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KoreaxxLove

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  1. We'll agree to disagree about all that then. I clearly said what I thought the post really was about in that post. Honestly, your comment made me listen to a lot of Shirley, and she was really great when she was younger, but I agree she usually sang in an easier range. But when she was younger, she actually didn't go for the same style she did when she was older, and her singing was a lot more nuanced--which is nice. I gave Shirley an edge in the comment, but it wasn't really an edge based on technique, so to speak, just that Shirley seemed to sing in a more refined style than Whitney, and that's just what I prefer. And because Shirley managed to keep her voice in better health (not a technique issue, obviously). But honestly, Shirley's singing from the early sixties and later is very different. I remember reading an article one time where she said she blew her voice in the mid-to-late eighties and studied under an opera singer and was advising that that's what someone should do if they want to sing well/keep their voice. Maybe that's the reason she changed her style so much. I don't know, but I do think she lost a ton of clarity and nuance in her singing and generally sounded more hollow, but darker. That's my take. Of course, it was in a much more limited range. I do think Whitney's great. You know that I consistently use her as a good example, and honestly I thought both Whitney and Shirley were great from the beginning. It was literally this thread and the people following it that tore me off thinking their singing was great--Whitney because of her use of chest voice and Shirley because of her tongue retraction. But that's a story for a different day. I love both of them. And just to clear things up, I don't know that I do have a solid number one, greatest of all time singer. Even the concept of it's weird to me. That being said, there are people I consider right at the top. Yes, Judy is one of them, and she's probably my personal favorite. Judy has shown very great coordination, just as Shirley has, even in a similar range, but also had a better lower register and generally (in my opinion) put her technique to better use musically. Shirley in the early-to-late 60s was a much better singer in that regard than she was later (in my opinion). Did she even sing past D5 regularly after that? She certainly did before--and very well--but she seemed to lower the key and go for dark, loud notes after that. And I'm not saying they were bad, but they weren't as clear, were a bit overdone, etc. in my opinion. She also started actually singing less--if you know what I mean. You might get 50-75% of a song with just her talking most parts just to blast the big note. It's dramatic and thrilling at times, but her singing was just really great in her younger years. I might be shorting her some years, but most of what I listened to was from that time range, so that's why I'm stressing the 1960s. That's not unique to Shirley in that her style shifted. If you look at Judy and Shirley and Ethel and Barbra (and a whole host of other singers), they were all actually much more similar starting out than they ended up being. Not saying they were all the same, of course, but they were more similar, and some had radical style changes. Ethel was a lot more bearable when she was younger, too. This is not bad singing. These ladies all have impressive qualities. And they all have flaws, too, of course. If what I said about TiO offends you that badly, I do apologize. It's not so much that I'm attacking what they're hearing. I think the difference that they're pointing out is clear. But I've said from the beginning that I don't know enough about opera to know whether or not what they're blaming the difference on is accurate. If that makes sense. I was buying into what they were saying, and then I saw how they were acting, how none of them were posting their own singing, and how the singing they did post was either two short to analyze, or honestly not that good (by their standards, and even compared to the people they were trashing). Then Philippe (who honestly is easier to believe because I have heard his singing, and he does have credentials) basically said it's all hogwash. Even he doesn't disagree that there's a difference in those singers; it's just that his argument that the recording quality/equipment had an impact and that the terminology they used/techniques they described weren't accurate was convincing. I also didn't like their opera-pop comparisons for the most part because some of them honestly sounded like a stretch. But I've always been open-minded about this. That's why I asked your opinion on it. The singers I do like I generally liked and regarded as good well before I ever knew you or listened to TiO. They did give me some ground to stand on in describing why--sure--but literally almost no one in the vocals community was giving a lot of good singers enough credit--including people like Whitney. This thread (as far as I can tell) single-handedly destroyed the reputations of really great singers--like Barbra. Yes, I've been guilty of overhyping and undervaluing some singers. (No, I don't think YHE is the best anymore, lol, and yes, Whitney is better than I gave her credit for two years ago--which is saying something because I still thought she was great. But, all of these singers that I like tended to have pieces of what I now consider to be good technique in contemporary music.) And there were some singers I thought were great who turned out to be better than people were giving them credit for--like Barbra and Lee Sun Hee. People tore Barbra down, and when comparing her to the singers that they were propping up, Barbra was better. And so when I made claims like, "Barbra's the GOAT" or whatever, yes, they were childish, but it's always better to remember what they were said in reference to and what the context was. This thread and the blog with it did rank singers, and that's the environment I came into. If you're being fair--and I think you can be--it's no wonder that's what my attitude was. We all had a proclivity to rank singers here, and that's honestly what made this thread/blog interesting to a lot of people, and it lost a lot of traction when the ranking system went away. I'm old enough now to agree that it is juvenile to an extent, but I'm also not going to budge that when I came in saying Barbra was the GOAT (or whatever) that was a fair assessment when the people being propped up were Sohyang, Hyorin, and Younha. The same thing goes for LSH for most of these people. I'm not looking to debate the style thing here. I'm just giving you my take and my opinion because honestly I'm not sure that you know where I stand. And I still think that you honestly could have come to my defense sometimes, lol. You know I had a point with some of that even if I didn't quite know why yet. Honestly, that's one of my biggest gripes with you because you didn't seem to care that these singers were getting ragged (Whitney, Shirley, Barbra), and you didn't care when I defended them, but you certainly did start caring what I said when I started talking about TiO. Then you labeled yourself as a crusader, and that really seemed disingenuous to me. Long story short, it didn't ever make sense to me that you came after me when the way I thought was a lot closer to the way you thought. Honestly, if you had come in a bit less aggressive with an attitude like, "I can agree with this, but don't you think that you should reconsider this ... " we could have avoided all of this. Yes, I know I haven't always been diplomatic with other people, either, but part of this was because I knew I was right (to an extent), and I'm honestly tired of always getting ragged on. And that's an uphill battle here with my name literally being listed as untrustworthy in the thread. Part of it is inevitable--I get that people on a Kpop thread who like Kpop singers (and some who are great in their styles) don't want to hear that the people they like don't really match up to people like Barbra/Shirley. But at the same time, I was never treated fairly here, and that bugs me because the people who originally came after me were making bizarre claims about Kpop singers having squillo, the ring, and everything else ripped straight from opera, and that's just as bizarre or even moreso than the most bizarre things I ever said. And some people who clown my posts honestly still believe that. My track record has been caricatured here, but honestly, I've been more right than many people. And I don't mean to toot horn--I've been embarrassingly wrong, too--but there are only a handful of people here--you included--who have a real background and a real interest in going beyond just reactionary takes. And I never had a problem with you until you came out of left field at me, and I even think you could read the shock in my first message because you were so rude for no reason to me. That's how I saw it, and I honestly thought you were above that. And since then, we've learned where we disagree (and honestly where we do agree), and there have been a lot of bad arguments made trying to prove one another wrong when we would have made a lot more headway if we had started on common ground. We might not ever agree 100%, and that's honestly fine by me. But this constant being at each other's throats is draining, so I'd really just like for us to either ignore one another if we can't get along, or start with a blank slate. I'm willing to do either. I have tried in the past to do that here (which you tried to deride, but I honestly just thought with Ahmin gone, I might be able to reboot with a fresh start), and I've tried to do it with you. But I really don't have time to argue, much less argue here where people who don't even know what we're talking about clown my posts just because they're mine. I do apologize for attacking your appearance. I hardly remember what you look like honestly, and I'm not a model myself, lol. You just really made a lot of personal jabs in that post from April, and I thought I'd return the favor. But it's stupid, and it's immature and honestly irrelevant. And I put my picture up with Sean Hannity not to look big and bad in a Kpop thread but because my husband said it's a handsome picture of me, and it was just one of the first important moments in my career, lol. I was a newspaper reporter at the time--I'm the editor now--and it was just one of my first big scoops to interview Sean Hannity. The dinner was a formal affair, lol. Suits were required. I literally bought that suit that night just for that event, and I haven't worn it since. So, no, it's not to look big and bad--these are the kinds of stupid arguments that are honestly draining, and no one is ever going to win. My job is just really busy these days, and I don't have time to argue things that weren't even the point to begin with. About Lara's awful tone--I don't see that as an insult, honestly. She sounds like she has cotton stuck in her throat to me. It's not a good sound, but other people might think it's beautiful. I'd say the same about Ethel in that I don't think she's got a pleasant tone, either, but I do like her. Someone might hate Judy's tone or Shirley's tone. That's fine. I would never see that as an insult worth harping on. And the therapy comment, well, lol. You have to see that from my side. You're telling me what my motives are, what my agenda is, how I owe all of this to you--when I know for a fact that it just isn't true. You don't have to believe that--but try seeing it from my side and assuming that's true, and see if that doesn't at least make it make more sense to you. But that's the thing--this moved away from vocals a long time ago to arguments like you being a narcissist, me being a thief, etc. etc. It's honestly just stupid. On both sides. I agree we should just let people make up their mind about vocals--and again, I'm open to talking in a civil manner about things, but I don't have any interest in a discussion where the sole goal is for you to try and make me think that the people I like aren't good. If you want to compare someone like Shirley and Whitney with me, fine. That's interesting. Or even thoughts on other singers. But all of the juvenile arguments don't have my interest, and they haven't for a long time. Comparing how singers are different fits your style argument better anyway, so maybe that's more agreeable for you, too. Anyway, I know this post is long. I hope it clears the air a bit because I think you're just as tired of it as I am. We don't ever have to be friends or talk, that's fine. Or we can, and that's better if we're trying to exist in the same space here, lol. Your last post here is pretty civil. Things like that are fine. Oh, and I should have mentioned this before, but I just scrolled up to read your post again, and I never meant to say that Kay taught Mahalia how to sing. The comment was that when she did work with her, she did have things that she wanted to coach her on which was interesting to me. I recently bought what appears to be the be-all-end-all 3 CD collection of all Kay Thompson recordings, and it even has a duet with Judy--which is cool. If you were ever interested in Kay (which I'm assuming you're probably not), I do plan on trying to get some of these songs on YouTube. I've started collecting vinyls and biographies of the singers I like because that's really what I'm interested in these days, and there are quite a few songs from some of these people that aren't online. I really want to get them online, too, but I don't know how to do that, lol. I've got some great Judy records, one of Shirley, a few of Barbra, and then I got a Songs of America record that has Mary Martin, Robert Goulet, and Mahalia on there. A lot of stuff worth sharing that might interest both of us, or at least some other people, if we can all get along. These singers I talk about are more than just a passing interest to me, and my heart's not going to be broken if someone turns out to be better. That's really juvenile, and I moved past that the first 100 times it happened. I do think they're the best, and I have my reasons for that, but I'm interested in them way beyond vocals, and I've spent real time (and money) studying them. tl;dr Can we be friends, or just ignore each other? Because this is draining, and I think we'd actually learn more from/about each other or at least get along if we tried being civil. I'm willing to forgive and move on if you are.
  2. That's exactly why you choose to engage here because you have groupies who like everything you say no matter what, and you have people who neg anything I say vocally, no matter what. And about that blog--you rag me for discounting great singers/those who've put in effort, etc. when Ahmin literally had a whole blog that was trashing the reputations of hard-working singers (some who were also big into teaching/vocal pedagogy). (And when you call people like Kay, who taught Frank and was the vocal coach for MGM, something like white-fried, how is that not insulting someone who put in a lot of time and effort?) It's only a problem when I do it for some reason, and we both know that while you think there are many things I'm wrong about--which is fine--there are some that we'd agree I'm right about, too. Moreso than other people. It's just because you don't like me or how I learned the information that you only choose to harp on things. Like Song Chang Sik and now Judy Garland, when you're never going to change my mind about either of them. You were the first one to get cross in this exchange when we were talking about Yang Hee Eun two years ago--so much so that I told you then that you were being unnecessarily rude/hateful. You set the tone for the conversation. You've insulted singers for non-vocal things--like calling Betty a hag--etc. You obviously did make fun of the post where I said my dad had cancer. I literally said that that was the point of the post, and you chose to cherry pick some information from it to rag me. This was before I made any comments on your appearance. And you did it out of the blue for no reason when I wasn't even talking to you. Like you were trying to make some type of sport out of it while coming to rag Judy, when again, you're not going to change my mind about her. Shirley Bassey is no doubt a great singer as well, and I would say she's close to the top. But that doesn't change my mind about Garland. You're glossing over the reason why I consider them better. It's not just because they are chestier. It's because they're able to sing in three registers in a connected and coordinated way, tend to have better clarity, bigger resonance, more depth, and stronger dynamics. As you pointed out, many of the people I like and consider great don't all have the same level of chest coordination (which I never claimed they did). That's not the only thing I'm looking at. (They also don't all sing in the same styles, always sing with depth, etc. etc.) But I do believe that if a singer is able to coordinate well through their lower, mid, and upper, with a good grasp on the aforementioned abilities, that they are better than someone like Beyonce who may have more ease in the upper extent of her range (hitting notes that are only passable based on style) but falls short in many other categories--for stylistic reasons or not. The reason I think you overhype David isn't because I think his upper register is terrible; I'll admit it's better than 99% of pop tenors--it's that the rest of the voice doesn't add up. His tone is inconsistent when signing, he can often be uncomfortable when singing lower, he doesn't have great clarity, etc. Same for Lara--who, if you ask me, doesn't even have a great upper range to save her. I don't consider singing efficiently in pop just being able to hit a two-second note. It has to be incorporated correctly into the piece and the music and not be a jolting change from one register to another. Judy, like everyone, had her flaws, exacerbated by her extreme drug abuse--yes, even at 28. Judy's life was almost halfway over by that point, and her doctors basically said it was a miracle she survived the last five or so years of her life, much less went out to sing. They would literally carry her onto the stage sometimes because she couldn't walk--and sometimes she could, but that didn't mean her health, specifically her vocal health, was good. She also had very good strengths, notably a solid voice from the top of the second to the bottom of the fifth, incredible resonance and power, good dynamics, and the ability to use her voice in a commanding way musically. Judy wasn't an Ethel Merman or Shirley Bassey who blasted all of her notes; her singing was more nuanced and fluid, with her big notes often having more clarity and "eumph" to them (and more depth than Merman's). That's not to say that when I say I consider Judy one of the best that I think she's blowing Ethel and Shirley out of the water or that they didn't do some things better than she did. Of course they did, and when I'm comparing these singers, I'm not drawing extreme distinctions between them. Shirley and Judy were great friends, and I enjoy listening to both of them, but in my view, Shirley was no Garland. In yours, Judy was no Bassey. I wouldn't consider either of them like Raitt or Goulet. You would Shirley. That's fine. I did attempt to start a series of like the greats against each other, by the way, with Shirley and Whitney. I even took down my popular versus videos for the most part and tried to focus on more positive videos and vocal analyses that don't tear anyone down. I do think it's a better look, but honestly the views suffer a lot, and it's honestly not worth putting hours into a video that 200 people watch. I haven't put out a new video in a long time anyway, though, because I've been terribly busy lately--and again, it's just not a priority in my life right now.
  3. It's not slander when it's true. You can literally hear Biden saying multiple racist comments in that video. Lol, retarded. That's exactly what the Biden campaign is trying to do against Trump. It was the Trump campaign that first started this line of questioning, and Biden supporters are trying to flip it, lol. Nice way to dodge the blatantly racist statements made by Biden there, by the way. Biden's the one with the history of creepily touching kids (but that's not the point--his racism is): Trump's obviously not stupid. He's a highly-competent individual who has built a multi-billion dollar enterprise. Dumb people don't do that.
  4. Joe Biden has a racism problem. I'm surprised Kamala would support a candidate like him.
  5. ^Look at this amazingly crazy false dichotomy. So you're trying to tell us that YOU sustaining notes in the upper fifth is equivalent to what David Phelps and Beyonce do singing in their full ranges? LOL? because you called them "squeaky", right? I'll gladly demonstrate again in public here when you give me 20 seconds singing like David Phelps up to C5 to demonstrate that your notes are equivalent to their "squeaky" singing, and I'll post again. Me saying Beyonce/David are better because they sing in a bright mix is NOT the equivalent of you sustaining notes in the upper fifth, but you tried. Entitled as hell to think I need to post again for you when you just played a word game off of it while being too scared to criticize it, showing exactly how you'd react again if I even bothered. I'll tell you again, yes I can chest coordinate in the mid. You realize you're the only guy who had an issue with the two clips I posted last year, when multiple people upvoted it and dozens listened to it while not negging my post in any way? Regular users in this thread have already heard me in DMs, as in sing whole songs/full recordings. Some have literally seen my face in video singing. Yes, me with my "low self esteem" singing in a video. Let's look at how fast you jumped on Ahmin and Kyuhyun again when literally no one asked for your opinion on them "bright constricted pop sound" LOL, and for David Phelps/Beyonce you call them "squeaky". How pathetic does this comment come across? "PFFFFFT BRIGHT CONSTRICTED SOUND LIKE AHMIN AND KYUHYUN? PFFT hOLd mY bEeR I CAN DO IT. KYUHYUN? PFFFFFFFFT SIMPLE" You're so quick to describe what all of them do in their singing, yet in almost a year I haven't even heard a single word being used to describe what I did in those two clips in terms of assessment/technique, it's almost like deep inside you know I demonstrated the technique which you yourself called "efficient pop singing". Remember this? Yeah I remember it. I already demonstrated what you called "how men should sound efficiently in pop". I demonstrated up an E4 to sustained D4, and then F#4 to sustained A4 and still you think I didn't demonstrate. And woah according to your dumbass logic, a Metropolitan opera singer has confirmed it too and you LOVE singers from the Metropolitan, so what are you still whining about exactly? Robert Goulet isn't even "pop" singing there, dunce. It's traditional theater technique from decades ago which makes sense to compare to your traditional theater/pop singers but not current pop singers. By the way Frank Sinatra is better than Robert Goulet even though Robert Goulet uses more chest coordination. Sinatra is a fairly advanced singer. I already told you, it's not about amount of cHeSt cOorDiNaTiOn that makes a singer automatically "better". Nice strawman argument though, as usual. Post your David Phelps so-called "squeaky" demonstration. Clearly you think you can do it with your false dichotomy that anything bright mix related must be like you sustaining upper fifth octave notes, and of course PFFFFT Kyuhyun? So easy for you to sUpPoRt it, right? Still no more singing to prove any of your claims. Yes, you just can't accept that we view things differently, and that's why YOU keep initiating conversation that goes nowhere with me. I didn't rip any information off you, lol. You're not the one who introduced me to the concept of singing with a high or low larynx, or to the notion that low larynx singing was desirable in some styles lol. This is all just pointless. I've disagreed with people, and we've thrown insults back and forth, but at the end of the day, you're the only one who's hung up on it. I don't agree with Ahmin, but we get along for the most part, and I don't rag him every chance I get. This is just stupid. I didn't see your outrage when someone was literally talking about how bad they thought his singing was here just recently. I said I thought he was doing well in his style and what he wanted to sound like. I'm not this monster you're trying to make me out to be. My political affiliation has absolutely nothing to do with this. It's stupid to keep bringing it up over and over. You've ragged on a number of people who have put work into building careers and learning vocal pedagogy. Stop acting like it's unique to me. I'm not having the whole "ripped off" argument again when I literally watched informational videos and incorporated that information into my views. That's not plagiarism. It's learning. But you think you're some great keeper of this knowledge and want to establish yourself as such because you got received more highly for being the "opera guy" in the thread. When that information became more widespread, you lashed out trying to defend it because you weren't looking as special as you used to. That's all this is about. This is what you said: "the rest of what you wrote is a mess, I'm not even going to entertain a guy who tries to insult my face, or use "low self-esteem" as an insult while posting on the pinned mental health thread that you have body-image/self-esteem issue" This is the post: This might seem silly compared to what others are going through, but I've been struggling with my body image for years. I have OCD (real, life-inhibiting OCD), and I think maybe this is part of it. I've literally lost friends over this. Anyway, I don't feel ugly. I just feel not important. Like others view me less because I'm not good looking. It got better because I got a bf (literally the best-looking guy I've ever seen), and I know he loves me, but when I tell him how I feel, he just says, "You're not ugly." If I say something like, "But not handsome" or "not your type," he just says something like, "don't think too much. you're not ugly" or "but you treat me well" which really makes me think even he doesn't find me physically pleasing. And, as trivial as that sounds, it just makes me feel awful. I had gotten better for a while, but my dad was diagnosed with cancer recently, and I've just gotten really depressed. Whenever I get depressed, my mind just focuses on my appearance, and I'll usually lose a few friends by arguing. I just blocked a friend of four years today. I just don't know what to do. I kind of feel like my depression is really about my dad, but I don't want to think about that, so I'm deflecting it somewhere else. On the other, I really am bothered my bf won't give me any type of compliments on my appearance. Anyway, sorry, I know it's dumb. I just wanted to get it out there in hopes I will feel better. My dad's having a major surgery tomorrow, so maybe that's what triggered my depression today. I hope all y'all are okay." But yeah, let's make fun of a post I left in the mental health thread that was clearly about my dad having cancer. This is about you twisting reality to make it seem like you're in the right. You're not. You cherry-picked information from a post about my dad having cancer to insult me, among other things, in your wackjob post in April. Stop pretending like you didn't. I don't get why you're even posting that from 2019. I told you that we parted amicably, and that that's part of the reason why it makes no sense to me that you went off the rails in April. But thanks for finding the quote proving that because I was too lazy to look for it. No, I never said that what I do in the fifth is the same as what they're doing. My whole point was that it wasn't as good, so you saying that someone can sustain a note in some portion of the fifth octave is stupid because it doesn't take quality into account. That was literally my point. I'm glad you finally caught on. The whole Robert Goulet thing is absolutely stupid. By pop, I mean contemporary, as in "non-classical music." If you don't understand the terms, don't try to pick them apart because you'll end up looking stupid. This is certainly non-operatic music. You haven't demonstrated anything to me, and I've never argued that chest coordination is the sole determinant of one's ability to sing. The people I'm talking about all have varying levels of chest coordination and all have different styles but use that, among other things, in their styles to sing well. That's the point. You might not agree with my assessment, but for the last time, can you at least get my argument correct? I do focus on chest development and coordination--that part is true. But that's not all I mention. I talk about dynamics. I talk about clarity, balanced tonality throughout all three registers, being able to sing difficult phrases without bottoming out or sounding like different singers as you change registers. I've always said this. You can look back through my arguments and find that, and if has ever been unclear to you what my position was for whatever reason, there shouldn't be anymore confusion now. I draw a distinction between people like Robert Goulet and John Raitt who have extensive operatic training and in purely pop singers like Frank, Judy, Kay, Ethel of the time because their training and base are fundamentally different and have obviously influenced their styles. If you don't agree with that distinction, fine, but I've never said that they aren't great singers. The squeaky comment was honestly more for Beyonce, but it applies to David to depending on what the comparison is. Because that's the thing--all of this is relative. David's got a much better upper than most pop singers, but his voice lacks the power and clarity of Raitt's. He's knocking it out of the park compared to Kyuhyun in my view. He's also got a weak lower and middle range, is very breathy at times, and doesn't have great clarity generally speaking when he sings. I haven't spoken on your clips because they were like two-seconds long and don't really show anything. How are you going to judge someone's ability based off two short clips? How can we know how effectively you're singing if we can't hear your phrasing, dynamics, clarity, control, etc. etc. I think we can agree on that. I actually think we agree on a lot when you're not mischaracterizing my argument. But again, I never said all of this was easy for me. You did claim you had great ability to do this, so prove it. It should be simple. I'm honestly tired of going back and forth with you.
  6. You're free to add something at any time. I'm honestly not sure what I ever did to you, tbh. I thought we were good at one point, but I guess not? I don't have anything against you, so that's what really confuses me?
  7. In what way does that show he knows how to argue anything? I'm really curious to know where it looks like he's debating anything well, lol. And if that's how your AP English teacher taught you to write an argumentative essay, you really need to find a new teacher. Because he's not making any good arguments. If he tried to submit that for any real academic writing, it would be ripped apart. He's making claims he can't prove, and he knows it, lol. (Well, he could if he'd post that video, but he's not going to.) I've told him for a year that I'm not arguing vocals with him anymore, but he still comes back to try over and over. But to answer your question, we're not arguing about anything. He's trying to get me to have an argument with him, and I'm not. He wants to convince me the people I like aren't that good because he apparently has nothing better to do. It's something he's tried to do for years, and it hasn't worked yet. We've already had this argument and had basically agreed to disagree last December until he came on here like a wackjob in April completely unhinged and got deleted by the mods for how inappropriate it was. Now, apparently he's been festering for a while. I don't know. It's just weird. I've shifted to personal attacks because that's the only thing he understands. He can't accept that we view vocals differently and literally came on here ragging me for a post I made in the mental health thread where I said, "I've struggled with body issues for years, and I argued with a friend about it today, but I really don't want to be like that. Just when I get depressed, this is something I focus on, and my dad got diagnosed with cancer recently, so I guess that's the real issue." He likes to conveniently leave off the bit where he was trying to make fun of me for a post where I was talking about my dad having cancer. It's just low-down. He's honestly benefiting from the fact that the mods deleted his other post. If you had any chance to read it, you'd know what I'm talking about. It was just sorry, and it was just something that normal people don't say or do. We had settled our argument. It was done. We had parted amicably for the most part, but it was done, and it was over. And then he came in with an entirely off-the-wall post that really creeped me out, trying to rag me for my self-esteem issues when he knows that the real post was about my dad having cancer. I don't have any respect for someone like that--especially not when they keep making claims that they don't prove and instead just constantly shift the goal posts. It was a personal attack meant to get at me--not debate vocals. I mean, he literally said, "Come on, I'm bored, my mom's working with COVID patients, and I'm bored, so let me dethrone another one of your favorites." Which he's never done anyway. This entire thing is juvenile, and the fact that he's fooling anyone into believing that he's intending to have a serious vocal debate is honestly sad. The fact that "dethroning another of your number ones" is any priority in his life is just sad. I honestly don't want to engage with him at all because he's not very bright and there's no reason to keep having the same discussion over and over and over for absolutely no reason. Especially when we already know where we stand. That's why I don't have any respect for him. He just can't accept that I'm not going to get goaded into a debate with him. He crossed a line when he made that post, and why he's under any delusion that I'm going to have any type of civil discussion about vocals (when we've already said our piece) is just beyond me. Don't let him fool you. If he's right, he shouldn't be afraid to post a video of his singing to prove how easy it is. But the reality is that it's not, and he can't--but that even if he could, just because he can when he's trained in it doesn't mean that it's any easier or less advanced than what someone like Beyonce is doing just because we haven't trained in it. Saying things like "the two people in this KPOP THREAD who have tried it have a 100% success rate" is a dishonest way of arguing. It tries to make it seem like it's so easy to do because "if we can do it in this Kpop thread, then ... " Then what? Anyone can? The argument is stupid on its face. It glosses over several confounding variables. Like it doesn't matter where this forum is or what type of forum it is. What matters is the skill level of the students, the quality of the teachers, and a whole number of factors can influence how well someone sings. It says absolutely nothing about the style and shouldn't be taken as representative of anything. A sample size of two proves absolutely nothing and wouldn't stand in any type of real academic writing--neither would his attempt at a flimsy univariate analysis. That's literally as basic as it gets. But he's one of those people who hopes if he says it sassily enough people will believe it, and sadly, it looks like some people do. The truth is that if they really DO have a 100% success rate and he feels that that's a strong enough statement to prove his argument (which again is juvenile thinking), then he should post his singing. That would at least prove part of his claims, but he's not going to do it. And the whole, "Oh, yeah, the people who've trained in this style can do it, but we can't sing like Beyonce" is ridiculous, too. Like--sure, but who's trained to sing like Beyonce? And as if difficulty on its face is a measure of technical efficiency when singing. It's absolutely bizarre. He knows that. That's why he dropped that point and moved on. Like he always does when he can't twist the argument anymore. It's honestly stupid, and I don't have time for it. He's not getting any type of discussion out of me because these aren't intended to be vocal conversations. He's had a personal vendetta against me for a while because I see through his BS and he knows it.
  8. Honestly, slow down (I mean that in a nice way!). Learn to love life at the pace it's going. You'll miss feeling youthful one day. There's no rush! You're incredibly young, and your worth/status as a woman doesn't come from how you feel about others. Chances are, they feel much the same way you do. And even if they don't--it doesn't really matter.
  9. Lol, what a joke. The fact that you think this proves anything is laughable. But predictable that you spend all this time doing this because you're a narcissist, and you've got to do something to try and restore your image. Here's a hint: it's not working. You've never embarrassed me, but I did send you running with your tail between your legs for a few months. But--as we've seen--you just can't seem to stop engaging with me. You know what I think. I know what you think. You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. We don't agree with Ahmin on many things. We don't always agree with people in this thread on everything. But you've got some obsessive need to always pick arguments that you can't win with me, and I just don't get it. You've got some warped part of your head that says you have to "dethrone" and "tear down" people I know are good, and you're not having any luck doing it. This has everything to do with the fact that I'm the one saying it, and you're obsessed with me. The more you reply, the more it becomes evident. Honestly, you're devolving, and your already-bad logic is just getting sloppy. You should have just stayed gone when you said you were leaving or come back and ignored me like someone with your alleged level of maturity would do. Your constant need to engage with someone who doesn't like, respect, or want to hear from you about a topic where we already know each other stands is juvenile and indicative that you're not oriented properly. That tells me a lot more about who you are than your irrelevant ID--great confidence in scratching your face out, by the way. You're not well-adjusted, and you come across as bitter, terribly resentful, unsuccessful, and unhappy where you are in life. If you act like this in other facets of your life, you probably repeatedly get reminded that your ability/intellect aren't as high as you want them to be because like me are here to remind you. You just need to face it. You picked the wrong person this time. You need to learn when to quit; I know it damages your self-esteem and that's probably why you keep coming back hoping to "restore order," but learning when to bow out with grace is a true sign of maturity. I see through your illogical BS and have stronger verbal abilities. It doesn't hurt that I happen to know what I'm talking about, either. But honestly your arguments are so illogically constructed that anyone with an intellect worth mentioning can see through your nonsense. The truth is that you felt special and exclusive before This is Opera started sharing that information, and when other people started catching on and realizing A) you were full of it and B) that this information wasn't as exclusive/advanced as you wanted it to be, you started lashing out because it stripped away your calling card. Now you're just trying to stay relevant by arguing with me, and honestly, I shouldn't even give you my time. I honestly probably won't after this unless you post the video I asked of you. That's how you can settle it once and for all--or, you know, how you could if you were actually good enough. I gave you a very easy way to prove your claims. You said the people here who have tried this type of coordination have a 100% success rate. Fine--prove your point. Upload the video I described, or stop wasting my time. It's as simple as that. I don't need any ID cards, proof that your teacher is at the MET, etc. That has no bearing on anything. I'm asking you to prove your argument by posting your singing. It should be easy if you're as good as you say. Instead of just trying to tear down singers with fallacious style arguments or trying to prop yourself up (again, based on association), when I simply stated that the singer here who sings at the MET (which you kept stating as a standard for your teacher) doesn't agree with you. You definitely had some kind of bite issue, and I don't need or expect any compliments on my picture here. But I see that pressed a nerve. I'd feel bad, but after your creepy stalker post and your constant obsession with me, I really don't. Again, you've mischaracterized what I've said (as usual) because you're too dumb to understand what I'm saying, or you intentionally do that to make it look like you're making a point when you're not. You're posting obvious parts about Goulet's biography hoping that if you say it snarkily enough people won't go check to see that he studied opera at a prestigious conservatory before making a career in Broadway. That's not an argument. You want to flip the narrative and say I'm making arguments on authority when I've explained (for almost a year now) that that's what you do, and I'm speaking in your terms. It's so see through. It's really quite tiresome. This isn't about where your teacher sings or what she sounds like because it's all irrelevant. The point has always been that you're learning from a woman you think sings at a non-advanced level while trying to parade around here like you're some great fountain of knowledge. That's the real irony that you keep missing. And I'm not trying to prove an argument right or wrong by association. That's why I asked you to prove your claim that you can sing with this type of coordination at the same level as these people I'm talking about because you've said it's so easy that everyone here who's tried it can do it (which is fallacious on a number of levels, but that's irrelevant). Anyway, you know what you have to do to prove your argument. We both know you won't do it because you can't. You try to build all of these arguments on authority, and people believed you for a while, but it's all talk. Constant talk. And I've seen through it for a while, and that's what really gets you. I know what makes you tick. I know what sets you off. I can predict your responses because--guess what--you don't have a flair for language, and your thinking is so simple that you literally do everything that I predict you will. Looking forward to your cover proving how easy this all is.
  10. I'm calling you Cryin' Ryan because you ducked and ran trying to save face after being called our for a creepy post. You can call it juvenile if you want, but I think it fits you, and that's about your intellect level. I literally make a conscious effort to write more simply so that hopefully you can understand. But it still doesn't work. Your little screenshot--just like your two-second singing clips--proves absolutely nothing to me. But sure, it's someone's priority to text you from their ICU hospital bed when they can't even breathe, and that just so happened to occur right after you got called out, and that just put you in such a bad head space that you couldn't reply for months. Yeah, right. Y'all do know you can go online and generate images like this easily, right? And the Jeremy Silver goons that I think you're a part of, honestly, have been called out by the real MET singer here for doing just that before. I think you are absolutely pathetic, and I'm already wasting too much of my time on you. This doesn't change the fact that you're wrong and that you're obsessed with me, and it never will. But just to explain--when you're bringing up posts that I made in 2013 in threads that had nothing to do with this--that is 100% stalking. When you're on my YouTube videos reading comments in your free time (Marios is a friend of mine, by the way, and he's the one who told me your name in passing because you apparently had a run-in with his friend superpianogirl and he was saying how stupid this Ryan guy was, and I was like, 'Wait, who's Ryan?' [honestly, I should have guessed it was you when I heard they were being stupid] because--guess what--people do refer to you by that) because you apparently have nothing better to do--that's stalking me. You're all over everything I do all the time, and it's weird, and again, it really needs to stop. Even by your admission if your little story is true (it's not), the first thing you had to do when you were okay was to come find me. PATHETIC. You really need to started getting over me. Like it should have happened yesterday, but I get that you want to be relevant by proxy, so there's that. Trump has nothing to do with this. And it's absolutely 100% not true that my claimed number one's are always white singers, lol. I've made the same claim about Lee Sun Hee back in the day (why you called me the LSH guy). Apparently Sumi Jo at one point (because I was the Sumi Jo guy | I know, I know, I know several white boomers by the name of Sumi Jo--not as many Lee Sun Hees I've seen floating about though, for what it's worth). You tried to say that I was that way about The One (I wasn't) and even at some point said something like, "is there not an overrated af Korean singer you've not called the best?" I've made it about other Asian singers, too. Song Chang Sik isn't a white American singer, and you love to rag me for liking him (Okay, I admit, I did have a white boomer uncle named Chang Sik, but it was PARK CHANG SIK). I mean seriously, this stuff that you keep bringing up is stuff that's so easy to disprove that it's honestly not even worth the effort. But you do have a history of making racial comments about singers--probably why you called Betty Buckley a hag when you couldn't think of a vocal reason as to why Whitney might be better before admitting that maybe she wasn't and then reversing course like you always do. What was it you called Kay--something like white-fried? Something derogatory in that vein. That's something that's got to stop, too. Here you go moving the goal posts. This argument has never been about Betty only having consistent chest coordination until C#5. It's that the people you're trying to say are more advanced don't even have it that high. Many not at all. That's the point--that's always been the point. This has been debated already, and I'm not rehashing it just for you to start going "but Beyoncé doesn't need to sing in that style!!!!!!" but also that she's better because even though she can't come close to doing what Judy's doing in almost the entire range, she frequently sings higher with nowhere near the level of efficiency that Judy did in her normal range. You know that. And then you want to say that what Judy's doing in the mid range isn't even a highly-skilled ability (a blatant lie) while knowing full well that Beyoncé is worse in that range while wanting to make the case that Beyoncé is better when she can't even handle the easy part of singing by your logic. Shoot, you're better at it than she is based off what you said. But isn't that a great way of putting you narcissistically back on top? It's just crazy, and I'm not having that debate again. It's already been had. I seriously don't get why you want to keep talking about this same nonsense over and over and over. Lol, I never made that leap at all. It's a tongue-in-cheek way of calling out how you consistently overhype Whitney--largely based on her mid, where it's like the be-all-end-all of pop--to call her one of the GOATS, if not the GOAT. When she's not. Because you conveniently ignored the fact that by your sustaining logic, there are plenty of modern pop vocalists singing better than she did. (And for that matter, take her down a few more notches for having deteriorating vocal health when she was on drugs.) You've got to be one of the dumbest people I've ever had the displeasure of talking to, and to make matters worse, you can't seem to stop talking to me even though I've made it clear several times that I don't wish for you to keep engaging with me--especially not after your post in April which was totally inappropriate. Again, so creepy that the mods deleted it. I can name five singers and not offer proof, too, but I'm not because it's stupid, and it's not even the point. I'd love to hear you sing a song like Frank Sinatra or Andy Williams since you're claiming that you can. (Assuming they're intermediate chest coordination-level in your view. No way they're advanced if Raitt's the measuring stick, so I guess your next post is going to wow us with an equal to or greater than version of one of their songs. Personally, I like "My Way" by Sinatra and Andy's version of "The Impossible Dream," so I'm really looking forward to your cover. Any of y'all reading this have any requests? Shooooooot, you post a video of you singing in one take where it's as good as you're claiming it should be--and that's the kicker because if it's not, I'll know--(make sure you choose one of their songs with a difficult tessitura, by the way. Deal's off if I hear "Moon River") for one of their songs, and I might just do the same. But there's no upside for me to do it. I'm not the one claiming I can sing well in this style and then using that as evidence that someone else isn't good. So, we'll see how that goes if you actually manage to prove your point first. I'm just asking that you do it. Maybe then we can take you seriously. Identify yourself in the video so we know it's you--and post your profile pic again so we can compare to make sure it's not your hidden elite-level friends you've supposedly got waiting in the wings. Full song, one take. Shouldn't be hard for you.) It doesn't matter how many people you can name who sing in a certain style, anyway. That's not any indication that that style is more technically proficient. What a sorry argument. And this was never about just chest coordination. Judy was simply more resonant and in control over her voice for 2+ octaves from C3 (actually lower) to C5 (+), but you suddenly think that Beyoncé's so great past that, when again--by your logic--SHE'S NOT EVEN GOT THE EASY PART DOWN--just because other people in this thread aren't singing like her. Who here has even trained to sing like Beyoncé?? This is just stupid, and not worth my time. Beyoncé could never sing over live music without a microphone (or one that's on the ceiling) with the same clarity and resonance and control that Judy did. She simply can't. And no matter how many inefficiently-sung (but stylistically-passable) notes you want to pull or how many notes you want to pull from Judy where she's got obvious vocal damage (where we can do the same to Whitney) will change that. I can't even believe we're having to have this conversation it's so stupid. This has a lot more to do with the fact that you can't handle--in your words-- a "white, boomer" singer being regarded so highly. And that's just sad. We both know that the technique I'm talking about is based--in your words more on "classical fundamentals"--and in mine on more efficient technique, and it is. You're again trying to boil this down to how advanced their chest coordination is in pop compared to crossover opera singers who failed out of opera and use that to somehow suggest it's worse than people who can't do it at all. You're never going to convince me of this, so just stop trying. Lol, I'm not mad about your singing ability at all. I heard your two second clips that showed absolutely nothing, and it didn't impress me. I sing as a hobby, and this is a side interest, and as I told you last year, the time and energy that I put into this is growing less and less as I actually focus on my life. As you so creepily pointed out, I am married--to a guy without an overbite (or is it an underbite--how about you upload your picture again since you want to rag profile pictures. Maybe why your self-esteem is so low?) like you, by the way. I have a great career I'm focused on, and I post here and on YouTube on the side. As you know from stalking me, I took down my controversial videos months ago because I just don't have the time to argue and didn't like the negativity of it all. But you can't seem to get away from it. By your own admission, you're not very good, and neither is your teacher. What's sorry is that you've now added that what you're not very good at isn't even hard to do! You keep digging that hole LOL But, hey, here you are, trying to give vocal advice to everyone else. Which again, the real singer from the MET here says is wrong. If you've got nothing new to add, this conversation is over. You've got my full support in getting over your Jared Derangement Syndrome (JDS), by the way.
  11. Cryin' Ryan is actually what I call you now after you ran away. You came in so prepared to fight, ragging me for everything I've ever posted everywhere, and then ducked and ran when you got called out. I asked him if he had given you my personal information, but it turned out that you were just stalking me on YouTube. How pathetic. What a low-IQ response this is from you, but that's what I've come to expect. I respond to people in other threads as I see fit, and there's overlap sometimes here. That's totally not the same as you stalking my post history, knowing my marital status, body issues I had years and years ago and never discussed with a soul in this thread, lol. You stalked years and years worth of my information because you are 1000% obsessed with me, and it was so bad that THE MODS DELETED YOUR POST AFTER VIEWING IT. It's like--it's not just me who thinks you're being very inappropriate and over-the-line when it comes to stalking me. You were literally chastised for it by the mods, and you were so embarrassed and lost so much face that you ran and hid for several months hoping that we would forget when you came back. I know your name because that's how a lot of people in the community refer to you. That's literally not the same thing as knowing your history. Your history, as far as I can tell, can be summed up by "I'm an expert in singing because I'm learning how to sing from someone who sings like Ethel Merman--who, by the way, isn't very good." I guess that's why you're not good, either, by your own admission. So it's really about time that you stop trying to spread all your nonsense here. We have a real singer here who has sang at the MET multiple times--guess what--agreed with me and not you when we discussed, so there's another loss in your column. What a fool. I put my picture up because I'm not scared of uploading my pic like you are, constantly taking it up and down like you do. But my self-esteem isn't so low that I have to make fun of people for uploading their own picture to their profiles when I'm too scared to do it myself. Maybe if you had actually accomplished something in life you wouldn't feel the need to compare yourself all the time or look cool by association. You're important because your teacher sings at the MET (and YOU can critique her pop technique), because your friends supposedly sing better than Betty Buckley (who might be better than Whitney who is the pinnacle of development for hitting a good D5), etc--and now you're trying to look like someone by coming after me. You're hardly a blip on my radar screen because I'm not trying to get off and gain fame by having you as a calling card in my life. You're not even worth it to me. I would be terribly flattered that I am to you, but I'm not because you're a weird, obsessive stalker who has to tear down others for their accomplishments while trying to build yourself up by them even though you have nothing you're comfortable showing of your own. Even your singing (which isn't good by your own admission) was a two-second clip that showed absolutely nothing. You've got serious issues, and I wish you'd try to resolve them instead of worrying about my profile picture. It's a picture that I like of myself, but I do pity you for feeling the need to tear it down because it intimidates you. You literally came on here unhinged a few months ago insulting me in every way you could and even had to throw in a "I've taken your favorites from you, and I'm about to take another one!" How absolutely immature and bizarre is that kind of attitude? Who even thinks like that but an obsessive stalker? Why am I a priority in your life? I just don't understand it. But guess what-- you're not able to match wits with me, so just give it up now. You're a narcissist, and I know it bothers you, but you have to know when to admit defeat. It's been past time. You can say it's stupid, but it's also true, and I'm not going to debate it We're talking about singers who are singing at a high level throughout their fourth and fifth to a more advanced degree than these basic singers you keep trying to prop up, and the argument is that it's likely that they could sustain a note or two higher than what they demonstrated. Which is true because Judy's highest sustained note is an F5, and Betty (who you said might be better than Whitney, btw) sustained an E5, but you're either too ignorant or willfully distorting to make it look like you have an argument again when you don't. Again, absolutely pathetic. You know as well as I do that Judy had absolutely terribly vocal health because she was on death's door most of the time high on prescription pills, and we both know that Judy's C5 and below were far more resonant than Beyonce's to the point that what Beyonce was doing isn't even really resonant in comparison. And that's what you're failing to understand. It's that what you're crediting Beyonce for doing isn't really that good or efficient, and she's not that good or efficient in comparison to these people. Like, sure, yeah, these singers totally blow Beyonce out of the water in the lower and mid range, but let me tell you, Beyonce becomes a massive resonance machine once she reaches the upper register. What a joke that is. Make all the faulty analogies you want, but you know as well as I do what you're doing. You're conflating the style argument again because you're either dishonest or too stupid to understand what you're really saying, but again, I'm not, so believe me when I'm telling you that you're being a fool. Because you are. And I don't know where you're getting off on the whole dynamics and everything else. These singers I mention have great dynamic control. And yes, I would say that a classical student who is better at the fundamentals is a more technically proficient singer than someone singing inefficiently in the fifth octave, even if they're doing a worse job comparatively in their style. And that's something most people would agree on. But again, you're shorting them their range, so it's really just a moot point. The fact that you think mediocre singers suddenly become better than good singers just because they've squeaked out more notes in the upper range is basic-level thought, and it's what I've come to expect from you. And honestly, I''m not sure why you keep bringing race into these conversations. It's irrelevant and disparaging. But racism is something typically seen in those with low IQs, so I guess I'm not surprised. Lol, the last paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. As if Judy's range stopped at G4 or that Over the Rainbow is the extent of her abilities. A perfect example of you twisting reality to try and debunk a point that was never made. And let's get back to the point--these singers I'm talking about have better chest coordination than Beyonce, so again, drop it. You can keep trying to convince people you're some fountain of knowledge, but the actual singer from the MET here does disagree with you, your teacher sings pop like Ethel Merman (and not like Beyonce), and you come on here blasting others (falsely) for not sustaining above D5 but call Whitney the pinnacle of development (when she's not) for hitting a good D5. What a sorry joke you are, and I really wish you'd stop stalking me and wasting my time. I get that it hurts your narcissism that you're supposed to be some sort of expert and then had to runaway scared after finding out that even the mods think you're off the wall--and that my vocal ideas have more of a following than yours--but you really just need to stop focusing on me and start focusing on yourself because you have a whole lot of cleaning up to do in your own life before you can start comparing yourself to me. All you're going to do is keep embarrassing yourself. Thanks.
  12. you might want to read my post again, I clearly criticize people who are of nothing but classical background (such as hardcore fans of "This is Opera" using their ideas for pop singing, clearly you know who the user Tita/Enrico is from youtube), and that in order to have good ears for pop vocals, one needs to learn contemporary technique. Strange how responding to something I said end of last year is your first post here. I wouldn't even say what I said in my post from 2019 was much different then what you just said in your second sentence. You should understand that I'm not talking about teaching someone to sing pop, I'm talking about being able to analyze it as a listener. There are things that need to be understood like voice types/passaggio, which you can really only know well from classical knowledge. So again, the best way to analyze pop vocals as a whole is to have a combination of the certain parts of classical pedagogy that are useful (again voice types for example, and other things that are constant regardless of the style you sing in), and of course knowledge of how popular genres are sung in terms of timbre and style. Oh, there he is asking to see the manager again. It takes a real self-absorbed person to think that when anyone disagrees with you, it *must* be because they just don't like you or something. Your post has two clowns because Ethel Merman was a soprano who never showed the ability to "punch in her own weight class" so to speak, singing music that never, ever had a difficult tessitura (barely ever goes above a C5), only had ONE dynamic on every single word in most of her performances. I'm now the third clown, by the way. something serious came up the day after I made my last post a few months back and I didn't even check this thread until now, mods deleted everything apparently. I'd love to explain to you why it is a bullshit claim to say that your favorite mid range singers with low tessituras such as Yang Hee Eun, to Betty Buckley, to Judy Garland, Ethel Merman, Song Chang Sik, and whatever else I've missed are somehow better than the singers praised in the pop community. Since I first argued with you in 2018 you've had nothing but a fundamentally flawed argument built upon an incredibly false premise, and then followed through afterwards with nothing but tired, circular reason. The way you ignore knowledge on passaggio, voice types, tessitura to praise singers who never had to have the full range/advanced tessitura for their voice type is unbelievable. Telling me the singers you've brought up "diDn'T nEeD" notes in the middle of the fifth octave because of MUCH lower "mOnEy nOteS" tells us nothing other than the fact that they had music that was written *easier*. Other traditional pop/theater singers DID have the top notes like Bb4-C5 for tenors, and up to F5-G5 for sopranos, even if it was much less common. Your favorite singers singing much lower because of their easier written music is not an excuse to ignore voice type and tessitura. If you haven't noticed, current pop singers "dOn'T nEeD" high notes for their voice type to be famous in popular genres either, plenty of pop tenors don't mix above A4 and sopranos/mezzos who don't mix up to F5/G5 in their music. You think record labels are necessarily requiring this or something? LMAO plenty of pop singers do not mix this high (Ed Sheeran? Billie Eilish?), but unlike you we don't ignore biological differences between male and female voices or voices in general, just to go around claiming a bunch of mid-range boomers singing in a completely different technical style are better than the highly skilled pop singers of today such as Beyonce or David Phelps. I'll be honest, my own views on contemporary singers do not align anymore with most "resonance" people in the online community, a lot of it is silly rules being forced on singers who aren't trying to follow those rules to begin with, but you're one of the most extreme. Most of the women you bring up sing in the range of a tenor 90% of the time and only rarely above it, it's absolutely insane how you consider it to be highly skilled singing given that we KNOW they can sing and sustain much higher ranges because of the voice type they were born with. That's like if you threw male athletes in to compete in the women's division and disregarded the physical differences and advantages in strength/stamina/speed, and somehow those men could be considered the most advanced or even "greatest of all time" (the way you claim Judy Garland as) while never competing with other men. For a less exaggerated example, why do you think weight classes exist in combat sports like boxing, wrestling, MMA, etc? Do you think people should just ignore the physical differences in power and just throw a heavyweight man of 220-240 pounds (100 - 110kg) in with lightweight men who are around 150ish pounds (70kg)? They exist so they can compete in a more fair manner with other athletes of a relatively more similar physicality/strength. See regardless of the different rules in these different combat sports, there are weight classes nonetheless. Singing has different rules depending on style but whether you are singing in brighter or darker vowels, cHeSt cOoRdiNaTiOn or not, a singer is only advanced if they can demonstrate a higher level of ability in the upper range/tessitura that is expected of their voice type. Sports have a men and women's division so there is not an unfair advantage from a male athlete, common sense. Now ask yourself, in singing, with all our knowledge on different voice types/passaggio, why are the majority of the female singers you've brought up only capable of sustaining a C5 for mezzos or D5 for sopranos. A trained TENOR, in other words a MAN, could sustain as high as Judy ever did. The most rudimentary knowledge on vocals/voice types should tell you that your boomer singers did not sing in the range/tessitura of their full potential. Since music is not a sport, it is true that your favorite boomer singers did not "NEED" to sing higher, per se, but that doesn't tell us anything we didn't ALREADY know about music and how music does NOT necessarily NEED advanced singing technique. nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooo Hwanhee is definitely a baritone. Not sure why Ahmin would change his mind after all these years. Random story but when I started being active on this thread around 2014/2015, I thought Hwanhee was a lower tenor and Ahmin was still deciding for a bit. Hwanhee was listed under "baritenor" by the older members who were active back then. Ahmin and I talked in DMs and he decided Hwanhee was probably a baritone and so I questioned myself as well. I ended up asking my mentor who I had just met back then (who ended up being the biggest influence and taught me everything I know now) and he confirmed Hwanhee was a baritone. He's also literally the only person back then who knew stuff like how singers who sound like Justin Bieber or Shawn Mendes were still high baritones and not actual tenors, differences in vowel shapes/"depth" between pop singers, and was the person who first taught me how to start distinguishing those things. So if he says Hwanhee is a baritone, I'd bet my life on it and I can tell you with my own ears that Hwanhee is a baritone too. if i have time i'll make a longer post using examples of popular genre singers who are actually heavier tenors (it's true that they can sound deceivingly like Hwanhee), but right now I may have my hands full of debate so I'll hold off on that. I just wanna say though, I disagree with Ahmin on some singers he calls baritones, such as Hyunsik and the guy that got arrested for the scandal thing, Jung JoonYoung. They're both tenors, JoonYoung just shades his vowels slightly darker in the lower parts of his performances so his voice has this sort of thick sound to it in those areas. I personally don't even know or care to listen to 95% of the singers Ahmin has wrote about on his blog but I came across these two singers recently while I was on youtube. Lol, my stalker is back. I've already told you that I'm not getting into it with you. You're posting the same tired arguments hoping that I'm going to take the bait, and I'm not. Here you are--again--mischaracterizing my current argument to tear it down to make it look like you're right, and I just don't have time for it. I never said that their music didn't need notes that were high up--I said that they had voices that were developed to make those notes climactic. Even mezzos like Judy (and sopranos like Betty) had notes in the upper fifth octave and Mahalia into the mid fifth, so I don't know where you're getting that I just discount this range for them. And your argument about a trained tenor hitting a C5 is absolutely pointless. And who says that they're only capable of sustaining that? Just because they didn't sing music that required it, didn't mean that they didn't have the ability to. And you're ignoring the fact that the C5s they sustain (and all the notes below it) are significantly better than someone like Beyonce. There are men who can sing a C5 and sustain it better than many pop singers if you want to cross compare styles. Shoot, I can sustain notes in the upper fifth--it doesn't make me better than Mahalia Jackson or Liza Minnelli who never did. It's just a ridiculous way of looking at the voice, and one you're trying to twist to make it seem like you're making a point when you're not. Go ahead and crown Lara and Sohyang and Ariana Grande better than Whitney, then, because they're better at sustaining notes in the upper fifth and sixth than Whitney by your logic (And don't forget that time YOU posted SOPRANO WHITNEY HOUSTON and called her THE PINNACLE OF DEVELOPMENT FOR HITTING A GOOD D5). What a blowhard. You're an absolute joke, and I don't know why you keep wasting everyone's time with nonsense arguments. You can at least stop with me because you're just going to keep embarrassing yourself, and you'll need to take another months-long hiatus again to recoup. Don't think that everyone just forgot that you already ran away once. And you'll do it again because you can't win against me. I'm not going to have that argument again to satisfy your obsessive need to look relevant by association with me. I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't even know how to read and who disappears with his tail between his legs for months after getting called out for a creepy, stalkerish post. Honestly, I'm really bored with you now because exposing your nonsense is just too easy. On second thought, maybe you're not intending to twist my argument and you really are dumb enough to believe that that's what I'm saying. If that's the case, you're a hopelessly-lost cause. Go put your attention to learning singing from a singer you've admitted sounds like a singer you've disparaged on here (I mean, put all the clown faces on Ethel that you want, but YOU'RE the one who said your teacher sings like her. Seriously, how can anyone take you seriously?). Again, your snark and sass and flawed reasoning might work on other people, but I see straight through your BS, and I have for a long time, and that's what really gets you. You're a narcissist to the highest order, and you'll say whatever you can to look cool and right in the moment, and you just can't accept that I'm not falling for it. You're a joke, and that's the reputation you're building for yourself. I have absolutely no earthly why you are so obsessed with me, but it's weird, and it really, really has to stop. I don't want to waste any more of my time talking to you, and you shouldn't have any desire to spend time talking to me, either. If you do, there's a problem. I'll just leave this with a friendly reminder so that everyone remembers who you are (it's been a while since you ran away): You're pathetic and washed up and don't even sing well in the style that you claim to be an expert in.
  13. I think the phrase is "can't walk the walk" as in "they talk the talk but can't walk the walk." It's definitely true that someone can hear issues in singing without being an exceptionally-skilled singer. That being said, I certainly wouldn't want to learn technique from someone who can't actually sing.
  14. I'm not really sure how to reply to this because despite our past differences, I do like Ahmin and don't want to speak ill of him. As far as your question, no it's not off topic to evaluate a person's vocals here. It just feels a bit uncouth to criticize a long-standing member of this thread who works really hard and is willing to put himself out there--something most in the online vocals community aren't willing to do. That being said, I don't think it's fair for anyone to hate on you for offering vocal criticism in a vocals thread. And technically, you're not doing to him what he (and the rest of us) don't do to other vocalists, so you could argue it's fine. I just don't really feel comfortable engaging in it because I know he's working really hard and is most likely pretty aware of any flaws he has in his singing already. If I had to give my opinion, I'd say he does a good job of singing in the style that he's always advocated.
  15. You cannot push racism on the parts of Asians onto white people. You can go to Asia and find that racism is far more socially acceptable than it is here in the US. When I was in China, for instance, black teachers weren't hired by the school I worked for, no matter how qualified they were, because they didn't "look like native speakers" and, I kid you not, "because their hair might scare the kids." I even did a short online advertising video, and I was told not to discuss my salary with the black women who were working with us because they weren't getting paid as much for the exact same thing. So, please, don't try to pass this off on white people teaching racism. I'm not sure what you mean by the "constant onslaught of anti-blackness in the media." The media is overwhelmingly not anti-black. You can go through most major networks, Hollywood, most Big Tech, etc., and find overwhelming support for Black Lives Matter. Go to Audible, Netflix, or any streaming service and find the Black Lives Matter section. Go to Disney+ and find Beyonce's "Black is King"--which literally attempts to place "blackness" on a God-like level (ripping off the phrase "Jesus is King").
  16. I said I wasn't entertaining your argument. I'm not. That doesn't mean I'm not responding. If you're going to try and troll, at least learn to read first. Now, unless you have something of value to add, I really am done, lol.
  17. I'm laughing at you making a fool of yourself once again in your zeal to bash Trump every chance you get even when it's not the topic and think I'm going to entertain it. I'm not.
  18. One of the original and more influential members of this thread and the Kpop Vocal Analysis blog.
  19. That's something (like him or not) Trump is working hard to change. Boris Johnson in the UK seems to be taking a harder stand, too. It's time for the world to hold China accountable. Too many of their human rights abuses are coming to light to keep ignoring them just because they have a large market.
  20. Maybe the CCP will realize that they will gain more international respect when they stop enslaving minorities and stealing international research/data.
  21. Not commenting on the quality of the singing one way or the other, but it just sounds like Ahmin to me. Really happy to see him having some success.
  22. Not sure why my post has two clowns on it. Anyone want to give an opinion instead of putting some childish reaction just because I'm the one who posted it? I'm not being negative to anyone, and I'd appreciate the same in return. Thanks.
  23. I just love Ethel's power here. One of the most powerful contemporary voices in history--if not the most powerful. Just start at 10:40 and be blown away!
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