[KB] Netizens Discuss the State of Welfare in Korea

[Kaleidoscope]

Source:http://www.koreabang.com/2015/pictures/netizens-discuss-the-state-of-welfare-in-korea.html

 

This article presents a compilation of a few posts from the Facebook page Liberalism as a snippet into welfare debates that were recently sparked again by the “free school lunch†controversy. Keep in mind that many netizen comments in this article were written with heavy sarcasm, which won’t be pointed out every time to our readers. ~ jay.h

 

FROM: LIBERALISM (https://www.facebook.com/21Liberalism/posts/439997909488646)

Real comparison can be made with countries that have at least 50 million people. Countries like Myanmar, South Africa, Thailand, Congo or traditionally developed countries such as the UK, Italy, France, and Germany. It is mere propaganda to compare Korea to countries with small populations and abundant natural resources, in an attempt to create complaints. Korea’s living standards used to be worse than the Philippines. But Korea developed to be on par with Italy. Compared to other countries with comparable populations, Korea’s welfare system is developing well. ~ [Full text of slide twelve:]

 

COMMENTS FROM LIBERALISM:

문진우: Dear admin of Liberalism, why don’t you stay neutral these days? Korea is backwards in welfare. This kind of article is very inappropriate. We cannot have proper welfare all because of large corporations and rich people. I don’t think it is due to a lack of natural resources. It is false propaganda that we used to be poorer than the Philippines so correct that please. I’m disappointed lately. Don’t post biased articles without facts. I’m considering unsubscribing from your page. I hope you delete this until I come back after playing three rounds of League of Legends. The reason why I spend time to write this long comment is because I’ve seen comments getting the most up-votes just because they are long. I will be back after playing some LoL. Please make this comment the most voted one. [Translator’s note: This comment contains sarcasm in hypothetical criticism against the article and intentional typos to mimic a certain political figure’s speech style.]

 

ì´ìƒë¯¼: We don’t have oil all because of Park Geun-hye, you know? What a shame that you don’t know it better!!

 

Junhyeok Kim: 50 million population, freaking tiny land, no oil, and not many renowned tourist spots as in China, the US, Japan, Australia, or Europe. Aren’t we honestly getting enough welfare benefits compared to our tax rates? I think Korea is great because we get this much welfare despite the unfavorable circumstances.

 

ê¹€ë•ìˆ˜: For real, please stop demanding “free welfareâ€. The nation will go under because of those short-sighted people.

 

Scott Lee: You should add one more thing. Taxation in Norway…it’s really scary. Even a country like that still needs to tax a lot to maintain their welfare system. Free welfare? It’s as realistic as men getting pregnant.

 

임다í¬: In short, welfare costs for us comes directly from our tax money in our country with no natural resources.

 

권오민: In Korea, there are 20 million barrels of oil, too. Don’t you know that the National Intelligence Service is hiding this fact to satisfy their own greed? If Moon Jae-in becomes President soon and pours money into North Korea, Korea can be peacefully united under the North Korean regime and we will get welfare benefits from exporting oil.

 

ì´ìƒí˜„: This is all the dinosaurs’ fault… If they had died in Korea, Korea could’ve been an oil-rich country and we would be enjoying such an easy life. We are living like this because dinosaurs died in some weird places. Dinosaurs who lived in the Korean peninsula, you SoBs… All you fucking bastards did was leaving footprints and bailing. It’s all because of you dinosaurs…

 

Jeon Yuchan: Their population is 5 million? I don’t care. Just give us welfare like in Norway. Ah, it is possible in Norway because of oil? I don’t care. Just give us free welfare.

 

Lee Chiho: Time to re-evaluate Oh Se-hoon. [Former mayor of Seoul]

 

ê¹€ë„ì˜: It is not just comparing. Sure, there are some people who blindly do that. But it is also not right to criticize just looking at those countries as references. I think we can at least regard them as an example. It doesn’t mean we have to follow their way. Just that such cases exist. Also, I think one of the reasons why Norway could become like that was their endeavor to achieve a high degree of social transparency, one of the best in the world. Isn’t this necessary for Korea that ranked at the bottom for transparency among the OECD countries? Also, well-planned welfare can be very beneficial. Let’s not even discuss trashy policies like free school lunch. Didn’t you say before that the only resources we have are human resources? Then wouldn’t it be right to set our education policy straight first? As I said in another thread, we should make diverse jobs viable and train the homeless to work. However, some parts of education policy are designed to promote discrimination against certain jobs, which undermines this diversity. Also, we should improve our childcare policy. Not excessively but adequately. Everything in moderation is good.

 

안ë„현: Then for sure, there would be people who rant about how Korea spends so little money on welfare among the OECD countries. Unlike the other OECD countries, Korea has no natural or tourism resources. We also spend an astronomical amount of money on defense against North Korea. It would be weird if Korean spent so much money on welfare. In these circumstances, welfare in Korea is decent. However, some people compare Korea to countries like Norway and Sweden that have abundant natural resources and small populations like 5 million, tsk tsk.

 

김정환: This site always just shows some extreme examples to make a point and ends there. I get that we can’t simply compare Korea to Norway, but the ultimate claim here is that Korea’s welfare is decent in Korea’s environment and conditions. Where is the basis for that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BACKSTORY (NEW TOPIC)

Park Won-soon (mayor of Seoul)
 

*hailed as the sympathetic mayor who pitied the homeless
*he installed heated floors (ondol) for the homeless and gave out free smart phones (the argument here is that thanks to the heated floors and free phones, the homeless did not have to work due to the fact that in the heated rooms they were able to get fast wifi and free meals)
*Next the mayor decided to pay goshiwon fees for those who couldn’t pay rent for more than 3 months, mobilizing 15.7 billion won. (He did not consider the fact that rent payment delay can happen in officetels or regular houses, too. So why only goshiwons? (Mmm..because that gives you the most pitiful FEELING. ^^) <-Netizen theory
*People living in other types of housing with rent can have a hard life. Wouldn’t it be unfair to help only those living in goshiwons? Hey, you are too much~! Don’t you know how hard it is to live in a goshiwon?!? Only poor people live in goshiwons! <- Netizen commentary
*So what if they delay their rent payment for three months on purpose? No way~! It can’t happen! Everyone who lives in a goshiwon are good-hearted. They have a conscience, unlike those rich chaebols. ^^ <- more commentary
*Wouldn't rent rise up to 360,000 won if they support up to 360,000 won while average rent is currently 200,000 won? No way!! Would owners raise rent just because residents can get support? That would make other people suffer, you know? <- More commentary
*The mayor is implementing the plan because he believes in people’s good hearts. No single citizen will take advantage of it and only those in need will get the benefits for sure <- more commentary
*Also, they can experimentally use 15.7 billion won for that and if it doesn’t seem to work well, they can just stop. ^^ People will forget about it anyway but they will only remember the Mayor’s good heart. Isn’t it worth investing 15.7 billion won? <-more commentary

 

NETIZENS RESPONCES/COMMENTS

 

Yong Whuy Kwon:

Chung Mong-joon Jr. who knows our national trait and Mayor Park Won-soon who doesn’t.

 

Lee KangJoo:

They curse at President Park so much for increasing taxes. Yet they remain silent about someone who blindly drains tax money.

 

Carl F Lee:

If you criticize Park Won-soon, you are just irrational. You are just a stubborn idiot. You are just an Ilbe bug. You just come from the upper echelon. You are just lying…Just whatever bad. Who cares about the reason? It is blasphemy to criticize him. He is such a saint who should not be put down. Even pesticide turns good when it is related to him. His parachute appointment is righteous. Everything Oh Se-hoon did well is all Park Won-soon’s achievement. The Korea Housing Corporation’s loan that was already planned to come in was due to Park Won’soon’s effort. When our Mayor Park does volunteer work carrying briquettes, only his face becomes dirty while his hands remain clean.

 

Sunwoo Hwang:

I’m tired of his commoner cos-play…Unfortunately, Chung Mong-joon Jr. is on a winning rampage in this season, too… This first morning in a long holiday break, I’m reminded of the class president fellow who gave out hamburgers to us in elementary school. Everyone, get lots of welfare.

 

Bongkeun Kim:

Chung Mong-joon Jr. pointed out the state of public awareness and faulty national trait while Park Won-soon who is also well aware of it exploited it to his advantage. That’s why he is such a scary person. If you look at his political steps, he does things that make him look good rather than working for citizens. For example, he gives out warm meals and sleeping bags to the homeless when he should help them get motivated and do some work on their own. Why would they ever work then? He tries to implement these wacky welfare programs and who pays the tax money for that? If we have more and more people like him in our country, it is only a matter of time before we become like Sweden or Greece. Isn’t North Korea at the top when it comes to unconditional welfare and free stuff? It seems there are increasingly more people who undermine our nation established by the hard-working generation who achieved industrialization. The mayor seems to maintain a close relationship with the UPP rep Lee Jeong-hee and his moves are going more and more ‘North’.

 

SangChun Park:

You really made your post frustrate readers effectively. I completely agree.

 

ì´ì§€í•™:

If you see that ignorant people got fooled by this bastard’s cos-play and let him serve two consecutive terms, it seems absurd to just acknowledge them for having different values and perspectives.

 

OhYoung Hwang:

Park Won-soon is a disaster for Seoul.

 

ì´ì§€í•™:

I really hate to see that monkey bastard.

 

한사랑:

Wow, when we heard that Seoul city will install ondol [heated floors] and give out free smart phones for the homeless, to a friend I was like “Wow, at this rate, wouldn’t the city also pay their rent with tax money?†as a joke. That has become a reality…kekeke

 

Paul TaeMin Jin:

It seems like we are seeing the US in the 1920s. While it is a problem that some politicians waste our tax money for the policies implemented as they please and they should be held accountable, I don’t think he is a commie.

 

Carl F Lee:

Seoul citizens, stay alert not to pitifully miss any chance to get back your tax money through abrupt welfare giveaways. Delay paying various taxes, fines, rents, tuition, etc. for at least 3 months. Make sure to attend any events that the Mayor of Seoul attends. Especially go to those events with the phrases including ‘sharing’, ‘youth’, ‘good’, ‘hope’, ‘green’, ‘half-price’, ‘twice’, and ‘alienated’. Attend them steadily and keep whining. If the Mayor feels like it, he will give out billions of won on the spot. Good payers cannot take advantage of this. Only these noobs make such a mistake.

 

Geun Woo Kim:

Sure, give us welfare just as much taxes as we have paid. But please do not embezzle or waste our tax money doing pointless things such as digging the ground [Four Rivers Project] or natural resources diplomacy.

 

[Kaleidoscope]

BACKSTORY (NEW TOPIC)

 

Who should get the apples?

 

- There were 10 apples that could be shared.

- 10 people got together to decide how to distribute the apples

- A said it would be good to give more apples to the one who has none because he already has a lot of apples.

- Then B said since it is unfair that some people get more than others, everyone should “equally†share the apples regardless of how many apples they already have.

- A strongly opposed the idea, saying that the most starved person will get less than they deserve

- Most people couldn’t understand what A was saying, and supported B’s method that distributes the apples “equallyâ€.

- Soon they began distributing apples equally to everyone regardless of how many apples they already have, as B suggested.

- As each person got one additional apple, the one who had 5 apples ended up having 6 apples. B with 3 apples ended up having 4 apples. C who previously had none had one apple.

- A could not feel much difference between 5 and 6 apples. He even forgot the fact that he got an additional apple. A also had many melons and tomatoes.

- B ate one of the apples, saved another apple and made jam with the other two apples, which was exchanged for blueberries.

- On the other hand, C who had nothing before ate the apple as soon as he got it in order to relieve his hunger. He had nothing again. A said he knew it was going to happen and suggested to give more apples to C from now on.

- B got upset and said that C gets less than before for sure but thanks to equal distribution, C can get apples while keeping his pride

- A said if C’s “pride†is the problem, he can get apples through home delivery so that nobody else knows it. He added it is truly “equal†to give more apples to C who’s starving.

- C who was supporting B’s claims nodded at A’s remark. However, although B understood A, he didn’t want to give more apples to C.

- B said to C. “Hey! Where is your pride? Although you don’t have any apples, you and I become ‘equal’ when you get the same amount of as me!†C was shaken up.

- Even though the number of apples he gets decreased, C at least liked the fact that he didn’t have to apply for apples as everyone began to get the same number of apples.

- However, C said to B. “As A said, wouldn’t it be okay to get apples through home delivery? In the past, I used to buy bread with extra apples. Now I only have apples for my own minimal consumption.

- B desperately said to C, looking him in the eyes. “Think about it, C. This is not a matter of money but ‘feelings’. I’m not doing this to get more apples for me. It is to protect your pride!â€

- C was hesitant for a moment. He nodded to B again after all. With the majority vote, they ended up distributing apples equally again. A was frustrated. And…

- A began to throw away apples he got from distribution because he had more than enough. B went around persuading other people to share the same number for other fruits as well. C ended up malnourished as he was relying on a single apple.

- Right now in the Republic of Korea, there are apples called “welfareâ€. The number of these apples is limited. We all have to ponder about the most rational and effective way to distribute those apples.

- You have the right of choice, and you suffer the consequences accordingly. We need a rational mind to genuinely consider the socially vulnerable.

 

 

NETIZENS RESPONCES/COMMENTS

 

박진우:

It seems the problems will be solved as soon as B dies.

 

진유철:

You made a good analogy for the free school lunch issue. But I don’t think they would understand it even if you put it like that…

 

ê¹€ ë™ì˜:

My thoughts about the common arguments from those who support free school lunch.

 

1. The government wasted tons of money for the Four Rivers Project and natural resources diplomacy. Why make a fuss about mere kids’ lunches now?

 

Let’s assume that it all failed. So what? We might be able to provide free school lunch for a few years with that money. But isn’t that already spilt milk? Is there any way to get the money back? What about free school lunch? We are currently spending our national budget for that. The argument has no practical point.

 

2. It will work as long as politicians stop being corrupt.

 

Has corruption existed just for the last couple of decades? It’s been there for a few thousands of years. It doesn’t cease to exist despite our efforts such as implementing audits. We should definitely eradicate corruption, but it is a very difficult task that needs a lot more time. In the current situation, it is hard to see improvements in a short period of time. If someone is sick with 42c degree temperature, his doctor should first give him medicine that works fast. However, according to those guys’ argument, it’s like just giving him advice that he should not eat too much fatty food and should warm his body and take enough rest.

 

3. Why are you trying to make kids starve?

 

When there was no free lunch for everyone, the kids who really needed help were already getting help for a long time. Then, some greedy people messed it up. Now the kids eat lunch that is like some livestock feed.

 

4. Europe is like this and that.

 

Go to Europe then. This is Korea. Does Korea have lots of natural resources and capital? We have a different environment from them in the first place. There is a saying that if a crow-tit tries to walk like a stork, he will break his legs. We may solve some problems if we apply tax rates on par with Europe. However, you saw how people reacted to tax increases this time, didn’t you? Everyone was saying “Common people are suffering to death…Increase taxes only on the richâ€. High-income earners already pay up to 38% in income taxes. Will they remain silent if taxes increase only on them? Isn’t it exploitative? And if that happens, consumption and investment by high-income earners could shrink.

 

Carl F Lee:

Now, I wait for the Enlightened Citizens who say it would’ve been all okay only if there was no Four Rivers Project. They wouldn’t want to answer my questions. How is one-time project budget comparable to a recurring welfare budget? Why did Roh Mu-hyun and Kim Dae-jung administrations not implement free school lunch when they didn’t even do anything like the Four Rivers Project then? Kya, I lost. I can’t win over their enlightened logic.

 

ì´ì¢…ì°¬:

It is something that shows politics is ruined when they appeal to emotions instead of rationality.

 

Jaewon Lee:

Honestly, nothing is free in this world. Unless some aliens bring apples to Earth from the outer space, everything has a price. So it doesn’t work when they approach these matters with emotions.

 

기훈김:

Such a good post after a long while. I like a well-thought-out post like this much better than copy-and-paste posts from other sites, Free Space or Joyride, which often make your page get flak honestly. I hope you keep making more good posts.

 

Yeonseo Kim:

No matter how clearly you explain it like this, you can’t make those blind and deaf people understand it.

 

강유ì„:

Now, let’s hear what those fashionable leftists [who think it is merely cool to pose as leftist] have to say with regards to Lee Myung-bak’s Four Rivers Project and natural resources diplomacy.

 

Travis Fresco Ryoo:

They should give apologies rather than apples. [‘Apology’ and ‘apple’ in Korean have the same pronunciation.]

 

Lenny Choi:

The persisting problem is that although they are supposed to understand two if you teach them one, they can’t even digest one. It’s pointless for those who would spew ignorant comments like “Then can’t we just impose more taxes on the rich for free school lunch?â€

 

[ETB5]

Tell me this is a joke   :

*he installed heated floors (ondol) for the homeless and gave out free smart phones (the argument here is that thanks to the heated floors and free phones, the homeless did not have to work due to the fact that in the heated rooms they were able to get fast wifi and free meals)

[Kashi]

 

ì´ìƒí˜„: This is all the dinosaurs’ fault… If they had died in Korea, Korea could’ve been an oil-rich country and we would be enjoying such an easy life. We are living like this because dinosaurs died in some weird places. Dinosaurs who lived in the Korean peninsula, you SoBs… All you fucking bastards did was leaving footprints and bailing. It’s all because of you dinosaurs…

[shaishaix]

I'm in here to applaud you for providing username.

 

thank. that was one hectic dicussion

[Qri]

Tell me this is a joke   :

 

v

Keep in mind that many netizen comments in this article were written with heavy sarcasm, which won’t be pointed out every time to our readers.

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[CreepyUnicornz]

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