Cloud Of Perception 12,466 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Why is it that so many males in society place such a high connection between self value and the fact they are with women, so many of my friends do this and I have noticed this happen in large scales with a lot of men everywhere from school, ads, media and overall society. Why do you think so many men bend over backwards to please women, do you think this reflects the constant mental conditioning that is placed on young boys from a young age or is it do to simple biology?. I have noticed even from elementary school all the boys around me would be told to act like gentlemen and all sorts of other things, even my own parents drilled this in my head, even I myself used to subconsciously do things like open the door, offer my jacket when it was cold to my female friend, pay for stuff and etc. I did these things for males too and their is nothing wrong with doing these things but I went out of my way to do it for females almost naturally. I realized that the same never happens for females there is no social conditioning to value themselves by the men they have around them and how well they treat them, she doesn't get a pat in the back for doing these things for males because its not expected or even wanted by society so In a world where equality is the new norm why do you think a man is still expected and trained to do these things. So its two questions - 1. Why do so many males in society place such a high connection between self value and the fact they are with women. 2. Why is chivalry still expected to be a one sided thing by so many and are boys trained into this mentality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acclaimâ„¢ 2,722 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 equality comes with sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unemployedblackman 359 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I don't do this around my gf's. Then i get called an asshole for not doing it. It's not hard to gasp the concept on why men do it, men are strong and women are weak. It's human nature were supposed to protect the weak not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewy 9 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 so In a world where equality is the new norm why do you think a man is still expected and trained to do these things. Because feminism currently has a monopoly on defining equality, and feminism is characterized by... prioritizing women. Therefore, feminism's "equality", in practice, basically amounts to prioritizing women over men in every circumstance. Even though the goal is to liberate women from expectations (which is a good thing in and of itself), men will never be liberated from their respective gender roles/expectations because they primarily benefit women at the expense of men. Feminists give lip service to the idea of liberating both sexes through feminism. But ultimately, when feminist utopia is achieved, you and all men will still be left behind on the sinking ship while all the women are herded onto the lifeboats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesclues 5,048 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 "I realized that the same never happens for females there is no social conditioning to value themselves by the men they have around them and how well they treat them.." I disagree with this comparison. Women are also conditioned in most cases to act like a lady but interesting enough, while I think men are told to be chivalrous and generally do this, this, and that when women are around, women are told not to do this, this, and that when men or strangers are around/while outside. We're both constrained in our actions in a sense but while men are praised for doing such actions (and in some subconscious level everyone appreciates being complimented), women are "restrained" from doing. So it's kind of becomes natural for one side to be the "giver" and the other "receiver" in social situations. Personally, the idea of chivalry is nice but the ones who go overboard (by my definition) do make it unpleasant. Like when men hold the door open even though it will obviously take me a bit to get to that side of the room (especially in heels) and how I don't need you standing up when I leave the table. But the gesture behind it is always appreciated from my side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Of Perception 12,466 Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 "I realized that the same never happens for females there is no social conditioning to value themselves by the men they have around them and how well they treat them.." I disagree with this comparison. Women are also conditioned in most cases to act like a lady but interesting enough, while I think men are told to be chivalrous and generally do this, this, and that when women are around, women are told not to do this, this, and that when men or strangers are around/while outside. We're both constrained in our actions in a sense but while men are praised for doing such actions (and in some subconscious level everyone appreciates being complimented), women are "restrained" from doing. So it's kind of becomes natural for one side to be the "giver" and the other "receiver" in social situations. Personally, the idea of chivalry is nice but the ones who go overboard (by my definition) do make it unpleasant. Like when men hold the door open even though it will obviously take me a bit to get to that side of the room (especially in heels) and how I don't need you standing up when I leave the table. But the gesture behind it is always appreciated from my side. I meant they arent expected to do the same thing not that they dont have their own set of conditioning. Women acting like "ladies" is also something that they are trained to do the same way men are trained to be the givers the women are trained to be the receivers like you said. As a kid I just did these things because I thought that I should because its the right thing to do but once I stepped back and questioned I honestly couldnt come up with a reasonable and fair reason why I was doing these things, I dont understand the need for men to do these things anymore, in prior times It was understandable because of the times they lived in but in modern society why is there still the expectations for these actions and if people insist to keep this tradition shouldnt there be more of a push for females to do the same thing. Also from what I have seen from my friends and other men it seems that most of the things they do are for female attention or approval, one of my friends for ex. recently bought a motorcycle and I asked him why he decided on such a thing and he flat out told me it was to impress his girlfriend, he made such a drastic decision simply guided by the motive of pleasing his girlfriend he doesnt even like motorcycles and I have seen so many other cases like this and I really cant seem to understand things like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yume 3,886 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1. Why do so many males in society place such a high connection between self value and the fact they are with women. 2. Why is chivalry still expected to be a one sided thing by so many and are boys trained into this mentality I'm a girl and I was also taught to hold the door open for others etc. I think it's because as a society we place value in how we assist others especially those who are culturally seen as 'weaker' (women, children, elderly, handicapped, etc). I don't think it's that only males but everyone who places a high value in this. It's just that males (especially young ones) are seen at top of this ladder. If someone was an asshole to someone else we would all think them rude but the outrage would be much greater if that person was a small old lady. I hope you get what I'm trying to say . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Of Perception 12,466 Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm a girl and I was also taught to hold the door open for others etc. I think it's because as a society we place value in how we assist others especially those who are culturally seen as 'weaker' (women, children, elderly, handicapped, etc). I don't think it's that only males but everyone who places a high value in this. It's just that males (especially young ones) are seen at top of this ladder. If someone was an asshole to someone else we would all think them rude but the outrage would be much greater if that person was a small old lady. I hope you get what I'm trying to say . I get it but according to society we are completely equal so why are young males seen as the top of the ladder for certain things like this where they are the ones assisting someone. Holding the door open for someone was just a small example but I was more speaking about the whole act of chivalry. I have helped countless people and Its not that I hate doing it in fact I like helping others but I do wonder why its such a necessity to restrict it to just males helping anymore, I'm sure females do these things too but its not expected in the same manner that it is with a man. For ex. the saying "women and children first" is still popular thing to say but in modern times why is the man still expected to solely take on these things when we are told we are all equal, shouldnt these things be handled by everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yume 3,886 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I get it but according to society we are completely equal so why are young males seen as the top of the ladder for certain things like this where they are the ones assisting someone. Holding the door open for someone was just a small example but I was more speaking about the whole act of chivalry. I have helped countless people and Its not that I hate doing it in fact I like helping others but I do wonder why its such a necessity to restrict it to just males helping anymore, I'm sure females do these things too but its not expected in the same manner that it is with a man. For ex. the saying "women and children first" is still popular thing to say but in modern times why is the man still expected to solely take on these things when we are told we are all equal, shouldnt these things be handled by everyone I think in society we would ideally be equal but in reality we aren't there yet.I kinda of think there might be some evolutionary bias in men to want to be protective, because traits like strength and being able to protect others is seen as desirable in males. Over time as a society we have taken that bias and turned it into the idea of chivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurking Pervert 23 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Just want to add one thing: the original Chivalry code is actually only partly compromised of manners towards women, whereas the majority of it deals with sword-fighting etiquette and gun-dueling rules. T"he methods of training and standards of behavior for knights in the Middle Ages. The code of chivalry emphasized bravery, military skill, generosity in victory, piety, and courtesy to women." About 10% dealt with courtesy to women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil 139 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 1. Why do so many males in society place such a high connection between self value and the fact they are with women. from what I noticed..where I am from at least some males do tend to care for women in such of a respect but there are also a lot who doesn't..but those are the ones who usually labeled as rude 2. Why is chivalry still expected to be a one sided thing by so many and are boys trained into this mentality I personally think that there should be both ways, for example I do appreciate people opening the door and holding it because someone is behind them no matter the gender, and that what mostly happens here. I do the same people I think of it as common courtesy, but I find that men tend to turn it down.. by this I mean they will stop and hold the door in my stead which is nice but I still. At least from where I am from though its pretty equal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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