milk-caramel

  This is very OT so it's going under a spoiler.   [spoiler] I don't know how you can say labels are essential and then turn around and call other people fake for using labels that make them comfortable. If they experience attraction that isn't of a heterosexual nature and someone tells them what they're experiencing isn't real, or that it's just for attention that is the very definition of oppression. Also if a bisexual person is in a relationship with the opposite sex they are not "choosing a heteronormative lifestyle" they are still bisexual. Bisexual people still get kicked out of their houses, they still experience discrimination. There really are no more benefits, unless the person is closeted.    The reason you get doxed for saying you don't believe in being trans, is because it's the very same thing as saying you don't believe that being gay is real. You are trying to invalidate someone's identity even though they are a part of our community (there is a reason it's the LGBT community) and despite the fact that it's real enough for young kids to be killing themselves when they can't transition.    Bisexual people and trans people are not kicking us out of our community. This is a community that they have also been a part of since the beginning of the gay rights movement, they have the very same right to be here as we do. [/spoiler]   Sorry about that guys  :._.:

  Well not necessarily gay strictly, but it does suggest an attraction to women at the very least because butch girls are still women. To consider it anything else would be to misgender them just because they present a certain way. 

  That's so true!! A lot of fans - I would dare to say the majority even - want Moonstal to happen because it's really obvious that Moonbyul is into her.    At the same time I would dare to say Moonsun is/could be a thing, so there is a definitely conflict of interest there. For me at least  :lol:

At this point I am thoroughly convinced that the entirety of Mamamoo are v gay

I've never really felt that he was Infinite's gayest member, but it still would have been nice if he was there

/slides into the thread Geeze, it's been a while But I come bearing gifts

That's so cool!! As an Australian myself I am so proud of how well he's done for himself and I truly adore his personality as well Kevin on the other hand... deep sigh. I really used to like him too, but the more he kept up with the homophobic bullshit my love for him waned a whole lot. Maybe he is closeted, but there is a way to be closeted without being an absolute asshole to other gay people.

It may not mean a lot, but I apologize for the lesbians who are less than welcoming of bisexual girls It likely comes from their own insecurities that their girlfriend is going to leave them for someone with something most of them can't provide her with - a dick - but that doesn't excuse it. If their girlfriend is the cheating type then they just are, bisexuality has nothing to do with it. They could just as easily be cheated on by another lesbian who wants someone else. That super bothers me I don't mind idols who choose an aversion to anything that might spark suspicion if that's what they want, but to push that on other idols is just kind of... gross and out of line. Especially in Kevin's case because it makes him a total hypocrite!! Tell me Kevin, was Eli a girl all those times you pretended to kiss him? Or does it not count because you said "don't misunderstand" 1000 times afterwards? THIS is precisely why I miss Hanbyul on the show. It was still an awkward, cheesy show, but him and Eric had such a good rapport it made it much more enjoyable to watch. Not only that, but Hanbyul never hesitated to flirt with Eric or flirt with the male guests and he never pulled any #nohomo shit afterwards. Like honestly let's just bring him back.

I think you're assuming a lot from one small sentence. Nowhere did Nias say "Oh my God, Sungjong is feminine, how dare you not think he's gay?" in fact... femininity wasn't mentioned at all. You're the only one bringing that up. The point is, if after all this time that poster in question hasn't once seen Sungjong look attracted to the same sex then they're probably never going to see it.

Well first of all I'll say if one of my biases did show discomfort over being asked that I would most likely quit stanning them. I would rather put my time and energy into someone who isn't repulsed by me and other LGBT people (fans and peers included). That being said, I would take what those Sungjong fans say with a grain of salt. They're always trying to find ways to justify their homophobic bullshit, so if they can justify it by saying the rumors are hurting Sungjong they're going to. All the while they ignore that when he was at his happiest they continuously told him he needed to be "manlier" and that is precisely when he started looking miserable.

I did find it. Admittedly I'm not totally sold that any of it suddenly makes him not homophobic though. Because in fairness there are a lot of homophobes who have "close" gay friends, so he still could be a raging homophobe. I'm not necessarily saying he is though. Either way some of his actions have been homophobic and whether they reflect his overall attitude or not they should be acknowledged for what they were anyway.

I do see what you mean!! I don't have video to back this up (unfortunately) but I do recall him being quite defensive at first when the interviewer asked him if he liked girls.

I have heard nothing about him being good friends with HSC, but feel free to enlighten me (I mean that genuinely)

More accurately what didn't he do... 1. He told a male fan who told him he loved him that men should love women. 2. He refused to be friends with HSC. 3. He was asked if he likes women and his response was "Of course I do, all men like women" - I cannot find the original video of that for the life of me though.

Yes, unfortunately it really happened alright. Here is a link - the atrocity starts at about the 8:45 mark

Um... a good percentage of people think Myungsoo is gay. Not necessarily because of that, but that's not what that post that you quoted was about anyway

Exactly!! It's really not seen as a gay thing. It's the same reason male idols get away with crossdressing on variety shows. It's either played for a laugh or because the person is playing a character - it's in no way seen as a reflection of that person's sexuality.

Precisely~ It's just treated as a gag or a practical joke if you will.

In my experience it's because it's just seen as something fun/funny for Korean guys to do and laugh about. Now, if you were going to live as someone who seriously crossdresses in Korea that's another thing entirely and you would be met with tons of discrimination and backlash.

Oh, no doubt about it. Though from observing him, like Taemin it does seem to bother him when people treat him like a girl. If I was to put my own two cents in I would say I think it's more likely that he's non-binary though. Seems like it was just him having fun with his friends Dress up days/activities like that are fairly normal at Korean schools.

They're all from his time at school, so that's pretty much what he was doing predebut~ But he did still present as a boy predebut Not that I would have an issue if he was trans obviously, but while he has never explicitly said he's straight and has kept his answers ambiguous in that regard he has always been very clear that he identifies as a male.

I fear the same Infinite have mentioned Sungjong's health conditions such as his poor eyesight impacting his service in the future, but I doubt the public will give a shit about that. They already talk enough shit about Sungjong, this will just give them more of a chance to tbh. With gender it's quite a lot harder to tell because being stereotypically masculine or feminine often isn't indicative of how someone identifies. There is quite a lot more to it than that. I myself am certain there are trans idols, but it's generally easier to tell if someone is attracted to the same sex than it is to tell what gender they identify as unless they themselves have said so.

I think it's important to look at why the show is called 'Real Men' and how that ties into the concept though. The implication is if you go off to the army and finish your service you are in turn a 'real man'. Why? Not only because it's expected of Korean men to serve, but also because the army itself is very centered around hyper-masculinity. The show might only be simulating what army life is like, but it's really the same principle.

Oh Krystal, always so subtle :lol:

I do see what you mean. But having watched a lot of anime and dramas in my time I have seen whole story lines wrap up in one or two episodes before. It might not be the fleshed out romance the viewers want to see, but if anything it might at least end up resolved one way or another. Having said that this is why I personally haven't started watching yet, because as much as I want them to go through with this there is always a chance they won't and I don't want to be left angry and frustrated over it.