Rappers like Method Man, Royce Da 5'9" and Jay Z have voices like that.

However it's not compulsory to have a voice like that, Eminem, Andre 3000 and Logic have particularly light voices and British rapper Giggs has a very deep voice, and they manage to do just fine.

Another ideal aspect is to have a smooth enough voice for the flow (another term we'll get too) to feel just right, but also gruff enough to add some aggression to it. This mostly depends on the song, but rappers like Immortal Technique, Tech N9ne and B.O.B have the right idea in this area.

But again,  you have rappers like Rick Ross with overtly husky voices and 50 Cent with a very smooth timbre but hilariously bad diction to compensate for it.

The point I'm getting across is that, the best way to judge Vocal Tone is simply whether or not it is annoying to you or the general populace.

For example, Lil Kim and Nicki Minaj are both from New York with very similar artistry and rap styles... But why do people get annoyed with Nicki Minaj and not Lil Kim? One could argue overexposure, however it is simply due to the way the Vocal Tone fits the lyricism, delivery and the beat. Nothing to do with flow whatsoever. (It also helps that Lil Kim has a bit more bass in her voice, but whatever.)

 

2. Delivery

The next thing to consider is delivery.

Now this term is often confused with flow in the sense of the definitions being mixed up. Delivery is only ever used to describe the rapper's annunciation of words, their diction and the emotion or emphasis behind each word.

For example, with songs like "Not Afraid" or "Lose Yourself" the delivery of the rapper (Eminem) is shown to be quite powerful, emotional and aggressive... Which fits the song, the artist's persona and the motif behind the songs. Whereas songs like "Mirror" (Lil Wayne) the delivery is quite lackadaisical and melancholy, the former quality fits the artist's persona but the latter fits the song quite well.

Two different types of delivery but they each fit the song well and fit the artist well... However! If they were to swap delivery for both of these songs, then it wouldn't fit nearly as well, even though both raps are quite good in their own right.

Delivery is completely dependent on three things...

The beat. The rapper/lyricist. The concept.

If a "gangster" rapper started rapping with Jimin's voice on a song like Gee, then that would be awful... However, if he started rapping with Yongguk's voice on a beat like "Lean Back" by Fat Joe, that would be perfect.

Delivery is the least subjective out of the three points, but it is still somewhat subjective to say the least. People may like hearing bars about robbing a bank from Jimin whilst "Gee Gee Gee" is playing in the background.

 

3. Flow

This one is the trickiest, because there are different types. It's akin to a singer's voice...

Now while there is a standard procedure for vocalists to follow and you can easily define a person's singing technique being bad (e.g. Bom has awful technique, whereas Ailee has beautiful technique in comparison). In rap, it's not that simple, partially due to the fact that nothing is being sung.

Flow is defined as the ability to construct the line in a manner that not only fits the bit but also doesn't disrupt the rhythmic cadence of the entire rap.

A good example of flow? "Rap God (Eminem)", "Malcolm X (Royce Da 5'9)", "No Limit (Zico)", "Memories (Yoon Mirae)".

However, you can also have bad flow in a song, but it is still considered good because of the lyricism or delivery... "Dance With The Devil (Immortal Technique)", "Yonkers (Tyler The Creator)".

You can also have stop-and-start flow where the idea is to purposely make the flow choppy in preference to the delivery.

 

...

These are the three ways to judge whether or not your bias is good at rapping, if you want some in-depth analysis you could post a video or any other type of excerpt and I could analyze it for you if you wish... Hope you all learned something.

-------------------------------------------

One last thing, there are three main types of rapping style as well!

Musician's Rapper (Mu) is a rapper that can adapt to any flow and suit the genre of the beat and instrumentation, they are more prone to experimentation of sorts. Rappers that fit this description are guys like Drake, Travie McCoy, Mike Shinoda, Macklemore and Yours Truly.

Old School Rapper (Sch) is a rapper that treats their raps like a piece of furniture they need to build and know that their vocal tone is the paint, the flow is the woodwork and the delivery is materials. They pay attention to every detail in their rapping style meticulously and will make sure that the finished product is something that has their signature all over it and is sturdy and beautiful as fuck. Rappers that fit this description are guys like Tech N9ne, Immortal Technique, Nas, Eminem, Biggie Smalls, Tupac, Method Man and ironically enough Lil Wayne (although he fits all the criteria).

New Era Rapper (NE), otherwise known as the Post Hip-Hop approach. These guys are no worse than the other ones mentioned, it's just that their approach is different. New Era rappers tend to focus more on what is unique about their approach or what style suits them than the actual piece, Old School Rappers can be like that too, but what separates them is that Old School rappers are more concerned about the rap and everything to do with the rap. New Era Rappers are more concerned with how everything sounds but not to the extent where they would change up their whole style like a Musician's Rapper would. Guys like this are Kendrick Lamar, Hopsin, B.O.B, etc.

The emboldened brackets will be the style I believe that the rappers analyzed are following.

Rappers Analyzed:
 

Spoiler

 

(EDIT: I will also indicate whether or not I believe these rappers are top-tier, mid-tier or bottom-tier in K-Pop and amongst their genders).

G-Dragon (Mu/NE) - Top Tier

T.O.P (NE) - Top Tier

Taeyang (n/a) - Mid or Bottom Tier

Fort Minor (Mu) - N/A

Hani (n/a) - Mid Tier

Way (n/a) - Bottom Tier

Miryo (Mu/NE) - Top Tier

CL (NE) - Top Tier

Leessang (Sch) - N/A

B-Free (Sch) - N/A

Zico (NE/Sch) - Top Tier

BIPA (n/a) - Top Tier

Kris (n/a) - Bottom Tier

Tao (n/a) - Bottom Tier

Kai (n/a) - Bottom Tier

Chanyeol (Mu) - Mid Tier

Yezi (NE) - Mid Tier

Snow Da Product (Sch) - N/A

Angel Haze (Sch/NE) - N/A

G.low (n/a) - Mid Tier

Nada (NE) - Mid Tier

Tiffany (n/a) - Oh Please

Yuri (NE) - Bottom Tier

Hyoyeon (NE) - Bottom Tier

Mino (Mu) - Top Tier

Ravi (NE) - Top Tier

Ailee (n/a) - Mid Tier

Baro (NE) - Mid Tier

Erin (NE) - Mid Tier

Eunji (NE) - Mid Tier

Sem (n/a) - Oh Please (Perhaps I should make this a tier...)

Jucy (Mu/NE) - Mid Tier

Jennie Kim (NE) - Bottom Tier

Euna Kim (NE) - Mid Tier

Minho (NE) - Bottom Tier

Key (NE) - Mid Tier

Hyuna (Mu/NE) - Mid Tier

Jia (NE) - Mid Tier

Yubin (Sch/Mu) - Top Tier

Diam (Sch) - N/A

Bobby (Sch) - Top Tier

Hanbin (NE/Mu) - Top Tier

Seunghoon (NE) - Mid Tier

Rap Monster (Sch/NE) - Top Tier

Jungkook (n/a) - Bottom Tier

Suga (NE) - Mid Tier

J-Hope (n/a) - Bottom Tier

Hwayoung (NE) - Mid Tier

Yura (n/a) - Bottom Tier

Hyorin (Sch) - Mid Tier

 

 

[Gen_ki]

This thread looks interesting. Although, I am not interested in American rappers, I like Korean rappers. 

[MoreTokyo]

 

I'll bless this thread with O'fficial (Skip to 3:39-5:54)!

I'll be popping in and out of thread. I'll be able to help you if you need anything regarding battle rap.

Edited February 6, 2014 by MoreTokyo

[The Dense One]

 

 

I'll bless this thread with O'fficial (Skip to 3:39-5:54)!

I'll be popping in and out of thread. I'll be able to help you if you need anything regarding battle rap.

 

 

Who is this girl? She is dope as fuck! XD

[MoreTokyo]

Who is this girl? She is dope as fuck! XD

She's a battle rapper from New Orleans! She's lethal in the ring.

 

[Seultoria]

 

 

EXID's Hani >>>>>>>>

[yournoona]

Is it limited to kpop or american rap included as well?

Gonna visit the thread more often to learn something lol~

[The Dense One]

 

 

EXID's Hani >>>>>>>>

 

Short Answer: She raps better than your oppars.

 

Long Answer: Based on this clip, the vocal tone is a bit too high-pitched for a female rapper and this song, but it gets the job done.

 

The delivery is a bit lackluster, it sounds really breathy and that she struggles to get some of the words out sometimes, but the diction is good enough to get the words across and because she isn't the main rapper of EXID I can cut her some slack for that.

 

The flow is hella nice though, everything fits together seamlessly and is executed perfectly, with a bit more dedication to delivery and putting some more bass into her voice she could be one of the best K-Pop idol rappers one day.

 

 

Is it limited to kpop or american rap included as well?

Gonna visit the thread more often to learn something lol~

 

Well you could do American Rap I suppose, but I was sort of just expecting K-Pop XD

Edited February 6, 2014 by The Dense One

[horny fangirl]

nicki is queen

 

[Gen_ki]

I have a question. How well does Way of Crayon Pop rap in this song? I know that rapping is not her thing, but her rapping is my favorite part of the song. Her rap is at 1:53. 

[mnt21]

How good is Fort minor and if you don't know them check out the song Right Now, remember the name and the hard way, Kenji.

 

Fort minor is the guy from Linkin Park

 

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by mnt21

[junglove]

what do you think about Miryo?

 

 

[TheOfficialPimpwife]

here for top,gd and rap monster

[The Dense One]

nicki is queen

 

 

I love Nicki, she's so jokes and her flow is hella nice! But I wouldn't call her queen because her delivery pisses me off sometimes... But that's artistic style I suppose, some people find it endearing! XD

[Nekci]

YEAH, I was looking forward to a rapping thread!

[The Dense One]

I have a question. How well does Way of Crayon Pop rap in this song? I know that rapping is not her thing, but her rapping is my favorite part of the song. Her rap is at 1:53. 

 

 

 

The vocal tone is actually ideal in terms of how deep it is, the delivery is perfect because it fits the song and the persona, although you can tell that she needs to not speak through her nose (hence the reason why it sounds like she has a cold), the annunciation could be more clear too, but that might be the effects because it is a studio version.

 

Her flow is my main issue, but it could just be the lyricist, it's very lackluster and boring... Even if it aegyo rap, it needs to be a bit more consistent there are way too many pauses at awkward places too. The rhythmic cadence is constantly disrupted so you couldn't even consider it stop-and-start flow.

 

Overall though, for a non-rapper, she's okay...

 

How good is Fort minor and if you don't know them check out the song Right Now, remember the name and the hard way, Kenji.

 

Fort minor is the guy from Linkin Park

 

 

 

I love Mike Shinoda, his Fort Minor stuff is beast... He's the idea of a complete package as a rapper. His flow is always consistent, his delivery is absolutely spot on and his vocal tone fits the song each time. I think the one flaw is that he has a tendency to put too much emphasis on some words sometimes and it actually goes against his flow but that's sort of rare.

 

what do you think about Miryo?

 

 

 

Because it's freestyle, I'll cut her some slack on flow... But I guess i don't need to because it's near-perfectly consistent throughout during the freestyle, her delivery (although sometimes muddy) is brilliantly enunciated and the emphasis is placed in the right points, but the emotion is lacking in some places. Her vocal tone is fine some times and messed up in other places, but I guess she's messing around here so I can't fault her on that.

 

She's very good for an idol rapper and is really close to being the complete package. I think it's more or less just advancing her skills more and being more consistent.

 

here for top,gd and rap monster

 

Show me some examples first, please

[Athena]

I don't mean to bother you but what do you think of the girl with a bandana tied up in her hair:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z41qIK7-s4k

 

Sorry if the song bugs you. I think her flow is pretty decent but it's her vocal tone that is a bit high-pitched.

 

Here's another video of her:

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Athena

[Gen_ki]

The vocal tone is actually ideal in terms of how deep it is, the delivery is perfect because it fits the song and the persona, although you can tell that she needs to not speak through her nose (hence the reason why it sounds like she has a cold), the annunciation could be more clear too, but that might be the effects because it is a studio version.

 

Her flow is my main issue, but it could just be the lyricist, it's very lackluster and boring... Even if it aegyo rap, it needs to be a bit more consistent there are way too many pauses at awkward places too. The rhythmic cadence is constantly disrupted so you couldn't even consider it stop-and-start flow.

 

Overall though, for a non-rapper, she's okay...

Thank you. 

[mnt21]

The vocal tone is actually ideal in terms of how deep it is, the delivery is perfect because it fits the song and the persona, although you can tell that she needs to not speak through her nose (hence the reason why it sounds like she has a cold), the annunciation could be more clear too, but that might be the effects because it is a studio version.

 

Her flow is my main issue, but it could just be the lyricist, it's very lackluster and boring... Even if it aegyo rap, it needs to be a bit more consistent there are way too many pauses at awkward places too. The rhythmic cadence is constantly disrupted so you couldn't even consider it stop-and-start flow.

 

Overall though, for a non-rapper, she's okay...

 

 

I love Mike Shinoda, his Fort Minor stuff is beast... He's the idea of a complete package as a rapper. His flow is always consistent, his delivery is absolutely spot on and his vocal tone fits the song each time. I think the one flaw is that he has a tendency to put too much emphasis on some words sometimes and it actually goes against his flow but that's sort of rare.

 

 

Because it's freestyle, I'll cut her some slack on flow... But I guess i don't need to because it's near-perfectly consistent throughout during the freestyle, her delivery (although sometimes muddy) is brilliantly enunciated and the emphasis is placed in the right points, but the emotion is lacking in some places. Her vocal tone is fine some times and messed up in other places, but I guess she's messing around here so I can't fault her on that.

 

She's very good for an idol rapper and is really close to being the complete package. I think it's more or less just advancing her skills more and being more consistent.

 

 

Show me some examples first, please

 

Thank you for your input I really love M. shinoda and his raps because his content is gold and I', happy to hear he's a good rapper.

[TheOfficialPimpwife]

The vocal tone is actually ideal in terms of how deep it is, the delivery is perfect because it fits the song and the persona, although you can tell that she needs to not speak through her nose (hence the reason why it sounds like she has a cold), the annunciation could be more clear too, but that might be the effects because it is a studio version.

 

Her flow is my main issue, but it could just be the lyricist, it's very lackluster and boring... Even if it aegyo rap, it needs to be a bit more consistent there are way too many pauses at awkward places too. The rhythmic cadence is constantly disrupted so you couldn't even consider it stop-and-start flow.

 

Overall though, for a non-rapper, she's okay...

 

 

I love Mike Shinoda, his Fort Minor stuff is beast... He's the idea of a complete package as a rapper. His flow is always consistent, his delivery is absolutely spot on and his vocal tone fits the song each time. I think the one flaw is that he has a tendency to put too much emphasis on some words sometimes and it actually goes against his flow but that's sort of rare.

 

 

Because it's freestyle, I'll cut her some slack on flow... But I guess i don't need to because it's near-perfectly consistent throughout during the freestyle, her delivery (although sometimes muddy) is brilliantly enunciated and the emphasis is placed in the right points, but the emotion is lacking in some places. Her vocal tone is fine some times and messed up in other places, but I guess she's messing around here so I can't fault her on that.

 

She's very good for an idol rapper and is really close to being the complete package. I think it's more or less just advancing her skills more and being more consistent.

 

 

Show me some examples first, please

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

gawddd this album was the shit,the best combo ever

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by toptabibinguwife

[junglove]

 

 

Because it's freestyle, I'll cut her some slack on flow... But I guess i don't need to because it's near-perfectly consistent throughout during the freestyle, her delivery (although sometimes muddy) is brilliantly enunciated and the emphasis is placed in the right points, but the emotion is lacking in some places. Her vocal tone is fine some times and messed up in other places, but I guess she's messing around here so I can't fault her on that.

 

She's very good for an idol rapper and is really close to being the complete package. I think it's more or less just advancing her skills more and being more consistent.

 

 

 

Thank you

[The Dense One]

I don't mean to bother you but what do you think of the girl with a bandana tied up in her hair:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z41qIK7-s4k

 

Sorry if the song bugs you. I think her flow is pretty decent but it's her vocal tone that is a bit high-pitched.

 

Here's another video of her:

 

 

Oh you mean, Ashley (BIPA)? Let's see...

 

You are right about her vocal tone, it is higher than normal (but that might be due to her age, she'll eventually grow out of it). Her flow is very nice, she is clearly adept at different types and she's introducing different styles of flow known as "chopping" and "stop-and-start" in the second/third verse and first verse respectively which is very advanced.

 

Chopping is stuff like what Twista and Busta Rhymes and T.O.P (Doom Dada) do, where it is more onomatopoeia and speed rapping in the place of words, it's rather hard to do if you don't have much of a hip-hop influence and are just starting out in rapping.

 

Stop-and-Start is where the flow literally stops in the general direction it goes for a second and then restarts again. It messes around with the rhythmic cadence of the verse and again is quite advanced if you're not used to it.

 

Displaying stuff like that shows that Ashley knows what she's doing, and is quite adept at it too. My main issue is her delivery...

 

It can be quite slurred during the fast bits, a notable example is when she says "I gotta wing" it actually sounds like "I gotta win" an easy mistake to make but it ruins the message of your lyrics which is the most important part as a rapper.

 

She has immense potential and she's only young too (or so I assume), so the sky is the limit really.

 

(Also, I really like Lip Service... Just saying).

[Athena]

Oh you mean, Ashley (BIPA)? Let's see...

 

You are right about her vocal tone, it is higher than normal (but that might be due to her age, she'll eventually grow out of it). Her flow is very nice, she is clearly adept at different types and she's introducing different styles of flow known as "chopping" and "stop-and-start" in the second/third verse and first verse respectively which is very advanced.

 

Chopping is stuff like what Twista and Busta Rhymes and T.O.P (Doom Dada) do, where it is more onomatopoeia and speed rapping in the place of words, it's rather hard to do if you don't have much of a hip-hop influence and are just starting out in rapping.

 

Stop-and-Start is where the flow literally stops in the general direction it goes for a second and then restarts again. It messes around with the rhythmic cadence of the verse and again is quite advanced if you're not used to it.

 

Displaying stuff like that shows that Ashley knows what she's doing, and is quite adept at it too. My main issue is her delivery...

 

It can be quite slurred during the fast bits, a notable example is when she says "I gotta wing" it actually sounds like "I gotta win" an easy mistake to make but it ruins the message of your lyrics which is the most important part as a rapper.

 

She has immense potential and she's only young too (or so I assume), so the sky is the limit really.

 

(Also, I really like Lip Service... Just saying).

Oh you've heard of her? Yeah I also thought that her delivery was the biggest issue. Thanks for your input!

[The Dense One]

Thank you for your input I really love M. shinoda and his raps because his content is gold and I', happy to hear he's a good rapper.

 

No worries, but the point of this thread isn't to re-affirm your liking for someone, rather to point out where rappers are in their proficiency and the areas in which they need to improve. For example, I don't consider Jimin (AOA) to be a good rapper, but people still like her.

 

At the end of the day, who you like is down to you!

 

 

The vocal tone is actually ideal in terms of how deep it is, the delivery is perfect because it fits the song and the persona, although you can tell that she needs to not speak through her nose (hence the reason why it sounds like she has a cold), the annunciation could be more clear too, but that might be the effects because it is a studio version.

 

Her flow is my main issue, but it could just be the lyricist, it's very lackluster and boring... Even if it aegyo rap, it needs to be a bit more consistent there are way too many pauses at awkward places too. The rhythmic cadence is constantly disrupted so you couldn't even consider it stop-and-start flow.

 

Overall though, for a non-rapper, she's okay...

 

 

I love Mike Shinoda, his Fort Minor stuff is beast... He's the idea of a complete package as a rapper. His flow is always consistent, his delivery is absolutely spot on and his vocal tone fits the song each time. I think the one flaw is that he has a tendency to put too much emphasis on some words sometimes and it actually goes against his flow but that's sort of rare.

 

 

Because it's freestyle, I'll cut her some slack on flow... But I guess i don't need to because it's near-perfectly consistent throughout during the freestyle, her delivery (although sometimes muddy) is brilliantly enunciated and the emphasis is placed in the right points, but the emotion is lacking in some places. Her vocal tone is fine some times and messed up in other places, but I guess she's messing around here so I can't fault her on that.

 

She's very good for an idol rapper and is really close to being the complete package. I think it's more or less just advancing her skills more and being more consistent.

 

 

Show me some examples first, please

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

gawddd this album was the shit,the best combo ever

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

G-Dragon first...

 

His flow is very nice, it's consistent and has no issues in terms of how the words melt into each other. His vocal tone is a bit on the high side but it's still ideal and has enjoyed great success. His delivery doesn't have a lot of problems, but it could be better. The emphasis and the emotion is there, but it's missing some power... That could be due to the song however.

 

T.O.P is similar to GD in the sense that his flow is very consistent, moreso than that of GD, and his vocal tone is more ideal but it's on the deeper end of the spectrum, it works for him though. His delivery is a lot stronger too and the emphasis is there but sometimes it's a bit too much... His main problem is the emotion behind it, he needs to work on emoting himself through his words, it's all fine and dandy being able to deliver the words with enough emphasis to show that your angry, but it only sounds rough it never sounds angry (using anger as an example).

 

The funny thing is, however, these two compliment each other perfectly because they cover each others flaws and boost their strengths to new heights. Good duo there.

 

(By the way, didn't you want me to do one for Rap Monster as well?)

[junglove]

can you do a kpop idol female rapper ranking chart?

 

is it miryo>>>>>>>>>>

 

also what do you think of CL in the leaders? was she any good there?