Thebluecapricorn 182 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Since idol girl groups are the bad examples of Jpop, that keeps Kpop fans away from Jpop, is there 1 thing, that I wonder. Are Johnny groups also the bad examble of Jpop? A lot of Kpop fans says that the reason why they don't like Jpop is because the girl groups are too childish, but what about boybands? Because there are Kpop fangirls, who only or almost only likes boybands which I fell under (the last part) and there are a lot of Kpop fanboys who likes girl groups. So I wonder if the Johnnys' are the bad example of Jpop like AKB48 and yes, I know it's hard to find Jpop boybands on Youtube, but do you think they are bad examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
page6lovers 937 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I don't know about johnny but akb is a great representation of why jpop is is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midna 2,032 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 IDOLS are bad representatives of JPOP but for some odd reason everyone is fixated on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandilinn 7,814 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I wouldn't say they're bad examples of J-pop, but rather an example of J-Pop that knows what works for them and doesn't have to put in any effort outside of that because it continues to sell. There are Johnny's songs that are good. Great even. But the majority cater to the intended audience and don't stray far from that because that's what works for them. As an example, I will say Arashi's album last year had some interesting experimentation in it that I hope they continue with. The album as a whole fell short of my expectations, but I did like several of the tracks on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weregild 355 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 there's different genres of music that johnny's groups puts out. by saying johnny's you're implying they all release the same kind of bubble gum pop most kpop fans complain about. tokio releases are in no way the same as sexy zone ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebluecapricorn 182 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 there's different genres of music that johnny's groups puts out. by saying johnny's you're implying they all release the same kind of bubble gum pop most kpop fans complain about. tokio releases are in no way the same as sexy zone ones. I'm not implying their bubblegum stuff, I was more implying their more mature groups like Arashi, Kattun, Kinki Kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedove 1,849 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 there's different genres of music that johnny's groups puts out. by saying johnny's you're implying they all release the same kind of bubble gum pop most kpop fans complain about. tokio releases are in no way the same as sexy zone ones. Plus, Johnny's have band stuff like TOKIO who's a full band, while half of Kanjani8's releases since 2011 are band songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillapia 255 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 hmm I don't know, idol music is how I got into jpop in the first place. and once you're in, it's a lot easier to find other artists, so I think they're a great starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrow Air 29 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 "Since idol girl groups are the bad examples of Jpop" Interesting... Do elaborate on it please. How are idol girl group "bad examples" of Jpop? Also... What are good Jpop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebluecapricorn 182 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 "Since idol girl groups are the bad examples of Jpop" Interesting... Do elaborate on it please. How are idol girl group "bad examples" of Jpop? Also... What are good Jpop? A lot of people don't like cute groups and stick to Kpop because of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrow Air 29 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 A lot of people don't like cute groups and stick to Kpop because of them. So how are they bad? Isn't it just difference in taste? I mean, 2 of my best friends looked at me like I'm diseased when I mentioned "Taylor Swift is alright". Cuz they only listen to stuff like Red Hot Chilli Pepper, Breaking Benjamin and other rock/metal/band stuff. Similarly, I know a lot of people who dislike Kpop because for them it's all "booty shaking with looping music". Does that element making people not want to watch/listen to kpop mean Kpop girls are bad representation of Kpop? That is where I don't get the whole "bad/good music" thing. Not everyone share the same taste, and what some considered good, many consider bad, vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebluecapricorn 182 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 So how are they bad? Isn't it just difference in taste? I mean, 2 of my best friends looked at me like I'm diseased when I mentioned "Taylor Swift is alright". Cuz they only listen to stuff like Red Hot Chilli Pepper, Breaking Benjamin and other rock/metal/band stuff. Similarly, I know a lot of people who dislike Kpop because for them it's all "booty shaking with looping music". Does that element making people not want to watch/listen to kpop mean Kpop girls are bad representation of Kpop? That is where I don't get the whole "bad/good music" thing. Not everyone share the same taste, and what some considered good, many consider bad, vice versa. What I mean is that a lot of people thinks that Jpop is only cute because of them and therefore they don't give Jpop a chance. 2NE1, Bigbang, EXO are one of the first things, that come in mind when talked is about Kpop and they makes Kpop look less mistaken while Jpop does the opposite with their idol groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choa501 200 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Since idol girl groups are the bad examples of Jpop, that keeps Kpop fans away from Jpop, is there 1 thing, that I wonder. Are Johnny groups also the bad examble of Jpop? A lot of Kpop fans says that the reason why they don't like Jpop is because the girl groups are too childish, but what about boybands? Because there are Kpop fangirls, who only or almost only likes boybands which I fell under (the last part) and there are a lot of Kpop fanboys who likes girl groups. So I wonder if the Johnnys' are the bad example of Jpop like AKB48 and yes, I know it's hard to find Jpop boybands on Youtube, but do you think they are bad examples? I don't think there's a good or bad representation of J-Pop. What is wrong is to assume or pretend that Johnny's and AKB are the only idol groups in the industry; that they're all there is to Japanese music as a whole; or that their entire discography is full of dated or cutesy pop. As others mentioned, Johnny's can jump from one genre to the other and not all of them are exclusively pop groups. Also, if K-Pop and even J-Pop fans actually bothered to listen to their singles and albums instead of just their title tracks they would probably find themselves bopping to a lot of their songs; like if a K-Pop group were to cover Kisumai's Unmei Girl the Remix, HSJ's Forever or KAT-TUN's Ano Hi No You Ni I'm pretty sure they would be well received by K-Pop fans. Also, since you mentioned ggs I gotta say that I've never understood why some K-Pop fans use the J-Pop ggs are too cutesy excuse to explain their dislike for them because truthfully speaking K-Pop can be just as cutesy. Just look at A-Pink, Orange Caramel and Kara. Likewise, many are quick to dismiss AKB and say they're too slutty compared to K-Pop ggs that are ~sexy but classy~ but now that SNSD are coming out with a bikini MV K-Pop fans don't seem to think that women singing cutesy songs in a bikini is slutty or wrong. There's definitely a predisposition to dislike J-Pop and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedove 1,849 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Wait, are SNSD coming out with a bikini MV? For real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I don't think there's a good or bad representation of J-Pop. What is wrong is to assume or pretend that Johnny's and AKB are the only idol groups in the industry; that they're all there is to Japanese music as a whole; or that their entire discography is full of dated or cutesy pop. As others mentioned, Johnny's can jump from one genre to the other and not all of them are exclusively pop groups. Also, if K-Pop and even J-Pop fans actually bothered to listen to their singles and albums instead of just their title tracks they would probably find themselves bopping to a lot of their songs; like if a K-Pop group were to cover Kisumai's Unmei Girl the Remix, HSJ's Forever or KAT-TUN's Ano Hi No You Ni I'm pretty sure they would be well received by K-Pop fans. Also, since you mentioned ggs I gotta say that I've never understood why some K-Pop fans use the J-Pop ggs are too cutesy excuse to explain their dislike for them because truthfully speaking K-Pop can be just as cutesy. Just look at A-Pink, Orange Caramel and Kara. Likewise, many are quick to dismiss AKB and say they're too slutty compared to K-Pop ggs that are ~sexy but classy~ but now that SNSD are coming out with a bikini MV K-Pop fans don't seem to think that women singing cutesy songs in a bikini is slutty or wrong. There's definitely a predisposition to dislike J-Pop and vice versa. I have a problem with this statement. I don't have time to listen to some random act's B-sides and albums to find a song I like. The A-sides should be the good songs, just like with every other act I listen to. The A-side is the ad for the group; if I don't like the ad, I'm not going to get the product on some off chance that I may like it. Fans bring up B-sides and album tracks all the time and I really don't get it. I don't see fans of other acts bringing these songs of their faves up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misa 4,798 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Wait, are SNSD coming out with a bikini MV? For real? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEWER RAT 10,617 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The entire idol scene is trash, idk why this still needs to be pointed out after 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choa501 200 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Wait, are SNSD coming out with a bikini MV? For real? They're wearing bikinis in one shoot and it's so ironic considering the amount of times I've seen K-Pop fans slutshaming AKB for wearing bikinis or accusing them of being desperate and using their bodies to get the wotas' money but apparently you can't compare SNSD to them because they waited until they were mature to wear them and they're not trying to be sexual lol. I have a problem with this statement. I don't have time to listen to some random act's B-sides and albums to find a song I like. The A-sides should be the good songs, just like with every other act I listen to. The A-side is the ad for the group; if I don't like the ad, I'm not going to get the product on some off chance that I may like it. Fans bring up B-sides and album tracks all the time and I really don't get it. I don't see fans of other acts bringing these songs of their faves up. Then don't do it. No one is forcing you to but don't go around stating that AKB and Johnny's only release sugary pop when you haven't listened to the rest of their music. I personally don't care about music videos, concepts or promotions so I just get singles and albums and pick whatever songs I like from them. If I just based my opinion on lead singles then I would have never gotten Tsuyoshi's Tu or Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp a Butterfly and found myself loving the rest of the songs on those albums as much as I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusenkai 2,373 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 They're wearing bikinis in one shoot and it's so ironic considering the amount of times I've seen K-Pop fans slutshaming AKB for wearing bikinis or accusing them of being desperate and using their bodies to get the wotas' money but apparently you can't compare SNSD to them because they waited until they were mature to wear them and they're not trying to be sexual lol. Then don't do it. No one is forcing you to but don't go around stating that AKB and Johnny's only release sugary pop when you haven't listened to the rest of their music. I personally don't care about music videos, concepts or promotions so I just get singles and albums and pick whatever songs I like from them. If I just based my opinion on lead singles then I would have never gotten Tsuyoshi's Tu or Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp a Butterfly and found myself loving the rest of the songs on those albums as much as I did. I'll particularly second the feelings about Domoto Tsuyoshi's "TU" (though I still find that opening instrumental a tad obnoxious :P), which anyone who likes or is curious about Funk or Soul really should give a shot since it's a GOOD entry into that genre that mixes a bit of pop sensibility with the more traditional structures. It's the kind of thing I'd recommend to friends before I gave them Yamashita Tatsuro or Ginji Ito as a kind of introduction to what funk and soul can be, since it's a nice easing into that style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiinaMikan 41 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Then don't do it. No one is forcing you to but don't go around stating that AKB and Johnny's only release sugary pop when you haven't listened to the rest of their music. I personally don't care about music videos, concepts or promotions so I just get singles and albums and pick whatever songs I like from them. If I just based my opinion on lead singles then I would have never gotten Tsuyoshi's Tu or Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp a Butterfly and found myself loving the rest of the songs on those albums as much as I did. I think it's unrealistic to expect people to not characterize musicians based on their A-sides. People do not have the time to go through the discographies of all of the world's artists, so singles are needed to promote artists. Singles won't always exactly match an artist's musical style due to radio friendliness. But if someone mischaracterizes an artist due to their A-sides, it's the record label's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrobot 41 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 yes I was honestly surprised to see this finally happened. I know the recent years the older girl groups have been more upfront about sporting a swimsuit for their summer releases. I don't think there's a good or bad representation of J-Pop. What is wrong is to assume or pretend that Johnny's and AKB are the only idol groups in the industry; that they're all there is to Japanese music as a whole; or that their entire discography is full of dated or cutesy pop. As others mentioned, Johnny's can jump from one genre to the other and not all of them are exclusively pop groups. Also, if K-Pop and even J-Pop fans actually bothered to listen to their singles and albums instead of just their title tracks they would probably find themselves bopping to a lot of their songs; like if a K-Pop group were to cover Kisumai's Unmei Girl the Remix, HSJ's Forever or KAT-TUN's Ano Hi No You Ni I'm pretty sure they would be well received by K-Pop fans. Also, since you mentioned ggs I gotta say that I've never understood why some K-Pop fans use the J-Pop ggs are too cutesy excuse to explain their dislike for them because truthfully speaking K-Pop can be just as cutesy. Just look at A-Pink, Orange Caramel and Kara. Likewise, many are quick to dismiss AKB and say they're too slutty compared to K-Pop ggs that are ~sexy but classy~ but now that SNSD are coming out with a bikini MV K-Pop fans don't seem to think that women singing cutesy songs in a bikini is slutty or wrong. There's definitely a predisposition to dislike J-Pop and vice versa. I know there are girl groups who sell using innocence for K-Pop. But for J-Pop it is rare to see idols sport the black dress and red lipstick when they want to sell on sex appeal. Still, recent groups have changed my perception on that J-Idols remains the same when they could experiment with new themes if not at a slower and approachable pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrow Air 29 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 What I mean is that a lot of people thinks that Jpop is only cute because of them and therefore they don't give Jpop a chance. 2NE1, Bigbang, EXO are one of the first things, that come in mind when talked is about Kpop and they makes Kpop look less mistaken while Jpop does the opposite with their idol groups. 2 things wrong with this post. 1. Many people think Jpop is only cute because of them. 2. Idol groups. I guess I finally got this thing figured out... International fans that is I-fans only focus on idol. Because people think Idols is the only music acts that exists in Asia (And Idols above all else in I-fan's view) Let's summarise this For majority of teenagers international fans... we have ballad, we have rap, we have rock, we have everything in our own language. What do we not have? Idols. (Besides One Direction) Asian have idols, therefor that's the only thing that's worth checking out in Asian music scene. Am I right or am I right? Tell me I'm wrong... Then you better be able to point to at least a handful of international K-pop fans that can name more than 10 kpop song that is not idol related. In that respect, J-pop actually did better spreading the diversities in their music, because it's not just idol music that's heard outside of Japan, a lot of other genre of music from anime also heard around the world. (Lots of Rock from shounen title especially) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmroZqXImbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choa501 200 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'll particularly second the feelings about Domoto Tsuyoshi's "TU" (though I still find that opening instrumental a tad obnoxious :P), which anyone who likes or is curious about Funk or Soul really should give a shot since it's a GOOD entry into that genre that mixes a bit of pop sensibility with the more traditional structures. It's the kind of thing I'd recommend to friends before I gave them Yamashita Tatsuro or Ginji Ito as a kind of introduction to what funk and soul can be, since it's a nice easing into that style. Oh yes! I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it I think Tu can definitely be a sort of appetizer for anyone interested in digging deeper into Japanese funk. I honestly went to listen to this with no expectations whatsoever but I've replayed it so many times since I first got it that I think it'll end up making it to my list of favorite releases of the year. I think it's unrealistic to expect people to not characterize musicians based on their A-sides. People do not have the time to go through the discographies of all of the world's artists, so singles are needed to promote artists. Singles won't always exactly match an artist's musical style due to radio friendliness. But if someone mischaracterizes an artist due to their A-sides, it's the record label's fault. Again, I get that. All I'm saying is that it's tiresome to hear K-Pop and J-Pop fans always complaining about idols releasing nothing but cute songs when they actually do release other stuff. Artists' albums tend to stick to one concept and sound but that's not the case for idols. When I listen to Korean idols' EPs or albums I get an upbeat title track and lots of ballads and mid tempo R&B tracks as side tracks. The same thing happens with Japanese idols. if I get a cute song as title track I'll get EDM, funk, rock, etc. as side tracks. That's why I'm saying that if you're gonna listen to idols you gotta keep in mind that lead singles aren't in any way an indicative of what you'll get on an album and if you wanna complain about idols' music then at least do some research so you know what you're talking about. I know there are girl groups who sell using innocence for K-Pop. But for J-Pop it is rare to see idols sport the black dress and red lipstick when they want to sell on sex appeal. Still, recent groups have changed my perception on that J-Idols remains the same when they could experiment with new themes if not at a slower and approachable pace. Yeah. I get what you mean and it's a big contradiction since J-Pop idols are more likely to do gravure than K-Pop idols and they can also have lyrics that are much more upfront in their approach to sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 They're wearing bikinis in one shoot and it's so ironic considering the amount of times I've seen K-Pop fans slutshaming AKB for wearing bikinis or accusing them of being desperate and using their bodies to get the wotas' money but apparently you can't compare SNSD to them because they waited until they were mature to wear them and they're not trying to be sexual lol. Then don't do it. No one is forcing you to but don't go around stating that AKB and Johnny's only release sugary pop when you haven't listened to the rest of their music. I personally don't care about music videos, concepts or promotions so I just get singles and albums and pick whatever songs I like from them. If I just based my opinion on lead singles then I would have never gotten Tsuyoshi's Tu or Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp a Butterfly and found myself loving the rest of the songs on those albums as much as I did. But if that's all they release as singles, that's their fault. They made their bed, so now they must lie in it. And you're speaking from a point that is very idiosyncratic. I mean singles exist for a reason... I think it's unrealistic to expect people to not characterize musicians based on their A-sides. People do not have the time to go through the discographies of all of the world's artists, so singles are needed to promote artists. Singles won't always exactly match an artist's musical style due to radio friendliness. But if someone mischaracterizes an artist due to their A-sides, it's the record label's fault. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 2 things wrong with this post. 1. Many people think Jpop is only cute because of them. 2. Idol groups. I guess I finally got this thing figured out... International fans that is I-fans only focus on idol. Because people think Idols is the only music acts that exists in Asia (And Idols above all else in I-fan's view) Let's summarise this For majority of teenagers international fans... we have ballad, we have rap, we have rock, we have everything in our own language. What do we not have? Idols. (Besides One Direction) Asian have idols, therefor that's the only thing that's worth checking out in Asian music scene. Am I right or am I right? Tell me I'm wrong... Then you better be able to point to at least a handful of international K-pop fans that can name more than 10 kpop song that is not idol related. In that respect, J-pop actually did better spreading the diversities in their music, because it's not just idol music that's heard outside of Japan, a lot of other genre of music from anime also heard around the world. (Lots of Rock from shounen title especially) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmroZqXImbo This is basically it. But when you tell a KPop fan that they're not really here for the music or musical diversity, they'll get upset and try to prove otherwise and fail. One problem I've always had with the Korean music industry is the focus on idols and the lack of development as far as other genres go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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