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lagomorph

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Everything posted by lagomorph

  1. Honestly, most people, especially at her age probably get fillers and it’s not a big deal. Her lips looking the SAME as they did a couple years ago before would actually be evidence she got fillers because she’s at the age where you lose volume in your lips. The biggest difference is that her upper lip is much more raised, the ratio of the upper to bottom lip is much more pronounced, and the change in shape in the bottom for a poutier look. I’d say the biggest evidence of filler is that there appears to be more volume in the lower tubercle (pout part of the lip), which is impossible to do without filler. You can over line the Cupid’s bow, which I think is happening since her upper lip border is oddly undefined, but actual volume can only be achieved with filler or fat transfer (more likely filler because fat transfer is too soft to get changes in shape like that). Not saying she got buccal fat removal, but typically with aging you would also see a loss of volume and descent of fat into the midface. The pictures are not super great, but it looks like she’s having an increased volume in the cheek region and total loss of volume in the midface and lower face which just isn’t how aging works Anyway, those pictures are super weird angles and potato quality so it’s hard to tell for sure what’s really going on but that’s what I’m observing
  2. Right, and we’re speculating based on little information. She very well could have lost weight due to a medical condition (stress, anxiety, over active thyroid, etc) for all anyone knows. Given their lifestyles, it could be anything beyond “selling out” I always find over speculation about people’s reasons for changing their appearance really weird (like the speculations about Wonyoung hating her apple shape and Yuna losing weight to keep up with Wonyoung upthread.) The fact is that they live a super stressful lifestyle which is super image based, which makes both maintaining a healthy weight difficult and has a lot of drivers for negative body image. Digging deeper about their personal motivations just feels invasive to me
  3. Everyone makes mistakes and I don’t think she’s a bad dancer, just not adept at internalizing moves and maintaining the mood of the song when she makes mistakes. If you look at any group’s performance you’ll find a member who makes mistakes here and there. But the choreography does her and the whole group zero favors. Frankly, this level of detail only works for groups with can dance with precision and have similar body alignment and energy. 2NE1 (just picking another 4 member group) or even Mamamoo don’t have higher levels of dance skill, but their choreography is catchy and memorable enough where everyone can execute it in a similar way, while not being so bogged down by the details where they can maintain their stage presence and express the mood of the songs. The problem here is that the level of detail and type of movement (a lot of full body moves with multiple alignment points) isn’t yielding much impact relative to its difficulty. They need to go the IVE route with the choreography. It’s not necessarily the most difficult or innovative, but it’s 100% designed with highlighting the auras of the girls and plays up their strengths, while hiding their weaknesses. People say that Giselle/ the group have no stage presence. I don’t necessarily think that’s true. I think it’s more the overall package isn’t designed to highlight their auras/skill level.
  4. I’ve been lurking in this thread and one thing I’ve noticed is that people treat jaw botox as a magic bullet for all things jaw reduction. I get it done for TMJ and it only makes a difference if you have a pronounced muscle. It will not change bone or reduce fat. It most cases, it makes a fairly minimal difference and won’t make a difference at all unless the issue is actually muscle. Less commonly discussed is jaw, neck, and chin lipo, along with genioplasty which can add balance to the jaw by enhancing the chin without actually shaving it. I would guess it’s super common because you never see anyone with fat under their chin. People also don’t really talk about facial fat transfer which can give a softer, more natural appearance and is more permanent than fillers. Compared to fillers, it can’t build hard structure but that’s not really the style in Korea. I’d also guess it’s super common and part of how almost every idol seems to have perfectly sculpted cheeks and looks rested despite their insane schedules.
  5. But why? No shade to anyone, but BP’s comeback really made me realize that what ITZY is offering is a lot different than BP. There were a lot of comparisons, but the whole vibe is fundamentally different.
  6. I agree that they should be capitalizing on the phenomenal success of their debut by either bolstering their fanbase (v-lives and fan meetings) or increasing their public appeal (variety and special stages). It’s a shame that other groups are doing more to promote the group than JYP is. But at the end of the day, it’s the results that matter. So far ITZY is killing it when it comes to every metric that matters. Maybe there’s a reason why we’re not getting much at the moment, but at the moment, we’re hopefully at about a nano-second of their career and their results haven’t disappointed yet. I’ll wait and see before I get my pitchfork.
  7. It’s not relative. The quality of what a group produces is dependent on the perception of profitability and the willingness to invest capital. You want a good debut and comeback? You need a well executed strategy. That way of thinking sounds like you want what you want but don’t really care about the planning, capital, and investment required to execute. Looking at the top companies financial statements, the industry is a lot more low margin than we think. They can’t just make debuts and comebacks happen, it requires a lot of financial planning. Anyway, I’d rather have a great first album rather than a couple first wins. I wouldn’t be surprised if their choice to debut now was strategic, which may have meant that they didn’t have time to execute an album to the quality they intended. If Somi was intended to be in the group until her departure, then the group members were finalized less than 6 months ago. However, in able to capitalize on the soft Q1 competition, get ahead of other key rookie debuts, optimize the amount of time to accrue accomplishments for rookie awards, and likely to align with KIA’s promo schedule, February was probably the optimal month. With that quick of a planning and production timeline, I’m not surprised if the album was less of a priority. Plus, they’re in a building mode. What they do in this stage is going to do a lot in determining their brand. If they come out with a fandom backed album AND the same type of digital success, they’ll already be in the top quartile of groups. That combined with them already establishing themselves as a top performance group by putting an emphasis on dancing and vocals is huge. I would’ve loved for them to win those attainable awards, but I think for the most part their strategy worked and I’d rather have that.
  8. I think JYP’s strategy was smart, but conservative. It probably reflects a movement towards lean/agile methodology. It’s definitely entirely deliberate and not some bone-headed decision for the sake of it. Rather than taking for granted that their pre-debut hype and brand name would drive sales, they’re setting themselves up to make data based decisions and leverage their strengths, rather than investing everything in one go without having data to calculate ROI. By starting with Youtube, they had data to project how they would do on the charts and were able to leverage international fans to generate excitement in advance of their chart debut. Now they’re going to have a much better projection of how many units to produce of their first album when they do release it and they’ll actually have a fandom to leverage to support it. They’ve outperformed virtually every metric debuts are judged with their strategy so far. I don’t think the debut album/ physical sales will be any different. I get we all want an album, but criticizing it as a business decision is thinking tactically, not strategically.
  9. I’m curious about how this group will do. I think if will all come down to song and concept. The GP preferences seem different from fandom preferences, which is why it includes so many girls who dropped in the ranks previously. I think there’s probably enough star power to counteract it, but I can’t see many of the girls contributing to the fandom power.
  10. I think it’s a combination of them playing to their strengths and the fact that the song, choreo, and outfits all have mixed vibes. You’re telling me that it’s supposed to be cute with that booty drop in the chorus? I don’t blame the girls or even the trainers for missing it since they were all given mixed signals about what the song was supposed to be. I was surprised it wasn’t more polished and synchronized though.
  11. Damn, if there was ever a moment worthy of the 6x replays Mnet loves doing, it's this one. Rumor's choreography was 10x better than the rest, but these girls just killed it.
  12. And? Technical experts place different weight on different aspects. I find Haeyoon's mix much more pleasing and don't like Goeun's reliance on head voice and constant releasing of air into her high notes or the chestiness or throat tension in Yuri's voice. I'm much more impressed by her relative lack of jaw tension, breath support, well connected head voice, emotional capacity, and ability to harmonize/musicality than anything I've seen from Goeun or Yuri. It doesn't help we've seen Yuri and Goeun going flat or sharp like a 100 times either. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, it's about preferences and differences in opinion, but I don't think your technical assessment is the end all be all, sorry. I never said that finding Hitomi stiff in the teaser was biased. It's biased that you want to bring that to the conversation, when nobody was directly comparing them. Hitomi being stiff doesn't preclude Wonyoung from being stiff. I didn't particularly notice either being stiff because the teaser was really short, but it's not about being "the one" to receive criticism, but about whether or not it was fair. I've noticed that Wonyoung doesn't exactly have the strongest core when dancing and tends to dance more with her limbs than rather connecting through her core, so I wouldn't be surprised if people gave her that criticism. In general, I found Hitomi more connected through her full body, so I wouldn't be surprised if people did prefer her. Your general point that people should be more fair in their criticism is valid, but brushing everything everything off as biased just because they don't agree isn't very productive.
  13. Sorry sis, but these all seem like perfectly valid opinions. It's true that people have different standards for how critical they are of certain trainees, but based on the examples you're giving, it seems you have your own biases as well. Why don't we just accept that no trainees are beyond criticism and let people give the opinions they see fit instead of trying to police people to conform to your own.
  14. You’re really cherry picking what you consider justified. Minju got number one in the position evaluation and even cried and acknowledged herself that her rank wasn’t exactly justified and fell to 20 in the rankings afterwards. Minju got praise for her expression in 1000%, but then scored last in her group and 28th in the on site votes, which seems to imply that her expression really wasn’t there for most. No one is going to argue that Chaeyeon’s kick wasn’t extraordinary and that her talents aren’t there. That’s the difference between her and the other examples you’re giving. Chaeyeon got screentime through her accomplishments, while the others are more questionable. Personally, I don’t think all of those girls deserve to be grouped together, but Chaeyeon is the last person you should be using as an example of unwarranted screentime.
  15. Exactly. People are annoyed at screentime such as this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Produce48/comments/940e7t/analysis_of_reaction_shots_during_battle/?st=JKZKZ6NL&sh=e8d9064d and the fact that they have all of this screentime and it doesn’t amount to either great stage moments or a great storyline or even entertainment for some, not about them getting screentime when they do really well like Chaeyeon. Chaeyeon has gotten no superfluous screentime—she’s only been highlighted for doing really impressive stuff such as showing great teamwork and skills, but was barely seen in previous episodes. Its kind of a shame because she has great storyline potential. How about the fact that she’s been consistently regarded as the most talented trainee, but hasn’t been doing that great when it comes to audience votes? That’s interesting, 1000 reaction shots of the same girls isn’t.
  16. It might help Yuri. But yeah, I don’t see how it could really help them. Both of their strengths make them lead vocal, not main vocal candidates. They both sound great when they’re singing lead lines, but high notes really aren’t their speciality. Hearing a bunch of jank notes over and over again wasn’t very pleasant. If it amounted to a triumphant moment, it would be another story, but even vocal processing didn’t help Goeun much, but Yuri sounded a fair bit better so I think she’s more likely to move up some. It reminds me of what Hongki said about wanting to be center. Like it takes more than being a good singer to be a main vocal—you actually have to hit the notes, make them sound good, and suit the song. I think Nako was super smart to cede the main vocal part so quickly when she couldn’t hit the note and go for the lead vocal lines. Like the votes show, she and Chaewon still managed to shine without being main because they actually sounded pleasant.
  17. My point is that a lot of this “unnecessary hate†is rooted in pretty fair criticism and a lot of fair criticism is being brushed off as pure hate or sour grapes. A lot of people go over the line, but being criticized and even hated isn’t particularly unique or special to Yujin. It’s more exacerbated because it’s mostly Mnet’s fault and should really be directed at them, but I just don’t think the outward focus on how other people feel about her is necessary.
  18. I don’t think it’s lack of stage presence as much as it is lack of maturity or ability to grasp the concept, which makes sense because she’ss super young. In a way, it’s a good thing she’s not feeling overly pressured to act more adult than she has to, but she still has to be assessed based on what she puts out there. And for me, it was a big miss as well. I can see why she chose the song, but it didn’t play to her strengths. She was a fair bit more compelling in VVV.
  19. If the highest compliment you can give to some is that she’s “decent†or “doesn’t suck in any particular area,†then it shouldn’t really be surprising that not everyone likes her as much as you. That said, preferences are preferences. Not everyone has to like the prettiest, most talented trainee the most. I’m sure we all have questionable faves, so people shouldn’t really have to defend liking the girls they like.
  20. Nobody said they were here for that either, but go off I guess. I’d be much more amenable to the vocal battles it if the vocalists were a bit more competent, but it is what it is.
  21. I don’t know why Mnet thinks we care about Shouty Strained Note #1 vs Airy Strained Note #2 over and over again when we have Haeyoon out here serving personality and healthy, supported vocals including emotional range. Same thing with Gyuri’s vocal problems every time. It’s just not good tv.
  22. Yeah, both votes are essentially measuring different things (public appeal vs. fan support). I like your idea because there doesn't seem to be complete alignment between who the fans support and who is appealing to the public and you need a balance of both, but I think people like the simplicity of the current format. They can validate with more data such as Naver/Youtube, that garden thing, even fangroups buying billboards--the data they have is imperfect, but more than enough to avoid the blunders they're making. Yujin, Wonyoung, and Kaeun were natural pushes for screen time, but not so much so that they should be ignoring people who clearly have the potential to be profitable. Like why the hell do Miu and Sae have over a million of fancam views, but like 20 seconds of screen time? Or how did Mako have a billboard in a tower and trend after each episode but no screen time? What happened to Doa's pre-show buzz? Where's Chaeyeon despite her super-consistency in the votes? etc etc A lot of girls had data in their favor they could be profitable, but they chose to never show them and just assumed they knew what the market wanted. And now it's backfiring, because some girls they pushed are getting backlash they don't deserve and a subsegment of salty fans of eliminated girls trying to dismantle the whole thing.
  23. Acting in aggregates is still a signal. If hardcore fans become the base of appeal, then they have to adjust their strategy. Again, it's not very wise to create a strategy which isn't responsive to the market. If the public, justifiably, is tired of elimination reality tv shows and are put off by other factors, it doesn't make sense to devise your strategy around the public. Miyu and Chaeyeon clearly had the draw factors to get it to this point. They both have more than enough assets to justify their presence, regardless of how a subsegment of the market may react. Even if they're aren't the ace when it comes to CFs, luckily there's 10 other girls. I'd argue that if you have to push a girl based on her "public appeal" and she's being trounced by other girls, perhaps you're not using signaling correctly. It seems Wonyoung is who the public has chosen for that position, not Yujin. It's an optimization problem. People should've seen it coming, but again, the show's entire branding concept basically encourages intense dedication to a single girl, not the group. It's natural people are going to be upset when they perceive their girl getting shortchanged in any way--even if they take it too far. What's the alternative to being upset? Stop watching? That doesn't really help the bottom line either.
  24. It's not just a marketing ploy. It's important data. In product development, it's rare to actually be able to test a product in its target market to such an extent. It's actually very valuable market data about what's profitable and in which segments. Successful girl groups can either leverage public appeal into CFs or intense fan engagement into purchasing products. Voting gives an indicator of both, while that garden thing measures engagement. Views and likes give a mix. Hell, it even gives them short-wave feedback of which iterations are most appealing to the market and market tests concepts. It's rare to have this type of information validated by consumers before product launch. Mnet, to a certain extent, can dictate audience preferences, but its effectiveness varies on the market and the product. Take 101 vs Idol School, for example. They're getting a lot of feedback which seems to be telling them they should re-iterate. Some of the girls they're pushing aren't rising despite the push, which indicates that there's some mismatch between consumer preferences and what they're signaling to the market. I think fans take it too far and sometimes have this mentality where they act the entire group acts to service their preferences, but it's never wise to disregard the end user. If it was one person complaining, then whatever, but it does seem to be aggregates.
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