Is the Johnny's monopoly on boybands a thing still?

[DocumentaLy]

On the article that spawned this thread, there was a comment that made me think:

 

Let me explain why J-Pop is not as popular as K-Pop in the West.

 

1. Most Asian Pop music fans, be it East or West, are young women, so performers need to be male. Most of K-Pop acts touring the US and Europe are male. Most of J-Pop acts that the Cool Japan program is trying to push are female, which don't attract loyal female fan base. And due to Johnny's monopoly on male J-Pop idol unit business in Japan, there is little prospect of male J-Pop idol units that could compete with K-Pop units, who are product of cut-throat competition between dozens of agencies and 7~10 years of training. Disillusioned with realities with Japanese music industry dominated by Johnny's and Yakuza, many top Japanese talents are flying over to Korea to sign with Korean agencies, receive Korean style training, and debut as K-Pop unit members instead.

 

2. Quality control : Let's be honest, the quality of Japanese performers lag in abilities compared to Korean or Korean-trained performers.

 

3. Too strict copyrights enforcement on Youtube : Youtube is flooded with clips of K-pop performers from Korean music shows or concerts, often minutes after they are shown or shot. There is very little Music Station clip postings on Youtube due to a strict Japanese-style copyrights enforcement. The end result is that Western audiences are exposed to K-Pop acts much more heavily than J-Pop acts.

 

4. Nobody in J-Pop speaks English or Mandarin. There was a joke that if PSY was Japanese, then he would not have taken off because Japanese PSY would not be able to speak English to talk to his Western fans. But Korean PSY speaks English, rather fluently enough to appear on US talk shows. Almost all K-Pop acts are multilingual with native/near-native speakers in Japanese, English, and Mandarin. Almost all J-Pop acts are Japanese-language only.

 

 

This sounds like any run of the mill comment that someone would leave here or on Arama on or MK or on JT, but one point got to me: the part about the Johnny's monopoly on boybands. Is this really a thing still? I mean we have the LDH boybands, and the KPop ones. And now we have BOYS AND MEN who have managed to get 2 #1 singles so far this year. Between last year and this year, it really makes me question if this monopoly is real still. 

[ninedaysqueen]

I don't even know anything about J-Pop and I know that Johnny's dominates the boy band industry 

[wiz109]

I would think not. I mean what's the last group created that had lasting impact?

 

I think they are losing dominance because to me none of the newer groups stick out.

 

I mean with the older groups like SMAP, Arashi and Kat-tun I can name members, regardless whether I follow them as a fan or not.  Anything post those is all one blur of nothingness.

 

How can they possibly monopolize the industry if none of their newer groups are recognizable, sooner or later other company boyband will pop through like LDH's groups or whatever else.

[sane]

Johnny's is still very much at the top, but it does seem like they're finally losing the monopoly... well, maybe they still have the monopoly on twinks 

[bettyjay]

their problem is that they failed to change with the times. Their groups' music is utter shit, their styling is awful. You have to be specifically a Johnny stan to get it.

 

And who knows, Kpop boy groups might be able to slip through the cracks and gain more dominance. I don't think it's be a huge power shift, but I think that it's slightly more of a level playing field for other idol groups, especially japanese idol groups.

[bettyjay]

I also agree that a lot of would be Japanese idols are running to Korea and I can't blame them. I remember Sana of Twice mentioning that she came to Korea to be an idol because she wanted to be more global and travel/perform all over the world. I mean, if you're a girl and you've got a lot of skills, your options are limited. You can't be the kind of idol you want to be in AKB48 and you might not even be into those kinds of styles or that kind of music. If you're a guy, I guess there are more options, though. I still don't see as many Japanese male trainees in Kpop. I've heard of more female.

[UNNIE]

Most Asian Pop music fans, be it East or West, are young women, so performers need to be male.

 

Heterosexual fangirls rule the pop industry.

[correcaminos20]

I mean we have the LDH boybands, and the KPop ones. And now we have BOYS AND MEN who have managed to get 2 #1 singles so far this year. Between last year and this year, it really makes me question if this monopoly is real still. 

 

 

In 2002 you already had Exile and there was W-inds that got plenty of #1 singles at the time, so it was basically the same scenario minus the K-Pop boybands.  For whatever reason I think no one is taking the LDH boybands into consideration otherwise it's been a "duopoly", if that even exists, since the 2000.

Also you have like 10 or 12 Johnny's acts topping the charts vs 3 or 4 LDH acts and 1 or 2 that are from other companies. So Johnny's are still dominating the market.

I believe Music Station is the parameter, if a lot of non Johnny's/LDH boybands start performing there then the monopoly (or duopoly) is over. 

[SeeYaWithYou]

well, maybe they still have the monopoly on twinks 

Not anymore tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCaV6OTU8gk

[DocumentaLy]

I also agree that a lot of would be Japanese idols are running to Korea and I can't blame them. I remember Sana of Twice mentioning that she came to Korea to be an idol because she wanted to be more global and travel/perform all over the world. I mean, if you're a girl and you've got a lot of skills, your options are limited. You can't be the kind of idol you want to be in AKB48 and you might not even be into those kinds of styles or that kind of music. If you're a guy, I guess there are more options, though. I still don't see as many Japanese male trainees in Kpop. I've heard of more female.

 

If you're a girl in Japan who's got a lot of skills, you don't become an idol, you become an artist.

 

 

 

Most Asian Pop music fans, be it East or West, are young women, so performers need to be male.

 

Heterosexual fangirls rule the pop industry.

 

I found that comment to be odd on this article since this wasn't really a piece about pop music, but more about other genres, which in my experience, tend to have more male fanbases.

 

 

In 2002 you already had Exile and there was W-inds that got plenty of #1 singles at the time, so it was basically the same scenario minus the K-Pop boybands.  For whatever reason I think no one is taking the LDH boybands into consideration otherwise it's been a "duopoly", if that even exists, since the 2000.

Also you have like 10 or 12 Johnny's acts topping the charts vs 3 or 4 LDH acts and 1 or 2 that are from other companies. So Johnny's are still dominating the market.

I believe Music Station is the parameter, if a lot of non Johnny's/LDH boybands start performing there then the monopoly (or duopoly) is over. 

 

But w-inds., like DA PUMP, were soon blacklisted. EXILE, like CHEMISTRY, was able to exist because they were more urban, less pop. LDH also wasn't a thing back then. But LDH has definitely shifted more pop this decade. I doubt EXILE would be around now if they were more pop back then.

 

But is Music Station needed if you can already top the charts?

 

 

Not anymore tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCaV6OTU8gk

 

STOP!

[bettyjay]

If you're a girl in Japan who's got a lot of skills, you don't become an idol, you become an artist.

 

 

 

 

Lmao what kind of elitist...some skilled girls actually DO want to be idols and debut in pop groups. Having skill and being an idol aren't mutually exclusive, especially if you want to sing and dance in a group but not do AKB shit.

[DocumentaLy]

Lmao what kind of elitist...some skilled girls actually DO want to be idols and debut in pop groups. Having skill and being an idol aren't mutually exclusive, especially if you want to sing and dance in a group but not do AKB shit.

 

Mmm, the scene is elitist.

[Jeffrey Jung]

Not anymore tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCaV6OTU8gk

THIS PUN

[sane]

Not anymore tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCaV6OTU8gk

 

well damn 

[correcaminos20]

But w-inds., like DA PUMP, were soon blacklisted. EXILE, like CHEMISTRY, was able to exist because they were more urban, less pop. LDH also wasn't a thing back then. But LDH has definitely shifted more pop this decade. I doubt EXILE would be around now if they were more pop back then.

 

But is Music Station needed if you can already top the charts?

 

 

I don't know, I still don't see much in common musically between LDH and Johnny's, actually urban strikes me as more Johnny-like than the music they are doing now. Also w-inds was blacklisted but they still sold considerably well for 4 or 5 years.

 

It's not that Music Station is needed but if a boyband is topping the chart yet doesn't perform on MS it may mean that Johnny's are still controlling that market (if all the rumours about Johnny's blacklisting other boybands are true that is). That's why I think that other boybands appearing on MS would signal that Johnny's is losing influence.

[lepidoptery]

Irrelevant to the question, but... if I were an ambitious would-be male idol, and for some reason I didn't want to go with Johnnies, and my other option for relevance/success were LDH, I'd be pretty sad.  You don't get to sing and dance in LDH, after all.

[miimuutan]

Here's what I think.....

 

When Jpop fans and news websites say it's the 'age of the idols' they are certainly right. There are hundreds of idol groups nationwide in Japan and they flood both the mainstream and indie scene quite relentlessly. But in last couple years there has also been an substantial increase in the amount of bands and solo artists that have popped up; either from the indie scene or just out of nowhere. What's more many bands/artists (mostly female ones) seem to be getting younger and there has also been a rather impressive boom in the amount of girl bands as well. These girls are almost always extremely gifted and have skills from multiple talent forms. 

 

What Japan needs to do (I'm looking at you Cool Japan; make yourself useful) is advertise the indie scene. And I certainly don't mean the indie idol scene. Thankfully, more and more indie acts in Japan have been getting their name out by taking it upon themselves to create their own Youtube channels or Soundcloud accounts. There are hundreds of hidden gems out there. The indie scene is filled with acts that could go far and wide if they were advertised internationally by big name companies. Artists like Band-Maid and Daoko have only gotten famous by chance. Daoko for example (while I love her to death) just happened to be featured in a video that just happened to go viral. 

 

Right now the most international exposure Jpop (non-idol) acts are getting is through anime. TK's fanbase blew up after Tokyo Ghoul and Mizuki Nana is known world wide. But there's only so much anime and not even popular artists get that kind of opportunity often. I follow the indie scene religiously and there are tons upon tons of bands and artists that have potential to lead the 'new- generation' into a future where Jpop is recognized world wide like it deserves to be.

 

Sorry that kinda turned into a semi-rant. I hope I got my point across... 

[DocumentaLy]

Irrelevant to the question, but... if I were an ambitious would-be male idol, and for some reason I didn't want to go with Johnnies, and my other option for relevance/success were LDH, I'd be pretty sad.  You don't get to sing and dance in LDH, after all.

 

Yes, you do.

 

 

Here's what I think.....

 

When Jpop fans and news websites say it's the 'age of the idols' they are certainly right. There are hundreds of idol groups nationwide in Japan and they flood both the mainstream and indie scene quite relentlessly. But in last couple years there has also been an substantial increase in the amount of bands and solo artists that have popped up; either from the indie scene or just out of nowhere. What's more many bands/artists (mostly female ones) seem to be getting younger and there has also been a rather impressive boom in the amount of girl bands as well. These girls are almost always extremely gifted and have skills from multiple talent forms. 

 

What Japan needs to do (I'm looking at you Cool Japan; make yourself useful) is advertise the indie scene. And I certainly don't mean the indie idol scene. Thankfully, more and more indie acts in Japan have been getting their name out by taking it upon themselves to create their own Youtube channels or Soundcloud accounts. There are hundreds of hidden gems out there. The indie scene is filled with acts that could go far and wide if they were advertised internationally by big name companies. Artists like Band-Maid and Daoko have only gotten famous by chance. Daoko for example (while I love her to death) just happened to be featured in a video that just happened to go viral. 

 

Right now the most international exposure Jpop (non-idol) acts are getting is through anime. TK's fanbase blew up after Tokyo Ghoul and Mizuki Nana is known world wide. But there's only so much anime and not even popular artists get that kind of opportunity often. I follow the indie scene religiously and there are tons upon tons of bands and artists that have potential to lead the 'new- generation' into a future where Jpop is recognized world wide like it deserves to be.

 

Sorry that kinda turned into a semi-rant. I hope I got my point across... 

 

But are JPop fans and news sites saying it's the age of idols though? I feel as if it's idol fans saying that, and also female soloists fans who aren't really in touch with the current scene and just want to blame idols for their faves lack of current success because they see them topping the charts.

 

But you are right in that there are many bands and singer-songwriters popping up now. This is the new trend.

 

I also think the indie scene should be pushed and that Cool Japan should do something with them. And as the article in the OP says, these acts are taking it upon themselves now, which I admire. And I think these acts doing things on their own is breaking Japanese music out of that anime niche internationally.

[gyrobot]

Lmao what kind of elitist...some skilled girls actually DO want to be idols and debut in pop groups. Having skill and being an idol aren't mutually exclusive, especially if you want to sing and dance in a group but not do AKB shit.

I agree. Idols who's inspiration is from Namie and Koda should be able to have choreo resembling the soloists and groups that allows them to explore into that. Not be forced to be dancing robots to stay relevant. Sana, Momo and Mina are examples of Japanese gorls who went to Be KIdols just because the options for choreo and music as a JIdol group is extremely limited.

 

To speak nothing about how the duopoly works in Japan.

[DocumentaLy]

I agree. Idols who's inspiration is from Namie and Koda should be able to have choreo resembling the soloists and groups that allows them to explore into that. Not be forced to be dancing robots to stay relevant. Sana, Momo and Mina are examples of Japanese gorls who went to Be KIdols just because the options for choreo and music as a JIdol group is extremely limited.

 

To speak nothing about how the duopoly works in Japan.

 

Did you write the comment in the OP?

 

If they want to do that, they can join LDH. That is their whole point. 

[gyrobot]

I didnt unfortunately. But I do agree with the opinion of the OP.

 

LDH have to distance themselves from the idol name if they want to be on friendly terms with the giants who is extremely comfortable with their monopoly given how they had used their media clout to shift interests around. But for girls who wants to dance interesting choreos and be actuall idols they have to go to Korea to get that kind of opprtunity.

[DocumentaLy]

I didnt unfortunately. But I do agree with the opinion of the OP.

 

LDH have to distance themselves from the idol name if they want to be on friendly terms with the giants who is extremely comfortable with their monopoly given how they had used their media clout to shift interests around. But for girls who wants to dance interesting choreos and be actuall idols they have to go to Korea to get that kind of opprtunity.

 

Let's be real, the LDH acts are idols.

[gyrobot]

I agree with you that they are idols. But LDH knows if they ever said their groups were idols Johnny and AkiP will see them as direct competition. You said it yourself that Johnny had blacklisted male idol groups before. AkiP is following the same business tactics as Johnny did so 48G will be the only established female idol in time. What with devaluing certain types of groups that dont fit AKB's style. Creating a mentality and cult of personality that fans follow religously and expect the idols to do the same.

 

The only difference is there are offshoots but in the end they all dance the same with the difference in packaging. I havent seen an Egirls inspired Anisong idol.

[mochichan]

AkiP is following the same business tactics as Johnny did so 48G will be the only established female idol in time. What with devaluing certain types of groups that dont fit AKB's style.

Wtf is this...? How is AKB "the only established idol" when Momoclo could compete with AKB at their peaks and their accomplishments like Nissan took less time than AKB considering AKB is older. How are they devaluing any groups that are different? Perfume? Babymetal? Egirls might not be super big but they're well known name. It's really annoying how you always just say shit bc it fit your own bias view without anything backing it up. Stawph~

[DocumentaLy]

I agree with you that they are idols. But LDH knows if they ever said their groups were idols Johnny and AkiP will see them as direct competition. You said it yourself that Johnny had blacklisted male idol groups before. AkiP is following the same business tactics as Johnny did so 48G will be the only established female idol in time. What with devaluing certain types of groups that dont fit AKB's style. Creating a mentality and cult of personality that fans follow religously and expect the idols to do the same.

 

The only difference is there are offshoots but in the end they all dance the same with the difference in packaging. I havent seen an Egirls inspired Anisong idol.

 

Umm, how are Momoclo and the H!P groups and BABYMETAL still having success if there is a monopoly on female idols?

 

If anything, the female idol scene as a whole is a lot more diverse than the male one, and even the Korean female idol scene. Look at groups like Dempagumi.inc, BiSH, Especia, Necronomidol, You'll Melt More, and so on. Doing contemporary dance pop just isn't their thing, in part because that isn't really a sound that is popular in Japan as a whole.