Define extreme/over-the-top feminism

[sasha]

i consider myself feminist but i live in the place where feminism ain't intergrated in popular culture the way, i percept, it is say in US. and ain't nobody got time to follow social media dramas that happen half a globe away from you.

 

 

so here is my questions:

 

what is extreme/over-the-top feminism?

 

 

 

note: does poll make any sense? i did my best to explain my way in english but oh well

[sofi]

I would say that one of the examples of over the top feminism or faux feminism, is nitpicking over celebrities' lives and focusing too much on pop culture. I do not give a damn about singer x thoughts on feminism and I don't think that the public should be lacking basic critical thinking. In the same way I couldn't care less if y movie portrays "problematic" characters or relationships, shitty movies have always existed.

Social networks' "feminism" also ends up annoying me like 99% of the times.

 

Anyway it's not a thing in my country either, that's why I find anti-feminism posts so ridiculous. I find people who distance themselves form the movement just because of dumb tumblr posts, incredibly dense and sheep-like.

Every movement has their extremists and they don't represent it, it's like assuming that every left-winged person is a communist and right-winged one a fascist.

Also that's just the first example that popped into my head since it's 2am and I'm really sleepy lol sorry.

[*lesigh*]

What I define as over-the-top is anti-"oppressor" crap like this:

 

 

 

 

 

I just... *sigh*

[ErikaEGO]

What I define as over-the-top is anti-"oppressor" crap like this:

 

 

 

 

 

I just... *sigh*

I don't understand the slavery tumblr post ?

[nancy mcflurry]

Tumblr

[*lesigh*]

I don't understand the slavery tumblr post ?

 

They're saying white cis people can't get depressed. Like?

[ErikaEGO]

They're saying white cis people can't get depressed. Like?

Oh lmao sorry I was just trying to look for the feminism aspect

[*lesigh*]

Oh lmao sorry I was just trying to look for the feminism aspect

 

I think this can apply here too because lots of over-the-top feminists are also anti white, male, cis SJWs.

[양 지]

When they start bashing make artists for having naked/near naked women in their vids lol. I mean idk, I just think that if artists want to sexualize their vids then they have that right as it it their music. Sometimes it's not even about objectifying woman, it's just about talking about u know...sex and stuff lol. It's cool. It's natural. While the music industry does have sexism and maybe this is all part of a big pic of sexism, it'd be unfair to bash on artists just for enjoying their creative freedom. Also when they make it as if female provilage doesn't exist, it very much does lol.

 

Also omfg kinda OT but I wish certain feminists would stop taking the wage gap myth so seriously. The reason men are on average paid higher is because they choose tougher jobs and as many women start having kids and stuff, a lot of them choose to stay and home/work less hours/etc. lol. Tho that is changing, it's still a big norm in our society. In fact even cbs did a report on it (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/) and they are a left tilter lol.

[sasha]

What I define as over-the-top is anti-"oppressor" crap like this:

 

 

 

 

 

I just... *sigh*

ok i tried but i can't take seriously any of this, let alone be annoyed by it. it's just plain stupid. and not like popular-thing-stupid, but cherry-picking-internet-stupid.

[*lesigh*]

ok i tried but i can't take seriously any of this, let alone be annoyed by it. it's just plain stupid. and not like popular-thing-stupid, but cherry-picking-internet-stupid.

 

Are you reffering to my post or the posts I chose?

[sasha]

Are you reffering to my post or the posts I chose?

the posts you chose obviously

[*lesigh*]

the posts you chose obviously

 

Oh, OK.

 

So are you saying these posts are over-the-top or I'm just exaggerating and trying to make feminism look bad?

[sasha]

I would say that one of the examples of over the top feminism or faux feminism, is nitpicking over celebrities' lives and focusing too much on pop culture. I do not give a damn about singer x thoughts on feminism and I don't think that the public should be lacking basic critical thinking. In the same way I couldn't care less if y movie portrays "problematic" characters or relationships, shitty movies have always existed.

Social networks' "feminism" also ends up annoying me like 99% of the times.

 

Anyway it's not a thing in my country either, that's why I find anti-feminism posts so ridiculous. I find people who distance themselves form the movement just because of dumb tumblr posts, incredibly dense and sheep-like.

Every movement has their extremists and they don't represent it, it's like assuming that every left-winged person is a communist and right-winged one a fascist.

Also that's just the first example that popped into my head since it's 2am and I'm really sleepy lol sorry.

 

the reason it's kinda hard for me to define extreme feminism. it lacks manifestation. there are extreme spectrums of movements that have manifested themselves into political regimes or at least have political/ideological representations. but extreme feminism seems to come from places like twitter and tumblr. 

[sasha]

Oh, OK.

 

So are you saying these posts are over-the-top or I'm just exaggerating and trying to make feminism look bad?

 

i didn't ask you to represent feminism did i? so no, you didn't make it look bad. you gave me examples of over-the-top posts. but for me they seemed more like representation of internet stupidity than extreme feminism. but those posts are over-the-top indeed. so much that it's borderline stupid i didn't mean to offend

[sofi]

the reason it's kinda hard for me to define extreme feminism. it lacks manifestation. there are extreme spectrums of movements that have manifested themselves into political regimes or at least have political/ideological representations. but extreme feminism seems to come from places like twitter and tumblr. 

 

yeah I agree, it just seems like annoying noise on the internet, I've never heard of radical manifestations of feminism irl in my country, thinking about it, the refusal of accepting trans women as women is one of the extreme branches that could lead to violence and is generally harmful, I can't think of much else.

[*lesigh*]

i didn't ask you to represent feminism did i? so no, you didn't make it look bad. you gave me examples of over-the-top posts. but for me they seemed more like representation of internet stupidity than extreme feminism. but those posts are over-the-top indeed. so much that it's borderline stupid i didn't mean to offend

 

I see. You weren't being offensive, I just wasn't exactly sure what you were trying to say. Thanks for explaining.

[Hashman]

What I define as over-the-top is anti-"oppressor" crap like this:

 

 

how is this extreme or over the top?

 

 

do you think "I don't care about cis people's feelings" is meant to be taken literally? seems obvious that it's in the context of Leelah Alcorn and that this person's frustrated that cisgender people are bringing up their feelings when it's irrelevant to the issue

[Hashman]

When they start bashing make artists for having naked/near naked women in their vids lol. I mean idk, I just think that if artists want to sexualize their vids then they have that right as it it their music. Sometimes it's not even about objectifying woman, it's just about talking about u know...sex and stuff lol. It's cool. It's natural. While the music industry does have sexism and maybe this is all part of a big pic of sexism, it'd be unfair to bash on artists just for enjoying their creative freedom. Also when they make it as if female provilage doesn't exist, it very much does lol.

 

Also omfg kinda OT but I wish certain feminists would stop taking the wage gap myth so seriously. The reason men are on average paid higher is because they choose tougher jobs and as many women start having kids and stuff, a lot of them choose to stay and home/work less hours/etc. lol. Tho that is changing, it's still a big norm in our society. In fact even cbs did a report on it (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/) and they are a left tilter lol.

The first issue is about the fact that "sex" is equated with naked/scantily clad ladies being put on display. That's not what sex is. It makes a power imbalance between men who are usually fully clothed and not on display for anyone except who they want to show off to, and women whose bodies are being shown off to the men in the video and to other men.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

 

About the second issue, well either women are getting paid less for the same jobs, or women aren't getting as high-paid jobs as men. I don't see how that erases the issue. The fact that women are assumed to stay home and look after the kids is an arbitrary gender role and if there's any kind of pressure whatsoever for a woman to do that instead of working while her man goes and pursues a career (which there is) then there's a problem. Why do women choose jobs that aren't as high-paying? Do you think women are naturally/coincidentally attracted to jobs which don't pay as much? Or maybe women have been historically discouraged from setting their sights too high career-wise, lest it interfere with their assumed main role as housekeepers. The fact that it's changing should make it obvious that it's not just the natural way of things.

[양 지]

The first issue is about the fact that "sex" is equated with naked/scantily clad ladies being put on display. That's not what sex is. It makes a power imbalance between men who are usually fully clothed and not on display for anyone except who they want to show off to, and women whose bodies are being shown off to the men in the video and to other men.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

 

About the second issue, well either women are getting paid less for the same jobs, or women aren't getting as high-paid jobs as men. I don't see how that erases the issue. The fact that women are assumed to stay home and look after the kids is an arbitrary gender role and if there's any kind of pressure whatsoever for a woman to do that instead of working while her man goes and pursues a career (which there is) then there's a problem. Why do women choose jobs that aren't as high-paying? Do you think women are naturally/coincidentally attracted to jobs which don't pay as much? Or maybe women have been historically discouraged from setting their sights too high career-wise, lest it interfere with their assumed main role as housekeepers. The fact that it's changing should make it obvious that it's not just the natural way of things.

Yea but that should be blamed more on the industry then the artists themselves. And the second, one it doesn't erase the issue. But it's wrong to parade around a stat that has so many factors to it as if it's the holy truth. What we/they could do is put more emphasis on why women aren't getting high paying jobs and etc. (actually there are some factors there that aren't even gender related but a matter of convenience, and business logical but I don't wanna get there lol), By relying in a unthruthful stat like that, they are leaving a lot of gaps open.

[Hashman]

Yeah. Honestly sometimes it irks me when something's shown to be wrong or silly and no one admits it.

 

That frickin #yesallwomen thing for example. As an answer to #notallmen. I'm just nitpicking and this isn't really practical but #okayyourerightsorrybutallwomenthough would have been nice.

 

 

 

AAAAAANYWAY it depends on the artist. If you're someone like Jay Park who can do whatever the hell he wants (I assume) and you're like "yeaah I'll have some sexy ladies in there for people to look at" without thinking for a second about how much that's playing into a tired trope of women as sexy accessories, you're very dumb and deserve to be criticised. And if you do think about it and still do it all the time then you're kind of a dick and deserve to be criticised. Of course the industry as a whole has a problem but the industry is made up of individuals, if no one is held responsible for their actions then nothing will ever happen.