milk-caramel

If they fully commit to them actually being in a romantic relationship I really don't think I can be mad at it either GIVE ME ALL THE DRAMA CLICHES.

I haven't even watched the drama yet (from fear of queerbaiting and last minute anger/heartbreak) but going off drama tropes, I am almost expecting Takuya to be about to leave to go back to Japan, when Joonjae rushes to the airport and makes it there just in time to confess his feelings so they can live happily ever after forever and ever~

There are definitely a lot of people like that, which is unfortunate because it truly makes the rest of us look bad But then at the same time some 'anti-sjw' groups on Tumblr are just as bad if not worse.

I completely agree with Hanryu and I definitely wasn't one of the people who negged him, but at the same time, I don't think it's fair for you to write off people who are critical of the music video as 'Tumblrites'. It's like people who accuse everyone of being a 'SJW' when they care about social issues like racism and transphobia. Yes, a woman's personal decisions should not reflect the decisions of every woman and yes she should be free to make those choices, but at the same time you have to be critical of the media and how it represents those choices. People aren't jumping to conclusions, or being oversensitive by doing that, they're being critical of a medium that has often misrepresented women as nothing more than an accessory to men which is a problem. Woosang is in the army right now (last time I checked anyway) but it is true that they used to share a room and it was known for how messy it was. I'm also convinced all the members (bar Juwon maybe) are gay and they were here to bestow their fabulous selves on the industry. Aoora's recent push of his hyper-sexualized image is... interesting, but I still stand by my initial thoughts about all of them

Oh my God, it is so true. On one hand they'll say that we 'shouldn't assume' or write theories about gay idols because it's 'disrespectful', but on the other hand they're fine reading fanfiction about their OTPs banging. Not that I personally have a problem with fanfiction - it's really just the hypocrisy I have an issue with.

Sadly ;;; They're fine with shipping and same sex fanservice (mostly), but when it comes down to it a lot of them are straight up homophobic.

You're totally right, it's just seems like they're everywhere It's truly exhausting.

It really does, though at least sexless is a somewhat neutral default. In this case when they blather on about "not assuming" or "not speculating" what they really mean is just assume everyone is straight until proven otherwise. So while they like to pretend they're taking some sort of moral high ground they're really not, they're just enforcing harmful heteronormative ideals and assuming that their biases are straight which is... just as bad I do understand some of their points and I too think some of them are valid, but at the same time I think they're way off. Like even if they're right in principle, the fact that they obviously still see being gay as something offensive just completely annihilates their argument. In my mind at least.

I am getting... so sick of it honestly. There are so many comments like this that are just completely nonsensical. Apparently being closeted isn't something that idols experience, oh no, they just aren't gay until they explicitly say they are. Because that's how that works. I have been in many other fandoms apart from the Kpop fandom and I can honestly say, the Kpop fandom is the only one that is this ridiculously and vehemently homophobic.

http://kpopkfans.blogspot.co.at/2015/05/gay-idols.html?m=1 Anyone feel like setting fire to the kpop fandom with me?

I look at it this way - SK as a whole is conservative, so no matter what field you work in and where in SK you work, as a gay person that's just the reality you have to face. But a lot of gay people are attracted to the arts in particular or enjoy performing because that field allows for such vast self expression. So if you know you're living in a conservative society either way, but have the chance to do something you love while being surrounded by other gay people I think it just makes sense that you would choose that. There is also a certain level of job security, even if it's minuscule.

He used to confuse me a lot more when he was younger. He debuted when he was quite young obviously, but he was never as out there as say Sungjong was when he was younger. He also never seemed entirely comfortable with his 'femininity' or how people viewed him as more effeminate than the other members. Now though, I can say with a lot of confidence that I think he's gay. I think he's come into his own a lot more with age. From observing him with his male backup dancers and other male idols from SM, I think he enjoys the attention he gets from them for lack of a better word and I think he enjoys flirting back as well I also think the issue was never that he was feminine or had a feminine image, it was that people treated him like a girl. Which was only amplified when he had his weave in for Sherlock. Gay men are obviously not women and no one likes being misgendered. I think that probably got to him a lot. Now though that he has solidified that he is in fact a dude, I think he's more comfortable as a whole and it shows.

Possibly JYP himself I kid, I kid. I can honestly say though, I have never spoken to a gay man who thought Jokwon was anything other than gay

[+168, -79] I'm gay so I can usually tell when another man is or not by their actions or how they carry themselves and I think Jo Kwon's just a feminine man. He's not gay. There are signs that we recognize ã…‹ã…‹ã…‹ I just laughed at this comment tbh Either this person is not gay and is just saying they are to cover Jokwon's ass (no pun intended) or they're completely oblivious to the fact that Jokwon has been seen at multiple gay clubs in recent months. I mean, what other signs do you need really?? Not that Jokwon doesn't show other signs of being gay, but... really.

Oh, completely. In fact, from what I have observed it happened quite similarly with the both of them. They chopped off their hair first (which for some reason translates as such a "manly", straight thing to do in the minds of so many fans) and then they started talking about how much they work out and people started going on and on about them being 'real men' Thank you for lightening up the mood though, it's definitely needed I think Don't worry, Sunggyu isn't bothered Oh I definitely wouldn't say that. What I found with what Joey said in his book (spoilers??? I guess if you haven't read it and still wish to) is that it's reflective of what many gay content creators and entertainers in general in this industry go through. I think a lot of them are afraid to come out, not just because of the obvious reasons, but also because they're afraid that once they come out the only thing anyone will focus on is who they're attracted to and not the work they produce. Some of them just want their work to stand on it's own, which I do understand. At the same time though, I figure people are going to be talking about it anyway - it'll just be speculation instead of cold hard facts. Anyway, I'm proud that Joey did what he did. He took the situation back into his own hands and did this for himself when he was ready, which I find very admirable

To be fair, I think it's more that we miss the way those three used to be, because they've all changed considerably since then and for some of them I don't think it was a willing change. That's not to discredit any of the new boys who are fabulous though, I mean I salute them!! Bring home the torch babies.

I don't know if you're Australian yourself (sorry for assuming, it is always particularly hard to tell on the internet) but I have personally never seen Australian straight boys use humour like that. If they ever do it's usually to mock being gay and I definitely wasn't getting that feeling from Hanbyul in this instance. Like, it's usually a case of "Oh do you want a boyfriend mate? I always knew you liked dick in your mouth". That's obviously just an example, but it's not much of an exaggeration - at least from what I have encountered living here for 19 years of my life. I've certainly never seen any straight Aussie boys follow that up by saying "Don't look far" in such a... matter-of-fact way. Not to say you're wrong about Hanbyul, but if it is his sense of humour I don't think it has much to do with him being from here. I haven't seen the actual post itself, so I really can't make an accurate judgement call on why that would be Unless you inadvertently implied that people in there aren't funny, but even then I feel like that's a stretch. I feel you though, you literally start to question every single thing you say before you say it. You wonder if you really are saying something horribly offensive without even realizing it, but when you ask you get negged more or told to not worry about it. It's really hard not to worry about it, but the more you try the easier it is to not feel like you're walking around on eggshells

I know what you mean. I've only been to the bashing thread once or twice admittedly, but y'know, with a place entitled 'bashing thread' you have to expect some keyboard warriors to come out of the woodwork. Also because you're not technically supposed to get defensive up in there people use negs to get their feelings out. I am glad you're not going to let a few people deter you though, because from what I have seen you are a perfectly nice reasonable person

Oh I certainly wouldn't say that!! There are some really wonderful people on here. There is an angry minority and some trolls as well, but I think that's true for any forum on the internet really. Especially fandom-related forums. I have been in your position before though in the sense that I was afraid to comment at one stage because of the negs. Don't let it stop you though. As long as you know you're not going out of your way to be offensive or hurtful just do you

Thank you In hindsight I should never have even mentioned it, but y'know what they say about hindsight...

Well... I was once described as an energizer bunny on crack. So quite apparently I don't

I apologize to everyone else in here for dragging this in here. I don't intend to further it. I have said my piece what anyone else does with it is entirely up to them.