Hyooga 10,307 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 lets be honest and admit kpop has its roots in the johnny kitagawa playbook but if there's one thing the japanese idol industry have mastered and kpop still can't, it's providing longevity and individual careers to many of their idols in many johnny's boybands, even the non popular members have projects that sustain them even if neither they nor their band is at its peak but the kpop shelf life is something that's terrible...just a few years back rain, se7en, boa and hyori were being praised like demigods by international kpop fans (seriously, rain alone had more impact than dbsk) but i barely see any trace of that legacy now. current kpop groups had less impact than those mentioned artists and many group members don't even have individual recall outside the kpop fandom (i remember everyone and their mothers knew rain back then) plus the turnover rate for trends are faster than ever. kpop fans defend the system as 'the group is a more important brand than the individual members' but without going out of asia, we can cite the most legendary groups and you will see all of them are groups wherein the group brand never outshone the individuals INSIDE that group. yes, shinhwa included. even back when they were active, the boys had their own individual endeavors. minwoo was known as the dance machine (and was even already making songs for other groups before it became a trend), junjin was in varieties, shin hye sung was part of another boyband S, etc other long standing groups like Arashi, SMAP, EXILE follow the same format as seen by the recent member departures in kpop groups, these bands are definitely not forever but to many idols, im sure it was simply a stepping stone they needed to take to enter the entertainment industry. kpop companies manufacture these idols way too much that individual growth is hindered because everything needs to be done for the sake of the group. i believe now is the time for them to bravely try and achieve that balance of individual enrichment as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ha:tfelt 67 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 korea is fickle but it helps the music evolve... so the inability for having longevity isn't bad imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyooga 10,307 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 korea is fickle but it helps the music evolve... so the inability for having longevity isn't bad imo at the expense of the artists, sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftswitchsurf 12,276 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 i feel like you make these generalized, shallow statements that kinda fit some ideal that people will cling on to, but is really actually very hollow and isn't saying anything. I dunno if it's just your style, but I get that pattern from you a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4a 13,715 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. Gotta remember that SK, as a whole, is smaller than Japan. There are simply less opportunities for individuals to be a big celebrity in general. The amount of slots are limited. In that regard, SK has actually done decently well with transitioning musical artists and idols to either being a variety veteran (Kim Jong Kook is the best example of this as he debuted as an idol and became a solo artist) or as an actor/actress (Yoon Eun Hye and Hwang Jung Eum being the best examples from Baby VOX and Sugar, respectively. Jang Nara is another example as she was easily one of the most popular artists of the early 2000's and seamlessly transitioned into acting). But really it's a really big idol industry with much fewer opportunities to make a name for yourself since the market as a whole is much smaller. You are also ignoring the idols/artists that buy real estate, open a business and make a name for themselves outside of the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightoflove 748 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 i feel like you make these generalized, shallow statements that kinda fit some ideal that people will cling on to, but is really actually very hollow and isn't saying anything. I dunno if it's just your style, but I get that pattern from you a lot. constantly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ha:tfelt 67 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 at the expense of the artists, sadly eh. sad for the fans but good for the culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos 1,944 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Individual carers??? Not realy, look for 48group and HP. Only small % of them have decent career and after they graduate from group. And only the most popular member get all the gigs while other 135262747 member just fall to backup dancer or audience at var show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyooga 10,307 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 i feel like you make these generalized, shallow statements that kinda fit some ideal that people will cling on to, but is really actually very hollow and isn't saying anything. I dunno if it's just your style, but I get that pattern from you a lot. tl;dr = Kpop is focusing too much on the group brand when there's a lot of potential in molding the members as individuals as well. Maybe, just maybe, if they try to exert more effort in doing so, we will see less members leaving one by one and moving to other companies just because they want to explore a solo career. I put Japan idols as an example because their idol groups are able to balance having good group branding with every members achieving individual success. They also don't wait 3-4 years establishing the group brand before giving individual opportunities to members. With this you get legendary groups filled with top stars. Imagine having a member of an idol group Won Bin level but that member STILL staying in the group because there's a good balance between his career as a group member and as a individual top star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftswitchsurf 12,276 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I didn't need a tl;dr. I understood you perfectly. I just found your whole argument vapid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyooga 10,307 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 Individual carers??? Not realy, look for 48group and HP. Only small % of them have decent career and after they graduate from group. And only the most popular member get all the gigs while other 135262747 member just fall to backup dancer or audience at var show. Hello!Project and 48g are not similar to the format of idols in Korea. AFAIK, Korea is yet to implement the rotation style successfully. Current Kpop groups are more comparable to Johnny's tbh. Hyped up predebut thru minor teasers/appearances then debuting with their own units as a permanent group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyooga 10,307 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 I didn't need a tl;dr. I understood you perfectly. I just found your whole argument vapid. It was more of a minor rant after reading some fan comments about 'the importance of the group'. Fans seem to have difficulty grasping that unless an idol group has all musically-inclined members (like Big Bang), their pursuits will differ which could eventually challenge that group's longevity/activities. The Kpop turnover rate is high. More so than other industries imo. There's a new trending group every six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftswitchsurf 12,276 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 It was more of a minor rant after reading some fan comments about 'the importance of the group'. Fans seem to have difficulty grasping that unless an idol group has all musically-inclined members (like Big Bang), their pursuits will differ which could eventually challenge that group's longevity/activities. The Kpop turnover rate is high. More so than other industries imo. There's a new trending group every six months. This isn't 1997. Most major kpop groups are over five years old. And only recently have a few taken notable hits. Also being trendy isn't the same as being in existence. Fads come and go. That's music, hell that's media. Aint nobody in America listening to that guy with the cheerleader song no more. Once again, Vapid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyooga 10,307 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. Gotta remember that SK, as a whole, is smaller than Japan. There are simply less opportunities for individuals to be a big celebrity in general. The amount of slots are limited. In that regard, SK has actually done decently well with transitioning musical artists and idols to either being a variety veteran (Kim Jong Kook is the best example of this as he debuted as an idol and became a solo artist) or as an actor/actress (Yoon Eun Hye and Hwang Jung Eum being the best examples from Baby VOX and Sugar, respectively. Jang Nara is another example as she was easily one of the most popular artists of the early 2000's and seamlessly transitioned into acting). But really it's a really big idol industry with much fewer opportunities to make a name for yourself since the market as a whole is much smaller. You are also ignoring the idols/artists that buy real estate, open a business and make a name for themselves outside of the industry. great points, but we have to consider that K-Pop celebs as of 2016 have a wider market reach than Japanese idols so it eventually evens out in terms of market size. i notice how Japanese and SK populations are always cited for the lower sales and whatnot when people forget that Hallyu is popular in very populated places like China, Indonesia, Thailand, and even Japan. This not counting its Western fanbase. Yes, it's niche but it adds up. Not to mention Korean celebrities have the opportunities to participate in international projects in China, Taiwan, Japan, SEA. Japan has a huge domestic reach while Hallyu is known internationally. on the average, career opportunities and market reach of both Japanese and Korean idols aren't far from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiichi 3,992 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 2 words: Military Enlistment. Being 2-3 years away from the industry can't really kill the longevity, something that J-Pop idols wouldn't experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suga's GF 3,185 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 the industry is going to collapse in 5-10 years at this rate fam, bookmark this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 The lack of veterans in the industry has always baffled me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedove 1,849 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 The lack of veterans in the industry has always baffled me... This so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remembering 7,109 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 The lack of veterans in the industry has always baffled me... Not me. People who have lived or living in Korea keeps telling everyone that kpop is not that popular and only teens listen to it. Doesn't that convey that kpop idol career is short lived anyways? Even Rain doesn't put out music and he was huge in the 90s. Also, I feel that sometimes kpop fans look down upon veteran groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remembering 7,109 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 It was more of a minor rant after reading some fan comments about 'the importance of the group'. Fans seem to have difficulty grasping that unless an idol group has all musically-inclined members (like Big Bang), their pursuits will differ which could eventually challenge that group's longevity/activities. The Kpop turnover rate is high. More so than other industries imo. There's a new trending group every six months. You bring up Big Bang. While, they are musically inclined, 3 of the members have interests outside of music. Daesung, who could have gone the route of variety shows but was stopped because of a tragic car accident, and Taeyang are the two who mainly focus on music. TOP has acting. Seungri has been a host on Japanese variety shows. GD in fashion. However, their individual activities doesn't seem to stop them spending a few months doing BB activities or year long tours. They just prioritize projects, work around schedules, or continue on with scheduled events with less members but include them in spirit. One example, during the Japanese fan meets where TOP couldn't do because of filming a movie, the members mentioned him and promoted his activity. They also spent time promoting Seungri's Japanese movie which he had a small part. According to attendees who have gone to multiple fan meets, these two promotions always occur. So I guess I'm saying as long as members support each other's individual projects, the group brand will grow along with the individual brand. You can have both. Brand BB is as strong as brand GD. You can say the same to an extent with TOP and Taeyang. Lesser extent to Daesung and Seungri because they do most of their individual activities in Japan. I don't follow Japanese music scene but doesn't Johnny corner like 75-80% of the market? When you're that big and powerful, you have alot more say in other aspects of the entertainment industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Not me. People who have lived or living in Korea keeps telling everyone that kpop is not that popular and only teens listen to it. Doesn't that convey that kpop idol career is short lived anyways? Even Rain doesn't put out music and he was huge in the 90s. Also, I feel that sometimes kpop fans look down upon veteran groups. Rain was the 00s... What I was talking about is how a lot of acts in Korea can't sustain careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedove 1,849 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Not me. People who have lived or living in Korea keeps telling everyone that kpop is not that popular and only teens listen to it. Doesn't that convey that kpop idol career is short lived anyways? Even Rain doesn't put out music and he was huge in the 90s. Also, I feel that sometimes kpop fans look down upon veteran groups. This is really unfortunate. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyooga 10,307 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 The lack of veterans in the industry has always baffled me... One of the things that baffle me. What I find weird in Korea is the fact that an artist needs to be doing a current song to be on music shows and be visible. There's an immense lack of talk programs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 One of the things that baffle me. What I find weird in Korea is the fact that an artist needs to be doing a current song to be on music shows and be visible. There's an immense lack of talk programs too. I also find it odd that greatest hits / best albums aren't a thing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt_flex 29 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 troll thread, but i'll bite. if op knows anything or can even name any music shows adults watch, it would be worth discussing. but for now, opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. japanese celebrities disappear constantly never to be seen again. no longevity whatsoever. how many xxx48 groups are there, and what's their turnover? that brand alone dilutes individuality and longevity of the whole industry. and there are countless others just like them, but probably even less trained. but throw enough bodies at a wall, and some will eventually stick for a while. so getting back to op's a-hole... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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