A question for idol fans

[DocumentaLy]

So this post spawned a now 3 page conversation on JPS and I wanted to bring it here and see what people thought:

 

Deleted cause I don't really care/was feigning interest  ninja.gif

 

However, talking to an idol fan and he suggests that

 

"This exponential growth in 'alt-idols' has really killed off the alt-idols that I once loved/has made it become the norm. Just look at the recent MCZ singles".

 

What do all the idol fans think of this? Is he right?

 

I personally haven't been following MCZ for a while- but I remember Gounn being the last thing that was really impressive by them. It's like this massive expansion of idols incorporating alternative genres has put out their fire though, listening to the latest stuff on youtube.

 

It is also very true that at least half of the new discoveries I made this year in the Japanese music scene were in the idol sphere of things. I originally had put that down to me just starting to dip my toe into the scene a bit more this year- but perhaps he's right- that more and more of these groups ARE looking towards traditionally alternative genres of music- and this has exploded since the dawn of BABYMETAL's success.

 

I mean, who woulda dreamt that back in the Midori days Hajimetal woulda ever been working on things like LADYBABY?

 

And where does this leave these alt idol groups in the longterm? How hard will it be to make a lasting impact if everyone is doing it?

 

Better than a 1000 AKB clones I guess.

 

I don't really know what I'm trying to get at, it's just an interesting thought. 

[Libidinosa]

You fail to interest me.

[DocumentaLy]

You fail to interest me.

 

This isn't about KPop.

[Libidinosa]

This isn't about KPop.

 

Hail Satan.

[Joga]

I think that its better that more groups are trying to find their own style?

 

But its really a niche within a niche, sooo whatever they can do to milk a bit of money, they should try. But alt-idols wont last in the long run.

[SeeYaWithYou]

At least Alt-Idols release diverse music. And i wouldn't really consider MCZ alt-idols anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

[eyeless]

Momoclo is confused, they already achieve all that they want and now they don't know where to go. IMO it got nothing to do with the growth of alt-idol.

 

For me, the term alternative idol is started from BiS, and their spin offs now leading this genre. Momoclo is on other section with Dempagumi, Ebichu, etc, representing Japanese subculture denpa

[Coffee Biscuit]

Isn't this the same with everything else?

 

One system find success, others try to replicate, for those who're aware of the strain on resources might choose to tackle an experimental alternate route

 

Kinda like how a lot of mmorpg tried to replicate WoW, then start to diversify later.

 

 

Oh yeah, props to the first person that puts pineapples on pizza, great alternative that turn into mainstream

[MoreTokyo]

Jun Togawa challenged the notions and boundaries attached to being an idol. She's had a lasting influence on the development of Brand New Idol Society (BiS), 5572320, Period of Plastic 2 Mercy, You'll Melt More, Bellring Girls Heart, Necronomidol, and many others. Narasaki (Coaltar of Deepers), Jojo Hiroshige (Hijokaidan), Hiroyuki Hayashi (Polysics), Yasuharu Konishi (Pizzicato Five),Romantic Productions, Tofubeats, Okadada, Fragment, Connie, and Schtein and Longer also had a hand in the uprising of idol groups taking on varying sounds. Idols have been releasing much more unique, diverse, and challenging music that differs from each other. It isn't too hard to find groups that are incorporated different sounds from within the independent community. For instance, Brand New Idol Society and Bellring Girls Heart have released different material throughout their careers but are both often attached to the alt-idol label. Momoiro Clover Z's current situation doesn't have much in relation to the rise of Koutai Camera Girl, Brand New Idol Shit, or 3776.

[Mr. Taxi]

At least Alt-Idols release diverse music. And i wouldn't really consider MCZ alt-idols anymore.

 

 

Is MCZ Momoiro Clover Z?

[DocumentaLy]

 

Is MCZ Momoiro Clover Z?

 

 

Yes.

[Obelisk]

I've read it about twice times, I still don't get what it says. I guess my english isn't good enough, but I will just say what I think of j-idols.

I don't understand what is "alt-idols" and how they are different from regular idols, but I know most of idol groups starts with no concept, (more accurately without nothing) so they attempt to find what the best for them, improve and find the best concept for them, this is what leads to diversity in j-idol scene.
I am probably one of the rare people who think that Japanese girl groups are much better than Korean. Japan provides much more diversity with an idol groups, when korea debuted another girl group, that no different from other. WAIT... Isn't Japan has lots groups that aren't different from other? When it comes to j-idol girl groups, theory of evolution will be accurate here, when the strongest survive. Alot of girl groups trying to find their own tactics to survive in the industry, wich leads to bigger diversity.

As much as I'm huge JFS fan, girl groups is the second thing that attract me the most.

About MCZ, I think for every group or singer, when they reach to the top they just can't develop themself anymore, when they alredy reached the max.
This is a good explanation:

Momoclo is confused, they already achieve all that they want and now they don't know where to go.

 

 

 

Better than a 1000 AKB clones I guess.

Why do people think there lots of akb48 clones, when all sister groups you can count on a finger?

(1) AKB48
(2) NMB48
(3) SKE48
(4) HKT48
(5) Nogizaka46
(6) JKT48
(7) SNH48
(8) SDN48

If there some other sister group, I don't think it should be even counted.

 

[DocumentaLy]

 

I've read it about twice times, I still don't get what it says. I guess my english isn't good enough, but I will just say what I think of j-idols.

 

I don't understand what is "alt-idols" and how they are different from regular idols, but I know most of idol groups starts with no concept, (more accurately without nothing) so they attempt to find what the best for them, improve and find the best concept for them, this is what leads to diversity in j-idol scene.

I am probably one of the rare people who think that Japanese girl groups are much better than Korean. Japan provides much more diversity with an idol groups, when korea debuted another girl group, that no different from other. WAIT... Isn't Japan has lots groups that aren't different from other? When it comes to j-idol girl groups, theory of evolution will be accurate here, when the strongest survive. Alot of girl groups trying to find their own tactics to survive in the industry, wich leads to bigger diversity.

 

As much as I'm huge JFS fan, girl groups is the second thing that attract me the most.

 

About MCZ, I think for every group or singer, when they reach to the top they just can't develop themself anymore, when they alredy reached the max.

This is a good explanation:

 

 

 

Why do people think there lots of akb48 clones, when all sister groups you can count on a finger?

 

(1) AKB48

(2) NMB48

(3) SKE48

(4) HKT48

(5) Nogizaka46

(6) JKT48

(7) SNH48

(8) SDN48

 

If there some other sister group, I don't think it should be even counted.

 

 

 

 

 

AKB clones are basically any cutesey girl group.

 

And if you want to know what an alt-idol is, look at who MoreTokyo mentions.

[Coffee Biscuit]

AKB clones are basically any cutesey girl group.

 

And if you want to know what an alt-idol is, look at who MoreTokyo mentions.

 

The way you put that sounded like AKB48 invented cutesy girl group.

I thought it would've been others before them.

 

Or did you call it AKB clones because AKB is the reason behind the sudden rise in creation of cutesy girl groups? As they found great success, which leads to others trying to replicate it's success by creating cutesy girl group and started the whole "warring state of idols" era, which many similar to yourself seem to loathe.

 

 

Though many argues what really started the whole warring state of idols is actually the release of River, a not very cutesy single. And their first million seller was Beginner, again, a not very cutesy single....

 

I think I just figure out why so many failed to find major success because they went for cutesy concept... They were looking at the wrong things.

[DocumentaLy]

The way you put that sounded like AKB48 invented cutesy girl group.

I thought it would've been others before them.

 

Or did you call it AKB clones because AKB is the reason behind the sudden rise in creation of cutesy girl groups? As they found great success, which leads to others trying to replicate it's success by creating cutesy girl group and started the whole "warring state of idols" era, which many similar to yourself seem to loathe.

 

 

Though many argues what really started the whole warring state of idols is actually the release of River, a not very cutesy single. And their first million seller was Beginner, again, a not very cutesy single....

 

I think I just figure out why so many failed to find major success because they went for cutesy concept... They were looking at the wrong things.

 

This. In the end, they are a cutesy group.

[Obelisk]

The way you put that sounded like AKB48 invented cutesy girl group.

I thought it would've been others before them.

 

Or did you call it AKB clones because AKB is the reason behind the sudden rise in creation of cutesy girl groups? As they found great success, which leads to others trying to replicate it's success by creating cutesy girl group and started the whole "warring state of idols" era, which many similar to yourself seem to loathe.

 

 

Though many argues what really started the whole warring state of idols is actually the release of River, a not very cutesy single. And their first million seller was Beginner, again, a not very cutesy single....

 

I think I just figure out why so many failed to find major success because they went for cutesy concept... They were looking at the wrong things.

I actually made a thread about akb48 and its cuteness.

[SeeYaWithYou]

AKB clones are basically any cutesey girl group.

More like any group that has a massive amount of members and/or groups that split into teams. Also groups that only have certain members participate in a-sides, but you could also make the argument they are copying Onyanko Club (but lbr AKB made this concept popular in the modern age)

Groups like P.IDL, LinQ, Bakusute Sotokanda Icchome, X21, Alice no. 10, E-Girls, and so many more...

 

But yeah there is a huge number of AKB clones as well as cutesy girl groups, which is what makes alt-idols so refreshing. I don't get the complaint about alt-idols being the norm, because they aren't. And it's not like all alt-idols tackle the same kind of music, the whole point is that they make diverse and more interesting music than the norm for idols.

 

The idol fan's comment in the OP is stupid as shit