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Ok cool! Thanks for clarifying : )

I don't know Mia's range either but frankly range doesn't really matter when it comes to evaluating a vocalist. Supported range is much more important and as far as I know, Mia's supported range is N/A like @Oriane said. I've heard she's on a similar level to Yeji: grounded but doesn't support. That being said, there's nothing wrong with liking her voice. I find her perfectly listenable (La Di Da was one of my favorite songs from last year). She's definitely a charismatic performer and I think she shines more as a dancer than she does vocally.

For Inseong, were you evaluating him based on this video or more recent clips too? The video's three years old so it may be out of date. @ZRH23 gave him Eb3/D3-F#4ish based on this clips I think?:

I found this clip from kcon 2018 and I was wondering how Hweseung, Hyunjae, and Inseong were doing here. (From left to right its Hweseung, Hyunjae, Bomin, and Inseong). I've seen Hweseung labeled as A to AA and Inseong as a high A?

No worries! Yeah that would be double eyelid surgery. Is that what you meant for Jiwon too?

Question - by blepheroplasty do you mean double eyelid surgery? I've seen the terms thrown around somewhat interchangeably but as far as I know they are actually not the same thing. Blerpheroplasty removes the fat pad above the eye which can reveal a double eyelid crease if one is already there. Double eyelid surgery involves making an incision to create a new crease. Chaeyoung has admitted to having double eyelids done, not blerpheroplasty as far as I know.

Please ignore the clowning! Your post was really respectful and you actually made some really good insights! I don't know why people are offended. Anyway, I'll do my best to answer your questions but I haven't really done in depth research on a lot of these people (this is mostly what I've observed in passing/picked up from this thread) so I may be off. Okay, so first off, I'll start with Taeyong because I've actually looked into him in detail recently to debunk speculation he got an epicanthoplasty. I posted about it a few pages ago, but basically, his eyes haven't changed, a least since debut. It does, however, seem like he's been experimenting quite a bit with fillers which could explain why he seems different to you. I don't see any recent invasive procedures though I could be missing something. As for Jaehyun, he seems to have gotten a fair amount done over the years. Jaw shave predebut which he later remedied partially with jaw implants. He also seems like he's gotten some inner eye corner work (an epicanthoplasty) and an alarplasty (basically narrows the nose by bringing the sides in but doesn't remove cartilage). His initial jaw shave left some lose skin under his chin and I think he uses botox in that area to tighten it. Jaehyun has also gone through a lot of body changes (he's kind of a serial exerciser and I believe he diets a lot as well) which may account for some of the changes in him. Nayeon and Momo and Sana all seem to be using fillers lately which explains why they seem fuller faced, especially in the cheek area. Nayeon and Momo I don't see any other major changes in, though I could have overlooked something. As for Sana, she's definitely changed the most. You're right. In addition to fillers she seems to have had some corner work which made her eyes seem even bigger and more anime as well as a cheekbone shave. The cheekbone shave was the biggest change and probably why she looks so different because it altered her overall face shape. Tzuyu seems to have had some corner work as well and also some conservative lip fillers. For Jungkook, he's been messing with his nose and eyes for years now. I haven't really been keeping track of all the gradations, and as for RM, I have no idea. I'd have to do some research. Felix has made quite a few subtle changes over the years: nose, jaw, possibly inner corners. Hyunjin seems to have gotten a chin implant and possibly lip fillers as well. Both Felix and Hyunjin have lost weight (I think Hyunjin kind of flew under the radar?) which once again may have contributed to them looking different. Chungha I know is a big fan of fillers. I'm not sure if she's made any invasive changes in the last few years. As for Lisa, I think she may have had some more work done on her nose. Maybe the implant swapped out which could explain a slightly higher bridge. I'd need to look into it more though. Thank you for being understanding towards Wendy I feel she's gotten a lot of unintentional flack on this thread about the changes in her face since the accident. Wendy's one of my ults and she's so talented and beautiful. She's had a really hard time and I think the best thing we can do is embrace her for who she is now and as she is now. Yeri and Joy do look somewhat different. I haven't been paying that close attention to them but I think Yeri has at least been doing fillers and Joy has maybe done something to her chin? I'm not sure if it would be a chin implant or chin fillers. She's another one who seems to have lost weight recently. I hope that helps and please, anyone correct me if I'm wrong or missed anything!

I never said it wasn't edited lol. I just answered the question asked which was what was the note. I think you're right, it likely is edited, and I don't think anyone should start adding C6 to her vocal range.

Mingyu has said himself that he frequently wears insoles so I’m not sure he would be the best person to compare to.

Oh I had the wrong time stamp lol. At 3:17/18 that’s a C6. 3:16 was an E5. I hope that helps!

It's an E5 I think and yeah, I would say it's sung, but not in a full voice coordination.

Thank you!

Inseong had a rather unfortunate voice crack/throaty placement in a performance of Taeyeon's Spark (at around 3:47) on Kingdom which I'm sure mnet is going to milk for everything it's worth. (Kind of ridiculous. They had him mixing a triple high note of sorts, C5 to D5 to E5, which was way out of his supported range, way out of everyone on the show's supported range for that matter lol.) I honestly feel really bad for him. Especially because he hasn't really had the chance to have his vocals recognized by the general public before. Oh well. Hopefully he has the opportunity to better showcase his vocals before the show ends. I just found this compilation of him if anyone's interested: If Kevin's the least nasal, would you say he's the strongest in TBZ's vocal line? (Which is Sangyeon, Hyunjae, and New + him and Jacob). Also, would you say anyone in the Boyz or Ateez besides Jongho supports? (As far as I know no one in SKZ does). Thanks and sorry for so many questions!! P.S: I found this comment on a vocal ranking of TBZ but I'm not sure how accurate it is given it comes from youtube (shudder): "5. Jacob does have a vocal support although its weak. 4. Same goes to kevin. 3. Hyunjae have a healthy voice which is a kudos to him and he does have support although it is on and off. 2. New sometimes force his voice and vocal support is also on and off. 1. Sangyeon is a pretty good singer, support is present and good agility, not exactly healthy placement but he's there."

Thank you! Yeah I totally forgot about Changsub! (Probably because he’s been out for the last couple episodes). But he’s definitely second. Then probably Inseong then Jongho like you said. Junhue weak to average doesn’t surprise me. Seems like a fair number of the YG main vocalists fall in that category? I think SF9’s Rowoon may be weak to advantage as well but don’t quote me on that lol. Kevin sounds shallow to me too (he’s quite stylistic, sings in a similar way to a lot of western pop singers.) I believe he was actually switched out as the third main vocal of The Boyz for Hyunjae. (Not sure if the positions were officially changed though.) I’d say he sounds like the 4th strongest in the group to me and Sangyeon seems the most solid (though I could be totally wrong).

Thank you! I definitely hear the nasality. Funny about TXT given I've seen a lot of people praise their vocals but they've never sounded particularly strong to me. I was wondering, since you posted about Kingdom earlier, do you have a sense of how the main vocals of the different groups compare to each other? Seungmin probably being one of the weakest and Eunkwang probably the strongest? Ikon are very stylistic but I'm really wondering about The Boyz's vocals. Sangyeon, at least, sounds like he supports? (I may be totally wrong though). (He's the one in white here and Suho actually mistook him for someone from SM). New has a lot of ability (I think he's mixed a G5?) but his technique sounds questionable at times and I'm not sure about Hyunjae. Thanks!

How does Seungmin compare to other 4th gen main vocals?

The video oh my god lmao. When he says you're not a tenor if you can't mix a C5??? What?????? Also like you said getting one guy to demonstrate everything is kind of crazy lol. For Felix I'm definitely surprised, but honestly not as much as I thought I would be? He doesn't sing often, but when he does his sound is actually fairly bright and even though he's clearly untrained, he sounds pretty comfortable in the lower 4th octave. His speaking voice is also quite different from his rapping voice. I've seen "vocal coaches" on youtube refer to him as a bass lol, which even before I knew he was a tenor, I found ridiculous. Also about him being "the lowest voice in kpop" - I guess that isn't true at all lol. The other guy I've heard labeled as one of "the lowest voices in kpop" is Oneus' Leedo. Online "vocal people" often talk about the duality of his voice and how they can't understand it (similarly to Felix and Hyungsik). Could he be a tenor? On another note - I was thinking about baritones vs mezzos in kpop, and I realized that when classifying people like Jaehyun and Taehyung as baritones there seem to be significantly more baritones than mezzos. Classifying them as tenors actually close to evens out the numbers which I find interesting. Also, a question - where would you say a baritone passagio typically lies in comparison to a tenor?

Oh interesting. I definitely see what you mean. His double eyelids were more exposed pre-SM. I think he's raising his eyebrows in the second pic but they still looked kind of uneven. His right crease used to be an "outline," meaning it was above the epicanthic fold. His left one was more of an "outline" as well but the crease sat slightly lower and closer to the epicanthic fold, which is why his eyelids appeared asymmetrical. Now, both of his eyelids are "in-lines." They are symmetrical and are mostly hidden under the epicanthic fold, only visible above the outer corner. I stick by the fact that he hasn't had an epicanthoplasty, his inner corners haven't changed, but this makes me think he may have had his double eyelids redone to lower them and even them out. I think it's interesting to note that Koreans actually prefer lower creases for men than for women. (Part of why monolids are more accepted for men than women as well.) I read somewhere that high double eyelid creases on a man supposedly make him look "sleazy" though that's kind of ridiculous imo.

Haechan seems like he's had some subtle refinements to his nose. I'm not sure about his eyes though. Jaemin's done his nose and he may have had his eyelids clipped.

What do you think he’s had done? I looked into/posted on him the other day and didn’t catch anything . I’d have to do look more closely at some of the members individually but off the top of my head I’d say Jeno (why I’m curious about what you think he had done) and Jisung seem like they may be natural as well as some of Wayv. Mark’s done nose fillers but the consensus as of now seems to be he’s natural besides that.

It looks like chin fillers or a chin implant to me. I hate to say it but I’m really not a fan of this overly pointy chin look on a lot of people. It’s not a feature that fits every face and I feel like it often draws attention to itself, and not in a good way. Hopefully it’s just filler in Yunseong’s case and will dissipate with time.

I really hear what you're talking about now. Especially for Hyungsik. I always saw him classified as a baritone and found it very strange that he seemed so comfortable in a tenor range. This makes a lot more sense. Speaking of singing frequently in a tenor range, would you consider Haknyeon from The Boyz to be a tenor? He sings in the mid 4th octave quite often but mostly in a very "belty" configuration. This is mostly him messing around but he's getting to some G4 at around 0:53 and 1:07. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68CCJ9ZAvfc If he's a chesty tenor then The Boyz may be 11 tenors though I suppose Juyeon could be a baritone, he seems like he might have a baritone passaggio. Anyway, it is crazy to see how rare baritones are in the kpop industry. I don't know if I can think of any possible baritones who are main/lead vocalists anymore. I wonder if mezzos are as rare?

I'm pretty sure she didn't. Her face shape hasn't changed and besides, she didn't have time to recover from a jaw shave. Not everyone one with a v-line or a weaker jaw has had a jaw shave. In fact, most people haven't. Aespa (and SM in general) is the anomaly, at least for now.

I think I agree. His nose does look more defined through the tip. I think it's likely the bridge was raised, but without predebut pics of his side profile to compare I can't really say for sure. Just now I edited my post basically saying the same thing. Thanks for pointing it out : ) Oh interesting. It may be. Here's a better comparison then:

I’m actually not sure his jaw looks narrower but if it does, that’s mostly likely do to masseter Botox, not a jaw shave, because the bone hasn’t changed.