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Welcome to the thread @hyeongstop! I was excited with you that hyeongseop followed you, especially since you have KeySeop and all over your twitter, lol. And hyeongseop calling Key "kibummie" is just too cute. <3

 

 

Also, new videos of Hyeongseop and his model friends

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's official now, with over 4500 views, we are currently the most viewed thread in the Couples/OTPs forum!

 

I can't believe I didn't know about this thread. D:

 

Welcome to the thread! Well, it's a fairly new thread, but apparantly a popular one too.

 

 

 

And I will leave this here. A different side of hyeongseop I hadn't seen before.

 

I don't think this photo was posted here yet. So here's another photo of hyeongseop in the "couple shirt":

The poor boy seemed very confused, and quite... gay? Imho. ;)

 

Well, I got the feeling Jae was a bit... annoyed by the heteronormativity of the second concert. I really wouldn't be surprised if he's the first k-pop idol to come out.

 

I remember that! I had pretty much recovered from his speaking to me by that time. Pretty much. XD

 

 

Write as much as you want! *anticipates*

 

Oh, so these things really did happen at the concert. LOL. When I was reading some fan accounts on twitter, I was beginning to wonder how true they were because it all just made Jae seem soo obviously gay. But I guess he actually was. I wouldn't be surprised if Jae comes out too, but I wonder how this may effect Yunho (since YunJae is so popular), and if this is one of the factors Jae would consider if he thought about coming out.

 

And do you remember what the context was for him kissing that drawing of a guy at the concert?

 

I'll write a lot about Jae soon. I already have lots of gifs and videos gathered...just have to organize them. I halted things earlier when my Key essay was going around fandom and being torn apart by others (and that kinda scared me off from doing another analysis, lol), but I'm over that now, and am resuming the one I started for Jae.

 

I was only skipping through the episodes, but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

PLOT SPOILER:

 

Right now it looks like the older guy is not even gay, and he only took care of the younger one because he caused the car accident that killed his parents and he felt sorry for him.

 

I have no idea why did they even decided to go with the gay theme in the first place. It seemed fake right from the beginning. There was no chemistry and no romantic interaction between those two at all. They acted like father and son throughout the whole series. And there's only two episodes left, so I'm sure this won't change, especially now that the younger one has found out about the truth.

 

 

Thanks for this. I was wondering if there was something else to their relationship (because it seems so off), but then I stopped watching after the 2nd or 3rd episode. I just couldn't get into any of the characters (especially the father and his supposed gay lover). But I guess there wasn't anything to really get into in the first place.

 

 

Thank you for the spoiler! I am so glad I gave up on that drama when I did, it sounds very stupid.

 

I would also like to thank everyone else who responded to me. I would quote some of you guys too, but I haven't figured out how to MultiQuote yet because I'm silly.

 

Also, I would like to point out that the first page has She is Wow down as a drama about homosexuality. I think it should be removed from the list, because it obviously isn't really about homosexuality at all.

 

To multi quote, instead of clicking on "Quote", click on "MultiQuote" for every post you want to reply to. Then when you are done, click on "Reply to # quoted post(s)"

 

And I think "She is Wow" could stay in the OP since it does touch on the topic of homosexuality in the beginning, at least. (And Coffee Prince is also there...which is also pseudo-homosexuality). But I agree, the plot turned out to be something that sounds very stupid.

 

 

It's late here and I'm making pointless posts because my brain is already aspleep... asleep, I think. But I just thought I'd mention that having been to Jaejoong's concert today and yesterday, I'm more convinced than ever that he's gay. And it sort of feels like... an oddly open secret? So much talk of fanboys and suggestive jokes and whatnot. Also, you know how sometimes it's easier to read someone (if they ping) if you look into their eyes. Well, I did. Admittedly, my brain fried when he spoke to me, but there was definite pinging. Or maybe that was just an error signal in my vacated head. Who knows? XD

 

I should sleep now. Just felt like mentioning it. Oh, and squeeing about how Jaejoong spoke to me. That too. ;D

 

Of course, not making any definite claims about JJ's sexuality. Only observations. Will add that disclaimer, for good measure.

 

Wow, I'm happy you got to attend both days of his concert and he spoke to you. I've been reading some of the fan-accounts from the concert. There's mention of him asking a 17yo boy if he wanted to eat him?? And the boy nodded his head. LOL. Did this seriously happen?    And Jae realized the boy was with his mom, but Jae thought he looked older.

 

I also feel that Jae being gay is an open secret. The thing that strikes me most is that he jokes about things being gay (or he's aware that other people think something is gay or that people consider certain behaviors inappropriate for guys)...yet he goes out and continues to do said "gay" thing. So either he's very gay and can't help himself, or he's very confident about his sexuality as a straight man and has no shame about what other people think (but he comes off as an insecure/lonely person to me, so I don't think this is the case).

 

I was reading accounts about the "back-hugging" thing too. At the concert, they showed this picture of Jae and his manager back-hugging him:

 

 

And this is an account of what the MC said to him regarding the photo:

"MC said it's a bit weird for two men to hug together, but Jaejoong said it's just for the fanmeet. (Cr: 金在中点康)"

 

I can recall many similar instances like this, where the interviewer tells Jae something like "Isn't it weird for guys to be doing this" yet always, Jae doesn't care and continues to act "gay". I love him. (Probably irrelevant, but I saw a video of him chasing girls around backstage, but he

, lol). And I also remember, once Jae mentioned how kissing a guy is gay, yet he goes out and kisses guys. He even kissed a picture of a guy at the recent concert:

 

 

 

 

Well....I feel like going off into an essay about Jae right now. lol. Anyways, I still remember telling someone in this thread that I was going to write an analysis for Jae (like I did with Key). I was apprehensive at first (since my Key essay inadvertently started a fanwar and I don't want anything similar happening here). But I have to write about Jae, he provides me with so much material, lol. At the very least, I'm probably going to just gather and organize everything into a single post, and try to leave my commentary at a minimum.

KeySeop is realer than I imagined.

 

...the fact that he has to be aware of the pairing now, yet doesn't seem to mind.

^^ He really does look like Onew and Key's lovechild.

 

 hmm...do you know when this was recorded?

honestly it's pretty rare I see Key wearing the same clothes more than once or twice. I think maybe there's really something there....:O

 

It's in Japan from a TV show called "Performance A" that was aired yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnvJoGUxEw

 

Yeah, it's really strange that he's wearing that shirt so much during such a short period of time. Hyeongseop also wore it at least 2 different occasions this month (and he also used a photo of him wearing that shirt as his twitter icon, but very briefly).

 

I have a theory that Hyeongseop complimented Key on the shirt when he wore it at mama miya. Key felt flattered by it and took Hyeongseop shopping to buy him the same shirt, since he really likes it. So the shirt is special for both of them. Key wears it alot recently because it reminds him of hyeonseop's compliment.to him (which made him feel good). And it also seems special to hyeonseop since the first thing he uploaded after their shopping trip was him wearing that shirt, and he even made it his twitter icon briefly.

Hi! I'm new to the forum! You can call me Inu if you want (I know it means dog in Japanese but.... yeah.) I just wanted to see if any of you guys could help me out! 

 

This is Onew coming out of a Hyatt hotel last year. Supposedly it's in Itaewon and very close to Homo Hill.

http://www.travelgayasia.com/gay-seoul-luxury-hotels/

 

Does anyone know when the picture was taken or if it's even legit? I remember seeing it on tumblr last year but not really paying close attention to it before. Thanks!

 

It was taken on May 21, 2012, and shinee was in LA for the SM Town concert on this date.

http://forevershiningshinee.net/post/23591921411/stalking-onew-120521-stalking-onew-120521

 

And welcome to the forum.

I can't act cute for too long because I turn...

 

 

 

...into a ghost.

 

My hair has a life of its own.

 

 

I like how it starts off cute and then transitions into the girl from the grudge.

 

 

And I once posted a photo of myself in some community...and there actually was someone who recognized me from real life.    It made me paranoid to post any pics of myself ever since, lol.

^ I'm watching that part again, and am suddenly excited that Key now has someone who loves fashion/clothes as much as he does...that he can go shopping with and talk about fashion to.

 

And welcome to the thread kilumi! I love your keyseoplove tumblr. You keep the #KeySeop tag a happy place (as it should be). Thanks for linking to us too.

If Taeyang or TOP was gay that would make my life!!

 

It'd make this cameraman happy too...

 

 

 

I would like to make a request

I do not know much about block b and beast I'd like to know who you think you are gay in these groups

 

My opinion about Shinhwa:

 

the more I see Eric, Andy and Dongwan most I think they are gay

 

Hyesung and minwoo fill me with doubt also

 

the Junjin I think it's straight or bi

 

sorry for my bad english

 

 

 

I have no speculations on any of them since I don't know much about them either, but watch Dongwoon's dance @ 1:00

(you can check out the other member's dance solos too)

 

omfg i can see key on the side because of his fluffy blonde hair. 

he did start to laugh when hyeongseop came up 

 

  Ohh, I didn't catch that while watching the first time (it's @ 11:22 for anyone wondering). So this confirms it is Hyeongseop he was laughing at!   ...because you can see PHS in the gold jacket come out from backstage, and Key puts his head down right when PHS steps out.

 

I went on a hunting spree for cams of this F/W and I found this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xQ_Yx7Xo9uk#t=50s

 

at 0:50, you can see Key at the bottom, he lowers his head and laughs when seeing Hyeongseop 

 

Wow, you guys have really good eyes. Took me a while to find Key in this one too, lol.

 

 

In my hunting, I found this fancam, of the full dominic's way runway, BUT

THE CAMERAMAN CLOSES IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE FUCKING RIGHT TIME

(in the first time that hyeongseop appears and key reacts and in the end where hooded PHS appears and key laughs. It's when he's turning back to stop at the stairs)

In the second time PHS appears, Key doesn't reacts at all.

Please guys, watch carefully, my eyes could have missed something~ 

 

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiuXKjmxN5U[/media]

 

I've seen this one before. PHS comes out at 2:45 and 7:09 and at the end @ 11:07

 

You can see his reaction for that video here:

@2:32 matches with @2:45 above

 

 

 

@ 0:09 matches with @ 7:09 above

@ 0:35 matches with @ 11:07 above (you can see Key trying to hide his smile @ 0:45 )

 

 

 

Yep, I just went and created gif for this, lol

 

 

 

And since I'm on a gif-creating spree....I did some of Hyeongseop:

 

oh, and heres another reaction to key seeing hyeongseop on the runway. i'm pretty sure it is because all the models are walking down the runway at the time

 

 

 

@11 seconds. 

ugh why did the person cut after though ;; 

 

I'm going to add this video to my essay and timeline.

 

And I did some research and I'm sure it was Hyeongseop he was looking at. In your video, before Key's reaction, you see a model wearing purple, then one in plaid and finally one in red (which Key is looking behind). Then it gets cut and you now see Key looking away when there is a model in brown.

 

Here' s the video of the runway. Start at 11:27 and you see a model in purple, plaid, red....then Hyeongseop! ...and then the model in brown shows up right after (So Key wasn't even paying attention to the models on the runway before or after Hyeonseop, lol). So cute.

god damnit. now i have to start looking into them, too, for having an awesome LGBT-supporting member.

 

my poor itunes...

 

 

I saw them on the recent episode of Inkigayo and didn't pay much attention to them at that time...but now that I came across this tweet, I'm looking more into them too, lol.

 

They are part of Big Hit Entertainment company. This is the same company that GLAM and 2AM/JoKwon is under (and K.Will was a former artist at this company). And I just looked up the other artist they have (David Oh) and found an article about him and the President of Big Hit Ent. attending a Lady Gaga concert together. So I think they are a very LGBTQ friendly company.

A tweet in March from one of the members of BTS (Rap Monster): https://twitter.com/BTS_twt/status/309196138689490944; http://bangtan-o.tumblr.com/post/44737099708/130306-twitter-bts-twt

 

[TRANS] It’s Rap Monster. A song about homosexuality. I heard this song before but I didn’t know the lyrics, now I know them and I like the song twice as much. I recommend Macklemore & Ryan Lewis - Same Love. http://hiphople.com/subtitle/619392

 

 

Yeah I saw some posts about him but not that many I think he's still too unknown & I found that post which you meant:

"The father of my friend works in the entertainment industry. He's one of the persons who made that famous idol couple show some years ago (I think she means Love Letter). My friend prepared to become a girl group member with the help of her father so she often saw & met celebritys. She also often heard rumours when she was a trainee. And that friend said she heard that Infinite's Nam Woohyun is gay."

 

hahaha wtf xD

Hyoengseop: Ya! I told you not to walk around in hot pants, in hotpants! Changkyeong!

Changkyeong: Don't laugh.

 

Yeah, that was the post I saw (but I was using google translate at that time, lol), so it's great to see a better translation now. Thanks!

 

I wonder what Hyeongseop thought of Key's hot pants he wore a few days ago...

 

 

edit:well hyeongseop's new photo is going to start some things??

 

The girl is a model who works with him. Here's some photos of them in the same photoshoot:

(I think she's the one in the yellow dress)

 

I hope they don't though. They may look very ridiculous while doing so. They argument that Keyseop shippers think Key fucks with everybody then they come and say Hyeongseop fucks with everybody? I hope they don't do it at all. lol  

 

lol, exactly. It wouldn't be very wise of them to do so.

Okay

 

Don't bash me I'm just translating some posts And I think some of them are ridicioulous & you shouldn't believe everything -_-

 

So basically this are the one who they supspect the most: Key, Ryeowook, Sungmin, Jokwon, Taemin, Yunho, Jaejoong, Kevin, Sungjong, Park Jung Min (I think there are more, just wrote the ones who appear the most.)

 

This are some post from people:

 

 

1. There's one person who says that her friend works in the music industry and knows many celebritys. So she asked her if she knew some gay idols but her friend didn't wanted to directly say who, so she just said that there are 2 gay people in SS501.

She thinks that one of them is definitely Park Jung Min and she's not sure about the other one.

 

2. This person also says that she knows someone in the industry. She heard that: Kevin & Soohyun (U-Kiss) date/dated, Key is bi, Jonghyun's & Shin Sekyung's relationship was fake, in 2009 Baek Ji Young said that a gay couple existed right now & it has to be someone from Shinee, MBLAQ, B2st or U-Kiss. Yoo Ah In is gay (Actor)

Some other person said that: Minho & Yuri dated, Jonghyun & Jessica dated. And his/her homeroom teacher said that Gongyoo (actor) is gay (LOL. )

 

 

Just a random post, so this are just his own suspects

3. Okay so the next one is from a gay guy. This are all just his thoughts & assumptions. At the beginning he explains that not all gay guys act feminine and that there are masculine gays too but it's most likely that those with feminine gestures and speeches are gay because he himself also acted so feminine like that in his school days and that his friends started to notice it so he tried to fix it.

   1. Kwanghee (ZE:A), Nowadays he's often seen in variety shows and the way he speaks and acts is very feminine, and it doesn't seem like he's behaving like this on purpose just for entertainment.

   2. Jokwon (2AM),

   3. Ryeowook (SuJu), When I watched him on Immortal Song I saw how feminine his actions and speech are. Also the way he's moving his mouth when he's lipsyncing is very feminine(?), the way he's dancing too. Don't know what to say more if you watch his performance you just see it immediately.

   4. Park Jung Min (SS501), Gestures, actions & speech very feminine (He said here that he's tired to write it all down so he just writes this.)

   5. Kevin (U-Kiss), Gestures, actions & speech very feminine

   6. L (Infinite), I'm not really sure because he doesn't often come out on variety shows but there are many videos of him where he hugs his member Sungyeol. Of course other groups also do this kind of things all the time but..Idk sometimes gay people can just sense it if other people are gay. First of all he doesn't show any interest for girls and when you watch the videos you see that he doesn't do it for a short amount of time like other fanservices and it seemes as if he hugs him because he likes him for real.

  7. L.Joe ( Teen Top), All of his gestures are very feminine ex) when he stands his legs are like this ↗ ↖ (LOOL XDD ) anyway.. don't know what to say he doesn't show any interest in girls at all, likes skinship with members and others.. Kiss with Ricky, Backhug with Chunji & Sungjong, usually when I watch his stages I always think of the word 'gay' and since I saw the show with Teen Top & 100% I'm almost sure that he's gay. And at the time when they were promoting Supaluv they filmed one show on a cable channel & since then I was suspicious of him.

  8. Rokhyun (100%), The way he speaks & acts is very feminine, while watching TT & 100%'s show I started to become suspicious

  9. Junjin (Shinhwa), he's working out and has a very masculine and tough image but he can't deceive my eyes.

  10. & 11. Ren & Baekho (Nu'Est) Baekho always tries to kiss & hug Ren, when he sleeps he's also hugging him

 

 

Thanks for sharing. Do you know if Woohyun is speculated alot? I remember seeing a post from someone who said her friend's dad works in the music industry, and there are talks of him being gay backstage. I also saw his name brought up during the Dispatch gay idol rumor.

 

And can you roughly translate what is said in this short clip? (It's Hyeongseop recording a guy wearing hot pants . So gay.)

https://vine.co/v/hBtFWnaFW5h

 

 

it must be that he points his feet and/or knees together a lot. i don't know if it has much significance in the western world (i think pointing feet inward or outward is vaguely considered "incorrect," but doesn't have much more meaning than that), but in at least japan and korea it's super feminine.

 

like... just look at any anime with female characters in it (idk any that don't). chances are, at least one of them will be advertised as "the cute one" and point her legs together. (also, many strong, "masculinely" written female characters will still have moments where they blush or become shy and turn their legs inward)

 

it's just part of body language there.

 

examples of what it looks like:

 

 

look at the two on the right:

 

far right:

 

second girl from the left:

 

 

Ah, I was confused on that leg thing too. That makes sense to me now.

can i quote a comment from the AFF thing? 

 

"Its kinda stupid because they (keyseop shippers) make key seem like a slut." 

 

ok wtf. we never said that key is sleeping around with multiple men ok. we never said hes having threesomes or whatever. 

 

btw, im new on this forum...is there any way to post pics, not using URLs? from saved pics on your computer? omfg im such a noob..

 

I've noticed it's the anti-KeySeop people who even considered that as a possibility in the first place. The idea that key fucks every guy he's spotted with never came into my mind...yet this is what the person on AFF wrote about KeySeop shippers:

 

 

 

 

Sadly, there are people who will read that and take it as what KeySeop shippers actually believe, so that's probably where the comment came from. Some claim "just because they share clothes, hang out and are in photos together doesn't mean they're fucking" ...and of course not, I don't think anyone disagrees with that statement, yet they are the ones who bring up this idea in the first place. -_-

 

But Key is a social butterfly and has been spotted and photographed with numerous people, and no fuss was ever made about it. So it's not just a few photos and being spotted together, it's a whole timeline of events and interactions....that when put together, are pretty convincing to some people. Plus, even if Key and PHS are not dating, they still have a very close and special friendship that Key doesn't exhibit towards many of his other non-Idol friends (and since Hyeongseop is not an Idol, all their interactions can't be excused as just "fanservice").

 

* Anyway, I just felt the need to respond to the AFF post again because she was directly commenting about me and the posts I made. Plus, I'm still a little pissed that she plagiarized parts of my essay in her post, distorted what I was saying and ended up making a point that I don't even agree with, lol. 

So PHS has a vine and he tweeted this vine video today (but he later deleted it, not sure why). I think it's Hyeongseop's voice in the clip...

 

“@sc1676: 핫팬츠 https://vine.co/v/hBtFWnaFW5h â€

[TRANS] Hot Pants

 

 

And some video spam of PHS:

 

I like this video because you can see how he is naturally, just messing around with friends

 

A video where we can hear PHS's talking more

 

Hair commercials

 

This one reminds me of

Found this large gif set of Heechul and his view on marriage. Including the Morgan Freeman ahjussi part... that made me laugh so hard. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol, I love Heechul.

 

Hi. I'm new here.

 

So ehm.. if you guys are curious which idols knetizens suspect I could try to translate some of them for you. Ah but my korean is not that good so yeah.. maybe I can't translate everything correctly But from what I've seen they almost suspect the same people as we Some of them also claim that they know someone who knows someone who works for example in that industry and they say it's 100% true ..but eh.. don't know if we can really trust them haha so don't take it too serious

 

Welcome! That's cool, I'm interested in what knetizens think too (and I'm relieved to know that we're not completely off if koreans also have the same speculations as us, lol).

 

 

I'm coming here looking for you, BOOM!!

 

Hey there! I'm seeing quite a few people I remember from AKP joining in here recently. Hope you stay here and contribute too. 

I remember about this, but I thought it was going to be released something actual like "[bREAKING] Idol one and idol two scandal", etc... It didn't happened. If it was really about Key, did SM foiled their plan?

 

Do you guys know about Yuri lesbian rumor with Son Ye Jin and Han Ye Seul? So, it was posted as a blind item and it was quickly deleted. Still, people saw it. And as far as I got to know, Jonghyun and Shin Sekyung's scandal was pretty much on the same period (as well as TaecSica thing, so it could be due to both or one of them).

So, my thoughts are, the history is repeating. A rumor that could possibly cause a scandal and the company using another member as a cover-up. 

 

There was a dating scandal released by Dispatch, but it wasn't really scandalous and it definately didn't live up to the hype that they've built. It's possible that this story was merely their backup story (because SM foiled their actual "gay idol" story). Quite a few netizens seem to think this because Dispatch is known for releasing alot of major scandals, but this one was pretty weak considering how they've hyped it up.

 

And I did hear about the Yuri lesbian rumor that got deleted on SportsSeoul. I wouldn't be surprised if it was SM that contacted SS for the article to be deleted. Apparantly, they've done it before on AKP for the "Who's gay in kpop?" thread... management contacted johnny to have that thread deleted because of some gay rumors that they didn't want floating around. I think this was during the same time as the Yuri lesbian rumor (and there were probably lots of discussions about that rumor in the thread). So companies are aware of gay rumors about their Idols and actively work to shut it down...and I guess WGM plays a part in this.

How the fuck this thread have over 1,500 views already o.o

 

Wut....and this thread was only created 3 days ago. This is seriously the 2nd most viewed shipping thread on here (and the most viewed one has been around since May 3). Who are all you lurkers? (Please join us )

 

 

WOW. That's FISHY. Did you got the blind item itself? 

Omfg, Dispatch... I always see K-netizens saying "I only believe Dispatch" LOL This is really a serious matter.

 

Guys, it has occurred to my mind... I don't know if it ever occurred to yours, don't laugh at me, but...

WHAT IF Taemin was cast into WGM because of this? (don't hate me for being such a 'anti' for this show ahahahah I swear I won't talk much about this anymore...) Because I mean, he was cast all of a sudden and I don't really see a reason why SM put him into this. It isn't good for their image and you guys know about everything...

Aaand, he was cast in mid April...

 

Here's the netizenbuzz article: http://netizenbuzz.blogspot.com/2013/04/dispatch-announces-new-exclusive.html

 

They didn't mention anything about a gay Idol, just that they have "A new exclusive unlike any other to be released." And on the photo collage, you can see two male figures on each side. So many netizens with an imagination thought it was a gay couple that was going to be released (since it's "unlike any other"). You can see some people speculating about it here: http://www.instiz.net/bbs/list.php?id=pt&no=1147078 (ê²Œì´ is "gay" and ë™ì„±ì•  is "homosexuality", and you can find those 2 words mentioned a lot in the comment section)

 

And if you searched for "Dispatch Gay Idol" during April, you would find "Key" in the top related searches. I guess so many people were talking about this gay Idol rumor that Dispatch officially addressed it here: https://twitter.com/dispatchsns/status/324045911615483904 (clarifying that they have no gay idol story)

 

 

I don't know why Taemin was cast for WGM, but it does seem like many people who do WGM have gay rumors surrounding them.

If there are k-netizens speculating, then it's somewhat of a serious business. I wish I knew Korean to find more about it T___________T

 

Actually, I just realized something while trying to find the comments. There was another rumor that happened soon after the "'model/singer falling in love overseas" rumor (and K-netizens definately speculated it to be about Key). It's the Dispatch Gay Idol rumor, where people thought Dispatch was going to reveal a gay couple. And I'm certain K-netizens speculated Key, because "Dispatch Gay Idol Key" was the top related search when searching about that rumor on naver. I remember browsing and seeing speculations, one specific comment mentioned that the Dispatch gay idol scandal was going to involve a love triangle between Key, Hyeongseop and Woohyun. So even in S.Korea, they've entertained the idea that Key and PHS could be dating.

 

Also, the Dispatch gay idol(or gay couple revealed) rumor happened in April (the period where KeySeop was silent). So there was more than one rumor during this period that could have caused Key and PHS to hide from the public. I should probably add this rumor to the KeySeop timeline also.