joonsoulie

I totally agree that stereotypes are not always accurate in determining who is/is not lgbt, but from what I've seen most of the arguments against using them are "I'm gay or I know lots of gay men who don't fit those stereotypes" - but what about the reverse? How many totally heterosexual men do you know that exhibit oodles of flamboyant behaviors? Personally, I know very few (if any), but that's my own experience. Speaking mainly for myself, of course, the reason why I and I'm assuming some others in this thread are willing to give vibes/stereotypes some weight is because those are how we can identify other lgbt people irl. Sometimes you really can just tell when you meet someone without them giving you a rundown of their romantic history. If I meet a guy who speaks softly, has an overall gentle demeanor, enjoys wearing and experimenting with makeup, enjoys performing ballet and contemporary dance, fawns over other men, wears less traditionally masculine clothing, loves romance movies, has a certain speech pattern, etc., I'm not going to go ahead and assume they're straight until proven otherwise. Maybe this isn't the most PC assumption to make, but I think that some of the aversion to assuming people are gay is due to the lingering societal perception that being seen as gay is a bad thing. Idk, this may or may not make sense and if you don't get those vibes from certain people then you don't get those vibes, but my point is that stereotypes don't ALWAYS have to be negative, and provided they're not offensive I think some of the aversion to using stereotypes and vibe to guess sexuality is unwarranted. Unrelated, but in response to an earlier post implying Taehyung is creeped out by wearing women's clothing: I couldn't find the source upon a cursory search (I can do more digging) but I remember reading that he did drag competitions in high school. And he certainly knows his way around a pair of high heels Missing from this clip is his huge smile and saying how much fun he was having dancing in them.

Icb we're having this debate again but genuine question: how are we supposed to provide "evidence" of idols doing things off camera? That's literally the only way we see them... excepting rumors which are just as likely false as they are true

Yeah, the chromatica oreos are a meme going around on twitter. I've seen "posts" by a bunch of different idols

Honestly don't have a personal read on Yeonjun, although I agree he lays the fanservice on pretty thick which makes it harder to tell what's sincere. I do think it's interesting he's perfectly comfortable being called 'noona' by Hueningkai (who I've seen some interpret as the baby gay of the group) and with female fans calling him 'unnie'

OT

Off topic but in case anyone doubted whether Dispatch has a stranglehold on these boys lmao

Not really but admittedly I am curious now

I know literally nothing about Ateez other than they are pirates(?) but we love to see it

Why are they booing you the focal point of this image is his ass... like unless he's trying to get pegged that doesn't seem very heterosexual to me

Since this thread is six feet under let's rehash some discussion Taemin's getting some bad press right now for a very iffy quote about what he looks for in a woman, what's the consensus on him? My impression is that everyone who is not a shawol thinks that he is gay but many shawols call him "the straightest man in kpop"

I understand how Tae is playful with fans and tone can come off differently over translations so aggro probably wasn't the right word. The difference is all of those things aren't implicitly romantic like the commenter was implying. I don't subscribe to the jikooker narrative that JK and Tae aren't friends anymore or their relationship fell apart completely, but the other comments he replied to were fans joking about being in relationships with the members themselves, rather than he and another member being in a relationship. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm sure Big Hit has a heavy hand in manipulation and editing to highlight certain interactions between members, but I do think there's a difference between members being physically affectionate and outright ship-baiting. I don't know whether he was talking about shipping in that comment or not, but his tone does seem to be shutting down the commenter rather than playing along as he had with the others. I agree with the others who have said that the behavior he engages in now is his choice rather than what BH encourages him to do and he has established his limits regarding how far he's willing to go.

I think it's fair to say you are reaching here as well if you feel the need to jump to "must protect Jimin" mode when nothing offensive has been said about him. You're right that he often is subject to hypersexualization and people "projecting onto him" but that was never part of this discussion, so there's no need to come for us. Sure you and others in this thread may not be straight but do you understand why it may leave a bad taste in some people's mouths when the perspective of a man who is attracted to men is negated, as if he isn't the most qualified to speak on gay male issues? Considering he has actual lived experience as an mlm, I think his view holds some more weight but maybe that's silly Maybe you are mlm too but let's be realistic about the likely gender demographics of this thread, and I'm speaking to the people who neg him simply because they disagree without elaborating why, I guess because they don't relate?? It's fine if you don't agree with his or my perspective but I don't appreciate you acting like we're wholly ignorant to the concept of stage personas. Yes obviously the Jimin we see on stage is not the same Jimin as in his downtime... no one is arguing that... I've lost the plot as to how this relates to his sexuality to be honest. I've also yet to see any 'breakdowns' as you call them, so I'm still not sure why we're being spoken down to but okay. Also if we're being nitpicky, Jimin did do kendo and tae kwon do as a child so he wasn't wholly pretending to be an MMA fighter. Yet another way in which the true self reflects through the persona! Like I said though, I've lost the plot as to how this relates to his sexuality. But Jiminmademebitbh and I have emphasized multiple times that his stage persona is not what has informed our opinion of him, although that seems to be all anyone focuses on. Just please remember that you are not the be-all-end-all authority on Jimin and his personalities as none of us know him personally, so your interpretation is just as valid as mine.

See the thing is I don't even think we disagree entirely, either I'm not explaining myself well or I'm being misunderstood (or people are just not reading my posts which is fine lmao but don't just neg and move on in that case). I have said that he flirts with everyone, male and female, because he needs love and that positive feedback. No argument there! As I have stated, the moments where I think he shows genuine romantic intent are few to nonexistent however, which is why I'm reticent to use his flirtatious nature as evidence. My point in bringing up his flirtations with men are because those make up the few instances where I think he is sincere - this is my OPINION and if you disagree that's fine. I realize that Stage Jimin is different than Vacation Jimin and that doesn't change my perspective of him, because I believe that people contain multitudes - and what we see in supposedly more candid moments like In the Soop may not even be his true personality. In the Soop Jimin is how he acts with the other members and a few cameramen, I wouldn't expect him to act the same as he would on stage or at an awards show, etc. Personally I don't really see how he acted all that different from his usual playful self, because I've always seen that Jimin in the composite of what makes him a cohesive person (along with the caring and empathetic side, and the mature perfectionist side, and the clubbing escapades in Paris side) but even that is what is chosen to be shown on camera after hours of editing and consideration. I don't think him being "boyish" has anything to do with his sexuality either, and I would never claim that he is always flamboyant (I wouldn't use flamboyant at all because that suggests ostentatiousness and I always found him more introspective and subdued than some of the others) because that's simply not true. But even the gayest of men display a multitude of qualities and will act differently in different settings, like all humans do. I do take issue with the implication that his true personality is closer to his 2013 self when what both he and the other members have said contradict it. I'll link the video again if needs be of him nearly in tears reflecting on that period of his life. In the Festa episode you mentioned Taehyung said that he had been glowing after growing into himself. Sure there's a medium between that posturing masculinity (which was obviously posturing - he had something to prove and he has admitted this) and crop tops and dangly earrings Jimin, and I think this medium is where his true self is occupied. I just don't believe his shift into self-acceptance and the changes that came with it is a total fabrication when he was so viscerally uncomfortable with himself as he tried to adhere to a heteromasculine ideal for a concept. My problem is not with people disagreeing with me; that's fine and I can't claim to know anything with certainty. I will admit I don't understand why this particular issue has received so much backlash (and I don't just mean to my posts, I mean to Jiminmademebitbh and pretty much anyone the majority disagrees with). I don't assume anyone to be straight when I meet or become familiar with them, they are neutral/bi until proven otherwise. From what I've witnessed and I know you all disagree Jimin and Taehyung read as soulmates and best friends as well as both being gay men, so thus is my assumption as I've seen nothing to legitimately suggest otherwise aside from avoidance of stereotyping.

@Jade006 I hadn't seen those other posts so thanks. I guess the question then is why he was so aggro in that one response

Here's the post if anyone is curious. Take from this what you will (Taehyung asked for recommendations on how to fall asleep)

I mean considering "appearance" is defined as someone's looks I don't think that was an unfair assumption... I'm still confused... so you think that the hard masculine persona he took in 2013-14 is the real Jimin? Or am I misinterpreting?

Under the cut since everyone is mad we're still talking about BTS LMAO

You spilled in your entire answer but I don't want to quote the whole thing so I'll just highlight this lol

I'm guessing this is directed at me since I'm the one quoted, but I'm not sure I understand your last couple sentences? Some people think Jimin is gay due to stereotypes in addition to the traits Jiminmademebitbh pointed out, and the way he interacts with men. I know everyone is quick to write it off as him just being a flirtatious person which is true but I've personally never seen him act that way with a woman since 2014. But I digress since this isn't my question, what ARE the straight stereotypes that JK and Hoseok fit into? The aforementioned sports and video games (I mean gaymer is a whole LGBT subculture) or something else? I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing. -------------------- And this isn't the "which idols do you think are going to come out" thread, it's the "which idols do you think are gay" thread. If you don't like the subject of discussion, feel free to change it

Whether I agree with them or not I do find it funny how this thread is like "I haven't seen evidence of this thing, show receipts" *someone shows receipts, gets negged* Could you elaborate on this? If by appearance you mean the way he's dressed, they were all in tracksuits so obviously styled. And if you mean his behavior, yeah they were playing video games with a group of elite gamers, what is he supposed to do, play with one hand on the mouse and the other wrist limp? I'm not trying to come for you, but naming one instance where he doesn't seem stereotypically gay doesn't make him straight.

This is something interesting to me, do y'all think that our perceptions of idols are in some way unintentionally informed by common fanfiction/fanwork tropes? Like using Hoseok as an example, in fanfictions he's usually the "token straight friend" or the odd member out who isn't written into any intro-group pairings. Even if you don't consume or engage with RPS fanfic is it possible those characterizations and tropes cross over into fan's perception of the idols themselves irl? Because otherwise I have no idea where people got that he "loves pussy" lol

This is exactly what I've been trying to say LOL I almost entirely agree with you op, obviously this is my interpretation but I always thought of Jin and probably JK as the most comfortably straight ones in the group. I attributed some of JK's mannerisms to being essentially raised from a teenager in a household with queer men (read vmin), and I figured if he actually had a romantically-tinged crush on Namjoon he wouldn't be so eager to talk about it, but I am in the minority here and could be ignoring a lot that indicates otherwise. Jhope was a lot more flamboyant around debut and if you asked me then I probably would have said gay for sure, but he's definitely mellowed out quite a bit and now I can't say anything with confidence... but considering how much he keeps his work and personal life separate that's probably how he would like it. I'm a big proponent of Namjoon as a recently discovered bisexual w a female preference but I know a lot of others think he's straight; that could be, but I hope that those assessments aren't solely based on his past indications of being attracted to women

Taehyung has lots of actor friends, couldn't it be one of them? I genuinely don't know if Seojoon or Wooshik have any other rumors but I've seen their names speculated on here (maybe just because of their proximity to Tae). From what I've gathered the conclusion is whatever T and Bogum had seems to have ended

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