To you, what is the worst thing to affect JPOP's popularity atm?

[gyrobot]

Another day, another topic that have me complaining about the JPOP's lack of popularity overseas. But the blame game dictates one thing above the others is singled out so I have decided to compile my personal list of things that is barring JPOP from getting the actual international popularity it deserves.

 

-A lack of a modern sound: A lot fans would go on about how idols in JPOP sound very dated, with the short lifespans of girl groups with modern sounds like Faky and Foxxy Style compared to the elephant in the room that is Johnny and Akb48. They act as an iron wall to modernization of the JIdol genre and a lesser extent JPOP.

 

-Internet firewall: Yes I know Documentaly talked about it all of the time about how inaccessible JPOP is on YT, but a recap is this: The Japanese didn't get to number 2 through free digital music but through a physically dominated market built on stamping out Piracy.

 

-The idol war: Anime idols, regular idols, school idols. Unlike Korea which have their idols well matured. the J-Idol scene treats their girls like they are 13 year olds even when some are twice as old. No innovation whatsoever found with idol groups in Japan.

 

-The Hallyu: Even with it finally winding down after spending about 4 years on top. KPOP was a case of the ultimate astroturf music movement, free from the prejudices that Japan and China suffer. KPOP is generally seen with a lot of respect online, or at least more respect than Japan is having at the moment with every article dedicated to it's decline.

 

So what other reasons would you add to JPOP's decline?

[ToujoursSistar]

Weird concept weird music imo

their female idols are treated like little girl is a real turn off imo.

I also think their groups not their solo artist , lacks vocals and dancing talent ...

 

Edit: pressed jpop fans negging when I only said the truth lel

[Sorrow Air]

Let's start with "when's the last time main stream media reported anything positive regarding Japan?"

[Sorrow Air]

Now change it around to KR.

Start with "When's the last time main stream media reported anything negative regarding South Korea?" (Not counting the dog-eating stuff)

[onieyez]

for me it's their strong movement against piracy

people like me just moved onto what was easier to access on YT and that was kpop

 

if i like an anime song, then I will search for it

 

but my two japanese artist took time off at the same time Yui and Hikki

and now they're both married, I'm not waiting for them to ever return anyways

[closed]

actually jpop industry is more entertaining than Kpop

i wish they could just let international fans access to their products!!!! Or even start promoting overseas like kpop

[rinahamu]

actually jpop industry is more entertaining than Kpop

i wish they could just let international fans access to their products!!!! Or even start promoting overseas like kpop

 

Yeah I really wish they could upload full PVs on youtube available in every country shame on you Nogi, shame on you

[mochichan]

Copyright laws

 

Japan is so unfriendly to foreign fans that any new fans would have hard times finding the genre they like. AKB actually use YT and upkoad full PVs so their materials are more accessible to new people but if you don't like idols then it's hard to search for other alternatives bc many other music acts don't upload full PVs or make their videos easy to find for new fans that have no idea where to begin. Like lol there are modern sounding solos in Japan but like how would any newbie fans know where them if japan makes it hard to find their materials in the first place. People are lazy.

Egirls and Perfume are one of the more known names for foreign fans and their stuffs are on YT.

Learn to use social media japan.

 

 

 

Oh and i sorta disagree with idols being like kids. It's kinda half. They does have a juvenile image during performances when they promote cute singles but when they talk in interviews, appear on tvs, events the 20s act their age. The ones that are getting older tend to stop with twintails and stuffs start styling themselves more grown up like Mayuyu did when she turned 20.

[DocumentaLy]

I would probably say accessibility. Like in an ideal world, JPSTV wouldn't be a thing. I wouldn't have to go to FC2 for music shows. But then again, the more I think about, part of the blame does lie with fans. How do they know we exist unless we reach out to them? Like Ayu knows she had international fans. Why? Because they've been reaching out to her for nearly 20 years. But Nishino Kana is surprised when international fans greet her. Why? Because nobody's reached out to her. 

 

 

Another day, another topic that have me complaining about the JPOP's lack of popularity overseas. But the blame game dictates one thing above the others is singled out so I have decided to compile my personal list of things that is barring JPOP from getting the actual international popularity it deserves.

 

-A lack of a modern sound: A lot fans would go on about how idols in JPOP sound very dated, with the short lifespans of girl groups with modern sounds like Faky and Foxxy Style compared to the elephant in the room that is Johnny and Akb48. They act as an iron wall to modernization of the JIdol genre and a lesser extent JPOP.

 

-Internet firewall: Yes I know Documentaly talked about it all of the time about how inaccessible JPOP is on YT, but a recap is this: The Japanese didn't get to number 2 through free digital music but through a physically dominated market built on stamping out Piracy.

 

-The idol war: Anime idols, regular idols, school idols. Unlike Korea which have their idols well matured. the J-Idol scene treats their girls like they are 13 year olds even when some are twice as old. No innovation whatsoever found with idol groups in Japan.

 

-The Hallyu: Even with it finally winding down after spending about 4 years on top. KPOP was a case of the ultimate astroturf music movement, free from the prejudices that Japan and China suffer. KPOP is generally seen with a lot of respect online, or at least more respect than Japan is having at the moment with every article dedicated to it's decline.

 

So what other reasons would you add to JPOP's decline?

 

Again, I don't get this focus on idols. There are a ton of things that sound contemporary out there but for some reason people don't want to pay attention to it unless there is a cute girl or boy attached to it. I find this quite basic. If you really like music, the act's image shouldn't matter. Another thing, I feel as if a lot of international fans are disconnected from the realities of the real scene in Japan and just focus on this bubble that they've always operated in, which is weird because things are the most accessible they've ever been. People who really are following the scene in Japan and not just staying in the international fan bubble, don't really complain about the music not sounding contemporary.

 

That being said, I do think there are a lot of international fans who are looking for pure pop that isn't your typical idol act, and Japan just isn't about that right now. If you want that, you have Namie, Kyary, Perfume, Kana (who a lot of international fans find dull so they ignore even though she is the biggest female pop star to debut in years), and LDH. Japan is more about veteran acts (who've been around for decades), indie, and idols. Like the biggest breakout act in Japan in past year is easily Gesu no Kiwami Otome., but will international fans be here for an indie band? Looking at different sites, the answer is yes, more and more people outside of Japan are paying attention to them. But would an Ayu fan or an AKB48 fan or an Arashi fan pay attention to them? I doubt it. But then again that's the beauty of the Japanese scene. There really is room for fans of multiple genres of music. It's not like KPop where you get these really contemporary idols and that's about it.

 

And just to prove a point, I'll post contemporary sounding songs with full videos from YouTube (because people always bring up lack of videos on YouTube as if that's a really widespread thing when its not):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The real question is, are international fans willing to break out of their bubble? More and more, I'm finding the answer to be yes. But there are a lot of international fans who aren't. Sucks for them. But the fans who have broken out of the bubble can do a good deed and at least show this content to other international fans.

 

for me it's their strong movement against piracy

people like me just moved onto what was easier to access on YT and that was kpop

 

if i like an anime song, then I will search for it

 

but my two japanese artist took time off at the same time Yui and Hikki

and now they're both married, I'm not waiting for them to ever return anyways

 

If you like something, why would you ditch it because you can't find it easily. If you really liked it, you would just work more to find it.

 

 

Yeah I really wish they could upload full PVs on youtube available in every country shame on you Nogi, shame on you

 

 

Copyright laws

Japan is so unfriendly to foreign fans that any new fans would have hard times finding the genre they like. AKB actually use YT and upkoad full PVs so their materials are more accessible to new people but if you don't like idols then it's hard to search for other alternatives bc many other music acts don't upload full PVs or make their videos easy to find for new fans that have no idea where to begin. Like lol there are modern sounding solos in Japan but like how would any newbie fans know where them if japan makes it hard to find their materials in the first place. People are lazy.
Egirls and Perfume are one of the more known names for foreign fans and their stuffs are on YT.
Learn to use social media japan.

 

Like I've said before, the full PV thing really depends on who you listen to. The vast majority of acts that I listen to do put full videos on YouTube in HD. But then again, I listen to a lot of smaller acts who do embrace the digital world and social media. As far as videos go, I would say the most annoying thing is the Sony blockage, but then again that may be changing seeing as how JUJU just had her video (which was uploaded in full) unblocked.

[Midna]

Definitely accessibility if someone is not willing to put the time I to finding it.

 

Honestly the idol argument is getting really old. I just feel that people are just lazy.

[mochichan]

Like I've said before, the full PV thing really depends on who you listen to. The vast majority of acts that I listen to do put full videos on YouTube in HD. But then again, I listen to a lot of smaller acts who do embrace the digital world and social media. As far as videos go, I would say the most annoying thing is the Sony blockage, but then again that may be changing seeing as how JUJU just had her video (which was uploaded in full) unblocked.

Yeah like there are other acts that use YT but if they're smaller acts like you said newer fans aren't going to know about them to find their stuffs in the first place. It doesn't help alot of videos are in Japanese and hard to search compare to kpop that have english titles.

[DocumentaLy]

Definitely accessibility if someone is not willing to put the time I to finding it.

 

Honestly the idol argument is getting really old. I just feel that people are just lazy.

 

The idol argument would've been more valid a few years ago when idols were more of a thing. The boom has went bust.

 

 

Yeah like there are other acts that use YT but if they're smaller acts like you said newer fans aren't going to know about them to find their stuffs in the first place. It doesn't help alot of videos are in Japanese and hard to search compare to kpop that have english titles.

 

I think this is where fans come in. Fans have to help each other.

[MoreTokyo]

Response to @gyrobot concerning his 1st and 3rd argument: Especia (

), You'll Melt More (

), Brand New Idol Society (

), 5572320 (

), and Lyrical School (

) have incorporated elements of vaporwave, dream pop, shoegaze, digital hardcore, city pop, noise, and rap.  Negicco (

) and Vanilla Beans (

) have added their own perspective to shibuya kei that creates a fine balance between traditional and modern. Shiritsu Ebisu Chuugaku (

), Team Syachihoko (

), Momoiro Clover Z (

), and Dempagumi Inc (

) have a hyperactive, kinetic, and often nonsensical mixture of sounds. Narasaki (Coaltar of Deepers), Jojo Hiroshige (Hijokaidan), Hiroyuki Hayashi (Polysics), and Yasuharu Konishi (Pizzicato Five) have all worked and produced alongside various idol groups in Japan. Furthemore, Romantic Productions, Tofubeats, Okadada, Fragment, Schtein & Longer and numerous other producers have had an opportunity for their music to be heard by a larger audience. Idol groups (w/in the underground) has become much more diverse, unique, and innovative because it's being handled by independent musicians and producers that have brought life to the independent community. Idol groups in have showcased much more innovation in terms of music and concepts in comparison to their Korean counterparts that are pigeon held to a redundant genre and aesthetic.

 

It's quite obvious that you lack the knowledge, understanding, and information concerning the idol industry in Japan outside of AKB48 and Johnny Entertainment. AKB48 and Johnny Entertainment aren't indicative of the entire industry. However, it's almost always used as a means to assess and criticize the industry and groups, which ends up making quite a bit of your argument ineffective, misinformed, and short sighted.

[Hemlock]

People that think what's said in the OP is true which stops them from giving jpop a fair try. 

[gyrobot]

Response to @gyrobot concerning his 1st and 3rd argument: Especia (

), You'll Melt More (

), Brand New Idol Society (

), 5572320 (

), and Lyrical School (

) have incorporated elements of vaporwave, dream pop, shoegaze, digital hardcore, city pop, noise, and rap. Negicco (

) and Vanilla Beans (

) have added their own perspective to shibuya kei that creates a fine balance between traditional and modern. Shiritsu Ebisu Chuugaku (

), Team Syachihoko (

), Momoiro Clover Z (

), and Dempagumi Inc (

) have a hyperactive, kinetic, and often nonsensical mixture of sounds. Narasaki (Coaltar of Deepers), Jojo Hiroshige (Hijokaidan), Hiroyuki Hayashi (Polysics), and Yasuharu Konishi (Pizzicato Five) have all worked and produced alongside various idol groups in Japan. Furthemore, Romantic Productions, Tofubeats, Okadada, Fragment, Schtein & Longer and numerous other producers have had an opportunity for their music to be heard by a larger audience. Idol groups (w/in the underground) has become much more diverse, unique, and innovative because it's being handled by independent musicians and producers that have brought life to the independent community. Idol groups in have showcased much more innovation in terms of music and concepts in comparison to their Korean counterparts that are pigeon held to a redundant genre and aesthetic.

 

It's quite obvious that you lack the knowledge, understanding, and information concerning the idol industry in Japan outside of AKB48 and Johnny Entertainment. AKB48 and Johnny Entertainment aren't indicative of the entire industry. However, it's almost always used as a means to assess and criticize the industry and groups, which ends up making quite a bit of your argument ineffective, misinformed, and short sighted.

"The slum is the measure of civilization." - Jacob Riis

 

The reason why people tend to use Johnny and Akb48 is because that is how all idol groups are use as the standard. Its the first sight any aspiring fan or journalist sees and they use that as whats popular in Japan. If they give a good first impression than more power to them but since they dont they have been seen as a negative influence in jpop

[Ryusenkai]

Response to @gyrobot concerning his 1st and 3rd argument: Especia (

), You'll Melt More (

), Brand New Idol Society (

), 5572320 (

), and Lyrical School (

) have incorporated elements of vaporwave, dream pop, shoegaze, digital hardcore, city pop, noise, and rap.  Negicco (

) and Vanilla Beans (

) have added their own perspective to shibuya kei that creates a fine balance between traditional and modern. Shiritsu Ebisu Chuugaku (

), Team Syachihoko (

), Momoiro Clover Z (

), and Dempagumi Inc (

) have a hyperactive, kinetic, and often nonsensical mixture of sounds. Narasaki (Coaltar of Deepers), Jojo Hiroshige (Hijokaidan), Hiroyuki Hayashi (Polysics), and Yasuharu Konishi (Pizzicato Five) have all worked and produced alongside various idol groups in Japan. Furthemore, Romantic Productions, Tofubeats, Okadada, Fragment, Schtein & Longer and numerous other producers have had an opportunity for their music to be heard by a larger audience. Idol groups (w/in the underground) has become much more diverse, unique, and innovative because it's being handled by independent musicians and producers that have brought life to the independent community. Idol groups in have showcased much more innovation in terms of music and concepts in comparison to their Korean counterparts that are pigeon held to a redundant genre and aesthetic.

 

It's quite obvious that you lack the knowledge, understanding, and information concerning the idol industry in Japan outside of AKB48 and Johnny Entertainment. AKB48 and Johnny Entertainment aren't indicative of the entire industry. However, it's almost always used as a means to assess and criticize the industry and groups, which ends up making quite a bit of your argument ineffective, misinformed, and short sighted.

 

Just wanted to stop and complement you on the nicely constructed argument; you don't see too many of those on the internet so it's honestly a very pleasant surprise.  I very much agree with your point since, even though I'm not particularly interested in the idol market, there has definitely been a significant infusion of vibrance there over the past several years that has helped it immensely.  The sheer amount of crossover between scenes that occurs nowadays is a great boon to all involved, since it ends up producing fascinating fusions of musical styles and earning recognition for all involved.

 

 

"The slum is the measure of civilization." - Jacob Riis

 

The reason why people tend to use Johnny and Akb48 is because that is how all idol groups are use as the standard. Its the first sight any aspiring fan or journalist sees and they use that as whats popular in Japan. If they give a good first impression than more power to them but since they dont they have been seen as a negative influence in jpop

 

Throwing out a snappy quote by a muckraking journalist does not a rebuttal make; the perceived authority of the figure in question does nothing to strengthen your own point (nor do you provide any evidence to prove the truth of said statement).  Further, I question that those idols would necessarily be the first sight an aspiring fan would come across considering how many have found their way to Japanese music through anime and video games, wherein which the overall percentage of theme songs done by idols (particularly those from Johnny's or AKB's camp) is noticeably smaller than in other fields like dramas.  Your statement seems assumptive and overbroad in light of that, since while first impressions are certainly a powerful influence (as numerous psychological studies have confirmed) your argument depends upon the likelihood through which people will come upon Japanese music in this specific manner.  Until you provide data that supports that the majority of listeners from outside Japan encounter idols from AKB or Johnny's prior to any other act in the industry, I'll remain skeptical about your claims regarding the effect such would have on the overall popularity of the J-music industry abroad.

[lecoupe]

It's all about the fresh sound i think.

 

If you compare three bands that performed in front of parisiens this year, you'll soon notice the difference btw them.

 

 

GENERATIONS from EXILE TRIBE

 

 

 

BLOCK B

 

 

 

UKISS

 

 

 

For me, K-pop sounds more modern and fresh than J-pop and that, i think, has been translated into international popularity (attendance) as you can see in the videos of them performing in Europe.

 

I used to listen to Amuro Namie 5 to 7 yrs ago but then i soon lost interests because her albums sound similar one after another.

[DocumentaLy]

It's all about the fresh sound i think.

 

If you compare three bands that performed in front of parisiens this year, you'll soon notice the difference btw them.

 

 

GENERATIONS from EXILE TRIBE

 

 

 

BLOCK B

 

 

 

UKISS

 

 

 

For me, K-pop sounds more modern and fresh than J-pop and that, i think, has been translated into international popularity (attendance) as you can see in the videos of them performing in Europe.

 

I used to listen to Amuro Namie 5 to 7 yrs ago but then i soon lost interests because her albums sound similar one after another.

 

There are 2 songs there. The middle one is just people in line. They're both generic pop songs, but the U-Kiss one sounds really dated.

[IceHism]

Why have you gone through the same argument for like the past year. When people give you their opinions, you don't change at all nor try to disprove anyone disagreeing with you. At some point, you have to be tired of this shit right. How do you have so much time to complain but none to go look for things on your own. And it might be out of your comfort zone, but I think its time for you to look at things outside of arashi and akb.

[DocumentaLy]

Why have you gone through the same argument for like the past year. When people give you their opinions, you don't change at all nor try to disprove anyone disagreeing with you. At some point, you have to be tired of this shit right. How do you have so much time to complain but none to go look for things on your own. And it might be out of your comfort zone, but I think its time for you to look at things outside of arashi and akb.

 

He wants something that basically doesn't exist. He wants a sexy, womanly Japanese girl group that has good voices and makes contemporary music. 

[lecoupe]

There are 2 songs there. The middle one is just people in line. They're both generic pop songs, but the U-Kiss one sounds really dated.

 

That is your opinion and i respect that. but i still think it's the sound that makes J-music unattractive to many international fans .

[IceHism]

He wants something that basically doesn't exist. He wants a sexy, womanly Japanese girl group that has good voices and makes contemporary music.

I mean, it never really became a trend to begin with... Besides, their "contemporary" is probably different than what the west considers contemporary. Lastly, I don't see why he doesn't just listen to kpop or something western. Is someone chaining him to a chair to force him to listen to jpop.

 

On a side note, I always hear the meme that "Japanese people don't listen to japanese music or jpop" on all those japanese internet boards but I never see any of their people making the music the young japanese people want to hear. I always remember Japanese youths to be big on counterculture to a certain extent with all of the different niches they have and this leads me to two separate possibilities:

 

1: the youth aren't making the music they want to listen to.

 

Or

 

2: they are and its not western contemporary pop music they want to listen to.

 

I think 2 is most likely considering the rise of indie.

[DocumentaLy]

That is your opinion and i respect that. but i still think it's the sound that makes J-music unattractive to many international fans .

 

How if it sounds the same basically? 

[DocumentaLy]

I mean, it never really became a trend to begin with... Besides, their "contemporary" is probably different than what the west considers contemporary. Lastly, I don't see why he doesn't just listen to kpop or something western. Is someone chaining him to a chair to force him to listen to jpop.

 

On a side note, I always hear the meme that "Japanese people don't listen to japanese music or jpop" on all those japanese internet boards but I never see any of their people making the music the young japanese people want to hear. I always remember Japanese youths to be big on counterculture to a certain extent with all of the different niches they have and this leads me to two separate possibilities:

 

1: the youth aren't making the music they want to listen to.

 

Or

 

2: they are and its not western contemporary pop music they want to listen to.

 

I think 2 is most likely considering the rise of indie.

 

I think people want Japanese music to be the same as music everywhere else, except in Japanese. Japanese people do listen to Western and Korean music, so I don't see why he can't.

 

I do hear that Japanese people don't listen to Japanese music, but if that's the case, then why aren't the charts dominated by Western music? I know that Taylor Swift, One Direction, and Ariana Grande are all popular in Japan currently, but that's just 3 acts. Every other thing on the lists of top releases is Japanese with a few Koreans thrown in. Sometimes I think these people are speaking anecdotally as opposed to generally.

 

I think it could be a mix of the 2. Indie is rising and that is a youth-oriented thing, but it's not as if every young person is listening to that.

 

In the end, it gets annoying when people say Japanese music needs to do this or do that, especially when people have a very narrow scope as far as what they want or don't bother to look for things themselves. 

[gyrobot]

I mean, it never really became a trend to begin with... Besides, their "contemporary" is probably different than what the west considers contemporary. Lastly, I don't see why he doesn't just listen to kpop or something western. Is someone chaining him to a chair to force him to listen to jpop.

 

On a side note, I always hear the meme that "Japanese people don't listen to japanese music or jpop" on all those japanese internet boards but I never see any of their people making the music the young japanese people want to hear. I always remember Japanese youths to be big on counterculture to a certain extent with all of the different niches they have and this leads me to two separate possibilities:

 

1: the youth aren't making the music they want to listen to.

 

Or

 

2: they are and its not western contemporary pop music they want to listen to.

 

I think 2 is most likely considering the rise of indie.

 

If I am going to be honest with on this, I am an anime fan. In the past I wasn't that dedicated to the fandom and decided to take the plunge with idol anime since everything else was only barely holding my interest in a shallow manner. Along with Johnny and 48G, the big idol brand holder is owned by Bandai Namco who owns directly or indirectly the following series.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Idolmaster

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikatsu!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Live!

 

As seen here: http://aramajapan.com/chart/japan-box-office-ranking-week-of-june-13-14/19590/. The Love Live film had sold well in the box office, proving that the interconnected anime and idol industry can work really well together and if there is one other industry that specializes in gouging people for money, it would be the anime industry. Love Live is so successful with their anime, live concerts (yes the seiyuus actually do live shows) check out one of the Endless performances here.

 

https://vimeo.com/120075562

 

Also, I do listen to kpop and american pop, but really if you want ask what really is my poison it would be jazz and R&B. My situation can be best describe as trying to fit a round peg in a square situation, I want to hang out with my geeky friends but deep down I am someone who likes something else way more than the current interest.

 

He wants something that basically doesn't exist. He wants a sexy, womanly Japanese girl group that has good voices and makes contemporary music. 

 

They did exist, but they had been cast aside for idol groups that is completely averse to my ideal girl group. Until then, I am just going to mix some random anime idol group with kpop to soothe that wanting feeling. I mean Tomomi Itano is trying with that but that is getting a pretty negative buzz within her own fandom and maybe a couple of kpop fans who despises anyone associated or formerly associated with the AKB48 brand.