xXXXXXx 1,252 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 i read this article earlier and i thought it was interesting. a few things he points out i never really thought about, but are in fact true. if you get butthurt easiily, dont even bother 17 Cultural Reasons Why This European Never Wants to Live in America a little bit of his background if you care My name is Benny (Brendan) Lewis. I’m a 31 year old vegetarian from Cavan Ireland, I don’t drink, am not religious but am constantly full of wonder at all this incredible world has to offer through its many wonderful people. I’m also an entrepreneur and like to think of myself a “technomad†– a full-time technology-enabled globe-trotter. Fluent in 3 Months "Sorry if you find this post offensive, but I expect you to because…" 1. Americans are way too sensitive Sometimes I wonder if political correctness is in your constitution. I found out very quickly in my first visit that I had to bite my tongue pretty much all the time, and (more annoyingly) that nobody was ever straight with me. It seems that speaking your mind to individuals is a major taboo. You can’t tell a friend straight when he has fucked up, nobody will ever tell you that you look fat (oversensitivity with not telling obese people to get their act together is a major contributor in my opinion to why there are so many of them in the states), and there’s way too much euphemism to avoid the hard truth. To a certain extent, I can understand it – America generally does a great job of preventing people from singling out ethnic groups and toning down hate speech. But it waters it down far too much at the individual level. A lot of Americans I met feel very lonely, and I feel this is a major reason. You may never find a boy/girlfriend if a friend who knows you well and supposedly cares about you, doesn’t tell you the hard facts of what makes you so damn annoying… so that you can change it! Being insulting for the sake of it is needless aggression. But constructive criticism is what friends are for. The one time in my entire last three months that someone was straight with me was when my friend Karol Gajda gave me some tips to improve my presentation in future after I gave a TEDx talk, while everyone else was doing nothing but massaging my ego. It was really useful advice but it caught me off guard because I was used to months of… 2. Everything is “awesomeâ€! I really hate the word awesome. It used to mean “that which inspires aweâ€, but in the states it means nothing! It doesn’t even mean good - it’s just a word – a filler, like “um†or “y’knowâ€. This is the stereotypical American cheesy word, and I heard it until my ears started to bleed. Too many over-the-top positive adjectives like this get thrown around so much that they really mean nothing. And when you ask someone “How are you?†the answer will inevitably be “great!†even if they are far from it. When you start using excessive positivity it waters down the meaning, and those words become neutral. Then what do you do when you need to express true positivity? Of course, when someone says they are “OK, I guess†then you know things are pear shaped! I don’t think “bad†is in America’s vocabulary. But nothing beats America’s over-positivity more than this: 3. Smiles mean NOTHING When I meet Americans abroad, one of their biggest complaints are along the lines of “nobody smiles on Prague’s trams!†“That waitress was so rude to me! She didn’t even smile!†Goddamnit America – I have the opposite complaint for you. You guys smile way too much. It’s fucking annoying! How can you tell when someone means it? And why the hell would a stranger doing a crossword puzzle on public transport want to look giddy? When people smile in Europe it means something. For example, because Germans don’t go around looking like an American toothpaste commercial when I was with them and they smiled, it lit up the room – you know it’s genuine and you can’t help but smile back, because you are genuinely happy. You’ve shared a joke, or a funny story or you are in love etc. But all the time? When you smile all the time in public it means nothing. Apparently a smile releases endorphins, but if your face is stuck that way I’m sure your dreams of a natural high will fade soon. I’d rather focus on trying to make my life better and have reasons to smile than lie to myself and the world. Despite how surly I sound in this post, because complaining is the theme of the article, the fact that I vent when I mean it, means that when you see me happy you know I’m truly happy. And that is indeed a lot of the time But not all of it! 4. Tipping While it’s a perk for most of you, for me it was terribly annoying to be in restaurants and having a waitress interrupt me every 3 minutes asking me if everything is OK. I’d have to feign a smile and thumbs up to make her go away since my mouth was always full. I really don’t see the point – if you’ve given me the wrong order or if I suddenly realise I’m dying from an allergic reaction to your food, you’ll know it long before those 3 minutes are up. Eating out is always an annoying experience because of this. In the rest of the world we call the server over when we need something. If this was genuine interest, or if the person was trying to be friendly that would be cool, but that’s not what it’s about. In fact, it’s all down to “subtle†reminders that this person wants you to tip them. This drove me crazy – I really think tipping as a means of waitresses and others earning the vast majority of their living is ridiculous. If I have to pay, say 15% anyway, then include it in the bill! It’s not a bloody tip if it’s mandatory!!! Once again, one huge complaint I hear in other countries is how rude waitresses are, and Americans claim it’s because they aren’t tipped. Instead of getting tipped they earn a wage like everyone else, and do their job and if they do it bad enough they’ll get fired. But apparently not pestering you every minute and not smiling like you are in a Ms. World competition means you are “rudeâ€. I think the basic concept of tipping is nice – if someone does a top-notch job, sure, throw them an extra few cents or a dollar – but I just see it as a complex system of tax evasion for both restaurants and workers in the states. Some people ludicrously suggest that it makes it cheaper that the restaurant doesn’t have to charge more, but you’re paying the difference anyway. What it does contribute to is clear though: 5. False prices on everything Tipping is just the peak of the iceberg. It’s all one big marketing scam to make people feel like they are paying less. The price you see on a menu is nothing compared to what you’ll actually pay. Apart from tipping, you have to of course pay taxes. Now taxes are things that you simply have to pay on items you purchase – it’s how governments work all around the world. So why hide it from us? It boggles my mind that places refuse to include the tax in prices. The price they state is pretty much useless. It’s just saying “this is how much we get from what you pay, but you’ll actually pay moreâ€. I don’t give a flying toss how much YOU get, I want to know how much I have to pay! How much money… do you want me… to hand to you? Do I really have to spell this out? The most laughable of all of these is the “dollar storeâ€. We have this thing in Ireland called the €2 shop. You can walk in with a single €2 coin and walk out with something. If you have a single dollar, you will be turned away from a “dollar†store though. It’s a dollar… that they earn not that you pay. Do you follow? The only thing that matters is the business’s perspective. Airlines are the worst of all though. While in Europe some airlines are pretty bad with added fees, at least you’ll see them when it’s time to pay. The crazy thing for me flying in the states (since I have check-in luggage) was that I would pay… and then I’d pay again later. It’s nothing but a large scale marketing scam. Make the price seem cheaper, which is lying to people. One great way to get people in more debt is to make them feel like they are spending less, but add the rest when it comes time to hand over the cash. This is one big part of…. 6. Cheesy in-your-face marketing I feel like scraping out my eyes with toothpicks when I’m forced to endure advertising in America. Make it stop. Most Americans aren’t even aware of it – it’s on all the time so much that it becomes nothing more than background noise. And this means that advertisers have to be even louder to get through to people. It’s a vicious circle that drives any non-American not used to it bonkers. BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE! I decided to watch an episode of House one evening on TV. Up until then I had only really seen American shows online with advertising removed or back in Europe with European advertising inserted. Holy shit. Every few minutes you get torn out of the show and bombarded with irrelevant spam, and “awesome†images of people who practically experience orgasms as soon as they buy product X, that is (of course) on special offer just right now. And if it’s anything medical you get a super fast voice spur every kind of medical complaint you can imagine that his product will create as a side-effect. But at least the cheesy model is still happy, so it’s probably not so important. Some of my American blogger friends apply this to the online world and cover their site with flashing or aggressive banners, and a writing style that is psychologically very effective to make a sale, but damn is it annoying. One online pet-peeve of mine is email pop-up sign-up forms, which you can justify with marketing stats, as long as you ignore how much you piss off people you don’t “convertâ€. I’d recommend you install Randy‘s Stoppity plugin for Firefox or Chrome to turn those off. And here’s the thing: Americans are marketing geniuses. This can never be disputed. Every time I went to buy just a carton of milk, something about the supermarket that’s different to what I’m used to gravitated me towards some expensive garbage I didn’t need and I almost bought it, or did buy it, feeling very stupid as I walked out. If you are in Las Vegas you’ll see how skilled they are at this manipulation by how they design the casinos. No windows, no clocks, impossible to find exits, no way to get where you want to go without walking through slot machines, the slot machines themselves have lots of shiny lights and bouncy music to entice you. You feel like you are being hypnotised. They know exactly what they are doing and have the billions of dollars to prove it. But it’s still manipulation, and to those of us not used to the loudness it’s plain cheesy. Every corner of America is plastered with some kind of advertising or sponsorship, and I feel so at peace now that I’ve left. No more random phonecalls on any landline (including hotels I was paying for) with a recorded voice to try to pitch me something and no more spam promotional brochures taking over my physical mailbox. 7. Wasteful consumerism Some of the consumerism is difficult to avoid when you are flooded with advertising, but some of it really is entirely the person’s own fault for being so wasteful. The best example I can think of by far is Apple fanboyism. So many Americans waste so much cash to have the latest iteration of Apple’s iPhone, iPad, or Macbook. When you buy one that’s fine – I personally don’t like Apple products (I find the operating system too restrictive), but there are many good arguments for why it could be better. I also like to have a good smartphone and laptop for example, and I’m as much a consumer as you if you happen to have an Apple equivalent. The problem is when you replace your iPhone 4 with an iPhone 4S, and do it along with an army of millions of other sheep for no good reason. It’s pointless and wasteful consumerism at its best. I actually took advantage of this when I was in Austin this year. I waited until the day the iPad 2 was announced and as I predicted there were 20 new ads per minute on Craigslist in that city alone from desperate fanboys trying to sell their iPad 1. Since my laptop is so big (I consider it a portable desktop), it was worth my while to invest in a tablet and I convinced one idiot to sell me his with a bluetooth keyboard case for $250. (I’ve written a few blog posts on it in cafés so it was worth my investment) He was so desperate to have the latest version that was ever so slightly thinner and faster, and with a camera that makes you look like an idiot when you point your iPad at something, but otherwise basically exactly the same. Personally I only replace my smartphone when I break the other one from travel stress or dropping it in an ocean etc. I’m also a consumer though, and will occasionally buy stuff that I don’t need, but replacing something I have for something marginally better for a large price is something I can never understand. What makes it worse is that these people sometimes claim to not have much money and Apple products are added to their “necessities†list. The gobshite I bought my iPad from sighed when I told him what I do, and he said that he wished he had the money to travel. I wish he had the common sense to realise that if he stopped wasting his money he’d have plenty left over. 8. Idiotic American stereotypes of other countries Many of us have seen videos online of Americans arsing up basic questions of international geography. I went out of my way to avoid people that stupid – my beef is with the supposedly educated ones. Luckily, Americans you meet abroad tend to be much cleverer, but meeting those who haven’t travelled made my head hurt with the amount of facepalms I’d have to do. Now, I know there are 300 million of you, but I have had this exact same conversation on both the east and west coast, and in the mid-west and south: “Hi, I’m Benny†“Awesome! I’m X. Where are you from?†“Ireland†“Wow! You guys certainly know how to drink!†“Actually, “Oh, you’re not really Irish then, are you!†Again, and again and again… and again. The same idiotic script – I knew it was coming every time. They demanded to see my passport, said that I’m the only Irish guy they’ve ever met who doesn’t drink (and very stupidly then admitted that I was the ONLY Irish guy they ever met!!) or had visited Ireland and spent all their time in Temple Bar (not even leaving Dublin), confirming that all Irish people are drunkards. This is just one of the many idiotic things they would say, which of course annoyed me the most. A few others I’ve gotten include: How was the boat ride over here? [surprised that we have airports in Ireland - I must have arrived in rags in New York harbour of course] Too many people insisting that Ireland was part of the UK. They actually argued it with me!! Did I have to check my car for IRA bombs when I was growing up? (there were so many things wrong with this) Surprised that I knew more about technology than they did. Aren’t we all potato farmers in Ireland? Whenever someone said anything about Ireland I’d always try to change the subject immediately or they’d quickly find out how blunt I can be. Edit: If you think this is hypocritical, I’d argue that this post is NOT filled with stereotypes because it’s based on my actual experience in hanging out with thousands of you. Americans who stereotype us Irish (and other nationalities) have generally never been there, or at best “seen†(not spent time with) a couple of tourists. Stereotyping is based on hearsay and misinformation, and almost always from total lack of contact, or only superficial contact with the people you stereotype. I’m not talking about Americans being all loud and war mongers and only eating at McDonald’s and all being stupid etc. (typical American stereotypes), because these just aren’t true for many people. I’m talking about what I’ve actually experienced from normal people in every day situations after an entire year of living and working in America. 9. Heritage Every American you meet is not actually American. They are a fourth Polish, 3/17 Italian, ten other random countries, and then of course half Irish. Since Ireland is more homogenous, it’s hard for me to appreciate this, so honestly I don’t really care if your great grandfather’s dog walker’s best friend’s roommate was Irish. I really don’t. The amount of “Oh my gaaawwwd, me too!!†retorts I heard when I said I was Irish is quite silly. I use country adjectives more restrictively than Americans do, so this was quite the pet peeve of mine. I finally learned that “I’m from Ireland†means what I wanted to say to them better than “I’m Irish†does. I don’t want to say I don’t respect people’s rich heritage (a nice mixture makes a country more interesting; the melting pot of cultures and skin colours is one reason why Brazil is my favourite country for example), but when people start talking about it as if it were genetics and their Italian part makes them more passionate and their Irish part makes them good drinkers I really do have to roll my eyes. Edit: Commenters keep pointing out that it’s a language difference, so “Irish†actually means “Irish American†as I’d understand it. That’s fine, but I’m trying to convey that foreigners find this annoying. There is no right or wrong, but it’s important to realise that rephrasing it or saying “I have Irish/Italian heritage†may be more appropriate if you are talking to someone from that country. This is especially true if speaking other languages. 10. ID checks & stupid drinking laws Seriously, I promise I’m not 12. Please let me into the nightclub! I’ve even seen 60 year olds get IDed. Nowhere else in the world do they ID me now that I’m clearly in my late 20s. A few times I haven’t had my passport (the most important document I own that I really don’t want to get beer spilled over) in my jeans pocket and have simply been refused entry. I find it incredible that drinking age is 21, but you give 16 year olds licenses to drive cars and you can buy a rifle at age 18. And you can’t walk around outside with an open drink in most states (but apparently putting it in a brown bag while you drink it makes it OK). I don’t even drink, and I find these laws nonsensical. 11. Religious Americans Look – I grew up in a religious town in Ireland, went to an all boys Catholic school, and some of my friends in Europe are religious. Even if I’m not religious myself, it’s up to everyone to decide what they believe in. I find religious people in Europe to be NORMAL – it’s a spiritual thing, or something they tend to keep to themselves, and are very modern people with a great balance of religion and modernism. But I can’t stand certain Christian affiliations of religious Americans. It’s Jesus this and Jesus that all the bloody time. You really can’t have a normal conversation with them. It’s in your face religion, and they replace hard science with scripture in the classroom. They really need to tone it down. 12. Corporations win all the time, not small businesses While there are many arguments against everything working towards there simply being a bunch of large corporations competing with one another, my biggest problem is in terms of availability. When you get your food from Walmart or Wholefoods, and nowhere else, these places grow and will be separated by a reasonable driving distance for greatest scope. But between them? It’s a wasteland. I was in downtown Chicago one day and wanted to simply get a bite to eat, but after walking around for an hour the only affordable option I could find was Dunkin Donuts. There are plenty of excellent cheap places to eat in Chicago, but you need to drive to them, or be in a specific part of the city with lots of restaurants. There’s too much competition between the big guys for a large number of little guys to sprinkle themselves conveniently throughout cities. If you plonk me in any major city in Europe, I’ll find food in minutes. If you do the same in America, even downtown and presuming it isn’t a specific restaurant district, and don’t give me a cell phone or a car, I could starve to death. And this is a major contributor to what I feel is one of the biggest problems in America: 13. A country designed for cars, not humans One of my biggest issues in the states has been how terrible a place it is for pedestrians. It’s the worst place in the entire world to live in if you don’t own a car. On previous trips to the states I’ve had it rough – relying on sub-par public transport (which is at least workable in certain major cities, but almost never first world standard in my opinion), or relying on a friend the entire time. You can’t do anything without a car in most cases. With rare exceptions (like San Francisco), all shops, affordable restaurants, supermarkets, electronics etc. are miles away. You rarely have corner shops (and if you do they are way more expensive than supermarkets). I find it laughable that Austin is rated as among the most “walkable†cities in the states. Living just outside the centre, but within walking distance, meant that I had a stretch of my path with no pavement, and a little further out I had to walk on grass to get to a bus stop. What struck me as the most eerie thing of all is that I felt very much alone when walking in any American city. In many cases I’d be the only pedestrian in the entire block, even if it was in the middle of the week downtown! The country is really designed to get in your car, drive to your destination and get out there. No walk-abouts. Going for a walk to find food serendipitously (as I would in any European city) was a terrible idea every time without checking Yelp.com in advance. For this last trip, I did actually rent a car for most of my stay (I didn’t even have a driving license before this trip, which most Americans find hard to grasp), and everything was so much more convenient, but I really did feel like I was only ever using my feet to work the gas pedal, and I will not miss it at all. 14. Always in a hurry So many things in America are rushed far too much my liking. Fast food is something we have all around the world now (thanks America…) but even in a posh sit-down restaurant your food will usually come out in less than five minutes after ordering! There are also obsessions with get-rich-quick and lose-fat-quick schemes, pills that solve all your problems after a single swallow, people cutting to the chase in casual conversations far too quickly (after the customary empty “How are you? Great!â€) People don’t seem to have the patience to invest time to slowly improve things, unless it involves some kind of monetary investment. Americans are also very punctual, because of course time is money. So many of them could do with stopping to smell the roses, and arriving late because they took their time. Despite all the false positivity, I find Americans to be generally the most stressed out and unhappiest people on the planet. Despite all the resources, and all the money they have, they are sadder than people I know who can barely make ends meet in other countries, but still know how to live in the moment. This rush to the finish line, to have your book published, or to have a million dollars in your bank account or to get that promotion, and to have that consume your life is something I find really sad. 15. Obsession with money I met far too many people who were more interested in their bank balance than their quality of life. People richer than I can possibly imagine, who are depressed. More money seems to be the only way they understand of solving problems. They don’t travel because they think they need tens of thousands of dollars, and they don’t enjoy their day because they may miss out on a business opportunity. 16. Unhealthy portions Apart from people not being frank with those who are overweight, the biggest problem is that portions in restaurants are grossly overgenerous. Any time I ordered even a small portion I’d be totally full. Small means something completely different to me than it does to Americans. If you sit down in most places and order anything but an appetiser or a salad, you will eat more than you should. I was brought up being reminded of starving children in Africa, so I feel guilty if I don’t clear my plate. This has been disastrous over the last few months and I’ve put on weight because of it! I should have asked for a “doggy bag†nearly all the time. I’ve learned to stop ordering a soda entirely, because when places give you free refills, I feel like I should drink more… it’s free after all! Ugh. 17. Thinking America is the best Finally, one thing I find annoying is the warped view of America’s situation in the world. Americans ask me all the time if I’m scared to be travelling in South America. I found it way scarier to walk around certain parts of downtown San Francisco or Chicago at night than I did even in downtown Recife (apparently one of the most dangerous cities in South America) – because at least there are people there. And I find it pretty scary to be in a country where pretty much anyone can legally buy a revolver. I also keep hearing about America being the land of the free – it certainly was… 200 years ago. Most of western Europe is as free or more free, with opportunities for people at all levels. America is indeed a better place with a higher standard of living than most of the world, but free speech and tolerance for all is the norm in the western world as a rule, not just in America. There is no best country. But those who go on about how America is number one, tend to be those who have never travelled or lightly travelled. How about saying America is great or “awesomeâ€? I think patriotism is an excellent quality to have, and we should all be proud of where we were born. But nationalism (believing other countries are inferior) is a terrible quality. source <also has "What I Love About Americans" what do you think? agree, disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaco 53 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 all of this is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Ketchum 4,333 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 And Americans should give a shit because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penggwinsae 85 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 all of this is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongdae 459 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Read a few of them and I agree with a lot of what I read, especially tipping. EDIT: Okay, I went back to read through the whole list and #s 1-3 are already such odd points lol. And are some of these even limited only to America? -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXXXXXx 1,252 Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 And Americans should give a shit because? not asking you to give a shit, just asking opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmi 208 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Don't know much 'bout America but I love England ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grape Soda 12,004 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 And Americans should give a shit because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
â™” QUEEN â™” 1,280 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 i am proud of being an amurrrican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destined2bebossy 4,654 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 fine then, don't come back. We didn't ask you to come here. I'm sure there is a ton of shit i'd hate about where he is from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darling 1,107 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Uh I don't know. My dad's whined about a lot of those though lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokki the Awkward Potato 5,878 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Da fuq he mean we "smile to much" That's the crapiest reason to not like Americans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
â„„oser 1,185 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I'm European and I've spent almost half of my living years in the States, this article kinda gives you the idea that everything on the list can't be found in European countries which is completely NOT TRUE. One easy solution for this dude, you don't like America, don't live there! go back to your country and like your countrymen all you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Majesty Robosexual 446 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 all of this is true And Americans should give a shit because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrump 107 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Another case of Europeans not understanding how big US is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonflowers 574 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 ahhh, I could only get halfway through...this was so bitter. lol I'm an immigrant, not American yet, but an American hopeful? Maybe since I grew up here I've already been affected by the virus. But every country is different, and especially when you are coming from a different culture or different country the culture shock will get to you. This whole thing just sound really bitter and slightly xenophobic. Not a single thing he mentioned was that big of a deal. You live here and you get used to it. It's not really all that complex or leagues different from anywhere else. And this is coming from someone who has been in Europe, South America, and Africa... But I agree, Americans can be annoying sometimes, but does it make anyone better to always attempt to make someone else the butt of a joke when your own country also has it's issues? In Ireland Taxi drivers talk to you...like converse...intensely....that must be incredibly annoying for someone who hates when people smile at them on the street. lol Each country has their thing, that makes their culture...their culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightdreams 810 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Well in defense of number 5, states set up their own sales tax so nationwide companies would have a difficult time setting up one definite price including tax But yeah a lot of it is true, @14 now I have an excuse for my procrastination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsquinnbro 1,628 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Um, what's wrong with smiling at people? It makes me happy when people smile at me. Tiffany agree with the tipping though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHenchanted 4,704 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Another case of Europeans not understanding how big US is. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaraSiorai 525 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Why are people so mad? So he finds it annoying that you smile too much? Does it matter? No, not at all. and I'm sure he's aware of all the shitty things about Ireland. He's from Cavan of all places, no way does he have no complaints. Ask any Irish person and they'll tell you 20 things they hate about the country, no hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seulo 4,828 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Another case of Europeans not understanding how big US is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
____shawnee 4,118 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 LMAOOO there were some very valid points but also some really stupid ones. The smiling, the ID checks, the heritage, all of that bullcrap. I agree with most of it but he was just nitpicking at every tiny thing to make his list seem longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigManSam 244 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 That point about america being over-sensitive is really shining through in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolita 1,949 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 one of the responses were really good lol Oh, I can'tresist responding. Just for full disclosure- I'm a fairly well-travelledAmerican, so will offer some perspective from that angle. I also grew upreligious, conservative, gun-owning, all those lovely stereotypes. I'll get tothat later though. First off, Ilove how your first point (Americans are way too sensitive) makes for a reallyconvenient argument-device. Any and every American bothering to respond willautomatically get set up to be taken down by this accusation. Nice toautomatically set up your responders to ridicule! Like saying that"Americans respond to blog comments way too much," and then when theyprotest it, they are trapped. Well done, way to set up a 'neutral'conversation! Anyways, ratherthan counter with what bothers me about Europeans or others (like saying your'under' sensitive or something like that), I'll just say...lighten the hell up,dude! I've been working on farms in Europe (called WWOOFing, perhaps you'veheard of it) and it's gotten me out of the cities and in some 'real' country.Generally speaking, if you're going to go abroad, you should have a betterspirit for taking cultural differences in stride, maybe thinking not that the'others' are too sensitive, but rather going for some self-reflection andwondering if there are some positives to it. Ever thought that there arelegitimate reasons that in American society, we don't just blather out whateverwe think of another person's habits? For one, we have such a wide diversity,from early on in our history, so we were 'trained' in a way, to not be toocritical of someone else's way of doing things. And yes...Europe has suddenlyexploded with diversity, I'm just saying America was at it earlier, and it'shad a more profound effect on how people interact with each other. 2. Awesome. Asa clearly educated language-guy (which I am as well) you know full well it'sjust a part of the language change. I'm in Ireland currently, and in myexperience, people say 'lovely' more than I would, but I avoid being an analtwit and disliking the Irish for it, and instead, just accept that it's part oflanguage evolution. I've noticed in Ireland, at least the part I'm in, peopleask "how are you?" and the other just says "thanks, you?"with no response. That, as you may know, is common in many languages (I speakfluent Turkish, they do the same). And rather than make some igni'nt commentabout it, suggesting that Irish and Turkish cultures don't give a shit aboutthe answer, I'll just step back, be chill, and chalk it up to language differences.Try it sometime. 3. It is true-we smile more. Is that a terrible thing? Again, if you look at our history, itmakes sense. There were (and still are) often language difficulties here, longbefore Europe got its urrent immigrant populations. Smiles, whether they'recompletely genuine, or partial, or not at all, is a good non-verbal,non-language specific way to say "I've got friendly intentions withyou!" Sorry if our minor cultural differences caused you trouble...if it'sany help I've had the same! In Europe, some people have hugged me, kissedcheeks, etc., and in the States that is meant to suggest a lot more intimacy,here it means almost nothing! Rather than complain about it though, I try to bechill and appreciate that I am the one 'foreigner' there amongst thousands of'natives,' and try to be adaptable, rather than accuse all Europeans of showingfake 'mean-nothing' affection. 4. It's true-we rely a lot on tips. Back to a culture where you are paid based on how goodyou are at your job! I can give fast, good friendly service a 20%, typical 15%,bad 10%, or terrible, none at all. It keeps people from treating you like crap,neglecting you, etc. Just like my job at home (work on a farm) where I have tobe efficient and competent to get raises. System of merit, makes the Americaneconomy hum. You say that if they're bad, they'll get fired, but what's sowrong with a system that gives immediate, real time feedback? The restaurantowner doesn't have to worry, he knows that the bad ones will get 'corrected' byhis clientele, and the best ones will advance quickly and get rewarded? I doagree though- some, in the quest of tips, bug me too much while I eat, butsometimes I do want a water refill or something, so it works out. Not a bigdeal. 5. False prices-take American Government 101. We have something called ...fifty states. Everystate charges a different amount of tax on an item. For example, I am fromupstate New York (funny, you been there, right Benny?) and I must add 7% to myprices. But, I live right near the border to Vermont, and they are 5%. So, tolabel them tax-included is difficult here, because one single warehouse orproduction facility that labels a product, cannot always sort out which will besold in a Vermont store, or a New York, etc. It's annoying, yes, compared towalking in a European store where they've put the tax right in the price. But,an American may argue, they also prefer to know how much their state governmentis fleecing them, and want a 'line-by-line' for who got what. PS on that note,when we pay state taxes, separate from Federal, we can sometimes takedeductions or make adjustments based on state sales taxes that we've paid, sowe do in fact need the receipts (with the line-by-line listing out product costversus state taxes). Realise sometimes that there are legitimate reasons we dothings, rather than assume it's a mean-spirited marketing gimmick to trick ourignorant brains, lol. 6. Yes, Iagree, I hate the amount of marketing. But, it's part of the business culture,serious competition for all the potential buyers out there. And the phonecallsare annoying, too. It's all just a negative side-effect to a positive thing(the free market, business competition, etc.). 7. It's alwayscool to complain of American consumerism. Gotten lectured (unsolicitedlectures, by the way) from many Europeans about it. It's actually a globalphenomenon though, normally wherever there's enough money to afford it. I couldcomplain about Europe's obsession with summer homes- I've stayed in a part ofFrance, and a part of Ireland, both full of empty homes that are barelyinhabited for a few months each year. Apparently the money you guys save by notbeing fat American consumers, you use to buy, build and maintain second homes(complete with added expense of paying some locals to run lawnmowers on themand otherwise take care of the second property while you're gone.) I'm notintending to go tit-for-tat here on this, to say one system is better or worse.Point I'm making- everywhere in the world with extra money (i.e. money notneeded for necessities, like food, clothing, shelter) has its own way ofdisposing of the extra money. Europeans here seem to take many vacations, oftenvery long by American standards, and own second homes for it. We stay home andbuy more 'things'. While I agree- I'd rather be frugal and use the money totravel, I'm going to avoid value judgments about who is more wrong, orwhatever. And also appreciate that the second China, India and Africa have themiddle-class income that America and Europe have enjoyed, that they will do thevery same thing. Enough judgment, jeez! 8. Stereotypes-yes, they suck. Take notes. I have foundhere the same, but I take it in stride and appreciate that not everyone isblessed as I am to travel and learn otherwise. I've had many Europeans ask mestereotyping questions like "Do you guys all really own guns?" and"Do you own a big, gas-guzzling car?" and things like that. Iactually just get amused, I tell the truthful answer as best I know, and try tobe understanding. They've never been to my country, or been for only a shorttime, and they're trying to make conversation with what little they know. I'mnot going to call them ignorant, or be oversensitive (which is what you accuseus of, and yet you're doing it yourself by being so pissy about the Irishstereotypes). You should also be aware that many stereotypes are based on theimmigrant populations that came. I am in fact mostly Irish-American (beingcareful not to say 'Irish' for your oversensitive self!) but I know that mostof the Irish who came were very poor and desperate (Famine years, politicalstrife, etc.) and many in fact did drink. As did anybody at the time who was sopoor. I have another American friend, not of Irish decent, who makes jokesabout my drinking, and I joke back about his German ancestry. Sorry bro, but weare comfortable with our heritage, generally, and that generally means that wehave fun with the stereotypes. When a 'real' Irishman, or German, etc., comeshere, they can be put off by those stereotypes, not realizing the culturalcontext here. Go to YouTube, watch one of our comedians, Carlos Mencia, try tohave a laugh! I do agree, thestate of affairs in American education is such that we’re terrible at worldhistory, geography, etc. I’ve found the same here in Europe, people having noidea what I mean when I say I’m from New York state (Wow, what are you doingout here in the country??). State, not the city! You yourself have been to upstateNew York, you say, so you would know. But others don’t. Not a big deal. I don’texpect the world to know all about my country. 9. Heritage- Ikind of addressed that earlier. We are often aware of where our family camefrom, and reasonably proud of it. And when we tell you our “great grandfather’sdog walker’s best friend’s roommate was Irish,†it’s probably because we’retrying to be friendly and make conversation. Somebody tells me they’re fromGermany, I might say “Oh, one of my best friend’s family came from Germany!â€It’s American openness, friendliness. Or, at least an attempt to be. And becausewe’re comfortable with our heritage, we perhaps do go a bit far in attributingthings to it. That largely comes from growing up within the family, like myIrish-heritage father saying that I ‘got something from my mother’s side’ whenI do it more like my French-heritage mother. Just a part of the ‘melting pot,’sorry it bothers you! The languagepoints already made also address this issue. In American English now, we assumeyou’re American, we know that, so when someone says they’re Scottish, Italian,et cetera, it means in ‘American’ that it’s your heritage. 1 0. Yeah, it isstupid that 60-something get checked, but I’ve been checked even up to mymid-20s, and I don’t mind. You have to appreciate that the hard-working peopleat the bars, or liquor stores, et cetera, could get fired if they are found tosell to someone under-age. Stop b*#%ing and pull out the ID. It’s really kindof selfish to complain of that one. Stores lose their license to sell liquor ifthey’re ever caught not checking an ID for someone who even looks in their late20s. PS- I was inGalway, and witnessed an Irish bartender demanding IDs from ten Germans in abar, refusing to let some ‘slide’ for not having one. Not just an Americanthing! And I’m on the side of the bartender- I won’t risk giving alcohol to a17 year old just to be friendly with them, when I could lose my job. PPS- I do thinkthe drinking age should be lowered to 18, actually. Would make more sense. Iwas, in fact, driving by 15, but that can only be appreciated because ourcountry is so large, cars are necessary for anything (as you found out). Itexplains the difference in driving cultures, too. We need to drive more, andstarting earlier, even before the government allows us to drink. Makes sense ifyou stop with the critical complaining, and look at the reasoning behind thesethings. Also, playing devil’s advocate, maybe it is better to have a three yearperiod where I can drive and shoot guns, but not yet drink? Why should allthose things be concurrent? If not, perhaps an 18th birthday wouldbe celebrated by going out for my first drive, shooting my gun in the air,beers in the passenger seat? Just sayin’ 11. We had religiousfreedom before it was cool in Europe. Sorry, but that means that we’re morecomfortable talking about it, more comfortable trying to share how we believe.While Europe was still ‘guns-blazing’ on the whole religion thing, it became a taboo topic here (in Europe).Meanwhile, in the States, with the freedom to talk about it, we did exactlythat. Now Europe’s come around and has more freedom, the historical effect isstill there. And we also tended to attract the most vocal sects LARGELY becauseEurope’s response was to butcher anybody who disagreed. My heritage comes fromIrish Catholics, starved and killed out, French Protestants (Huegenots) forcedto leave their homes for Quebec, German ancestry forced to leave the Germanborderlands where there was constant violence between the groups. Sorry, butthe net result is that the States are now host to all the ‘problem’ groups thatEurope tried to solve by killing and exiling. So of course, when you come here,you find tons of religious people. It was Europe’s largest human export. Yeah, somepeople can get hard to talk to because they ONLY talk about religion, samecould be said of tiring people who talk only about, say, the weather, orsoccer, or …who knows what. It’s the price one pays for having been religiouslyfree since 1776. 1 2. Yeah, itsucks. We do what we can to slow it down, try to support smaller businesses.But many of us don’t have the money or luxury to, so we have to buy the bestprices, and that often means the big businesses, not the little ones. Economicreality- they have a good business model, can sell things to people for less. 13. Did youlook at a bleepin’ map when you were in the States? It’s a big country. Andgasoline is cheaper, because our government doesn’t tax the hell out of it likein Europe. And cars are easier to get, because there’s more of them, and again,we don’t have insane taxes added to the price (state taxes, yes, but notfederal-mandated ‘super-taxes’ like in France, designed to limit how manypeople own cars). I like to walk myself, but after a few weeks in the realworld here, needing to get to work, to get to the bank, the grocery store,school, etc., I simply need a car.And I can get one cheaply, and fill it with gasoline cheaply, and do it, notrelying on public transport. It’s neither good nor bad, it’s just different. InEurope, I love that I can hop on buses and get ‘almost’ anywhere, but thesystem is only there because the governments have made it so difficult to owncars, like Germany’s $2000 license fees. I guarantee if you guys had our gasprices (only one tax-cut away) and our car prices, it’d be the same. 14. True, werush too much sometimes. If I point out the positives (like we are one of themost productive workforces in the world, largest economy, etc.) I’m sure you’lljust counter that those are negatives (in relation to point 15. of yours). So,I agree, there are times we need to slow down. Times also where I thinkEuropeans could stand to speed up, which is all to suggest that people need tofigure out moderation in their life- work hard, work plenty, then learn torelax when you can. Nuance is unpleasant though, so I’m sure I’ll get Europeancommentators ripping me apart for my ‘time is money’ mentality. I’m ok withthat. 15. Trueenough. The opposite could be said of Europeans though, too obsessed with ‘thegood life,’ never actually doing that much. I’ve been frustrated at times here,working on farms, where they sit and take long-ass breaks, start late, endearly, and they wonder why they’re not making any money. And yes, the ‘m’ word.It’s bad to be over-obsessed with it, but industry, and work in moderation, aregood for the soul. Many Europeans would not last a week in an Americanbusiness, where you might have to put in 8 honest hours a day, 40 hours a week,for at least 11 months of the year. 16. True. 17. a) lots ofpeople may have guns, that makes it more likely that in a difficult situation,decent people will be armed. Europeans are so scared of this concept, but I’m sureit relates to their history. Well, our history is different, pointed out byother Americans here previously. You make buying guns illegal, well, that meansall law-abiding citizens will be unarmed, and the criminals will still disobeythe law, and be armed. Also has to do with the history of our government- beingarmed means that the government must respect its citizens. I find mostEuropeans way to worried or fearful of their governments, and powerless to stopthem if it ever came to force. b) We say ‘Landof the Free’ because when we first started, we were one of the very few thatwere. Yes, since then, Europe has become so as well. You’re welcome, by theway. American support for Irish independence, both governmental and privatecitizen’s, contributed to your freedom. Not to mention freeing France of Germancontrol (got significant British and French help on that one, not disrespectingtheir role), or freeing Germany of their dictator’s control, or Japan’s, etc.Or look at the Marshall Plan, when American money re-built Europe, enabling theprosperity that led to the EU. Many free, prosperous democracies of today oweat least partial thanks to the States. Not saying ‘we’re the best’ or that youneed to grovel about it, I’m just saying I find it so annoying when Europeansget snooty and stuck up about this. Yeah, now you’re free, now you’re on thebandwagon of “freedom and prosperity,†long after we achieved it on our own,and perhaps naively, helped the rest of you achieve it. I had bothgrandfathers, several great uncles, give years of their lives to lead to themodern countries of Japan, Italy, France, and Germany that are free today,often with citizens who bi*#% about us and high-handedly talk of how arrogantwe are. c) Sorry, butAmericans are proud of their country and rightly so. Europeans are afraid to beproud of their countries, or talk about it, because nationalism has so recentlyled to violence for them. And so, they’re even jittery about being ‘patriotic’because they equate it with nationalism. I agree, being downright negativeabout another country is bad. But being positive about yours, and unafraid toarticulate it, does not automatically equate to ‘being down’ on othercountries. For full andcomplete coverage, I will also address your ‘positives’ section. Seems onlyfair! “So wellconnected-†Thanks to our consumerist obsession with phones, computers, andthanks to the competition of our megabusinesses which make such devices cheapand available to wide sections of the population. That’s also thanks to thefact that American businesses are so productive that they can get those devicesmanufactured worldwide and distribute them efficiently (with our cheapgasoline) over a wide area. And another reason we’re well-connected, many of usbuy the newest device out there, creating a huge second-hand market for decentphones, iPads, et cetera. Comes full circle to you buying from that ‘idiot’ orwhatever you called him. If he hadn’t sold to you, it’d be someone else,leading to another person being well-connected with a decent phone. “Conferencesand Conventions†– “The right to free speech and assembly.†We thought it wascool in the 1700s, we’ve stuck with it since! “AmericanGirls†– Yes. I love American girls. “Many Friends,Countryside diversity†– i.e., you love the by-products of our great nation,like great people, great places to see, while you love to complain of all thethings that made us that way. Ever thought all the smiley, openly religious (oropenly not) religious, ‘fake,’ ‘oversensitive’ Americans actually are justgenuinely happy to live in a great country, aren’t afraid to talk about it,aren’t afraid to smile about it, and react negatively to people who down-talkthe very culture that enabled all of it? Anyways, funnyenough, I found this site searching for language-related information, so I lookforward to coming back for that. But seriously dude, for somebody who travelsso much, you should really think about the historical, societal reasons whysome place might be different from others, and rather than be so negative aboutit, just adjust. Despite some ‘jabs’ I’ve taken at Europe, it was largely toshow the flipside to your comments. I actually enjoy most of the differences,and just try to understand them from the other country’s perspective. PS- consideringyou have thousands of visitors, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised that youthrew up an article like this just to get massive Web traffic. Don’t know whatyour revenue stream is from, either advertisements, endorsements, orsubscriptions, et cetera, but I appreciate the irony that all this attentionhas probably created you some decent profits, going back to your complaints ofAmerican advertising, American obsessions with money, et cetera. I love irony.As the Irish here say though, ‘fair play!’ You’d make a halfway decentAmerican, I’d say! I know a gunseller if you’re looking. PPS- Yes,you’re welcome back! But I’d encourage you to open your mind a bit and considersome of the reasons why we are the way we are. A second trip, this time with adifferent attitude, might reveal a bit more to you. I love how we Westernerscan go to really exotic places and loosen up our minds a bit and adapt to atotally different culture, but we go to one that’s ultimately not all thatdifferent, and reserve the worst criticism for it. If, after a second time, youare still mostly negative and only some positive, I suggest you not come backfor a third time, we positive, smiley, oversensitive Americans might getdragged down by such a bum attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizza 519 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 i really dont see what's so bad about smiling a lot. and waiters live on tips dont they? they dont get an actual salary, what ever they make the night is their income Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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