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• • • IMF: Austerity Measures Would Still Leave Greece With Unsustainable Debt • • • Where Have Previous Loans Gone? • • •


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6 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Greece will manage to pull out from the Euro?

    • Yes. Nothing can resolve the many years of damage
    • No. European Governments are putting too much pressure
  2. 2. Would you like to see Greece pull away from the Euro?

    • Yes, so other European countries can follow the example
    • No, it's too dangerous and damaging for Europe


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IMF: austerity measures would still leave Greece with unsustainable debt

Secret documents show creditors’ baseline estimate puts debt at 118% of GDP in 2030, even if it signs up to all tax and spending reforms demanded by troika

By Alberto Nardelli

Date: 30th June 2015

Source: The Guardian

 

Greece would face an unsustainable level of debt by 2030 even if it signs up to the full package of tax and spending reforms demanded of it, according to unpublished documents compiled by its three main creditors.

 

The documents, drawn up by the so-called troika of lenders, support Greece’s argument that it needs substantial debt relief for a lasting economic recovery. They show that, even after 15 years of sustained strong growth, the country would face a level of debt that the International Monetary Fund deems unsustainable.

 

The documents show that the IMF’s baseline estimate – the most likely outcome – is that Greece’s debt would still be 118% of GDP in 2030, even if it signs up to the package of tax and spending reforms demanded. That is well above the 110% the IMF regards as sustainable given Greece’s debt profile, a level set in 2012. The country’s debt level is currently 175% and likely to go higher because of its recent slide back into recession.

 

The documents admit that under the baseline scenario “significant concessions†are necessary to improve Greece’s chances of ridding itself permanently of its debt financing woes.

 

Even under the best case scenario, which includes growth of 4% a year for the next five years, Greece’s debt levels will drop to only 124%, by 2022. The best case also anticipates €15bn (£10bn) in proceeds from privatisations, five times the estimate in the most likely scenario.

 

But under all the scenarios, which all assume a third bailout programme, looked at by the troika – the European commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF – Greece has no chance of meeting the target of reducing its debt to “well below 110% of GDP by 2022†set by the Eurogroup of finance ministers in November 2012.

 

In the creditors own words: “It is clear that the policy slippages and uncertainties of the last months have made the achievement of the 2012 targets impossible under any scenarioâ€.

 

These projections are from the report Preliminary Debt Sustainability Analysis for Greece, one of six documents that are part of the full set of materials that comprise the “final†proposal sent to Greece by its creditors last Friday....

 

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How I Would Vote In The Greek Referendum

Neither alternative – approval or rejection of the troika’s terms – will be easy, and both carry huge risks

By Joseph Stiglitz

Date: 29th June 2015

Source: The Guardian

 

.... In terms of transforming a large primary deficit into a surplus, few countries have accomplished anything like what the Greeks have achieved in the last five years. And, though the cost in terms of human suffering has been extremely high, the Greek government’s recent proposals went a long way toward meeting its creditors’ demands.

 

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official†creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece.

 

But, again, it’s not about the money. It’s about using “deadlines†to force Greece to knuckle under, and to accept the unacceptable – not only austerity measures, but other regressive and punitive policies....

 

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Leaving the EU is the best thing Greece can do so other countries can follow that example. Even better is leaving the IMF yapping and doing the opposite of what they tell them to do. They're blood suckers and have always demanded countries in debt to go on default and use austherity meassures. 

 

Greece should just stick to their plans and not listen to any outsiders, it hasn't worked at all and actually gone against the countries' favour.

 

Why are they in so much debt though? Is it because all they do is import products from others?

 

The debt comes from years of Greece getting loans from different countries to be able to get into the UE and have Euros as their coin but to do that they needed a certain amount of resources to be able to take part in it, hence why they took loans from other countries. That happened for years but it wasn't made known. Now, when you do that, you have to generate money of some kind to pay back your debts but Greece couldn't back it up and that's why they found themselves in this huge, snowballing debt; which developed into a huge crisis with terrible austerity meassures. 

 

Now this is how a neo-liberal model of government eventually damages a country. They do what the private interests and people like IMF tell them to do which is not in the country's best interests of course, instead of coming up with a better plan that doesn't require having your country men starving.

 

Hopefully they will manage to pull through with other meassures since Tsipras is more left wing than right wing and is determined to not do what these organizations tell him to do. 

 

A lot of people benefit from these crisis too but as always, it's just the 1% (coorporations, banks, hedgefunds).

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Leaving the EU is the best thing Greece can do so other countries can follow that example. Even better is leaving the IMF yapping and doing the opposite of what they tell them to do. They're blood suckers and have always demanded countries in debt to go on default and use austherity meassures. 

 

Greece should just stick to their plans and not listen to any outsiders, it hasn't worked at all and actually gone against the countries' favour.

 

 

The debt comes from years of Greece getting loans from different countries to be able to get into the UE and have Euros as their coin but to do that they needed a certain amount of resources to be able to take part in it, hence why they took loans from other countries. That happened for years but it wasn't made known. Now, when you do that, you have to generate money of some kind to pay back your debts but Greece couldn't back it up and that's why they found themselves in this huge, snowballing debt; which developed into a huge crisis with terrible austerity meassures. 

 

Now this is how a neo-liberal model of government eventually damages a country. They do what the private interests and people like IMF tell them to do which is not in the country's best interests of course, instead of coming up with a better plan that doesn't require having your country men starving.

 

Hopefully they will manage to pull through with other meassures since Tsipras is more left wing than right wing and is determined to not to what these organizations tell him to do. 

 

A lot of people benefit from these crisis but as always, it's just the 1% (coorporations, banks, hedgefunds).

 

My mom told me this will also affect everyone, so more hardships for the working and lower class  :._.:

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My mom told me this will also affect everyone, so more hardships for the working and lower class  :._.:

 

Yes, unfortunately it will. These meassures will always affect everyone eventually. The most affected of course are the lower and working classes but basically middle class too. Even some rich people though not all of course. It's a very bad time for everyone though because if you're rich, you'd still eventually be mugged by a mob at some point... collateral damage and all.

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Yes, unfortunately it will. These meassures will always affect everyone eventually. The most affected of course are the lower and working classes but basically middle class too. Even some rich people though not all of course. It's a very bad time for everyone though because if you're rich, you'd still eventually be mugged by a mob at some point... collateral damage and all.

 

Shame, governments always ruin their own countries at some point  :donthinkso:

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Shame, governments always ruin their own countries at some point  :donthinkso:

 

Indeed hence why all this is bringing a new wave of government models. Like South American governments, Tsipras and most likely the Podemos movement in Spain which will win elections later. All who don't follow the private interests agenda hopefully. 

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Leaving the EU is the best thing Greece can do so other countries can follow that example. Even better is leaving the IMF yapping and doing the opposite of what they tell them to do. They're blood suckers and have always demanded countries in debt to go on default and use austherity meassures. 

 

Greece should just stick to their plans and not listen to any outsiders, it hasn't worked at all and actually gone against the countries' favour.

 

 

The debt comes from years of Greece getting loans from different countries to be able to get into the UE and have Euros as their coin but to do that they needed a certain amount of resources to be able to take part in it, hence why they took loans from other countries. That happened for years but it wasn't made known. Now, when you do that, you have to generate money of some kind to pay back your debts but Greece couldn't back it up and that's why they found themselves in this huge, snowballing debt; which developed into a huge crisis with terrible austerity meassures. 

 

Now this is how a neo-liberal model of government eventually damages a country. They do what the private interests and people like IMF tell them to do which is not in the country's best interests of course, instead of coming up with a better plan that doesn't require having your country men starving.

 

Hopefully they will manage to pull through with other meassures since Tsipras is more left wing than right wing and is determined to not do what these organizations tell him to do. 

 

A lot of people benefit from these crisis too but as always, it's just the 1% (coorporations, banks, hedgefunds).

 

Is that the polite way of saying everybody in Greece expects someone else in Greece to pick up the slack and sacrifice without anything having to change in their own personal affairs, otherwise?

 

Greece wasted loans on sustaining the spending habits that got them the loans in the first place - but this is a limited opinion. I'm ready for the EU to end altogether - such a bad idea, no country should be bound to pay for the mistakes of another country (literally) unless they have investments that speak otherwise.

 

Rip off the band-aid if you have to, just time to make improvements.

 

 

 

 

 

Tick Tock... the idiots in Washington better wake up or the USA could face the same crisis.

 

America is already in the infancy stages of Greece, if not adolescent stages, methinks.

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