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Why idols can't be socially critical of every issue ("Hypocrisy" of BTS?)


Kevin Bacon

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(If you are here to bash BTS for no reason, this is not the right thread for you. Go somewhere else.)

 

 

So I was thinking deeply today after relistening to BTS songs...Can you truly be socially conscious of certain issues while still being an idol group?

 

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Now obviously, it's great to see groups like BTS to sing and rap about issues that society faces today....their songs about following dreams, never giving up despite the situations you face, loneliness in society, the harsh education system of Korea, talking about mental illness and their own dealing with mental illness, etc. is all very VERY good work and is rare to see in the world of K-Pop.

 

But I wonder if they can truly back up some of the other things that they talk about...

 

 

For example, BTS raps about the trend of young ones today relying on their parents' money to buy expensive clothes and gears in their song Spine Breaker. Instead of focusing on studying or pursuing their dreams, BTS argues these kids "break" their parents' back by wasting their money to buy expensive items and that ultimately, students have the power to make their own money to buy items rather than using their parents' money.

 

But my issue with this is....not even the fact that BTS wears a lot of expensive clothes (in the same song, Rapmon argues that it is okay if you use your own money to buy expensive goods since it's what you earned)...but the fact that BTS also release a lot of expensive merchandise that kids use their parents' money to buy...BTS, as they claim, are the most popular with students. If they know their fanbase is very young and that they have to spend their parents' money to buy it, why does their company continue to release expensive BTS goods? Are they also trying to tell these fans to make their own money to buy the items?

 

Unless they sing a song or talk about about how using your parents money to bulk buy CDs and merchandise is also wrong...is it really fair for them to criticize kids for spending their parents' money to buy expensive items?

 

Now you can argue that it's not BTS problem/fault that kids are spending parents' money to bulk buy BTS albums/BTS merchandise and that they also meant "you have power to make your own money to buy our goods and bulkbuy our albums/don't use your parents' money on our stuff" (all reasonable arguments) but what about this next case?

 

 

BTS criticizes the overusage of phones today in the song Turn Off Your Phone, talking about how people spend their lives taking photos of food and selfies, texting and websurfing while meeting with other people, doing nothing but Facebook, Instagram, tweeting, etc.

 

Now technically, you can't criticize BTS for ALSO using Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, taking selfies and food pics because as a "brand" they need to create awareness through social media and connect with their fans. What you CAN criticize however is that they went onto advertise for data cards that help you recharge phone data to spend  more time on your phone.

 

 

It's kinda hypocritical, to put it bluntly, that you criticize society for spending their time using the phone when you are the spokesperson for cards that help people use the phone longer.

 

 

BTS has released a lot of socially aware songs compared to their contemporaries...and thus they bring themselves to more analysis than others...Honestly, it is great that they speak out about these things and that majority of their releases HAVE been social commentaries rather than simple love/break-up songs. However, as an idol group who also has to mass market themselves....some of these commentaries will unfortunately come back to bite them.

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Same can be said for all groups.

 

Very true...but I spoke about this case since I am more into BTS than others.. and is more acquainted with them.

 

 

Other arguments that can be about other groups are:

 

 

A group who discusses about the wrongs of racism yet culturally appropriates/perpetuates stereotypes.

 

A group talking about how looks don't matter but go onto to rank their faces on their reality show/calls each other ugly..

 

 

but I don't know which groups can fit into these cases.

 

 

 

Also like the user above said, BTS is more prone to criticisms like this one since they release more socially critical songs.

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They work for the master as trying to have an opinnion, aren't we all?, but some don't even try to come across with a message honestly, they can only criticize capitalism at certain extend, then the leash gets tense, since they are bound to it, like August D aka suga says in "The Last" about being an sold act and have a collar in exchange for sucess

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this is really interesting to think about, but I don't think Can You Turn Off Your Phone is much of a song about social commentary vs. a personal preference (specifically Namjoon bc he came up with the lyrics/idea of the song) of not being on the phone while hanging out. I think for him personally it's a bit hypocritical bc he's notorious for being on his phone is a lot of bangtan bombs and group pics but I don't think it applies as much as Spinebreaker does.

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I mean, it's the nature of the beast. You've got special interests that you're beholden to if you're working in mainstream music and entertainment.

 

I'm not going to lambaste them for shining a light on issues that don't get talked about at all in most secular circles. Especially when it's paltry connections.

 

Like these points of critique would be a lot more damning if they were definitively and shamelessly promoting stuff they lambaste. It's not like they wrote spinebreaker but then begged their fans by any means to buy their albums. 

 

And I don't personally think there's anything hypocritical of using social media, but asking people to cut back on social media. If they were asking to straight ban Social Media that's a difference, cause that's talking in pure aboslutes.

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I mean, people are inherently hypocritical to some extent in everything they do.

 

Folks who boycott certain brands for their particular beliefs, aren't going to ask who runs the milk company that they buy their cartons at the store from, even if they support the same things those boycotted brands do.

 

Compromises have to be made. Absolute stances rarely work out in everything unless it's something absolutely morally and legally reprehensible(and even then that's subject to society of the time rather than any hard set rule of life).

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You answered your own questions. Unless they're actively encouraging fans/customers to be irresponsible, it's not their responsibility if fans/customers are irresponsible. The fact that they're speaking out about these issues at all is laudable. Not all fans spend irresponsibly and not all phone customers abuse their phones. Blaming BTS for any of that behavior is ridiculous. But thanks for calling attention to these impressive songs.

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I think in Spine Breaker's case, you're missing a lot of specifically Korean context as explained here. It also explains how the lyrics of that song were actually made by both RM and Suga. I also think they're very specifically talking about using parents' money to buy silly things, as opposed to working for it and buying it yourself. 

 

The Can You Turn Off Your Cellphone also annoys me a bit because it reminds me of those "oh those Millenials who don't know how to talk face-to-face anymore" arguments. But if you interpret it as more of a "hey, sometimes not being on your phone is a good thing," then it becomes a lot more tolerable. I like to think of it as more of a suggestion than a demand, and not as totally damning technology.

 

But this is an interesting discussion OP, I'm glad you brought it up and people are actually discussing this nicely (for now) :D

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"why does their company continue to release expensive BTS goods?"

it's a business,that's why.....

and it's not kids who bulk buy usually you know. Most of the people who bulk buy really use their own money for that. And none of that is BTS' fault and responsibility also.

btw. what is "expensive"?it's a very relative term.

 

As for the other thing, i never took the song very seriously...i mean,they are always on their fuckin phones,lmao. I am always like yooo hypocrites, when i see some of them glued to the phone:') So them endorsing Deku really doesn't bother me (in fact i'm just super-thankful for that song...Suga's part is A+++)

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They write the songs from the perspective of a normal person, they're more than that. I think they can write songs about certain social problems without the same rules/complains being applied to them. 

But it can be slightly hypocritical as well. This isn't simply a yes or no question

 

While I agree that BTS released A LOT of material that can get very expensive if you plan on buying everything, they also release a lot of free material of high quality. This is the way of the world after all, some must pay for other to gain money (even if those are from students). 

About the Telecom CF and Turn off your phone, the CF is for more internet for probably less money if you buy it using those cards or whatever but TOYP is mostly about people not socializing even when they're face to face, not about not using the phone at all.

 

Anyway, Interesting topic.

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spine breaker was about some padded jackets that became a trend in korea... they were very expensive and teens wanted their parents to buy so they could fit in.. you can read more about it here. As for BTS merch, i dont think it fits the same context of the song (spending your parents money to fit in) but i get what you mean. Well. BTS has to make money just like everybody else, so i'm not gonna judge them for that lol.

 

You answered your own questions. Unless they're actively encouraging fans/customers to be irresponsible, it's not their responsibility if fans/customers are irresponsible. The fact that they're speaking out about these issues at all is laudable. Not all fans spend irresponsibly and not all phone customers abuse their phones. Blaming BTS for any of that behavior is ridiculous. But thanks for calling attention to these impressive songs.

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The 8th track…  â€œSpine Breakerâ€..  

I had a lot of thoughts writing these lyrics..  Truthfully, this is a social issue these days… and an issue that effects teenagers.  I wondered, “wasn’t I like that as well when I was a teenager?†  

But still, I didn’t wear jackets worth hundreds of dollars back then.   I think I wrote this, remembering what I was thinking when I saw my friends back then.   Personally, I didn’t wear expensive clothes in high school…so.. I took the opinion of, “I don’t really understand why…â€

And Rap Mon took the view of, “Why can’t you understand?  I’m spending my own money.â€

There’s no one answer to this.  It’s based on personal preference and taste…  You could wear something expensive… and there could be people like me as well…  There’s no right answer.. but you can listen to it and make your own decision. 

Suga-SUGAì˜ Skool Luv Affair Album review

 

 

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Personally I feel like some of these connections are a stretch. I think people are forgetting that Bts is still apart of a business and they have to make money some way and they're not forcing people to buy their merch and products. Especially the data commercial thing, I feel like Bts were criticizing the fact that people don't seem to talk face to face any more, not the fact that people use their phones a lot. 

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They work for the master as trying to have an opinnion, aren't we all?, but some don't even try to come across with a message honestly, they can only criticize capitalism at certain extend, then the leash gets tense, since they are bound to it, like August D aka suga says in "The Last" about being an sold act and have a collar in exchange for sucess

 

Agust D really REALLY kept it real.

 

I agree. Idols, not just BTS, have a restraint with how much they can criticize (specifically capitalism) as they are also essentially products.

 

this is really interesting to think about, but I don't think Can You Turn Off Your Phone is much of a song about social commentary vs. a personal preference (specifically Namjoon bc he came up with the lyrics/idea of the song) of not being on the phone while hanging out. I think for him personally it's a bit hypocritical bc he's notorious for being on his phone is a lot of bangtan bombs and group pics but I don't think it applies as much as Spinebreaker does.

 

Oh...I thought of it as more wider perspective where phone usage hinders everyday life, as in like meeting people and friends...

 

Thanks for letting me know.

 

I mean, people are inherently hypocritical to some extent in everything they do.

 

Folks who boycott certain brands for their particular beliefs, aren't going to ask who runs the milk company that they buy their cartons at the store from, even if they support the same things those boycotted brands do.

 

Compromises have to be made. Absolute stances rarely work out in everything unless it's something absolutely morally and legally reprehensible(and even then that's subject to society of the time rather than any hard set rule of life).

 

Yes, everyone is bound to be hypocritical...and that everyone has to take compromises. I was just pointing out specific cases of it in K-Pop that I personally noticed. It's not a post saying "BTS is always hypocritical!" but more of "BTS can be assumed to be hypocritical here. I think so. What do you think?"

 

"why does their company continue to release expensive BTS goods?"

it's a business,that's why.....

and it's not kids who bulk buy usually you know. Most of the people who bulk buy really use their own money for that. And none of that is BTS' fault and responsibility also.

btw. what is "expensive"?it's a very relative term.

 

As for the other thing, i never took the song very seriously...i mean,they are always on their fuckin phones,lmao. I am always like yooo hypocrites, when i see some of them glued to the phone:') So them endorsing Deku really doesn't bother me (in fact i'm just super-thankful for that song...Suga's part is A+++)

 

I think it's a business that they don't have to necessarily be in if they are so focused in music and being socially aware...but at this point though I am glad they are making as much money as they can.

 

Agree with bolded.

 

They write the songs from the perspective of a normal person, they're more than that. I think they can write songs about certain social problems without the same rules/complains being applied to them. 

But it can be slightly hypocritical as well. This isn't simply a yes or no question

 

While I agree that BTS released A LOT of material that can get very expensive if you plan on buying everything, they also release a lot of free material of high quality. This is the way of the world after all, some must pay for other to gain money (even if those are from students). 

About the Telecom CF and Turn off your phone, the CF is for more internet for probably less money if you buy it using those cards or whatever but TOYP is mostly about people not socializing even when they're face to face, not about not using the phone at all.

 

Anyway, Interesting topic.

 

Yeah it's not a simple yes or no...hence why I kinda let it like this so people can discuss back and forth.

 

 

But I have to disagree with TOYP...it's definitely more about technology, specifically phones, interfering with socializing face to face....

 

 

this post is too black and white OP

 

Want me to add some color?

 

 

sorry for the bad joke lol

 

I tried to make it less black and white...but i guess it still sounds absolute...i def wanted this post to be more discussed about rather than say "they are hypocrites."

 

Honestly it's not that rare to see in KPOP. It's just that you have to look into more than just the title tracks of other groups than only your faves...

Basically there a lot of groups that have such songs, old & new, famous & not so famous etc.

 

I mean yeah..H.O.T has been doing this way before anyone...

 

But BTS is known for these kind of songs compared to other groups and is a more popular case to discuss.

 

That's why i am putting more focus on them.

 

I think in Spine Breaker's case, you're missing a lot of specifically Korean context as explained here. I also think they're very specifically talking about using parents' money to buy silly things, as opposed to working for it and buying it yourself. 

 

The Can You Turn Off Your Cellphone also annoys me a bit because it reminds me of those "oh those Millenials who don't know how to talk face-to-face anymore" arguments. But if you interpret it as more of a "hey, sometimes not being on your phone is a good thing," then it becomes a lot more tolerable.

 

I get the context...I am from Korea haha.

 

And yes, that's why I am saying also it's not a issue if you spend your own money to buy the objects like BTS says.

 

 

I never felt that "Darn millenial" way but now i kinda do now lol....

 

I mean, it's the nature of the beast. You've got special interests that you're beholden to if you're working in mainstream music and entertainment.

 

I'm not going to lambaste them for shining a light on issues that don't get talked about at all in most secular circles. Especially when it's paltry connections.

 

Like these points of critique would be a lot more damning if they were definitively and shamelessly promoting stuff they lambaste. It's not like they wrote spinebreaker but then begged their fans by any means to buy their albums. 

 

And I don't personally think there's anything hypocritical of using social media, but asking people to cut back on social media. If they were asking to straight ban Social Media that's a difference, cause that's talking in pure aboslutes.

My issue with Turn Off Your Phone is not more so with them using social media, as I stated in my post, but the fact that they say using phones too much is not ideal and harming relationships but going onto advertise data cards that help you use the phone longer. I understand these are not "absolute" cases but...in the end, they could have advertised for anythign else that doesn't go against what they said whether 100% or not.

 

You answered your own questions. Unless they're actively encouraging fans/customers to be irresponsible, it's not their responsibility if fans/customers are irresponsible. The fact that they're speaking out about these issues at all is laudable. Not all fans spend irresponsibly and not all phone customers abuse their phones. Blaming BTS for any of that behavior is ridiculous. But thanks for calling attention to these impressive songs.

 

I mean yeah, I am not blaming BTS for anyone's behavior...like I said.

 

But my main problem with TOYP specifically is that they didn't have to advertise for SK Telecom and that it's hypocritical to talk about how using phones a lot during face to face conversation is wrong but advertising products that help you use your phone more and more. It's not BTS fault if people use their phones even more thanks to the product but should they be really advertising that in the first place?

 

And tbh this topic should have been just an endless playlist of good BTS songs.

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Just like you said in the spine breaker they talked about not over spending your parents money for irrelevant things and Namjoon said he'll instead use his own money, Suga said he just won't waste his parents money. BTS aren't responsible for their fans behavior, they've told their fans it's wrong to make your parents suffer so it's not like they're encouraging them to ask their parents for money and I think they've set examples for young fans by talking about when they were also young and they didn't overspend their parents money. Besides I don't think the people who bulk buy an buy their expensive stuff are students.

 

About the "can you turn off your phone", I don't know that they said to not use your phone but rather the most prevalent thing they were complaining about was about people who use their phones when they're talking with someone else, I don't know if that's really a thing the members do but I don't know them personally, so...

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I mean yeah..H.O.T has been doing this way before anyone...

 

But BTS is known for these kind of songs compared to other groups and is a more popular case to discuss.

 

That's why i am putting more focus on them.

 

Wouldn't say they are more known than any other group for it. But I've seen many armys bring it up so maybe that's why some people seem to think that's the case.

 

Interesting discussion nonetheless :)

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BTS is hypocrite. I get it.

But even about spine breaker, V admit that his parents bought him the padded jacket.

 

Their songs are nice, it's music.

But i don't think it's good, if you take all the context of music and use it as a baseline of their real life completely.

It's an art. A product coming out from creativity.

Not all songs are their autobiography with a complete truth on the lyrics.

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