The Ethics of K-pop

[Ghettoe]

Seems everyone is keen on being a pedo noona or fussing over the next nugu cutie who is like 15 years old or even younger well let's just rain on that parade and discuss this ethically.

 

These kids are overworked and underpaid and I mean severely overworked and underpaid. Child labor laws do not seem to apply in the k-entertainment industry and I was watching Happy Together where this guy was describing that even child actors pretty much have to work these ridiculous schedules.

 

This makes me wonder, in the same fashion, you are consuming this industry, how is that any different from some 12,13 or 14 year old working in a crappy factory just so you can wear those sneakers? Unless you don't care, then carry on, but is some part of you a bit peevish about the fact that pretty much some kid is being overworked for your entertainment.

 

A lot of people are aware that k-pop idols work in shitty conditions but even then many of us don't seem to care enough to do anything. I admit my nonchalance simply because I stan an ahjussi band that I honestly am not even sure what they're doing half the time. Also considering they release an album like once every three years I'm thinking they're resting crazy properly since they have never been on a variety show.

 

However, now I'm really not sure how I feel about this industry.

 

 

PS. Also consider the training period of these kids. How many of your idols started training when they were like 10 or even younger?

 

Should we be okay with this because it's now feeling like these companies are taking children and raising them to be machines who entertain.

[YEOJU]

Well, I see your point. Take Seventeen for example, who have members born in '98, '99, '01, etc.. 

But, if its their dream to debut and be part of the industry, I believe they have all the right to carry on and work as hard as they can.

But they do overwork the boys, most of the times. 

[fuckJohnny]

Let's be real the companies do little to nothing to protect/help their idols.

They are merely a protect and their company owns them.

 

I don't understand how they just overlook the fact that these music companies are exploiting their idols, treating them badly, not allowing them to have any privacy and a love life and not even paying them a fair share.

 

 

 

The K-pop music industry really needs to change and there has to be laws protecting these idols. 

[المروة]

Seems everyone is keen on being a pedo noona or fussing over the next nugu cutie who is like 15 years old or even younger well let's just rain on that parade and discuss this ethically.

 

These kids are overworked and underpaid and I mean severely overworked and underpaid. Child labor laws do not seem to apply in the k-entertainment industry and I was watching Happy Together where this guy was describing that even child actors pretty much have to work these ridiculous schedules.

 

This makes me wonder, in the same fashion, you are consuming this industry, how is that any different from  some 12,13 or 14 year old working in a crappy factory just so you can wear those sneakers? Unless you don't care, then carry on, but is some part of you a bit peevish about the fact that pretty much some kid is being overworked for your entertainment. 

 

A lot of people are aware that k-pop idols work in shitty conditions but even then many of us don't seem to care enough to do anything. I admit my nonchalance simply because I stan an ahjussi band that I honestly am not even sure what they're doing half the time. Also considering they release an album like once every three years I'm thinking they're resting crazy properly since they have never been on a variety show. 

 

However, now I'm really not sure how I feel about this industry. 

 

 

It's different because Korean trainees choose to be trainees, they have a choice to train under harsh conditions whereas poor factory workers need the job to support family and whatnot. Kids in some countries are overworked but I very highly doubt that people like me can change it even though I do give out charity whenever I can. 

 

Regarding kpop idols, most of them are old enough to know their rights and many of us actually do try to support our faves to the best of our abilities. 

[Ghettoe]

Well, I see your point. Take Seventeen for example, who have members born in '98, '99, '01, etc.. 

But, if its their dream to debut and be part of the industry, I believe they have all the right to carry on and work as hard as they can.

But they do overwork the boys, most of the times. 

 

So as long as it's their dream it's okay to take an eleven year old kid and start training them to be the next entertainer? They'll train for like three or four years and then unveil to us this talented product that has been conditioned to dance and sing to perfection. This machine that struggles to be human in a system that demands perfection. No love handles allowed, dark skin isn't pretty, you better correct that nose darling. Meanwhile this kid is only 15, only 16, only 17...

 

OMG, the more I think about this the more I am horrified. I would never let my child do that. 

[mgl]

I see the ethical dilemma.

My guess is that most people just assume that since they are getting paid/taken care of, it's better than working in a shady factory or sweat shop and not "slave work".

[youchewflop]

at least chocolat didn't have to go through all that :(

they aren't relevant enough to be booked all day :'(

[Ghettoe]

It's different because Korean trainees choose to be trainees, they have a choice to train under harsh conditions whereas poor factory workers need the job to support family and whatnot. Kids in some countries are overworked but I very highly doubt that people like me can change it even though I do give out charity whenever I can. 

 

Regarding kpop idols, most of them are old enough to know their rights and many of us actually do try to support our faves to the best of our abilities. 

 

Girls Generation started training when they were like tweens. Are we going to say it's their responsibility because they choose to be trainees? Should a 12 year old have that decision?

 

Most of them debut under a ridiculous contract. Plus the fact that JYJ had to pretty much escape the jail cell that is SM entertainment says a lot. 

[Punk Princess]

This is how i see it. 

 

A lot of these younger kids know what their getting themselves into. Working hard,training hard....etc. Meanwhile,some of them are only doing because they see their oppa or unni on tv doing it and think its all glamour. Kids who are under 13 shouldnt even be given let alone offered a contract. You're basically robbing them out of a childhood. Im COMPLETELY against it if their training at ungodly hours,forced to miss days of school,etc. At the same time like i said,they know what they're getting themselves into and they know that they're giving up their childhood to do so. A lot of them have the choice to leave and go live their lives,esp if they're no where near to debuting yet. But they dont. The companies should know better not to hire kids to handle that kind of lifestyle knowing that 9 times out of 10,they wont be able to handle it. If they wanna make another hit group,they need to hit up high schools, kids in their last year in middle schools,and collages and not grade schools. I do hate that A LOT of them are underpaid. Its wrong esp when the parents invest so much time and money and only get nothing or "your child isnt talented enough." BS. If you cant afford the group,then dont debut them. 

[♆ NEPTUNE ♆]

Nobody forced these kids to be famous  they woke up one day and decided they wanted to be a "IDOL" it's the life they chose and when they feel over worked most just quite the group/or whatever profession they picked.

 

Although I do agree there should be a cut off point as to how much work they're doing (aka hours, cutting out on school time, eating right, ect..)

[Regina]

I just want to be sure that you're equating being an idol and training to child labor and exploitation. This is what you're saying, correct?

[denizen mars]

Of course I am empathetic towards these people and wish things would change, but I am not a South Korean voter. What could I possibly do about their labor laws?
Also, you seem to forget that this is a culture-wide problem (as many things in K-ent reflect the country's ills), not just limited to the entertainment industry. 70+ hour work weeks are standard at big companies. Students work themselves to death and barely get any sleep, either.  So people talk about children being too young for the idol industry, but the school system is almost as demanding if not just as much. The average high school student is in class or studying from 7 am to nearly midnight.

One of the things that's horribly ironic to me is that back during the beginning of Korea's modernization with the Kabo reforms in 1894 (I think, but don't quote me on that), one of the reforms called for was a mandated 40 hour workweek. And in 1970's, South Koreans fought and died for labor rights. It's 2013, and they still don't have even as much workers' rights as we do in the US- and we're certainly no paragon of workers' rights.

[Netizenbuzz]

lol'ing at OP and this thread. How dumb.

[المروة]

Girls Generation started training when they were like tweens. Are we going to say it's their responsibility because they choose to be trainees? Should a 12 year old have that decision?

 

Most of them debut under a ridiculous contract. Plus the fact that JYJ had to pretty much escape the jail cell that is SM entertainment says a lot. 

 

 If a 12-year-old in some parts of the world are able to look after their whole family then a 12-year-old should be able to make a decision like this, besides they were training. They got experience and a preview of what idol life is like and like many other kpop idols if they feel as if that being an idol isn't the right road they can always have a career shift. 

 

Most of them have reasonable parents/guardians that will also be able to advise them on things like this. 

[DocumentaLy]

So as long as it's their dream it's okay to take an eleven year old kid and start training them to be the next entertainer? They'll train for like three or four years and then unveil to us this talented product that has been conditioned to dance and sing to perfection. This machine that struggles to be human in a system that demands perfection. No love handles allowed, dark skin isn't pretty, you better correct that nose darling. Meanwhile this kid is only 15, only 16, only 17...

 

OMG, the more I think about this the more I am horrified. I would never let my child do that. 

 

It's their choice. And it's not as if the average Korean kid isn't working long hours in school.

 

Everyone I liked had their training years ago since I only really like older groups. But let's look at it like this: What would KPop be like without the training? Would they be able to sing and dance as well? Would they look as nice? Would they be as properly behaved? Would people care if the training wasn't in place? I imagine it would be a lot like Japanese idols if there was no training. But then I also imagine that the idols that are actually naturally talented would go down the artist route as opposed to the idol route.

[Netizenbuzz]

Of course I am empathetic towards these people and wish things would change, but I am not a South Korean voter. What could I possibly do about their labor laws?

Also, you seem to forget that this is a culture-wide problem (as many things in K-ent reflect the country's ills), not just limited to the entertainment industry. 70+ hour work weeks are standard at big companies. Students work themselves to death and barely get any sleep, either.  So people talk about children being too young for the idol industry, but the school system is almost as demanding if not just as much. The average high school student is in class or studying from 7 am to nearly midnight.

Fucking thank you. +10000000

[whiteasian]

tbh although i empathize with them, the only thing that is going to change that is legal stuff from korea. and like hell thats going to turn up.

 

and once they reach a certain age, like over 20, they have autonomy. it sucks but there isnt anything i can do about it.

[A Person]

The industry is very horrible. That's why people shouldn't give their money to certain companies that are the main sources of this type of abuse. But there are much bigger problems than just being overworked. Being overworked is just 1% of all the real problems inside the industry.
 
People keep saying "these people know what they're getting into" but the trainees and rookies know what they're getting into nowadays because a lot of the issues have been brought to the public because of JYJ, Brad from Busker Busker, Shinhwa, Han Geng, H.O.T, etc... but before all of this no one really knew how bad the industry was. And even now a lot of things are actually kept from the idols still by the companies.
 
I don't blame people for wanting to chase their dreams. The companies are taking advantage of their idols and the dreams those idols have. Some people just have to make a choice if they want to spend their money on their idol but indirectly support the company or not...

[Ghettoe]

I just want to be sure that you're equating being an idol and training to child labor and exploitation. This is what you're saying, correct?

 

Yes, because in certain countries due to crappy labor laws, company's use child labor. They do pay these kids but they pay them peanuts (Some don't). In a lot of these countries, you find these kids have families but due to the financial situation, go to work in these factories. It's different in certain countries but in others some of these children aren't forced. The family needs the income.

 

How is it any different from this ten year old going into a company as a trainee and pretty much being exploited. He will debut and earn peanuts while the company profits. He/she will collapse out of exhaustion but will take an IV and repeat the situation. We will consume these charming product that this company has given us yet have none of us bothered to ask ourselves if this is okay? Of course because we don't fully know the details behind the scene, we can only assume how gruesome it is from what we've seen so far. Idols collapsing, etc. However, this is the entertainment industry. Which occasionally covers the sex scandal, which has the media at their disposal and gives us this perfect image of our happy and dancing groups, but heavens, when that 14 year old takes of that mask, what is really happening behind the scenes? 

[Irrelephant]

Demand does not subside unless an outside force arrives to subdue it. Media attention and coverage, as well as celebrity action are the only two ways to lessen such expectations from companies and the public. Too many people are under the impression of fear from powerful seniors and CEOs, so it's difficult to solve this issue directly. 

 

Companies absolutely love young talent for a multitude of reasons: softer clay to mold into a desired shape, potential for improvement, if all else fails the kid still has a future and can be easily forsaken, etc. This is why JYP and YG have been sobbing over Bang Yedam throughout K-pop star. This is how BoA prepared herself to become 'queen.' If it's a top-tier company, kids work excessively with the ambition that it will all pay off more than anything else. Maybe we should consider the lives of kids that were far from success stories, but as harsh as it may be, it's much more consenting than factory labor. 

[Seditary]

I can't at this.

 

If you think training is all day every day and that idols should be paid without generating income and that all individuality is stamped out like a bug then I'm just going to feel sad for you instead of the idols.

[Ghettoe]

Of course I am empathetic towards these people and wish things would change, but I am not a South Korean voter. What could I possibly do about their labor laws?

Also, you seem to forget that this is a culture-wide problem (as many things in K-ent reflect the country's ills), not just limited to the entertainment industry. 70+ hour work weeks are standard at big companies. Students work themselves to death and barely get any sleep, either.  So people talk about children being too young for the idol industry, but the school system is almost as demanding if not just as much. The average high school student is in class or studying from 7 am to nearly midnight.

 

Definitely the best argument here contrary to "they chose it." I think there's something crazy about putting some responsibility on some ten year old because they chose this path. Heavens, when I was ten and you charmed me with this ideal of being a celebrity, I might have accepted. What did I know? However, you make the best point in terms of the fact that it's not just this industry but a problem as a whole. Nonetheless, does that excuse our responsibility as the consumers? Should we really take it as "it's fucked up overall and there's nothing I can do about it so I am going to consume anyway?

[Farseer]

Well yes the Korean entertainment industry is a pretty shady business I think.

 

But these young ones choose to become trainees in the hopes of one day debuting as idols, and it can't be that terrible of a life when the number of trainees and idols groups are increasing every year. A lot of them are willing to do anything, even suffer through years of rigorous trainee life, if it means they get to debut eventually, stand on a stage, and make money. Whether they regret their decisions later on in their lives will be on them.

 

The only thing I can hope for is that the parents are somewhat if not 100% involved in their child's career choice and life. But I doubt that this is the case since some of these idols go a year without seeing their families/parents.

[Ghettoe]

I can't at this.

 

If you think training is all day every day and that idols should be paid without generating income and that all individuality is stamped out like a bug then I'm just going to feel sad for you instead of the idols.

... That's all you got?

[denizen mars]

However, you make the best point in terms of the fact that it's not just this industry but a problem as a whole. Nonetheless, does that excuse our responsibility as the consumers? Should we really take it as "it's fucked up overall and there's nothing I can do about it so I am going to consume anyway?

It's not so much that I don't think we should do anything about it, but the problem is so big that we can't make a dent in it instantaneously. You can't just make a petition that says, "We as international fans of this industry will stop providing you with revenue until your entire culture and industry norms change and your country institutes all of these laws and enforces them." I think the best thing we can do is keep writing about it, saying why it's problematic, and gently telling Korean people of our views so they'll feel moved to affect their own political and societal change. 

 

Historically, some great changes in Korea have happened because they wanted them, as self-aware citizens. I hate to say it because it makes the west sound like 'Great White Saviors' but the reason Korean men started debating the importance of educating women and giving them the vote in the 1920's was not because they woke up one day and were like, "Wow, we should really start treating women equally because it's the right thing to do (though many thought this as well)", but because they thought, "Wow, we should treat women equally because it makes us look bad not to as a sovereign nation".