geodeheart

Random question but is this not just head voice vs falsetto? I’m definitely confused at why OP referred to the second clips as upper head voice, they disputed this in the comments as having the same coordination as falsetto but “different”? Their comment below also just seems to describe falsetto. I was just wondering because they’re also one of the YouTubers that dispute the term “support”/“supported” in favor for “free”. They also uploaded this video: This video seems more accurate with pointing out strained and non-strained notes but I wonder to the level of accuracy this video also has.

Random but going through some videos related to range for different singers, I’ve seen that there are some members of the vocal community on YouTube that share some interesting opinions. For example, there are 2 YouTubers that I’ve seen recently that say terminology like “support” or “supported range” are incorrect, but “free notes” would be a better term. They claim it’s because CVT teaching methods disprove the need to refer to singing as “supported”, but I’m skeptical. I feel referring to “free” notes sounds much more vague, plus the whole notion of free notes are unclear when strained notes can still occur even if there’s ease (e.g. I think of Ariana Grande hitting 5th octave notes without much difficulty, but it’s still usually strained). I’m not an expert though, so what are your thoughts?

Any discussion on IVE’s vocal lineup? From what I heard I think Liz, Yujin, and Leeseo are supposed to be main/lead vocalists. I didn’t hear anything too impressive in Eleven but I don’t know much about them.

Ailee went on Twitch today and talked about her vocals, which I found to be interesting and concerning at the same time. Some excerpts: She said all of this in English and she mentioned that she still sees a vocal/throat specialist to evaluate her health. I remember her mentioning that she had issues with nodules in the past (2017/2018?-ish) but she also mentioned that they “went away”. Her new album has some not so great vocal moments and some okay ones but is there something to be worried about if she’s getting nodules like this compared to the past? She’s been quite busy these days but I think this is a sign that she does need to change her technique because the pushing & lack of openness is taking a toll on her voice. For example, if she pushed less, opened her vocal tract more, and was less chesty (used more of a balanced mix)? EDIT: I didn’t watch the broadcast live but from what someone told me, she said that the nodules came back as it was in the recent past (like in the time following up to her album release). Not sure if she means now.

I'd normally pretty much agree with all the points stated here if they were stated that way (I agree on all those points about her technique) but I think some people are way too quick to jump towards regression with her & many vocalists when the reality is that many vocalists have off/on moments. I mean no offense, but someone literally said she couldn't support at C5/C#5/D5 anymore when the evidence showed the opposite. That's what actually irritated me along with the inference that she isn't capable of doing better anymore. I'm pretty sure regression is something that happens as a result of a semi-/somewhat permanent change to someone's voice where they are no longer able to support in the same range as before. Also, imo, regression is also not linear (look at Hyolyn, she bounced back to a much better place than before). I know people have their personal preferences and that her as a vocalist isn't up to everyone's personal tastes but imo, you have to be careful before assigning regression to every not so cute moment/performance a singer has.

Thank you for pointing this out because a lot of people who don’t keep up with her don’t know that her worst vocal era imo was actually around late 2016 to 2017/18. She had really questionable moments then and even I felt she possibly had regressed, but she actually clarified that she has nodules then and was able to heal from then. Around early 2019, she was able to bounce back and showcased some of her best moments since debut. You can see it here: Imo, she’s in one of those transitional phases where her voice is maturing & the fact she’s going through a lot mentally and physically like you said (e.g. both parents passing and doing a lot of live performances more often without much rest) is taking a bit of a toll. We’ll see in the future but I find it interesting how people who don’t keep up with her have the most to say about her voice.

That wasn’t a good performance but she has plenty of relaxed performances around the same notes. She has plenty of supported notes in the first video though? Tense notes doesn’t mean she can’t support notes around the same range. Her voice just has fatigue at times when she’s overworked and she has a history of nodules in the past, along with her technique which makes her voice more tired. Her and Jojo are very similar in that regard where their voice become fatigued due to pushing & chestiness, but they still can support at the same range when rested. I know a lot of people aren’t big fans of Ailee in this thread but writing off her abilities when her capabilities say different is kinda funny to me.

I remember the stories about how allegedly SM staff used to give out strict punishments for trainees if they messed up during vocal training. Wasn’t there a whole part from SNSD’s reality show from back in the day where they had to go jogging while singing? Like to improve their stamina?

I think that’s because Beyoncé herself said she received classical training for a portion of her youth, her head voice sounds like someone who’s received that type of training rather than a soprano. Just saying as a soprano myself.

I don’t know what your point is honestly but I’m still not throughly convinced that she’s a soprano. No one expects pop singers to sing like classical singers but there are basics that are universal through music as a whole. I did choir starting as a child and my music teachers at a young age made it clear that there are elements of the voice that you can classify regardless of your style/musical background. We can debate this further but we can agree to disagree for now.

I have a question though: if Beyoncé isn’t a mezzo-soprano, how about Sara Bareilles who is also considered a mezzo? I don’t know if I buy into the fact Beyoncé is a soprano especially because of the way her coordination is around her mid-belts. Lea Salonga is allegedly also a mezzo-soprano and has a bright voice, but the coordination of her mid-belts and her upper belts also supposedly are in line with mezzos. Same allegedly with Anika Noni Rose. Kinda funny though because growing up I always thought Lea Salonga was a soprano, but idk??? Added her own tweets so lol.

I think it’s because Higher (the song she sang) is actually by Ailee haha, so yeah it’s clear she approaches her mix in a way that Ailee does but she has more issues I think.

That’s because she mimics her voice after Ailee. She originally auditioned on SuperStarK and was called the “Incheon Ailee”: I personally hear the influence but I don’t think their tones are actually similar, especially when you compare their supported range, technique, & Ailee’s tone when she’s more relaxed:

You should see some of her concert footage imo, her I AM: REBORN tour in late 2019 and early 2020 had some of her best vocals since debut. I think it’s always been an issue of her vowel shaping since debut, not her level of support from what I’ve heard from other people. Sure it has gotten worse but Ailee has consistent support still at E5/E#5 in her mixed register and I think it’s unfair to discount that. She had nodules a while back (she talked about it) and that’s why her voice was in a rough shape for a bit around 2017~2018. Some of her 2021 vocals:

Ailee posted this cover (the video is a tribute to her predebut covers lol, so that’s why it looks like this). Nothing too crazy from her but I was wondering if she had some good moments with her lower register and agility? It’s not too difficult of a song for her but I like it personally.

Interesting and very relevant points, thank you for the long post and response, I really appreciate it. The aspect about her approach actually makes sense because she didn't actually consistently support E5 or higher during her debut era (for those reasons and her larnyx placement), which I have been able to notice more. That being said, I didn't really realize until you pointed out that she had a chesty mix during Music Box/Merry Christmas era. Out of curiosity, during Daydream, was her mix still chesty or was it more balanced? She sounded her most headiest (?) during that time period. I know that they also tried using the clip of Mariah saying she writes her songs in a key too high but to be fair, I think most people who sing as songs difficult as hers would say the same regardless of fach. Personally, I'm glad that my suspicions were proven right because I see the opposite with Ailee (where she often tries to sound chestier or projects her voice lower) where her actual tone and speaking voice is much lighter. Both are sopranos without a doubt. Makes compete sense and thanks for also writing a really in-depth response. I've noticed with myself that I'm still a soprano yet I regularly speak in the lower-mid 3rd octave, so I didn't really buy their justification either. Not all of us have to speak like chipmunks or young girls to be sopranos lol. I'm sure it's the same with other vocal types (y'all brought up Jaehyun for example recently but as the opposite with him actually being a tenor instead of a baritone). The comment section of the video still has people using the alto justification, which makes me roll my eyes because I'd probably be put in that section or soprano II because fach =/= choir position. Thanks everyone for the great discussion btw!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA83g8by46I Hey everyone, I haven't been on OH or this thread in a long time, but I got stumbled across this thread again. I was wondering what everyone thinks about the info about this video about Mariah's voice? I feel the information here is kinda shaky at times (e.g. a claim that Mariah's actually a mezzo, her "prime" was during Charmbracelet, etc.) but some aspects seem to be true, like her voice being affected by stress and personal life issues according to particular eras. I'm just pretty positive Mariah is just a soprano and the evidence in regards to speaking voice seems weak to me. For example, Tori Kelly is a soprano but she also has a deeper speaking voice. Additionally, much of Mariah's speaking voice being lower perhaps could be due to the nodules she acquired at a young age and the deepening of her voice as a result too. But what do you guys think?

I can attest to the fact that Celine is usually underrated the most in the vocal trinity of the 90s, Celine has her strong spots that often are overlooked. Celine definitely had the healthiest and most consistent lower register in her prime. Plus, I agree that Celine's placement of her mix was healthier than Whitney's (who was still a bit too chest-dominant). But obviously, Whitney had more support in her upper belting range than Celine. It's hard to say who was the best of the best, but Celine is underrated for her abilities (I can admit to not being aware of her full capabilities until recently). The slayage of her midbelts though! Btw just asking, but what were Celine's best eras vocally? I know Mariah's was from 1993 to 1996 and Whitney's was from 1985 to 1991/2

Random but as a Mariah fan, it's kinda eerie how similar Uji sounds in comparison to Mariah. She sounds more similar to Mariah here than any other cover of Open Arms that I've heard. Uji's pretty underrated, does she have any recent performances? I know that she's been in a musical of some sort recently

Well she is still able to support in the same range technically, but the quality of the support just isn't the same, if that makes sense. Depending on the day, sometimes her support is more optimal than others. To be fair though, she often has a lot of events now where she sings most of her most difficult songs back to back. These days, she rarely ever uses pre-recorded vocals or lip-syncs like she used to avoid fatigue. I would blame that more on YMC. However, I think personal choices like sleep (which I suspect she doesn't get much of these days) and hydration (she used to drink a lot of water before and now, not so much) have affected her, in addition to her fatigue & general decline of ease. This might be dumb to say, but I think she's also been going through something emotionally, so that also may tie into a lack of motivation to improve/practice, too. Overall, I don't know if I would call it "regression" as of now (I've asked Ahmin & others about it before), but I would say her ease right now is on the decline when it comes her technique/ability.

I'm pretty sure her supported range is technically still at G3/E5-F5/B5, but it's getting less consistent with the ratio between support and tension/pushing.

As a fan, I def agree that her best vocal progress was from 2012 to early 2015, after that, it seems like she's become stagnant and has seen a decrease in her ease/better ability to belt. However, I do think she has improved with her head voice, but it hasn't become extremely noticeable. I really wish she could listen to fans that have voiced on social media (e.g. Twitter, which actually she stalks time to time) about her unhealthy habits. She's at a critical point now. I'd hate to see what happened to Mariah at 29/30 when she got older and unexpectedly regressed (although Ailee has more dexterity & doesn't have nodules). She REALLY needs to change her approach. In fact, I had to take a long hiatus from stanning her because I felt really frustrated with her and her progress (not just vocally, but career-wise too). I lowkey want to make a YouTube channel (not just for this only) and post a video & share it so she might see it :( She gets too many passes & she needs some constructive criticism. Otherwise, she won't be able to sing like she used to.

Random but when do you guys think Kai got his 2nd nose job? It was pretty unnecessary imo, his first nose job looked the best Before: After: They smoothed out the bump but weirdly enough, his nose looks way more flat and it doesn't suit him as much. It's sad because I thought he was more handsome before it. It gave his nose definition.

Thanks for answering for question, I appreciate it guys! Either way, both are amazing vocalists. I was curious to see what their strong points and weaknesses were (and in comparison/contrast).

Ah I see, I just wanted to ask about them both because they're both pretty notable singers and Aretha/Patti have shown some pretty great moments over the years. Hm wouldn't Gfriend just have Yuju as a decent vocalist (no shade btw)? I don't know anyone else that has above average technique in the group except her. I'll check out NCT, since I've been curious about SM vocalists for a while now. Wanna One isn't really my cup of tea to be honest, but it's just a preference thing. It's sorta a shame that there aren't as many stronger vocalists as there was in the 1st/2nd gen :/ I guess the stylistic emphasis has carried over from Western music to Kpop. I'm glad EXO debuted at the time they did, their vocal line is the best out of 3rd gen male groups for sure.