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Aquamaraqua

SNSD, 2NE1, Big Bang, SHINee and other Artist's Info on WIKI being DELETED

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A group of k-pop article editors have been removing a lot of information from various k-pop articles the past few days in order to make these articles "fit Wikipedia's guidelines". The most notable one would be what mess they have made of the South Korean Idol Group lists:

 


 

Not only have they cut down information and have reset the formatting to only include names of idol groups, but they have also removed entire names of groups who have no Wikipedia pages with the basis that these groups "are not notable" and should have Wikipedia pages to be included in this list.     I have read Wikipedia's "notable policy" and it doesn't specify whether or not bands can be mentioned. Notability should only apply to articles created, not groups mentioned. Also, they have kept some very questionably "notable" groups (like She'z) but have failed to include other notable groups like A.Kor. That makes no sense. 

 

They also are taking the liberty to completely remove ACTUAL SONGS from an artists' discography due to them "not being notable": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture#Charting_no_longer_sole_criteria_for_songs.2Falbums

 

Some of the stupidest things I've read: 

 

"I didn't know about the "List of Kpop group" before, but now that I briefly looked at it, some of those info definitely has to be taken out." What the hell are you doing editing k-pop pages then? 

 

"And we definitely need to remove "maknae", "visual", and asinine stuff like that from their roles. Been doing those as I notice them. Those aren't even things."

 

Maknae isn't a thing? Okay.

 


 

The worst thing of all is, though, they are being extremely exclusive with sources they consider "viable". Allkpop I know is not the best source to keep information in check, but they have narrowed it down to only 4 major Korean news sites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture#Clarification_about_Korean_sources

 

This is completely insane. Wikipedia is a place where you find information. Nobody takes Wikipedia this seriously when reading the information either. It's not an academic source by any means so I don't see why this amount of excessive monitoring/removal of information is needed.

 

I tried reasoning with these people but they have said "You say many people are unhappy, but no one's sharing their opinion, other than a few people bitching and sniping every so often."


 

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD! You CAN talk to these people. They are NOT wiki admins or staff. Just click their names or edit the page and type your comment here:


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Ugh. Trying to tighten a screw with a hammer.

 

There is definitely an issue with the validity with many Korean idol groups' Wikipedia pages. Also, a lot of current information does need to be cleaned up and referenced properly. 

 

However, this is too much. This is "conforming to the rules just to conform" Just correct the terrible grammar, the opinionated sources and the invalid facts that litter these pages. That's all. Stop removing valid information. It's counter-productive.

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Well it's true "maknae" isn't a position. But visual definitely is.

 

  • Naver and Nate are search engines, and they are news story aggregators - the stories they publish are not their own. They cop them from other sites. As such, they in themselves are not sources. Links to the original stories are sometimes at the bottom of the copied articles. If not, the authors' emails are often present, and from the email addresses you can tell what sites the stories originated at. Sometimes when a website retracts or edits a story, the changes do not filter down to the version posted on Naver/Nate. Long story short - Naver and Nate are not reliable sources.
  • Any source with "sports" in its name is a tabloid. They are not reliable sources.
  • Entertainment websites - which is most of what is cited in kpop articles, directly or indirectly via translation - often fall under shared ownership with the same entertainment companies that run kpop groups, or are part of similar such consortia. Stories that appear on those sites are frequently not independently-created; they are intentional promotion for kpop artists. You and I, as editors, cannot tell which stories are legitimate in response to public interest and which are paid promotion. As such, they are not really reliable sources and much of what they report should be considered self-puffery, trivial, if not outright false. Koreans don't really consider them reliable or regard their contents as real news.

 

This is damn stupid though. Those ARE the places where you most get info about idols.

 

Who the hell uses "The Dong-a IlboThe Hankyoreh,The Chosun Ilbo, and JoongAng Ilbo"???

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They're probably butthurt due to nobody donating cash to keep Wiki up, they even started to use pop-ups to notify people to donate  :imstupid: .

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Ugh. Trying to tighten a screw with a hammer.

 

There is definitely an issue with the validity with many Korean idol groups' Wikipedia pages. Also, a lot of current information does need to be cleaned up and referenced properly. 

 

However, this is too much. This is "conforming to the rules just to conform" Just correct the terrible grammar, the opinionated sources and the invalid facts that litter these pages. That's all. Stop removing valid information. It's counter-productive.

^^^^^^

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Wikipedia is insubstantial anyhow. The vast majority of 'information' on kpop groups is messy and inaccurate, with questionable citations. The best-selling girl group page has been edited many times by yg stans, in a bid to devalue genuine success, in lieu of their quartet.

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Wikipedia is getting worse and has been for a while especially as editors and admins driven by personal agendas have been getting more influence and power.

 

The place is lost without a complete overhaul.

 

If their proposals for reliable sources was upheld then almost everything about Korean entertainment would have to be deleted.

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This is ridiculous.

 

But the only thing I actually agree with is with "maknae" not being a position. I never really understood why people listed being the maknae as a role in the group..... like, I understand visual, face, or center, and of course there's leader, vocalist, dancer, actor/actress, and entertainer, but maknae...? Being the youngest in the group has no functionality whatsoever. That's like saying Sunny's role in SNSD is to be a danshin or an aegyo member or something. What... lol.

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They're probably butthurt due to nobody donating cash to keep Wiki up, they even started to use pop-ups to notify people to donate  :imstupid: .

They aren't part of Wiki's staff. Regular users like you and I.

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"This will mean probable removal for most of those non-promo'd album tracks that charted digitally, unless they have some exceptional notability as evidenced by significant coverage in reliable independent sources. Same for albums and EPs; especially applicable where there is an article for both a notable song and its not-separately-notable EP. One or the other can have an article, but is not needed for both in most cases. Some of this trimming is already being done with Girls' Generation songs"

 

So if a non-title track charts without a significant amount of coverage you can't record it? jfc

 

They shouldn't remove it. Gaon has already changed to the Top 100. Unless someone has recorded it elsewhere there will be no other way to retrieve those numbers.

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Wikipedia is the worst thing you could possibly use to find things out about certain artists, musicians etc.

Not to mention some information are not up to date or downright untrue.

Anyone can go on there and edit things to suit their specifications.

 

As for "maknae" its not a position.

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Wikipedia is the worst thing you could possibly use to find things out about certain artists, musicians etc.

Not to mention some information are not up to date or downright untrue.

Anyone can go on there and edit things to suit their specifications.

 

As for "maknae" its not a position.

Which makes it all the more ridiculous as to why they're taking this so seriously.

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I use Wikipedia a lot to read general information about kpop but the quality is not equal across pages. Popular groups seem to have better pages and more uptodate information. Apparently some fans spend efforts. Anyway they have some stupid rules on Wikipedia and some people seem to be on a roll to delete "non notable" information as if it were superior missionary work. It takes a lot of time to write decent stuffs with good references but only seconds to delete on a whim on the grounds of following certain stupid guidelines (that have little or no respect for what the readers actually want. I can't)

 

I don't see how they keep staying #7 on the internet. At this rate of info elimination the whole website will soon fall out of relevancy.

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Sadly wikipedia in general is going down the shitter lately. The owner has no backbone anymore and doesn't enforce any of the ideals that once made wiki so great.

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someone will come back and fix it

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Wow. That page was my main source for knowing what groups had debuted and were about to debut. This completely rids me of a need to even visit Wikipedia anymore. Ridiculous.

 

Maknae may not be a position, but sometimes idols introduce themselves as the maknae so it counts. Even if there is no job with the title, it's a valid title.

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i don't use wiki for kpop anyway. but it's essential for others tho.. and having wiki pages for groups are important to store some high achievements.

last time i check, the page for snsd tokyo dome is in check for deletion too.. 

 

wiki is so messed up.

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That why in school they tell you not to use Wikipedia. Good old Encarta was a hundred times more reliable than Wikipedia.

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What the fuck Ive used that list alot.

 

This is just gross!

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someone will come back and fix it

They're not allowing anyone to. We, kpop fans, must take action otherwise no one will.

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They're probably butthurt due to nobody donating cash to keep Wiki up, they even started to use pop-ups to notify people to donate  :imstupid: .

 

The funny thing they actually have a shit-load of $ sustaining them, contrary to what they are claiming.

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