[WARNING: Political-ish rant] Our culture of greed [capslock alert]

[CreepyPanda]

So I saw this

 

 

 

And I am just fed up with GREED. Now I know I'm a Christian and I guess that makes me feel differently to other people, but I CAN NOT understand the opposition to left-wing economics! The guy in the video says that "capitalism has brought millions of people out of poverty" I say that capitalism has made brought millions of DOLLARS AWAY FROM SOLVING POVERTY. 

 

Now, before you call me a communist, I'm not. I'm not a communist, nor am I a socialist as most people think of socialists, because perfect communism and perfect socialism DON'T WORK - we can see that from history, look at Russia, communism is a failure. You know what else doesn't work? CAPITALISM! And you know how I can tell you that it doesn't work? By looking at the PRESENT. Capitalism does not work in its pure form any more than communism does! Look at the world today, the world that is dominated by first world, capitalist societies - can you tell me that this world is a good place? Can you tell me that the good things that ARE in this world are good BECAUSE of capitalism? That is a weak argument. If you define 'socialism' not as radical Marxist thinking, and instead define socialism as the allocation of tax money to people who need it, then YES I am a socialist and a proud one at that.

 

You live in a first world country, and you pay taxes to the government. That is the reality of first world society. And it seems people accept taxes as long as they DON'T GO TOWARD ACTUALLY HELPING PEOPLE. Why? Tell me why taxes suddenly become evil when they go towards helping poor people and people in need, but when taxes go toward things that will make rich people richer, they're fine? Yes, under a left-wing economic government people, specifically wealthy people, will be taxed more, and less of that money will go into making them richer, so, YES, in effect they will end up poorer, but they will NOT end up being POOR, and people who ARE poor will also end up NO LONGER POOR! This is defined by the rich people as 'stealing', paying taxes to them is stealing, but only if that tax money goes to poor people and legitimate social causes?

 

Let me debunk a myth here - "but poor peeple r ony poor bcoz thay r layzy"

 

Someone who is just scraping by in life will work INFINITELY HARDER than someone who sits behind a desk and makes millions - this I can almost guarantee you. Yes, dole bludgers exist, and they're definitely a problem, but not everyone who relies on benefits for a significant part of their income is a dole bludger. Let me use an anecdote here, and if you're going to blame me for trying to start a personal pity party stop reading now because I'm not here for your immaturity:

 

My family certainly isn't poor. We live comfortably in a decent house, we pay our bills on time for the most part, I go to a good school, we eat well, we sleep in beds, under a roof - we are not poor. But we're in the second lowest tax bracket (not including the bracket of un-taxable income), and we're not well off. We are pretty lucky in what we have, but we lack a lot of things too - our car is breaking down, our oven and stove are faulty (sounds petty but it can be a legit drama), we can't take our cat to the vet if he needs to go (also sounds petty but, being an outdoor cat prone to injury, there are plenty of times where we've been unsure if he was going to live through whatever was wrong with him, but we had to take the chance anyway) - the point here isn't to point out what we lack, but to point out how reliant we really are on social benefits. And our financial situation is NOT because of laziness, my dad works so, so hard to provide what he can for us - he is not lazy, he isn't an underachiever, he isn't someone who 'didn't take advantage' of whatever 'opportunity' rich people think it was that made them rich, he just, as a chef in the town we live in, doesn't have very lucrative employment options, so don't you DARE accuse him of being lazy, or anyone else because YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES. Now, here's where it gets real - my mum has cancer, and we are so, SO blessed to live in Australia where we have a good healthcare system - without which my mother would be dead. In America, healthcare is not great, not as great as it is here, and there is NOTHING more heartbreaking than seeing someone have to make the decision between saving their own lives and bankrupting their family, or sacrificing themselves to prevent total financial destitution. Australia is a good country to live in in terms of economics, but other countries first world countries, aren't, not from what I've seen, and it's an issue that can be fixed if people would just give a damn.

 

As I said before, I'm a Christian, this definitely makes me biased, but I can't understand how greedy people can be the way they are, ESPECIALLY since a lot of the right-wing voting demographic IS CHRISTIAN, and that a lot of that demographic vote right wing BECAUSE OF THAT REASON. Right-wing politics does NOT hold up Christian values. You think that disallowing gay marriage and abortion creates a Christian utopia? You think that that's the most important thing? It's not, because these governments are run by GREED, and yet right wing Christians have the audacity to say that left-wing politics is evil.

 

Let's turn the tables here and clarify a few things. I am not blaming the world's problems on capitalism. I am not endorsing communism. We need capitalism for a functioning society, but we need it in a much different and much WEAKER form than it currently exists. People opposed to left-wing economics and 'socialism' will tell you that it's theft - and maybe it is. I wish we lived in a world where rich people didn't have to be coerced to help the poor, but we do, and that's why perfect capitalism doesn't work, because if we don't use coercion, most people just don't give a damn. It's a sad reality that taxes have to be imposed on rich people, especially rich Christians ^{("In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’â€)}, but it's the reality of our situation. If we have to 'steal' from rich people, and 'stop them from spending and controlling their own money' in order to even try to help people who a genuinely in need, then that's. what. we. need. to. do. It's sad, it is, how I wish people would give freely, but they don't. They just don't. Greed rules this world.

 

A conclusion - this rant isn't targeted at anyone who is reading it now. I'm not trying to inspire middle class guilt, or make you feel guilty for not giving to charity or anything, but just in case Donald Trump or any other disgustingly rich idiot is reading this I'M TALKING TO YOU! Especially if you claim to be a Christian - Jesus said that we should sell ALL OF OUR POSSESSIONS to follow Him, I'm not even asking you to do that, just stop staying in million-dollars-a-night hotels, and drinking wine distilled from the piss of blind himalayan eunuch monks or whatever stupid, irresponsible thing you're spending your billions on now, and put some money somewhere WISE. Put your money somewhere TRUE. Use your money to HELP people, because you CAN. 

 

Help a person in need today. That doesn't mean you have to give to charity, or vote for a left-wing political party, or feed the homeless (feel free to do those things though, they're all good), but just do something good. Anything. Anything that will help a person who needs help, because they're out there. So many people need your help, don't deny them that. We will never fix the world. Never. What's saddest about that is that we can fix the world, we just won't do it. Let's pretend we can fix the world, that starts with you. 

 

Before you ask, no I didn't correct this for spelling and grammar and all-round-cohesiveness, so if you want to point out any of the glaring spelling or grammatical mistakes I've inevitably made, go ahead, if that's all you have to say.

[Is there a problem?]

its actually the middle class that is making the rest of the world poor. you have your high standard of living because your governments and companies are controlling the world economy for you. without war the price of everyday goods will be dictated by the countries that supply the world. this is why oil is 60 dollars a barrel and not 200 dollars. competitive capitalist markets is why prices are low.

 

individual billionaires cant make you richer. thats the stupidest thing ive heard all year.. and ive been on this site for awhile. and yes the rich do donate to charity. in fact they probably donate more then the whole middle class combined.

 

you wanna save humanity but are you willing to sacrifice even more then you are now?

[Wasta]

Why is that whenever people think of the "rich" they think of these disgustingly wealthy megalomaniacs who sit around at desks all day? There are wealthy people that make six figures and got there through hard work and intelligence. Do you know how much dedication and suffering and volunteering goes into just graduating from med school as a doctor? Why is is so outrageous to think that some people should be rewarded for what they have accomplished? And those who are millionaires and billionaires are often involved in some sort of charity where they give more money than any working class person could ever dream of. They maybe be donating for press or publicity or what have you but that money is still helping people. 

 

The first step to getting people out of poverty is education. People won't get hired for high paying jobs if THEY DON'T HAVE THE NECESSARY SKILL SET. And because of this there will always people who work menial labor jobs because some one has to do it and the lawyers and doctors and engineers are busy doing other tasks that they cannot be replaced in because of their skill set. 

 

That being said, I am Catholic and believe people should be treated with compassion always, especially the poor and the needy. But do I want the government dictating this? No. I believe in a separation of religion and state. 

[CreepyPanda]

its actually the middle class that is making the rest of the world poor. you have your high standard of living because your governments and companies are controlling the world economy. without war the price of everyday goods will be dictated by the countries that supply the world. this is why oil is 60 dollars a barrel and not 200 dollars. competitive capitalist markets is why prices are low.

 

individual billionaires cant make you richer. thats the stupidest thing ive heard all year.. and ive been on this site for awhile. and yes the rich do donate to charity. in fact they probably donate more then the whole middle class combined.

 

you wanna save humanity but are you willing to sacrifice even more then you are now?

I'm absolutely willing to sacrifice. I'm not attached to money (that said, I don't have any). I know it's the middle class (the majority in first world societies) that puts the most strain on the economy, but billionaires are not blameless. War is another issue that I could harp on about (proud pacifist). It's not just inside our countries that we have economic responsibility - we need to change the economies of first world countries so that money can go to places like Africa and the Middle East who have REAL problems (first world poverty is luxury compared to actual poverty), but I think that the first step to solving these problems in an efficient way (if it was going to be easy, it would already be done) is sorting out our own situations, at least to an extent, which would mean equalising wealth (not completely, but right now we have the 1% vs the 99% and that isn't acceptable in my eyes).

[h0neanias]

It is written: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me," and again: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

 

Say what you will about christianity or capitalism, but the view that it is christian to lobby for unfettered greed is obviously and patently false.

[Blue_Knight]

 

Why is that whenever people think of the "rich" they think of these disgustingly wealthy megalomaniacs who sit around at desks all day? There are wealthy people that make six figures and got there through hard work and intelligence. Do you know how much dedication and suffering and volunteering goes into just graduating from med school as a doctor? Why is is so outrageous to think that some people should be rewarded for what they have accomplished? And those who are millionaires and billionaires are often involved in some sort of charity where they give more money than any working class person could ever dream of. They maybe be donating for press or publicity or what have you but that money is still helping people. 

 

The first step to getting people out of poverty is education. People won't get hired for high paying jobs if THEY DON'T HAVE THE NECESSARY SKILL SET. And because of this there will always people who work menial labor jobs because some one has to do it and the lawyers and doctors and engineers are busy doing other tasks that they cannot be replaced in because of their skill set. 

 

That being said, I am Catholic and believe people should be treated with compassion always, especially the poor and the needy. But do I want the government dictating this? No. I believe in a separation of religion and state. 

This. I feel where the OP is coming from. And I do agree that if you have the money, donate it. If you don't want to, help other people in some other way. And if you can't do both, then at least be kind and compassionate. But not all rich people got their wealth at the blink of an eye. Some of them got theirs for their sheer hard work, especially the founders (not the so-called COOs/Child of the Owners). They earned it.

 

I'm not rich. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'm probably on the negative. And I don't particularly like giving money so carelessly because I have trust issues like that. The best way I could help is by giving food (because beggars in my area are notorious for spending money on drugs and other vices).

[CreepyPanda]

Why is that whenever people think of the "rich" they think of these disgustingly wealthy megalomaniacs who sit around at desks all day? There are wealthy people that make six figures and got there through hard work and intelligence.

In the same way that I said that poor people aren't lazy, I need to also say, as it is TRUTH, that rich people aren't greedy. But, like the percentage of poor people that ARE lazy, there is a percentage of rich people who ARE greedy - and, of course, one greedy rich person is more of a liability than one lazy poor person. Of course, it's a hypothetical liability; rich people coveting wealthy doesn't CAUSE poverty, it's not a proactive evil, but it's certainly a passive evil.

 

Why is is so outrageous to think that some people should be rewarded for what they have accomplished? And those who are millionaires and billionaires are often involved in some sort of charity where they give more money than any working class person could ever dream of. They maybe be donating for press or publicity or what have you but that money is still helping people. 

.It isn't outrageous. So many people who are wealthy, in fact I would say MOST of them, have got to the position they are in through hard work, and intelligence and suffering and perseverance. That said, read the parable of The Widow's Offering. That parable isn't even necessarily about money, but it's certainly applicable (in a less dramatic way than it is applicable to spiritual reality).

 

That being said, I am Catholic and believe people should be treated with compassion always, especially the poor and the needy. But do I want the government dictating this? No. I believe in a separation of religion and state. 

This isn't just a religious thing. My beliefs are certainly a factor in my viewpoint, but I believe it is a moral responsibility for all people. regardless of faith, to help other people. 

[CreepyPanda]

It is written: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me," and again: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

 

Say what you will about christianity or capitalism, but the view that it is christian to lobby for unfettered greed is obviously and patently false.

A good reinforcement of my point - though this passage definitely refers more to spiritual than physical realities.

[Is there a problem?]

I'm absolutely willing to sacrifice. I'm not attached to money (that said, I don't have any). I know it's the middle class (the majority in first world societies) that puts the most strain on the economy, but billionaires are not blameless. War is another issue that I could harp on about (proud pacifist). It's not just inside our countries that we have economic responsibility - we need to change the economies of first world countries so that money can go to places like Africa and the Middle East who have REAL problems (first world poverty is luxury compared to actual poverty), but I think that the first step to solving these problems in an efficient way (if it was going to be easy, it would already be done) is sorting out our own situations, at least to an extent, which would mean equalising wealth (not completely, but right now we have the 1% vs the 99% and that isn't acceptable in my eyes).

you say you cant even aford to take your cat to the vet or even get new appliances. how would you sacrifice more? kill the cat and feed it to the homeless?

[CreepyPanda]

you say you cant even aford to take your cat to the vet or even get new appliances. how would you sacrifice more? kill the cat and feed it to the homeless?

I said I am willing - and, realistically, able. I am underage, I don't run my household, if I did, there would certainly be costs that could be cut. Not easily, but they could be. The challenge would be cutting those costs for other people, and not for yourself. Though, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I couldn't sell all of my possessions, not yet anyway - maybe one day I will reach a level of spiritual maturity that will get me closer to that.

[Wasta]

In the same way that I said that poor people aren't lazy, I need to also say, as it is TRUTH, that rich people aren't greedy. But, like the percentage of poor people that ARE lazy, there is a percentage of rich people who ARE greedy - and, of course, one greedy rich person is more of a liability than one lazy poor person. Of course, it's a hypothetical liability; rich people coveting wealthy doesn't CAUSE poverty, it's not a proactive evil, but it's certainly a passive evil.

 

.It isn't outrageous. So many people who are wealthy, in fact I would say MOST of them, have got to the position they are in through hard work, and intelligence and suffering and perseverance. That said, read the parable of The Widow's Offering. That parable isn't even necessarily about money, but it's certainly applicable (in a less dramatic way than it is applicable to spiritual reality).

 

This isn't just a religious thing. My beliefs are certainly a factor in my viewpoint, but I believe it is a moral responsibility for all people. regardless of faith, to help other people. 

Neither rich nor poor people are liabilities in any sense of the word. They are natural. They exist because the theory of basic economics demands that they exist. 

 

I don't know if this is a cultural difference because you're from Australia and I'm from America but there exist people in my country who are on food stamps and have iPhones. People should live within their means, rich or poor, which means extravagance is unnecessary and wasting precious money an the next best technology is unnecessary. Many poor are just as consumerist as the rich, they just don't have the money to fulfill their wishes. So either the mindset of our consumerist society collectively changes or we facilitate the means to a better education. Rather than the government using tax dollars to give handouts, I want to see this money spent on programs that give people of all economic backgrounds the opportunity to develop valuable skills to use in the workforce. 

 

I've read the Widow's Offering. And if we're going to talk non-monetary charity for a moment, shouldn't we respect those who offer timeless hours towards caring for the ill, designing the bridges that allows you to drive to work, and defending those in court who no one else will stand for? Let's not try to give a qualitative analysis on what a person should give when people are capable of giving so much more than money. 

[CreepyPanda]

Neither rich nor poor people are liabilities in any sense of the word. They are natural. They exist because the theory of basic economics demands that they exist. 

 

I don't know if this is a cultural difference because you're from Australia and I'm from America but there exist people in my country who are on food stamps and have iPhones. People should live within their means, rich or poor, which means extravagance is unnecessary and wasting precious money an the next best technology is unnecessary. Many poor are just as consumerist as the rich, they just don't have the money to fulfill their wishes. So either the mindset of our consumerist society collectively changes or we facilitate the means to a better education. Rather than the government using tax dollars to give handouts, I want to see this money spent on programs that give people of all economic backgrounds the opportunity to develop valuable skills to use in the workforce. 

 

I've read the Widow's Offering. And if we're going to talk non-monetary charity for a moment, shouldn't we respect those who offer timeless hours towards caring for the ill, designing the bridges that allows you to drive to work, and defending those in court who no one else will stand for? Let's not try to give a qualitative analysis on what a person should give when people are capable of giving so much more than money. 

Education is important, but education costs money. It's very circular in this regard - and as you point out, financial irresponsibility is present in the poor as well as the rich. Consumerism is an issue that needs to be addressed, but by maintaining our toxic capitalist society, that will never happen. The last point you make is also important (a perfect example of Parable of the Talents), but it's of no more nor less importance than to give people economic and financial opportunities, as it is an unfortunate reality that money makes the world go round.

 

This point stands out to me

 

 I want to see this money spent on programs that give people of all economic backgrounds the opportunity to develop valuable skills to use in the workforce. 

 

When I say more money should go to the poor, I don't mean that all of it has to go directly to them - infrastructure is just as, if not more important than direct monetary handouts - not everything can be bought, some things need to be accessed by different means, these things need to be provided to people as well.