Simpatico

The Chinity have been gone for ages. Once their names were gone from the credits, no one expected they'd be back. Dawon is the one member I thought for sure might leave - she's gone through anxiety hiatuses and even back from her days on Kpop Star before she was a trainee she had the drive and the voice to be a soloist - something Starship never gave her. A smaller agency focused on her for sure would. Sadly, this means we'll never get the Yeonjung/Dawon sub-unit that was always teased and fans wanted and Starship never delivered on. Luda is a big surprise. At this point she's not only one of the most popular members among Ujung fandom but Starship has been getting her steady work in variety for years (compared to say Yeoreum who re-signed), she's even got a drama coming out. She also seemed really happy. I'm not sure what she has planned. I know she's a gamer so if she becomes a live streamer (in addition to acting/variety) she could make more money than she ever did as an idol. But given you must expect some attrition in a 13/10 member group this one of the best outcomes any Ujung could hope for. When WJSN debuted as 12 members (then 13 which for awhile made it the largest GG in Kpop) with a Chinese/Korean partnership 7 years ago and debuted with "Mo Mo Mo" did anyone expect it to be one of the few groups to survive the 7 year curse and not disband? Especially after IVE became monster rookies and left their sunbaes in the dust sales and prestige wise (you don't see any WJSN members - even Bona - getting the brand deals even lesser known IVE members do), Starship could have called it quits. I think this means they do see the value in the individual members as entertainers. Let's face it- when you debut a 12/13 member group its not about the music but in maximizing profits by making each of the members earn money individually. They might have started late in doing so, but almost all members have been booked and busy on something in the last few years. Even if WJSN only gets one comeback as a group a year (ala Apink) I think the fans would be okay with that. Also, even though WJSN has one of the best Kpop discographies of the last 7 years (especially since "Secret"), the real appeal of the members lies in them as a group. They bounce off each other very well and always excel in variety shows, all of them are comedians - how many groups can you say that about? Even Bona and SeolA are funny...when the other members are around. I also think they are one of the few groups where you can tell where they really get along and like each other and like actually being part of the group. Bona for sure is set for a career as an actress (and a lead one at that) but she loves being an idol. Exy probably made money over the years than any other member as a producer and songwriter but she also loves performing. There are some groups that you know they are using being "idols" as a stepping stone for drama or variety or modeling but WJSN actually seem to like being idols (in addition to the other things). Finally, given Weki Meki will probably not re-sign when their contracts are up next year (its clear Fantagio could care less about them at this point), this will leave Yeonjung as the only member of IOI to not only outlast the 7 year curse of girl groups but the last one standing to be in a group. Who would have thought?

I feel that luxury brand deals and idols being "brand ambassadors" for Chanel, Armani, Louis Vuitton etc. have started to replace streaming numbers as ways for fandoms to judge which idols (particularly girl group idols) are at the top of the heap. I think this is all the more obvious for 4th generation girl groups (IVE, Les Serrafim, New Jeans, G-Idle) where they are being judged on which members have luxury brand deals and then brag about it. In the past it wasn't unheard of for a group like Twice or Red Velvet to have a "group" brand deal (indeed one of the reasons idols never mentioned brand names or censored brand names on Vlives is because they were often endorsing a competitor) but now we are in the era of Blackpink and "individual" deals where a girl group isn't elite unless all their members have their own separate deals with different brands (like New Jeans does now). This is all part of the shift of idol as entertainer to idol as influencer.

Watching some Weki Meki videos on YT recently has made me think how Fantagio doomed the group from the beginning with how they marketed it. Yes, “I Don’t Like Your Girlfriend” was not a great song but they could have moved beyond it. However, if you watch the video of it – only three members are focused on – the main vocal (Suyeon) and the IOI members (Doyeon and Yoojung). If you look at the comments on the video, this was pointed out at the time it came out. Now you can argue that since then in their comebacks the line/video distribution among the members has evened out, BUT consider how Fantagio introduced the members to the Korean general public (who are the ones who really count especially at debut). They were called (and STILL are) by MCs and by the company – Kim Doyeon, Choi Yoojung, Ji Suyeon…and Elly, Sei, Rina, Lucy and Lua. Gee, I wonder which members the company actually plans to market and wants us to care about. Not only were the other members given random stage names but the other three were able to keep their family names as well. You can’t give a better example of a group where the company itself is saying… “these others are filler members”. Which is sad (and bad business in the long run really) since the other members are really marketable. Elly (aka Hae Rim, something any P101 S1 watcher would know) has a 4D personality and is better at variety than any member beside Yoojung. Meanwhile the maknae Lucy (aka Hyojung – who had been a trainee since she was ELEVEN and was basically Fantagio's version of Pristin's Xiyeon) would be the group’s visual if it wasn’t for Doyeon. As it is she could be making money as a model like Doyeon is, if Fantagio actually sold her as Noh Hyo Jung instead of…Lucy. Stage names are one thing. A lot of groups have members with stage names (in Gfriend everyone but Yerin had one and are still using them) but I’ve never seen another group where the differential between the members with the stage names and the ones who don’t were made so obvious. And that is partly why I think the group hasn’t done so well (and why there are still DoDaeng stans who insist they should have debuted as a duo – as if that would have worked) is because the company itself pushed the IOI duo and Suyeon (who they may have wanted to transition to a solo singer), sending out a sign to potential stans that’s who they should care about as well. At least with Gugudan, Jellyfish waited till “The Boots” to give into the Kim Sejeong sasaengs (she sang 50% of the song, while the other 7 were back-up) and I would argue THAT was the song that signaled the end for that group since it showed that Jellyfish only cared about one member and so fans should as well. In Fantagio’s case with Weki Meki, that signaled that favoritism from the beginning.

DR Music (Black Swan/Rania) is the default answer. No way that groups has ever made a profit and yet it never dies and they keep recruiting trainees/new members. Star Empire as well (though I don't know if they actually have any groups/artists any more). I would wager BBC started as a way to launder for Ilkwang Group, given the corruption of the founders of the company. We know for sure from Jaden Jeong that they lied to the public at least how much Loona's debut actually cost by billions of won. Triple S also seems like a money laundering scheme. They are spending A LOT of money (including dorms in Korea and Japan) and plan to have multiple releases, multiple sub-groups and 24 members over all? Just on NFT money? No way. Real answer though is I think a lot of smaller companies are money laundering schemes. Given how much money it takes to debut a new group (something like a million dollars USD or more) with the extreme unlikelihood of making your money back unless your group pulls a BTS or Gfriend, its is probably one of the worst business ventures to invest in. Yet there are dozens of new groups debuting each year. Something shady is definitely happening.

At this point - Tom Cruise. Ethan Hunt (M:I), Maverick, his version of Jack Reacher. They are all basically the same guy.

I don't think we'll ever know what went down. If Daisy hasn't told by now - and she doesn't mind talking about anything else related to the industry - it will be a Pristin-level mystery. From what little we know, it seems the ones who stayed in the group cut communication with her once she was kicked (unofficially), basically turning their backs on her, and didn't support her in her fight against MLD. The only one she is on speaking terms with is Taeha who (not coincidentally) seems to have also left under unknown circumstances - at the same exact time.

Honestly don't know if this was just Moonbyul projecting what she and Mamamoo went through (they used to be insulted for their looks as well) or it was a directive from the company since they are both under RBW. Swan is a very special talent, she is a great singer and writer and all around artist, pretty much the ace of the group. I wonder if RBW are desperate for her to lose even more weight so they could promote her (though by Western eyes she was/is thin IMO). The weight issues are more disturbing than the plastic surgery in Kpop, there had to have been so many great talents that never even saw debuted or made it out of trainee status because they didn't meet the weight standards of whatever company they were in.

Yeah, I think the Daisy answer is how most of the members feel about each other. I do think some of the members are close like Nancy and Ahin, but if you ever wanted to point to a group that was clearly just "co-workers" and not friends it was Momoland. None of the members seemed to care in the least when Yeonwoo, Daisy and Taeha were jettisoned from the group. Yeonwoo was even still in the MLD company when the members started their IG accounts and they didn't follow her or her them. Honestly feel bad for the remaining six - there are worse companies than MLD (just look at BBC, GWSN's company, MBK, TS Ent. etc) but none blew such a huge opportunity. There are few if any Kpop girl groups that will ever have a hit as big as Boom Boom (even some Big 4 groups don't have streaming numbers like that song had) and Momoland was within reach of Gfriend territory (a nugu group who makes it to the elite level). They even had not one, not two, but three potential "It" girls in JooE (who was everywhere for awhile and was the Momoland equivalent of Chuu), Yeonwoo, and Nancy (especially in the Philippines in the latter case) and they had not one, not two, but three (again) fluent English speakers who regularly interacted with international fans. Then they dropped Daisy for a dating scandal that no one cared about (and wouldn't let her leave the group without paying them off), dropped Taeha (their main vocalist!) without any reason, and inexplicably dropped their second most popular member (in Korea), Yeonwoo, so she could "concentrate on acting" (so they said) even though she openly said that was not what she wanted and she wanted to remain the in the group (and then Yeonwoo left anyway and is making money for some other agency). Just over a year after Boom Boom, the group had lost 3 of its 9 members and all three seemed to have been pushed out by the company itself. What?? I have never seen another company drop the ball on such a golden opportunity - and by the end they just abandoned the group they renamed their whole company after!

Netizens are sometimes the worst. This is a clear case where a Korean company and Korean businessmen duped, lied, cheated helpless (especially in the case of the foreign members who were stuck) young women and netizens use it as an excuse to rag on the girls as flops. No matter how many times it happens I'm still surprised how often "some" in the Korean GP will let the actual companies off the hook whenever stories like this come out. Like how the heck do Miya and SoSo have criminal records and have to pay fines but no one goes after the missing executives whose job was (contractually in most cases by Korean law) to take care of visas for their employees?

Oh I could seem small companies definitely picking up all of them, especially for modeling and acting (Loona is a visual group as a whole), but their success will be hit and miss. Several idols from disbanded groups have moved on to smaller companies and then basically faded from view.

My takeaway is that BBC straight up lied to JTBC & Dispatch (who were carrying their water in trying to make Chuu look bad) in saying the injunction and the members suing to get out was not true at the time. If I was a news organization this is what I would lead with in any story in the matter - that BBC have lied publicly on this matter (aka their words on the members can't be trusted). I hope they all get away. It seems like they would like to stay together away from BBC and who could blame them (and to be honest aside from Heejin as a soloist and of course Chuu, I can't see any of the others being picked up by a mid/major label as an idol). Knowing BBC though they will probably double-down with the members still under contract and make them have a comeback or concerts.

She does seem happier with her appearance since the reconstructive surgery so maybe this is it? However, when its presented in the stark terms of the video her face really has changed into a different person. On one hand, being an SM artist has certainly given Wendy a level of fame (and more importantly money) that other Kpop idols will never have, but on the other hand being in a company known to want their artists to look a certain way and who will push/pay for that to happen (to the point its a running joke at this point), paired with someone who seemed (in the past at least) to be insecure about her looks might not have been the best thing for her self-esteem. But also its a bit enlightening that it wasn't JUST the jaw shave that changed debut-era Wendy to later pre-accident Wendy. It was jaw shave + (major) weight loss + several nose jobs to make her nose smaller + buccal fat removal (which aged her to make her look older and also required later cheek/chin filler). Wendy's original visual was so stunning because of how her features fit her face so well, just really good facial symmetry. Slight changes to that symmetry can change everything. That said I do think she look great now (albeit...different). Hopefully she feels the same way.

I don't how anyone bought BBC's line. Loona's IG page had basically turned into a Hyunjin personal fanpage and the only members who to date have commented on social media since the injunction was announced were the two who stayed with the company (Hyunjin/Vivi). If there was no injunction and the others didn't want out as BBC says, they would actually encourage the members to be posting all over the place to prove it. A part of me is disappointed that it was canceled actually. I'm all for the boycott and BBC losing money, but it would have been something to see an entire group of 11 in rebellion against their own company on the music shows/variety shows/Loona vlogs. We haven't seen that since the last days of Stellar.

I believe what was done to Wendy post-debut has been a topic on this thread going back to almost the beginning. I've mentioned it several times myself. I always found Happiness-era (debut) Wendy to be the most attractive member of RV. I thought she was the visual. She was really stunning. And then things started to change around "Ice Cream Cake" (when Yeri came into the group). I don't know if it was because someone at SM wanted the girls to all look alike (something they finally managed with Aespa), but we saw the beginnings of the weight loss and the changing of her jaw shape then and after that it was almost like she either had procedures to fix whatever they botched on her jaw (Wendy is the kind of person who looks better with a full face and not a V-line, which goes against SM principles seemingly) and then you had the massive weight loss/gain/loss during the 2016-2018 period, which made her look different each comeback (that's not even going into the styling with those bangs that did nothing for her). It's ironic because Joy and Seulgi's procedures (and Yeri depending on what you think she's had done) are much, MUCH, more subtle than what SM did to Wendy and her jaw, and later, her nose - to the point you just have to ask yourself why. I still think its criminal that someone at SM took a look at Wendy during Happiness-era and said "Nope, not pretty enough" and convinced her to get work done. Like...why? Her jawline certainly looks better and more natural since the reconstructive surgery than before. My opinion is her reconstructive surgeon was just a better plastic surgeon than whoever SM's in-house doctor is who usually gives all the idols the same exact jaw shave. So while she was having that surgery, they probably decided to do other things. I'm on the fence on whether that was good or bad (certainly her nose is completely different and that was unnecessary) BUT I will say Wendy seems happier and more satisfied with her looks since the accident then she was before it. We no longer see the dangerous weight loss and dieting she was doing before.

If this is all BBC has on Chuu, then they got nothing. She just seems like someone who is rightly stressed at mistreatment and financial cheating. The most eye opening thing is the financial set-up BBC put together which makes it impossible to get out of debt (unless like Chuu the other members had a ton of outside non-BBC connected work - which they don't) while the company can still profit. No wonder they want out.

There was a nugu group, SixBomb, a few years back who all got plastic surgery at the same time and the company even announced it, like it was part of their concept. And they were mocked and ragged on online for it. Yet, SM clearly did the same thing with Aespa (without the open admission part). Compared to Aespa, with SNSD and Red Velvet any procedures were subtle. The uncanny valley aspect is especially obvious when they are pictured with a group like Red Velvet (where you have one member - Wendy - who openly had reconstructive surgery, and yet somehow still looks more natural than all the Aespa members except Ning Ning). But they don't get nowhere near the criticism or backlash that a nugu group would get because its SM. Given that PS to get the AI "look" of Aespa is something all 4 members seemed to have gotten, I really wonder how much of the "suggested" (if we want to be kind) surgery members seemed to have gotten pre-debut was one of the reasons there was such a turnover in SM rookies to the point where many of SM's most well-known female trainees got out of there before the group's debut. Maybe they weren't interested in looking like an AI?

I'm not really that curious for the reasons Jinni was kicked (and I think she was - the group AND JYPE seemed unprepared for it), but I've never seen a company unperson an idol so quickly. JYPE was erasing her within the day. When things end cordially and on mutual terms that is USUALLY not the case.

With the exception of Stellar, I can't remember a fandom that loved the members so much they rooted so hard for their group to disband. Orbits are something else.

Problem more common than we think. It actually seems as common to hear female idols were dating athletes than actors (like Yuri of SNSD has never been tied to any co-star but she publicly dated a baseball player). Given how soccer/football mad Koreans are especially around World Cup time (I know several Kpop female idols IG stories were filled with the World Cup and the Korean team), members of the National team are probably looked on as some of the most desirable bachelors in the country.

It might be actually worth it to see an actual group in revolt during performances, backstage, vlogs. The last group I can remember doing that is Stellar in their final comeback. If BBC makes the Loona members contractually do a comeback, it's going to be some....entertainment to say the least.

I mean given its Mnet the line-up for this new group has probably been already decided (just like Idol School). If not, they will instigate voting rules like in GP999, to get the desired outcome and formulation they want anyway. It does sound like The Unit - which wasn't a bad idea, and the groups (UNI.T and UNB) that formed actually were GOOD though given they were run by MBK/Kim Kwangsu, they never had a chance. The problem with that show is the same problem this show might face - they couldn't get enough actual debuted "idols" to audition so ended up accepting actors, models and undebuted trainees (like Juhyeon of Lightsum, who wowed everyone, but was not at the time an "idol" than needed rebooting).Which diminished the concept of the show. Exactly how many mid-tier or disbanded idols who the Korean GP might actually have heard of will be on the show to lure initial viewers in? My guess - not many.

Soyeon sometimes approaches uncanny valley in some pics. Like if someone entered "Jeon Soyeon" in an AI art generator. What kind of look does she want these days? It's perplexing. Overly plump lips and occasionally emaciated form? She seems like an entire different person than the one who appeared in P101 and Unpretty Rapstar just 5 years ago. Given that CUBE does have female idols that seem relatively natural (by Kpop standards at least) like Eunbin and Shuhua, Soyeon's PS & fillers seems to be her own idea - like she really took the haters from the back in the days of P101 to heart. It's sad if true. Maybe its part of the cultural divide between East and West, but I always rolled my eyed every time one of my favorite groups went on Vlive and played with the filters until they always got to the one that was overwhelmingly bright and washed out their skin tone - because I knew THAT'S the one they were looking for to begin with. Not every group does this for instance, Loona usually does not, but Pristin (which had a ton of Vlives in its short life) always did.

Honestly, if they were disbanded outside of Chuu, I can only see Heejin having a successful career. She's the only one the KP might know outside of Chuu and the only one to get individual CFs (before Chuu, she was the one BBC pushed). The others might disappear or drop out of the industry altogether. Which would be a shame. But aside from this...has anyone ever seen a statement like with a company trashing an artist and publicly booting them from the group. Even in other cases where there was evidence of bullying, like Garam and Soojin, the companies didn't' disparage the leaving members. And in other cases where there is again - EVIDENCE - of bullying of staff in the case of RV's Irene, SM went to the mat for her to defend her reputation proactively. Here BBC is basically trying to ruin Chuu's future career so no one will hire her. I'm not saying what they said is not true. But I do know given their history BBC doesn't get the benefit of the doubt given their dubious business practices (the whole Donut situation, not paying staff, not paying Loona, the whole tour debacle with the members' health) while Chuu has been pretty much universally defended by those who have worked with her so far. Even the school bullying accusations last year against her fell apart VERY quickly. Chuu Can Do It is co-produced by CJ E&M (aka DIA TV/Mnet/Stone Music/tvN) one of the biggest chaebols in the industry. The staff on that program adore her, and it has more subscribers (over a million) and viewers than most well-known Korean influencers - and she's largely done it on her own personality alone. I'm sure that's something the rest of the industry in Korea is aware of too.

I've no doubt Gfriend will reunite at some point (all except Sowon have come out with music and Viviz even refused to elect a leader since they consider Sowon to still hold that position). I'm sure everyone expects it...and Source Music too, which is why keep doing this to prevent it. Well considering the end of Gfriend seems to have come from Source/Hybe and not the members, they had these losses coming.

I used to think Siyeon was the most natural looking member of Minx and now she's the most unnatural looking member of Dreamcatcher. I too wonder what look she wants. Her face (chin, cheeks and jaw) has changed shape several times over the years.