So why do record labels continue to release male groups despite knowing they'll be cockblocked by Johnny's?

[Lakerol]

I just found out about Da-Ice and they've been around since last year but knowing the history of non-Johnny's male groups except for EXILE and Sandaime, will we ever see non-Johnny's male groups make it big despite the presence of JE (and LDH)?

[DocumentaLy]

Because LDH and KPop have shown there is a way. They're trying to expand the niche beyond the stuff what JE does. The stuff that LDH and KPop does is not like that of JE.

[Azero]

Doesn't look like it. I mean even SM boygroups made it after Johnnys and SM started to work together. It's still amazing how Johnnys can pull this shit for so many years. It only can happen if Johnnys lose a hell lot of popularity, but even after so many scandals their groups don't lose popularity. And to answer your title question. They still make enough money with the little popularity they have.

[Kaity]

You're assuming everyone only likes johnnys...

[DocumentaLy]

Doesn't look like it. I mean even SM boygroups made it after Johnnys and SM started to work together. It's still amazing how Johnnys can pull this shit for so many years. It only can happen if Johnnys lose a hell lot of popularity, but even after so many scandals their groups don't lose popularity. And to answer your title question. They still make enough money with the little popularity they have.

 

But one thing that is happening with Johnny's is that the newer acts are failing to catch on as much as the older ones did. There's also a lot of internal drama. Some are predicting a fall...

[Misa]

But one thing that is happening with Johnny's is that the newer acts are failing to catch on as much as the older ones did. There's also a lot of internal drama. Some are predicting a fall...

 

I agree, the johnny's fans don't care very much about the new groups, the old groups are keeping the company on top, with Arashi at the head, but... the leader of Arashi is 34 years, 35 this year, What group will be the successor? Sexy Zone, Johnnys WEST or other new group? Julie Keiko Fujishima has much work to do if they don't want the fans lose interest, the old groups will not last forever.

 

Now with LDH, the things are worse, LDH are really different and attractive, many young people are choosing LDH.

[Azero]

But one thing that is happening with Johnny's is that the newer acts are failing to catch on as much as the older ones did. There's also a lot of internal drama. Some are predicting a fall...

IDK. I follow Johnnys since 2008. And people always say the same thing over and over again. The whole Julie VS Iijima story will ruin them(How old are the rumors? 4 years at least.), that Arashis popularity will decrease (It's already 7 years since their boom and nothing decreased at all.), that the new Johnnys groups are useless and won't gain popularity anymore (look at Kanjani8 & Kisumai, telling otherwise), that scandals will ruin them (we basically had every scandal possible in this company: drugs, sex, marriage, showing your penis, kicking members out, underage smoking & dating till sexual harassment, child abuse & media manipulation) and still there are on top. 

The only thing that could cause something would be the death of Johnny, I mean the guy is like 90 already, but lets be honest, how much influence does he has right now in term of anything? 

[DocumentaLy]

I agree, the johnny's fans don't care very much about the new groups, the old groups are keeping the company on top, with Arashi at the head, but... the leader of Arashi is 34 years, 35 this year, What group will be the successor? Sexy Zone, Johnnys WEST or other new group? Julie Keiko Fujishima has much work to do if they don't want the fans lose interest, the old groups will not last forever.

 

Now with LDH, the things are worse, LDH are really different and attractive, many young people are choosing LDH.

 

This is all true. I asked the Johnny's fans here and on Arama a while ago which group will take over as the head group after Arashi like they did to SMAP. Some were saying Kanjani8, but they're really close in age to Arashi. Some were saying it was supposed to be NEWS or KAT-TUN until their members started leaving.  Some were saying Kis-My-Ft2, but that their group staggering was a hindrance. Some were saying it could be Hey! Say! JUMP if they're pushed enough, but the numbers / attention just aren't there. Things are even worse for Sexy Zone, Johnny's WEST and A.B.C-Z. But it does seem as if they're pumping out more groups recently, maybe in hopes that something will stick. In the 00s, they created 5 new groups. They've created 4 this decade, all since 2011. Something is up...

 

But things are worse now because of LDH. Things were looking a tad uneasy when KPop became a thing, but now that you have the essence of KPop within a Japanese company, things are looking worse. There is an alternative now. The older groups are going to be fine because they have their fanbases already but the younger ones are going to have it harder because there is competition now. And the competition is more talented, better looking, more contemporary. If Johnny's had kept up with the times and borrowed things from KPop like LDH, they would probably be better off and LDH probably wouldn't be the force they are now. But Johnny's is such a dinosaur of a company that they can't keep up with the times and they're paying for it. Things are only going to get worse, unless they change. I'm really curious to see if the new Arashi album can top the 3JSB album, because if it doesn't, there is going to be a fanwar like all hell and it is going to be the funniest thing in a while.

[Misa]

IDK. I follow Johnnys since 2008. And people always say the same thing over and over again. The whole Julie VS Iijima story will ruin them(How old are the rumors? 4 years at least.), that Arashis popularity will decrease (It's already 7 years since their boom and nothing decreased at all.), that the new Johnnys groups are useless and won't gain popularity anymore (look at Kanjani8 & Kisumai, telling otherwise), that scandals will ruin them (we basically had every scandal possible in this company: drugs, sex, marriage, showing your penis, kicking members out, underage smoking & dating till sexual harassment, child abuse & media manipulation) and still there are on top. 

The only thing that could cause something would be the death of Johnny, I mean the guy is like 90 already, but lets be honest, how much influence does he has right now in term of anything? 

 

Kisumai was formed in 2005, They were really popular before the debut

[DocumentaLy]

IDK. I follow Johnnys since 2008. And people always say the same thing over and over again. The whole Julie VS Iijima story will ruin them(How old are the rumors? 4 years at least.), that Arashis popularity will decrease (It's already 7 years since their boom and nothing decreased at all.), that the new Johnnys groups are useless and won't gain popularity anymore (look at Kanjani8 & Kisumai, telling otherwise), that scandals will ruin them (we basically had every scandal possible in this company: drugs, sex, marriage, showing your penis, kicking members out, underage smoking & dating till sexual harassment, child abuse & media manipulation) and still there are on top. 

The only thing that could cause something would be the death of Johnny, I mean the guy is like 90 already, but lets be honest, how much influence does he has right now in term of anything? 

 

Kis-My-Ft2 is the only group from this decade that's gained any traction. NEWS and KAT-TUN having members leave have hurt their sales and popularity. Johnny's is good at covering up scandals though. I mean if you can cover a molestation scandal that everyone knows about...

 

But let's look at what has happened since those internal conflicts rumors have started: the blockade has essentially crumbled. KPop was able to get in and now LDH is too.

Kisumai was formed in 2005, They were really popular before the debut

 

They debuted in 2011. Whatever, that goes to further prove my point that the new groups are irrelevant.

[kathp]

you can have a niche market.

some lesser known boy groups than Da-Ice survive in the industry.

 

Its two sides for the younger JE groups. They both have it harder bec their senpais are more established AND easier bec their senpais opened up the opportunities (they're on all sides of the industry now, TV, variety, movies, news, sports, MC-ing, art, books), - stronger industry connections.

 

SMAP is still going strong, too early to even ask for Arashi's reign to end. 

 

But it's not like the company isn't grooming the successors. The main push among the youngsters is HSJ, with Yamada in the lead. But even then, among the older groups they're pushing for more of the talent. They're now even saying Kanjani8's Murakami is the next Nakai. 

 

They're establishing the other groups too before debuting a new group. And if that anticipated junior group debuts, they're gonna be the next big debut ala Kis-my-Ft2.

[kathp]

 I'm really curious to see if the new Arashi album can top the 3JSB album, because if it doesn't, there is going to be a fanwar like all hell and it is going to be the funniest thing in a while.

 

If they badly want to top that, all they have to do is release a 3 version album. But I doubt it.

[DocumentaLy]

If they badly want to top that, all they have to do is release a 3 version album. But I doubt it.

 

But then if they do that, they would probably split content like the other groups. Then they'd be accused of cheating, also resulting in a fanwar. Basically, there is going to be a fanwar either way... Unless they just stick with their 2 versions, or do a CD only, CD+DVD, CD+Blu-ray release.

[Jotham]

The reason why some of the boy groups that aren't gaining much attention is because they are no different from the Johnny boy groups. 

[Misa]

 

They're establishing the other groups too before debuting a new group. And if that anticipated junior group debuts, they're gonna be the next big debut ala Kis-my-Ft2.

 

The last group formed (the past month), Six Tones, the fans have great expectations about this group, the boys are popular, Tanaka Koki's brother is in this group and the boys are in dramas and magazines, Kyomoto Taiga has a great voice, the fans compare him with Akanishi Jin but I don't expect one debut this year.

[Azero]

Kisumai was formed in 2005, They were really popular before the debut

Well they officialy debuted in 2011, before that they were only Johnnys Jr. 

Their debut was good but after that they got into a slump but now they are fully back again. Their latest singles got Platinum and Double Platinum certification. Same goes to their album, best album and concert DVD.

[kathp]

But then if they do that, they would probably split content like the other groups. Then they'd be accused of cheating, also resulting in a fanwar. Basically, there is going to be a fanwar either way... Unless they just stick with their 2 versions, or do a CD only, CD+DVD, CD+Blu-ray release.

 

They won't do a CD+ DVD or a CD+2DVD or put out shop editions or whatever combinations there is bec they don't compile their music videos or insert documentaries or put LIVE clips in an album. 

 

The groups under the umbrella of J-storm generally release their albums like Arashi.

 

If they even follow a bit of the edition types of 3SJB, it will greatly increase their sales, judging from their DVD sales alone. I mean, if you offer an Arashi album with MVs with Live clips with documentaries in different editions...

[Misa]

Some were saying Kis-My-Ft2, but that their group staggering was a hindrance.

Well they officialy debuted in 2011, before that they were only Johnnys Jr. 

Their debut was good but after that they got into a slump but now they are fully back again. Their latest singles got Platinum and Double Platinum certification. Same goes to their album, best album and concert DVD.

 

Yes, Kisumai has good sales, but the 3+4 formation...the fans don't  like this, I think Kisumai is the second/third group at the moment in Johnnys in sales but... How long? Kitayama is 30 this year and Yokko is 29

[kathp]

The last group formed (the past month), Six Tones, the fans have great expectations about this group, the boys are popular, Tanaka Koki's brother is in this group and the boys are in dramas and magazines, Kyomoto Taiga has a great voice, the fans compare him with Akanishi Jin but I don't expect one debut this year.

 

I'm talking about them, yes. Isn't it ironic, Koki's brother is in this group, as well as Ryutaro's (ex HSJ) brother, 'golden boy' Shintaro, is in this group. The most likely frontmen and main vocals are Jesse and Taiga. I don't think they are going to debut this year or any time soon. It'll take a bit of time, maybe wait for everyone to turn 20 like how they waited for Kisumai and KAT-TUN to be all 20 before debuting. But them becoming an official unit really raises that anticipation.

 

If they are gonna debut though, they're most likely gonna follow closely the KAT-TUN image.

[Misa]

I'm talking about them, yes. Isn't it ironic, Koki's brother is in this group, as well as Ryutaro's (ex HSJ) brother, 'golden boy' Shintaro, is in this group. The most likely frontmen and main vocals are Jesse and Taiga. I don't think they are going to debut this year or any time soon. It'll take a bit of time, maybe wait for everyone to turn 20 like how they waited for Kisumai and KAT-TUN to be all 20 before debuting. But them becoming an official unit really raises that anticipation.

 

If they are gonna debut though, they're most likely gonna follow closely the KAT-TUN image.

 

I agree

[Amaya]

Just sayin Da-iCE is doing fine, Avex ditched them for FAKY and where are they now.

[kaleidostar]

IDK. I follow Johnnys since 2008. And people always say the same thing over and over again. The whole Julie VS Iijima story will ruin them(How old are the rumors? 4 years at least.), that Arashis popularity will decrease (It's already 7 years since their boom and nothing decreased at all.), that the new Johnnys groups are useless and won't gain popularity anymore (look at Kanjani8 & Kisumai, telling otherwise), that scandals will ruin them (we basically had every scandal possible in this company: drugs, sex, marriage, showing your penis, kicking members out, underage smoking & dating till sexual harassment, child abuse & media manipulation) and still there are on top. 

The only thing that could cause something would be the death of Johnny, I mean the guy is like 90 already, but lets be honest, how much influence does he has right now in term of anything? 

 

 

This. And while it's true that currently no one in the younger groups has shown any sign of being the next Arashi, I'm so sure that the company will find a way to make them really popular. I mean 10 years ago, who could have predicted that Arashi (a flop group at that time- in Johnny's standard) will be the top idols today.

 

 

If they badly want to top that, all they have to do is release a 3 version album. But I doubt it.

 

I agree. I don't think J&A and J-Storm even cares if they get the top spot in the album chart or not. They could have done something about AKB48 selling more than their no.1 group, but no they insist on their usual way of releases.

 

Tbh, I want Arashi to try something different, add more gimmicks just like what everyone else is doing. 3JSB who is not an idol group gives more bonuses on their stuffs than Arashi. 

[Azero]

 

 

 

This. And while it's true that currently no one in the younger groups has shown any sign of being the next Arashi, I'm so sure that the company will find a way to make them really popular. I mean 10 years ago, who could have predicted that Arashi (a flop group at that time- in Johnny's standard) will be the top idols today.

 

 

 

I agree. I don't think J&A and J-Storm even cares if they get the top spot in the album chart or not. They could have done something about AKB48 selling more than their no.1 group, but no they insist on their usual way of releases.

 

Tbh, I want Arashi to try something different, add more gimmicks just like what everyone else is doing. 3JSB who is not an idol group gives more bonuses on their stuffs than Arashi. 

 

People also gave up on Arashi and Kanjani midway and look what happend. Arashi was a freakin nobody for 8 years until they became this wall. Kanjani and Kisumai are doing okayish now, they have their ups and down. The only groups suffering now are News and Kattun, but lets be honest they both lost their most popular members, have so many scandals and still can sell over 100k.

[DocumentaLy]

 

 

 

This. And while it's true that currently no one in the younger groups has shown any sign of being the next Arashi, I'm so sure that the company will find a way to make them really popular. I mean 10 years ago, who could have predicted that Arashi (a flop group at that time- in Johnny's standard) will be the top idols today.

 

 

 

I agree. I don't think J&A and J-Storm even cares if they get the top spot in the album chart or not. They could have done something about AKB48 selling more than their no.1 group, but no they insist on their usual way of releases.

 

Tbh, I want Arashi to try something different, add more gimmicks just like what everyone else is doing. 3JSB who is not an idol group gives more bonuses on their stuffs than Arashi. 

 

 

Ehh, AKB48 is different since they're a girl group. They're not as direct of competition as 3JSB.

 

 

People also gave up on Arashi and Kanjani midway and look what happend. Arashi was a freakin nobody for 8 years until they became this wall. Kanjani and Kisumai are doing okayish now, they have their ups and down. The only groups suffering now are News and Kattun, but lets be honest they both lost their most popular members, have so many scandals and still can sell over 100k.

 

They started expanding the number of editions and splitting content so that they could keep those numbers.

[Azero]

Ehh, AKB48 is different since they're a girl group. They're not as direct of competition as 3JSB.

 

 

 

They started expanding the number of editions and splitting content so that they could keep those numbers.

Could be I am not familiar with the editions of them. They still get the numbers.