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skcebl

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  1. I think we all know that OTR  is secretly Pledis/CJ or Han Sung Soo/CJ. I would find it ironic and/or sad if one day, in a few years, Han Sung Soo is responsible for managing the comeback of IOI after destroying Nayoung's entertainment career (i.e. the current situation of Pristin).

     

    It's not a secret that Han Sung Soo heads OTR, Izone thanks him in their speeches. He politicked his way to get to be head of OTR. And I wouldn't be surprised if he pushed for an IOI reunion in 2021 after Izone is done.

  2. If IOI ever did comeback (even as a one time thing) it would have to under the auspices of Mnet/CJ since they own the intellectual property and songs. Do you think they would commission YMC to manage them again or someone else? Because I remember how Yeonjung was treated by IOI's management and she should never have to go through that again (especially when one could say she is the one member who has been treated better by her own company in EVERY way and is better in her own group, rather than being in IOI).

     

    It would probably be under OTR or another CJ in-house agency.

  3. Happy Birthday Somi!

     

    If IOI did have an Izone level contract there really would have been a Pandora's box of changes. If Gugudan debuts as 7 (not able to wait 2.5 years) I can see Sejeong and possibly Mina never being added when they are free, especially Sejeong as her personal popularity would (and still does) enable to her have a solo career (and Gugudan would be established without Sejeong's sasaengs insulting the group and telling her to leave). 

     

    Yeonjung would be in a predicament. She fits WJSN like a glove and in many ways more than Dawon and Soobin (the other main vocals) has become the voice of the group (they always give her lines to show off). Their (still to date) signature song IMO is "Secret" which is highly dependent on YJ. I am also not confident Starship could manage to give her a decent solo career if she is not in a group (one of the rumored reasons she was added to WJSN is because she was going to bolt Starship after IOI).

     

    And MBK/Kim Kwang Soo might be a horrible company but with a no opt-out for 2.5 years I don't think there is any chance the DIA members are sent to the program (which opens up Chaeyeon's spot in the final 11). Without Chaeyeon's income from acting/CFs in 2016-17, I don't even know if DIA could have continued to exist.

     

    I guess we should all be happy that in 2016 Mnet didn't know yet what it had on its hands and didn't act as they are doing now, contract wise.

     

    I think the Izone companies definitely looked at the IOI companies and they figured it's better to debut and promote what they have so they at least can develop an identity for the non-Izone girls. Izone functionally has a similar contract to PDX. With PDX they just do double the work in years 2.5-5 to make CJ and their original companies happy.

     

    If Yeonjung did have a 5 year contract that would leave two years left over and I think that would just go to singing ballads or OSTs. 

     

    KKS is all about trying to replicate PD now with his own shows, so probably no Chaeyeon in the alternate reality of PD S1 as PD S4. 

    • Like 1
  4. The new rumored five (!) year contract for the next P101 group has gotten me thinking. I think we all know that IF Mnet/YMC (Stone?) could do it over again knowing what we know now they would extend how long IOI was supposed to last (perhaps to Wanna One levels) as well as allow NO opt-out clauses for members to go back to their own groups (as in Chaeyeon, Mina, Sejeong, Yeonjung). But anything else?

     

    I have to think the horrible treatment of Yeonjung by some "fans" and management (starting with the edited "Crush" MV) would not have been allowed/tolerated (to the point Starship is the one agency I can understand not wanting to send their artist to a IOI comeback), not to mention the said "Crush" (a superior song to "Dream Girls") not done on the cheap as their debut video. They probably would also have actually debuted the SECOND sub-group they said would happen (but never did) to get as much promotions as possible out of the members.

     

    It's 5 years with the second half being open to rejoining their companies. So we can see what the Izone companies are doing with that setup of 2.5 years no exceptions. Starship opted to put in younger trainees so they're still relatively young after the 2.5 year period. We also see Yuehua and Woollim not waiting for the contract to be up to debut their groups and they'll deal with adding in their Izone members later possibly.

     

    So if IOI had the 5 year split contract I could see something similar happening with companies like Pledis and Jellyfish debuting their groups. I could also see Yeonjung maybe never being put into WJSN. Actual IOI had a situation where her fame could help WJSN and WJSN was relatively new. But at 2.5 years that's maybe too far in, and the Starship trainees in S1 were also the girls who didn't get into WJSN. So for a 5 year contract IOI would have been her career.

     

    And with every Produce group the management gets better and more refined.

    • Like 1
  5. i brought it up again because i brought the topic here and you just jumped to a new phase of your argument and started to claim naver comments are in favour of full-assed reunion. it doesn't matter who you are responsing to.

     

    It's clear 6,000 Naver people don't want a non-full member reunion. It's there in the numbers as evidenced by the second and third comments. If you want to think 6,000 people hate the idea of an IOI reunion, fine. As I said before, you do you.

     

    Jumped to a new phase? Moa_Nunu commented, I clarified. It was done, we gave each other internet hugs.

     

    Would you like a hug? *hugs*

  6. that first one is definetly against any kind of reunion. all naver is filled with that kind of comments. please drop this "half assed argument" because it's getting us off topic which is they clearly don't want i.o.i come together again.

     

    zO2DPCw.jpg

     

    If that's the way you interpret the first one then that's your interpretation. You do you. I don't interpret it that way, and I've already stated that. Moa_Nunu brought it up and I responded to clarify my position. The 2nd comment and 3rd comment are also relative with thousands more upvotes than any of the other ones. On Naver's actual site the 2nd comment is now the top comment.

     

    I don't know why you're quoting me again. I don't know why you have a picture of the comments that aren't even from the thread you linked. If you don't want to talk about this particular topic anymore then stop bringing it up.

  7. Hmm... yes the comments were negative but the ones most of us have problems with are the ones that used Chungha’s success to demean and marginalize other members of I.O.I. That’s not cool at all, considering Chungha herself has very good relationships with every member to this day. The negative reactions wasn’t at all in response to Somi not joining this hypothetical reunion... so I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on that. I think we all want an OT11 reunion but at this point I can only see an unofficial one working because an official one would have so much controversy surrounding it. Knetz would probably have a field day screaming about how they’re doing this just because they’ve been unsuccessful in their own groups. Like others said an official reunion with a legit comeback that ends up being successful might screw up the dynamic in their original groups but then again I don’t see how they have much to lose at this point.

     

    This is just a sad situation tbh. Especially Pristin. They just got screwed for no reason.

     

    Some of the comments also used Somi to demean the other girls.

     

    These were the top three from naver, which have the most votes from any of the articles and which is considered to have a less biased user base.

     

    1. [+6,678, -528] No way ã…‹ã…‹ã…‹ã…‹ let memories remain memories

     

    2. [+6,091, -89] Don't do it unless everyone is back.. it'll otherwise just be like telling the world that you're only getting back together because your respective groups failed

     

    3. [+5,629, -116] If you're going to get back together at all, do it with all the members... ㅜ

     

    I don't interpret the first one with the "no way" as just a general statement of displeasure with IOI. I think it's a response to the article's contents. The other two want everyone back together. They don't want a half-assed reunion. 2 has negativity but it's main message is get it right if you have a reunion.

     

    As for any potential reunion. I don't care about controversy or Knetz whining on nate just as long as it's not half-assed. The girls said they want to get back together in 2021, I'll support them if they do, all of them. Not 10 of them, not OT(insert number that isn't really an OT), it has to be 11.

     

    And with Pristin, they got screwed over because Han Sung Soo wanted to work with PD48 and Izone. He'd rather do that and for whatever reason felt like Pristin should go on hiatus.

  8. I don't agree with the argument that neither of our sister groups managed to release good enough songs for the GP to love, it just isn't true. Not only that, but it's just statistically almost impossible, the maths don't check out. If you combine all the songs our sister groups (units included) released ever since I.O.I debuted, you have 6 (DIA) + 7 (Gugudan) + 3 (Pristin) + 3 (WEME) + 6 (WJSN) = a total of 25 songs released. 19 if you take WJSN out considering they're slowly crawling towards success still even though they're not there yet. Y'all are gonna make me believe that all of those 25/19 songs were "not good enough for the GP to like" hence why they didn't work? And that in the meantime, all 4 songs Chungha released were all vastly superior to all of those 19/25 songs hence why she's succeeding much more compared to our sister groups? Nah fam, that's not it at all. It just doesn't make sense statistically to believe Chungha has a 100% rate of quality of songs with 4 songs, but that everybody else has a 0% rate of quality of songs based on a much larger array of songs.

     

    There were absolute great songs put out there by our sister groups, it's just not deniable. Secret is one of those songs that people unanimously like so much it almost has cult status. A Girls Like Me is highly liked as well, when it came out it gathered majorly good response, same with The Boots & even Not That Type to some extent. I could even argue that Crush is a pretty damn good song, and also I would not gloss over the intense irony of seeing a group like ITZY succeed while their song's musical concept is pretty much a copy-pasta of WEME's. Get It is arguably a motherfucking bop, again people have reacted positively to it. One could easily argue that Wee Woo had that impact, people on variety shows would be dancing and reacting positively to it, it had a slight virality. And WJSN recently put out geat songs like Catch Me Catch You and even La La Love, they're really consistently putting out good music. Even Gugudan's unit tracks were honestly quality even if SeMiNa arguably was too late for its time. The only group I would accept criticism about releasing not good enough songs would be DIA, I have not seen any of their songs being as universally praised as some of the songs I just mentioned have. Although I think they still released bops like Good Night, but it was still on the weaker side, so I'm conceding that. But I will never agree about the rest of them.

     

    I have been in Kpop long enough to know that success in Kpop is 50% brand power (be it company's or group's or both), 20% song quality and 30% luck. What our girls have been majorly consistently lacking all this time, is mostly brand power and luck. Any of these songs would have been released by a big3 company, they would have been a hit. You can't deny that when big3 groups have questionable title tracks in their discography that still manage to top the charts and gather wins while their releases were absolutely not unanimously received. Y'all won't make me believe that ITZY's success with Dalla Dalla isn't majorly tied to being from JYPE, to being Twice's sister group, while the song itself received such a divisive strong reaction upon release, a lot of people were not liking it just like they were taken aback by IDLYG. Yet it still topped the charts, because brand power is THAT strong, people are willing to overlook such questionable release and take the time to grow into it. They never take the time to grow into our sister groups' releases, they listen to it once, and it they don't think the world out of them right away, they'll push them aside and never listen to them again, giving them absolutely no chance to grow on them. When it's a group that already has so much brand power, the fandom will keep them afloat no matter what, they'll still be played everywhere, and the song will finally enter GP's mind enough that they end up liking it. It happened with Rookie, it happened with Signal, it happened with Dalla Dalla, it happened with some NCT songs, it happened with any type of lowpar song a group from a popular enough company/group puts out there. They're still a success, they're still charting high and collecting trophies. It never fails, in over ten years, I have literally never seen the opposite happening.

     

    So yeah, our girls have brand power through I.O.I and they have solo brand power, but it's not enough to rub onto their own group's brand power in order to have that type of reaction from the GP. That plus the unwillingness of some people to give their sister groups a chance because they'd much rather keeps the memory of them as I.O.I members only, or the exhaustion at the idea of having to follow so many groups with so many members.

     

    I will not argue that all of the companies have made the best of decisions, they not always have. But almost all of them, save for Pledis, really tried their very best to promote their groups, through any means necessary. But they're not top tier companies, their own brand power as companies is virtually non-existent (save for maybe Starship and maybe Pledis but even then, it's pretty ridiculously non-existent compared to a company like say SM). All of these companies had to create clout from scratch for their own group, and they haven't managed to create a buzz big enough for any of them to truly skyrocket towards success. Luck is a big factor, EXID would be nowhere without Hani's fancam, Momoland would be nowhere without little children liking a lowpar silly song like Bboom Bboom that honestly sounded so dated & cheap at release I though it would go absolutely nowhere. But that is the luck factor, you never know what will stick with the public, surprises can arise left and right, so when I see Jellyfish trying many concepts and seeing what sticks, I see a company trying to push the luck factor hard, without any payoff thus far, but they're still hella trying.

     

    CLC has constantly released amazing songs since their debut in 2015, and yet they only received their very first win this year. I will never accept the reason that they took 4 years to see the light of day was because "their songs weren't good enough until No" because that is such an insult. Yet, despite being from Cube, despite releasing good songs, despite having likable talented visual members, they only started to get out of their nugudom hole now. Stellar is another case, with a seriously amazing discography that the GP never gave a chance to, partly because their concept was sometimes too racy, but mostly because they lacked clout. BBC has sure are hell been spending billions on LOONA and released extremely good songs (among less memorable ones) and yet, they're still nowhere near the success they ought to have for showing such consistency and with a company basically doing The Mostâ„¢.

     

    The Kpop industry is very fickle, and constantly releasing good songs with a constant good push from company is in no way a sure roadmap to success. It can help, but if you don't have brand and company clout and if you don't get lucky, you're still nothing.

    Chungha's success is partly because she released good songs (although I will definitely make the argument that not all of them were top tier material, the only one I think is truly excellent is Gotta Go. WDYK and Rollercoast were good growers that were given the chance to grow on people, but I lowkey always forget what Love U sounds like or that it even exists), but also because she got lucky. She also benefited from the fact a solo career implied she wouldn't have to build clout for an entire new group, she only had to carry herself with the popularity Produce 101 and I.O.I gave her, and that was major help. Solo clout doesn't necessarily translate in group clout, and vice versa. This is why you can have groups like Miss A being very popular, but their individual members apart from Suzy? Not so much, they all fell down to irrelevancy, even while the group was still active, their own popularity was just inconsequential. Same can be said about many Gen2 groups who have disbanded. 4Minute for example, is pretty telling. Apart from Hyuna, where are all the members now? SISTAR was such a digital monster group, yet Hyolyn struggles to stay or even enter top100 Melon chart despite releasing pretty damn great songs. I also have yet to see what will be AOA's members individual clout apart from Seolhyun now?

     

    This is also why you can have artists peaking during survivals, but falling into nothingness afterwards despite working hard, putting material out there and receiving company's push. Unpretty Rapstar contestants received so much fame and their releases through the show were always dominating the charts, yet now, where are they? Heize is maybe the only musically acclaimed one out of all of them nowadays and even then her popularity is still pretty lowkey compared to what it used to be during UPRS, despite having a company called CJ (which means she gets all the money and push she needs). Kassy is another one who seems to be doing surprisingly alright. Jessi has some clout, but it's not really for her songs much rather than her variety appearances. Kisum is completely ignored despite consistently releasing such amazing songs (her featuring with Hwasa was gold). Although granted, those types of songs might be too peculiar to get GP's interest in the first place, but when I see someone like Woody toping charts for weeks, I can't help but think GP can truly like any type of song if the stars align.

     

    Anyway, this is a rather long post, and I could go on and on, but to say our girls never put quality songs out there is just so damn wrong. Not only on the factual side of the argument, but also on the purely statistical side of the argument. You don't put 19/25 songs out there and truly believe none of them are great. It makes absolutely no sense to believe 5 companies made the same 19/25 mistakes in song choice, over and over and over and over and over again. Fam, this just ain't it.

     

    First of all, when assessing the songs you can't look at them from the PoV as a "music critic" or K-Pop music aficionado or someone that really loves and appreciates the group. Remove any adjective from around a song's title like "amazing" or "great" or "superior" or "complex" or "quality" or even "good," anything that is meant to pump up the song in your mind and convince people that it was that thing. Remove any adjective like "silly" or "simplistic" or "dated" or "cheap" or "lowpar" or "forgettable" meant to downgrade a song that did well. If you ask people what the public is like they'll not say many complimentary things. Well guess what? If you want to have public song success, you have to please those people. A hit song isn't determined by what you as an individual think. I liked a lot of IOI's sister song releases. But that doesn't matter. It's a single data point that doesn't even have a melon account. A hit is determined after the fact by what the public in Korea was listening to. That's it. 5,000 people can declare one song the greatest thing since sliced bread, the apex of human achievement, so amazing, such great, much complex, and very wonderful while 5,000,000 people, including little children, may like a song mildly but listen to it every day.You know what song was a hit and will be considered a hit? If you can't answer that question you'll never get what I'm saying. This is pop music. It's supposed to be popular. 

    As I said previously in this topic I think the IOI sister groups got opportunity for that first listen reflected by their debut chart rankings on a lot of their releases. It's an opportunity not a lot of smaller companies get. Momoland was in the 300s when the Bboom Bboom controversy hit (and to their company's credit they did a lot of media play at the time that got ears on the song), EXID was probably even lower in ranking before the fancam. 

     

    Chungha's CEO did not say I want to make the greatest most complex songs that the most discerning and deep in the shit K-Pop fan will love. "WDYK and Rollercoast were good growers that were given the chance to grow on people" the chance was given by who? By luck? By throwing darts at a board and saying "gee, I really hope people like these songs." No, that was intended. Chungha's CEO said I want to make songs the public will like. That was a good decision. His company's livelihood and Chungha's career depended on that. If you do that enough times people may give your subsequent releases a second listen or a third listen. They may give your new group a chance too. They may give your new group several listens. They may be open to your future release being experimental, different, or weird. That's the road to having some kind of company power. Company power is trust that people have in you. It can result in the perception of quality in your products before people even try them out. I absolutely agree that Itzy benefits from company power. They had the opportunity to get ears on their song as evidenced by their high debut ranking. But that's also built on JYP making very good decisions for the last few years and also being a company that survived in K-Pop for two decades. And company power can make songs sound better than they are. If people think wine is more expensive they like it more. 

    An aside, it pains me when small companies schedule their comebacks right in the middle of several big company comebacks. It's such a dumb move to do that. Avoiding competition is a good decision if you're small.

     

    As I said in my previous posts there are three lanes I consider for Idol success; digital (MVs can go here), physical/album, and personal work like CFs, acting, solo stuff. A fourth could be touring/in person musical performances. For the IOI members overall-

    Digital Success - Not so good. 

    Physical Success - Good.

    Individual - Very Good.

    All things considered I think some of the companies are hitting above their weight since their members did get to be part of IOI. They are groups that without IOI would probably be in the sub-5k album sales range and would probably not get the individual gigs for their IOI members and would probably debut in the hundreds on Melon.

    • Like 1
  9. ok, you say waiting for 2021 is a good call, you will brag about them on forums. and i said what i said.

     

    I said If they come back in 2021 with all the members and a plan with promotions and schedules that's well thought out, I'll buy their album, watch their MV and shows, and tell everyone they're the best ever on forums. You're not going to?

  10. again, checking the song out of curiousity is not giving support. a girl like me was a good song and debuted as high as wonderland. in the end, nothing was changed. now everytime it gets worse because their fandoms are shrinking too.

    and again, if you read the comments of that article you could clearly see that they are against a renuion, any kind of. half assed, full assed, with somi, without somi or with jesus christ himself. so it's not about being half assed or not.

     

    you asked that why i'm saying people think they should finish their careers in their groups while they say they will come together in 2021. here is my answer and prediction: because it will be too late for that. pristin is dead, dia will be no more next year, then gugudan and year after that, weki meki. in 2021 we gonna have 4 dead groups in our hands. of course there will be tons of new faces in the sector. hype gonna be all dead too. so i'm afraid an i.o.i reunion gonna be only for old i.o.i fans like us if that really happens. maybe they go a chicken restaurant together.

    that's when people gonna say "they are failures".

     

    In the digital arena you get support if your song is liked by the public. What being in IOI got the groups was an opportunity for the public to check out their songs. That's a big leg up on the competition. Not every group gets that. Lots of groups debut in the depths. But it doesn't guarantee that the public will keep listening to your song after that initial period of checking it out. That requires having a good A&R team to pick a song that they think the public will like. That's a skill, it's not gambling. That is why good decision making is important. You can't live off luck and past glory. If that's your business plan you're going to be unhappy. You have to keep making decisions that build off whatever bump or recognition you had. And I don't think a lot of the companies are capable of that. They make mistimed or short sighted decisions. 

     

    If I read the message from the article and then read the responses some of them make sense. Because you have to go back to the article. And it's a poor sounding article. We know why now, because YG is an asshole. But it's not an article that would inspire good reactions or confidence in the IOI brand. Keep the memories in the past? Sure, if what was presented is the plan.

     

    If they come back in 2021 with all the members and a plan with promotions and schedules that's well thought out, I'll buy their album, watch their MV and shows, and tell everyone they're the best ever on forums. 

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