fire_dagwon

It's debatable but I think Eb5 for sopranos and Bb4 for tenors.

Unfortunately no, but I think the Eb5 at the end may have been.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he was, Michael Buble might be a tenor who sings in a baritone range. That's quite convincing, I'll give you that. And I'll be completely honest, I think that the idea that baritones are the most common male voice type is a myth or something. To me, it seems clear that tenors are by far and away the most common male voice type. See that's the kind of dark sexiness I was talking about before. Something about a true baritone belting in that G#4/A4 range just hits different. Convincing and hilarious. I think I love you. Thank you. Just because someone is an opera singer doesn't mean their word is gospel. I'm not claiming to know better than them, but most of the time they're very clearly wrong. A-fucking-men. Aw man that sucks to hear but your health comes first of course. I hope you get well soon!

Wow thanks Baz! Honestly if anyone here knew it was probably you lol. Yeah they're all about what I expected, perhaps except for maybe Kim Tae Woo who I thought would have had consistent A4's. Ha Hyun Woo is also maybe a little lower than I expected since I thought he'd at least be able to match Kim Bum Soo's peak. I'm really looking forward to the full male vocalist ranking chart Baz! When are you expecting to release it?

Wait what???? He's that good? That puts him in AA to P tier at least then, doesn't it? Holy shit that makes me so happy to know one of my favorite artists is that good! I thought he was quite tense past G4, but it was again my inexperience making me believe things that aren't there lol. How are his lows like then? If it was a SoulVelvet video that was me lol Out of everyone you listed I think only Chris Martin is a true baritone. Do people actually think Troye Sivan is a baritone? That's a first. When thinking of pop baritones the names that come into my head are Michael Buble, John Legend, Seth MacFarlane... Also wondering this! I agree she sounds very good and healthy all-around. She'd get a huge boost in popularity if she came on Immortal Song or something. Also, apologies if this was discussed already before (I couldn't seem to find it even after trying to dig through this thread), but what are the supported ranges of Kim Bum Soo, Lim Chang Jung, Ha Hyun Woo, Kim Tae Woo (g.o.d), and Shin Yong Jae?

Exact same boat, fam. I remember when G4 used to be the highest note in the world to me but after a while and loads and loads of karaoke sessions I can hit it in my mix with no issues whatsoever. I've yet to belt anything in the fifth octave at all though, I mean I have managed to squawk out a D5 exactly once in my life but I honestly think I was drunk when I did it so it was more so a heady scream than an actual belt. How do I know it was a D5? My friend was recording me and I identified the pitch afterwards lmao. That's really interesting, thanks. What app did you use? Maybe I can try the same... I am nowhere near brave enough to post myself singing but it's nice to know that people here aren't judgemental and rather helpful! Yeah it's super obvious in those examples. I actually thought Son Seung Yeon was a heavy soprano for the longest time until a YouTuber pointed out she's actually quite light; she's just very good at rounding out her vowels and employing a more neutral (or slightly lowered) larynx throughout her mix, especially in the fourth octave. I've heard that the passaggi for men are like a fourth apart so that lines up with what I've read. And that point about using the tenor's passagio to determine if a male singer is truly a baritone or not is really clever since a baritone's sound around that area would definitely be distinctly lighter than a tenor's. Ah that sucks. What would be her adjusted rating then? Oh of course not lmao, that's not what I meant at all. Sorry if my previous comment was unclear, I was definitely not implying that a grown ass man is still "growing" into his voice lol. I was moreso saying he was taking a "lighter approach" nowadays I guess? Easing off the low larynx (not that he really had one to begin with), and letting his "natural" brightness shine? Idk man I don't know how to explain it but I swear Scott's been sounding a lot lighter and brighter than he used to in his debut and early PTX days. I guess just because he's belting and phrasing higher notes than what he usually does isn't definitive proof he's actually been a tenor all along, but something about him and the repertoire he sings now just doesn't seem like something he would have done years ago or even be comfortable attempting. Hm, good points. I mean Scott is obviously struggling above like G#4, but honestly I don't know if I hear that much of a difference him and Hwanhee. They're both quite thin and bright, and going back to hear clips of them I couldn't tell you if one was a different voice type than the other. Please don't crucify me but I honest to God still don't hear much of a difference between even Seungyoon and Scott....lol. Hell, if anything, Scott seems to be the one with a fuller sound? Again, this is probably just my inexperienced ears talking and I actually have no idea what I'm listening for, or maybe it's the sheer skill gap between Seungyoon and Scott hence why I perceive Scott to sound more full. I guess I'm just not used to baritones being able to belt or phrase that high, even a relatively light or pop-y one like Scott. I think at this point in time I'll tentatively accept that Scott's a true baritone, albeit the most tenor-like one I've ever heard. I absolutely loathe the term "baritenor" but Scott would probably be the one who fits the bill closest imo. Also lmfao @ Seungyoon managing to scream out a G5. Honestly that was barely even a scream, it was like 95% air lol. Still, for someone as heavy and chesty as him, an impressive showing nonetheless. AHAHAHA yoooo you guys found Hug Me hard too??? I thought I was the only one In Korea it's pretty much considered a "warm-up" song that guys sing to get their throats loosened up for the karaoke session, and since I found it hard to sing while my friends didn't, I was sure I was a baritone. It was honestly really humiliating that I was like the only one who couldn't do it while the rest of my friends could with ease, and we were the farthest thing from a trained singer there was lol. Turns out, once again, it was just my substandard ass that couldn't belt in a tenor range at the time. After practicing it for months on end, I can safely say that I now also consider it my "warm-up song", and it has been for a few years now. Like really the song is structured very nicely to loosen up your voice, as it starts low and slow and gradually builds up for a climactic G4 belt. The good thing about pop music though is that it's easily transcribable and you can either lower or raise the key to suit your voice better. There's absolutely no shame in changing the key of a song to suit your voice, and in fact that's what you should be doing. There are many songs that I couldn't even attempt in the original key years ago that I can now sing in a higher or even the original key now. But I get your point, changing the key of a song is a useful thing to do, but having more songs written in a key that's singable for your voice type in the first place would be even better. I absolutely agree with this sentiment, and I wholeheartedly hope it happens too. Lol I just have this expectation/fantasy that baritones belting in the upper fourth octave to sound intense and commanding as fuck. But yeah you're right I probably can't find this outside of opera rip. Sorry, I should have specified that they are the best vocalists alive, that we currently know of. That's my bad, I guess that much would have been obvious but I guess not . And yes, of course nobody is perfect, because at the end of the day even David Phelps and Sohyang are just humans. Also, I was not directly comparing those two at all, just saying that they're similar in the sense that they can belt and resonate well past what's typically expected of contemporary singers of their gender. Eh, I don't see why not honestly. In terms of contemporary music, men being able to resonate into the fifth octave is the top percentile of all singers. It's incredibly hard to even have a passable belt in that kind of range, but to be so in control of your voice that you've mastered it enough to not only support but resonate up there is god-tier levels of good. So far, only a handful of (known) men can do it well/consistently, and they happen to be David Phelps and some Koreans. Objectively, these men are the best contemporary singers in the world. If there are any others out there (and believe me I really do want more to be out there) I'd love to hear about and geek out over them as well. That's crazy lol how does a forum dedicated to k-pop (and arguably the biggest/most well-known in the western hemisphere) not have one single karaoke/fancover thread yet? That's honestly really surprising. Oh yeah of course, I wasn't implying he was a baritone or anything. I'm just saying that I happen to sing even lighter than him and yet I still thought I was a baritone lol. But it's nice to know he's pretty good amongst his peers! He's also one of my favorites and biggest singing inspirations as well. The only glaring issue I've found with him is some very apparent nasality, which seems to be a recent development unfortunately. Do you know his supported range? I'm assuming F#4/G4? Exactly. People underestimate the amount of skill some vocalists have, even amongst the A/A-AA tier. Hell, once you get to AA, you start producing consistent resonance, which is already a huge accomplishment and something many singers go through their entire life without ever doing. I figured. I kinda just want to sound decent and consistently support with the occasional resonance, so maybe around A-AA or maybe AA if I really wanted to push myself. I don't even have any plans of performing or going pro either, I just really like singing and want to sound the best I can. Edit: Also, Jesus H. Christ, I seem to have started a war in this thread regarding passaggi... I'm so sorry guys that was absolutely not my intention I just wanted to know how to find mine ;-;

Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head. People are just afraid to use opera terms and voice types outside of a classical setting, but like you said, these are pop singers and quite frankly we may never know what their "true" vocal color and weight may be like. We have to make do with what we have and give our best educated guess even if we may be hesitant of the conclusion we come to. I also agree that people like Moontak, Yeonji, and Solji probably are a very dark type of soprano, like borderline falcon quality. And yeah STAYC J is another idol commonly mislabeled as a mezzo. Nah, she's just another soprano that forces a dark, chesty quality.

Super interesting take. I didn't think of it that way but it actually makes so much sense. A lot of supposed baritones who have been re-evaluated to be tenors may actually be a very low type of tenor like spinto and dramatic, since they're honestly too dark to be regular full-lyrics but not quite heavy enough to be true baritones. Hopefully, I (and everyone else) can develop the ear and experience to pick them out someday! True, A4 is tough for tenors as well, me as an untrained tenor should know that very, very well lmfao. Although tbh, from my experience some of my tenor friends can hit the note relatively easily, hence why I initially thought I was a baritone. And I have no idea what my passaggio are, how can I find out? I actually don't lol, what happened with Jamie? I mean he did do a cover of Waving Through A Wndow where he belts a Bb4 in the climax, but yeah besides that I can't think of any other examples Yeah I guess I see what you're talking about... although a lot of that is Scott in his earlier years when his technique was less refined. Nowadays he sounds so much lighter and brighter, regularly phrasing into the middle-upper fourth octave, and sometimes even sustaining belts there. Perhaps he was a baritone back then and he's finally grown into his tenor self? Also, and maybe this is just my inexperience and untrained ears talking, but I don't hear that much of a difference in intensity between Seungyoon's D4-F#4 range and Scott's. Hell if anything Seungyoon honestly sounds darker and more mature to my ears lol. Watch everything in this video from 12:01 to 13:59, which cover's Scott's (and Matt's) belting range from A4 to B4. This video played a very large part of convincing me that perhaps Scott is an underexplored tenor. Ah the infamous Hwanhee vocal range video lol. And yeah, that makes sense, his voice becomes really thin starting at A4, but again, perhaps that's just because he never fully learned how to belt past that, and not necessarily because he's a baritone. I still think that an F#4 from Hwanhee and from current Scott would sound indistinguishable lol. Back then Scott was really pushing a lot but seems like his ease in the middle-upper fourth octave has improved a lot. I will say though that that video of a very early Hwanhee when he was an actual idol who is singing and dacning is very convincing in terms of him actually being a tenor and dropping his larynx down to sound more "mature". It's like he and Scott are the inverse: Hwanhee got darker but Scott got lighter lmao. Oh of course, which is why I thought and maybe still think that a lot of the heavier sounding male idols are baritones and not a lower type of tenor. Because honestly, more baritones in pop music is always a good thing because it's just so utterly dominated by tenors. Although just because someone sounds "heavier" doesn't necessarily mean they're automatically a baritone, obviously. Honestly what I'm more interested in are baritones who have a darker mix past G#4. Probably super rare but it would sound like sex on the ears. David Phelps is honestly an inhuman monster and indisputedly the best contemporary male singer alive. That man consistently resonates up until C#5, and he can even resonate a D5 here and there. I don't think his support extends up till Eb5, but I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to do it once or twice. He's probably he closest thing to a male Sohyang we have and no man today matches his skill level. Like I said earlier, Park Hyo Shin comes close despite his inconsistency around the C5 area, and in fact is probably the second best contemporary male singer in the world (I have no idea what Dimash's supported range is but I've heard it's actually not very good). Honestly most of those C5 inconsistencies come from performances of Wildflower where he got overly emotional and cried, so of course his singing was impacted. Plus, the man has resonated C#5's before, so I have no qualms giving him the crown of second best contemporary male vocalist alive kek. Third is probably Naul and fourth is probably Jung Dong Ha, if I missed any other technically stellar male singers (western or Korean) let me know lmao. Fair enough! I just love Han Dong Geun so much, I find his voice absolutely sublime to listen to and he's a major influence on how I personally sing lol. Man I'd honestly love to hear some of you guys sing! Is there a fancover/karaoke thread on this site anywhere? Ehhh I have this clinching feeling you may be right. I thought my voice carried a lot of weight, but listening to recordings of myself I don't even sound as dark as Jung Seung Hwan lmao. My substandard ass just couldn't sing any high notes so I thought I was a baritone lol. Honestly that tweet of Seungyoon doing scales with Sumi Jo is scarily similar to how I sound and what I'm capable of ? F4-G#4 is easy, A4 is doable but clearly uncomfortable and ever so slighty unstable, and Bb4 is currently incredibly inconsistent. I'd love to have a proper vocal teacher really help me develop my instrument but with just how wide and varied teaching styles and techniques are I quite frankly don't trust anyone to give me the exact type of voice I want lol. CVT is the dominant teaching style in the western world and I'm not a huge fan of it so I'm kinda outta luck. Edit: aight who gave me the clown emoji come on show yourself

Oh wow I didn't know that lol I was just going off of his KVA profile and I think before Ahmin got rid of the ranking system John Park was rated as Proficient. I don't know... both Hwanhee and Scott Hoying belt past G#4 quite a bit from what I've seen at least? But you're obviously more knowledgeable than me so I'll take your word for it lol. If Scott is a true baritone then he's also the lightest baritone I've ever heard, his notes have practically no weight to them from what I hear lmao. Chris Martin of Coldplay is also a true baritone right? Ah, so you're saying that a baritone belting up to G#4/A4 would sound incredibly thin, just like a tenor belting up to C5, but some more advanced and better trained baritones can still sound relatively full, right? Yeah, that makes sense. Then a baritone's "C5" is A4, right? Or would it be G#4? A4 is a really tough note to hit for baritones. Even Park Hyo Shin as good as he is isn't 100% consistent on his C5's, hence why his KVA profile lists his supported range as B4/C5. Which is funny because he has supported and even resonated C#5's before lol. Is there any contemporary tenor alive today who can fully, consistently support and resonate in the lower fifth octave? David Phelps maybe? Meh, I don't really care about him because I don't know him or listen to him tbh. I just thought he sounded really open is all haha. I agree. A4 is just about his limit and where he starts to get rather inconsistent. This A4 in Downpour at 3:20 is probably his best and most well-placed. It has some slight throatiness though. His A4's in his busking performance of Amazing You starting at 3:43 and especially the one at 3:48 all sound very nice to me despite the major pushing. If he's consistent up to G#4, then his rating would be at least AA right? Maybe AA to P? And what his voice type be? I know he can sound either very light or dark depending on the song, so for me it's really hard to judge. My best guess is he's a Full-Lyric Tenor? Hm, I know he lowers his larynx quite a bit, but I didn't know that he had a classical background which caused him to do that. He's either an extremely low tenor or a true baritone, and I honestly think he's a baritone. Oh and I didn't know you were a baritone either lol. Are you trained? I'm completely untrained lmao. I think I'm also a baritone or a very shitty tenor, I really have no idea because my lowest note is D2 (C#2 on a good day and idk about my fry) and my maximum comfortable belt is G#4. My A4 is inconsistent but improved a lot from my earlier years. Bb4 I can do once in a blue moon in my absolute best condition lol. I can falsetto up to C6 and maybe D6 on a good day. I doubt it myself honestly, but apparently he is. In that tweet RATY posted he managed to squawk out a Bb4. With some decent training he could probably join the ranks of the prestigious Full-Lyric/Spinto Tenor squad in k-pop lol.

No no more debatable as in he's more likely to be a baritone than tenor. Although I'm like 99% sure he's not a bass which is his official position in Forestella.

First of all thanks for the quick reply! Yeah John Park is indisputably a baritone, but I thought he was considered at least Proficient? Did he regress or something? If Hwanhee is still considered a baritone he would probably be the best contemporary baritone today, at least by belting standards. It's either him or Scott Hoying but I honestly don't think Scott Hoying is a baritone either lol. Wow it's honestly surprising to hear that both of them but especially Hwang Chi Yeul are tenors! I thought for sure that Hwang Chi Yeul at least would be a true baritone. But yes I do agree with you, his voice is incredibly gritty and throaty, and at times I really can't tell if it's supposed to be stylistic or unintentional. I thought his technique was decent, but hearing you say he's a rougher, messier K-Will when K-Will already has plenty of technique problems of his own is very worrying lol ... do you know his supported range? He supports up to F#4/G4 right? Also, would a baritone really have trouble belting up to G4/G#4 with intensity like you said? I thought that A4 was around the maximum a baritone could belt with intensity before completely fizzling out, so it would be very high for them yes but not unreachable right? Actually Hwang Chi Yeul actually does belt a Bb4 here at 2:28 and while it's incredibly strained it does somewhat sound "intense" so I guess that's more proof he's a tenor lol. Also quick side note but Kim Chang Yeon, the tenor Hwang Chi Yeul is singing with, also sounds very good. I've never heard of him before but his Bb4's sound supported and resonant, at least to my untrained ears lol. I don't know about that B4 at 4:19, but everything lower than that sounds very nice. I knew it. Do you know his supported range? He's a tenor? I don't know about that tbh. While yes he does sound very light here, his lows are way too developed, weighty, and full to be a tenor methinks. Ha Hyun Woo is a tenor with phenomenal lows as well, but you can hear how even that is relatively light and breathy compared to the natural weight of a baritone. Although I do think Ko Woo Rim is also lowering his larynx quite a lot to achieve that sort of sound, but again I'm untrained so I can't detect that kind of stuff easily lol. Do people still think BTS' rap line are baritones? There's also two solo artists named Jung Joon Il and Jung Joon Young, but Jung Joon Il is most definitely a tenor and Jung Joon Young might be a true baritone but he's no longer active in the music industry anymore cuz he was involved in the biggest k-pop scandal of all time lmao.

Hey guys! I'm pretty new here so I don't know if this has been discussed before (I couldn't find any relevant posts even after I searched for them) but I just wanted to ask who are the true baritones in k-pop and Korean music as a whole right now? I of course used to think the usual suspects (V, Jaehyun, Sungjae, Seungyoon, Hwanhee, Hyunmin, Youngjae) were baritones, but they've gotten re-examined in recent years and I believe the current consensus is that most if not all of the previously thought baritones are actually tenors. I guess that leaves John Park, Roy Kim, Hwang Chi Yeul, Han Dong Geun, and maybe Ko Woo Rim of Forestella...? Ko Woo Rim is definitely more debatable and honestly I don't think Han Dong Geun is a baritone, so that just leaves John Park, Roy Kim, and Hwang Chi Yeul?