25%Cotton

A bit O/T but LGBT/Korea related.

 

 

Has anyone noticed the sudden upsurge in young gay male Korean couple Vlogs on YouTube? Including people kissing openly.

 

I see two possibilities happening here. The first is that young LGBT+ Koreans are finding YouTube to be a safe place to express themselves, and there is lots of interest from both Korean commenters and English speakers as well Spanish and other south east Asian speakers. So the audience is already there, curious, and largely supportive. Which is all great. 

 

I want to think that the couples are all genuine. But I'm also a little bit wary. Some of these guys have their faces masked and although that is perfectly natural for anyone who fears being found out/outed, I also have to wonder if straight people might be bandwagon jumping and pretending to be gay just to gain followers and attention. 

 

That might sound silly, because why would you risk it in Korea, but people do risky things. So I'm a shade hmmm about some of them. I hope I'm wrong and I'm sure most are legit. What do others think? Am I being too harsh? Should we accept them all as being the real deal?

 

they're copycats, but i don't think that's a bad thing. i also believe the vast majority (if not all) of these vloggers are actually gay -- remember that the people who are most attune to trends and changes in the LGBT community are people IN the LGBT community. much of "the bandwagon" is actually just other LGBT people starving for content that has to do with their lives and issues, but are reluctant or even scared to be the first person to make it. it's not easy to be a pioneer.

 

anyway, even in much more accepting countries, straight people are not terribly familiar with LGBT content. remember how that show Lip Sync Battle became popular despite the performances being pretty much trash compared to Drag Race (which had been airing for multiple seasons by that point but hadn't yet attained mainstream success). or remember how just this past week, straight people were all confused asking "what is camp?"

 

non-LGBT people catch bits of LGBT and gay culture, but they don't tend to get immersed in it as naturally because they don't have that same drive to consume it.

There was probably not enough room for hello.

 

So I'm on another thread and apparently Sehun and Chanyeol are heading to LA for filming. Should be fun. A premier gay and a newly-crowned ghai in one of the gayest places on the planet? Hey, jk, jk hets, they're all red-blooded straighties! Esp Sehun! Don't hete me pls!

 

Also me: I'm on Chefsuke alert.

 

Edit: came across this, from Nov 2016. Reasonably encouraging result from approx 7.5k votes. Comments are interesting/mixed on reasons. I'm assuming it reflects western sentiment more than Korean, due to the placement of it, but still not the worst thing to wake up to.

 

Click here to view the Tweet

going by kpop it’s gonna be two boys singing “babeh be my ladeh~~†while no girls appear in the video.

New NCT unit everyone!

is there a reason the background appears to say “gays hiâ€

Oh I just found out Jo Kwon already enlisted.

I read that during Vietnam war a lot of people avoided draft by coming out. I guess for celebs it won't be possible

where though?

 

in Korea, doing your time in the military is seen as a national service and important rite of passage into adulthood for men. Korea is also very pro-military without a strong pro-peace counter-culture like in the US.

was Hong Suk Chun exempted from Military service?

What about Jo Kwon and Sung Jong?

hong suk chun was not out when he entered the service (in fact, he apparently had a girlfriend at the time).

as for the other two, no. neither one of these boys is out, so they will not be exempted. fyi being exempted for being gay is highly dishonorable and most gay koreans just try to make it through quietly.

Do you think if they stopped the whole gay witch hunt more idols will come out?

i do not see this making a big dent as the issues are not directly related and idols themselves are not as big a deal in Korea as international fans think. however, if it was several idols and they decided to actively turn the conversation to LGBT people in the military, then people might turn their attention to it.

 

but idols have rarely been outspoken about social issues.

What Asian countries do you think are more ahead of South Korea in lgbt+ rights?

 

With Nam Taehyun again, I’m surprised he has a girlfriend. I thought he was gay. As a bisexual person he doesn’t ping as bi for me but, that’s just feeling. He could be bi or pan.

 

I don’t know why but, he seemed like the person who wouldn’t do a whole bearding thing. That’s why I will agree that he’s bisexual.

 

His brother has the pride flag on one of his instruments. If I remember correctly; he may just think it’s RAINBOW! I think his brother is supportive lgbt+. What do you guys think? His @funny_hyun on Instagram. 3rd of June 2018. The instrument has a rainbow. Could be nothing just thought I’ll share. He’s participating in the new produce!

Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, the Philippines, Hong Kong

 

i get that as kpop fans we want to have SK be fabulous, and there's always promises of "well young people are different!" but honestly SK is still in a pretty awful place as far as LGBT+ rights are concerned (and gay kpop fans have been shouting "well young people are different!" for a decade now and not much has changed). mandatory military service just makes everything worse as well, with "gay hunts" leading to dishonorable discharge and lifetime shame.

 

you can probably live comfortably as a gay person there (especially if you are a foreigner), but SK is still very far back and the societal pressure can be crushing.

Did the mods just integrate the Jokwon and Holland thread into this one, or is my phone glitching?!

 

I mean we know they are gay, but...

why not make another one?

 

it shouldn't be merged, especially since there is no question whether either of them is LGBT (with Holland being completely out and Jokwon openly referring to himself as a drag queen)

kwon x holland is instagram of the year so far.

"Statistically speaking, [person] is likely straight"

 

Fantastic, but it doesn't change whatever the truth is.

 

If you saw me, my boyfriend, and some of our friends walking down the street without knowing who we were, statistically speaking most of us would likely be straight. But as it turns out, all of us are actually gay. You could say "If I saw you guys in person I could probably tell most if not all of you were gay," but then you would be using the exact same skills of observation everyone in this thread already is.

 

Statistics are approximations of a varied mass. Kpop companies don't say "Well, we can't add so-and-so to the group because we already hit our gayness statistic." Every group is comprised differently, and if we go by a general societal average of 5-10% (which is likely different than the Kpop industry average as there is often a higher concentration of LGBT individuals in entertainment, dance, singing, and other artistic fields), there will be groups that roughly meet this average, groups that don't meet this average, and groups that surpass this average.

 

The way we predict which is which is by observing them and coming to conclusions, not entering numbers into a formula.

Well yeah, maybe. I definitely don't see people saying that a member pings them as gay because of something masculine they did, that's for sure.

 

But if South Korea is like Japan in any way, the pursue of muscle, bodybuilding and looking as masculine as you can, for some, pings as gay. When it comes to Korean and Japanese women, extremely muscular and masculine men seem to be a very niche type to have, but not so much with gay men. So for me, when I see an idol who looks more masculine and is building muscle, it does ping me a little.

 

In the gay world, people often want to look or/and act as masculine as possible, or as feminine as possible, and masc/fem is a pretty defining label. And both of those extremes make my personal gaydar go off.

I think SK is a bit in between the US and Japan. They have much more of a "manliness means this" thing. I think part of it is the emphasis on military, as well as a cultural preference towards physically expressing your emotions more (where Japan very much avoids this).

 

It's much more normal for men to be thicker and to puff up their arms, legs, shoulders, and chests while Japanese men are happy just to be whatever.

 

I do think that it's still somewhat suspicious (especially someone as dedicated as Wonho), but I don't think it's nearly to the extent it is in Japan where muscles and facial hair are key signs that a man might be gay.

might be just nothing but it's Ten, so

 

 

 

 

 

 

remember that he was the one who suggested the name Rainbow V for the project    king 

Ten is gorgeous

 

when can we as a society stop writing vague apologies with the word "if"?

 

i'm not sure what you're referencing? people speculating about his sexuality as a minor? i dont ever remember that, but sexualizing him as a minor was a no go zone, specially during sherlock era, alot of people had a huge problem with that. we speculate about him now as he is of age of course. ?

i do wonder if you're unfairly equating "speculating sexuality" with "sexualizing," but i don't remember much about the sherlock era so i guess we're at an impasse. though i'm surprised you don't remember the whole "Taemin: asexual" era if you were around on 6Theory.

 

 

Y'all wanted apology, yet y'all still are bitter.

where? we got a dismissive "i'm sorry if..." and an "i'm sorry for your interpretation of me," but mostly we got a "no i couldn't possibly be"

lol there was always a no go zone with taemin till he was of age. if you had been around during that time you would know that.

it may be that my memory has gotten hazy, but i don't recall taemin as a "no go zone" so much as a "who knows zone."

heck, we even had plenty of people "defaulting" on asexual for him, which struck me as a bit bizarre.

 

in the end, it was a personal choice not to speculate (well, only if we choose to ignore the people who believed he was asexual), not a rule, and if there are young LGBT users who wish to get involved with idols around their own age, i don't really see the big deal.

5) Queer kpop fans need a space of their own, one moderated by someone whose qualifications, level of thoughtfulness, and education aren't just their sexual identity.

that's what this thread is supposed to be, but it's not even successful at that because we constantly get trolls coming in to argue about whatever, and then we got the BS that just happened a few pages ago.

 

they purge everything vaguely gay from the main boards into this space and then they don't even give us protection in here.

I actually photoshopped that and posted it in one of my Suho appreciation thread years ago and kept posting it on here and somehow it spread outside of OH ehshhshdhdhshshhd sorry

it's all forgiven, the photoshop is fabulous and you vastly improved a boring shirt. ;;

plus it's still real in my dreams.

Click here to view the Tweet

1. BTS

2. Seventeen

3. TXT

4. EXO

5. NU'EST

6. SF9

7. SHINee

8. INFINITE

9. MONSTA X

10. Winner

11. Astro

12. BTOB

13. NCT

14. Veryvery

15. B1A4

 

nice to see INFINITE (and for that matter SHINee and B1A4 as well) keeping a strong rank with all the younger trending groups out there.

I'm Indian (South Indian, brown skin tone) so I was knew that they weren't ignoring me because I was a foreigner because of racism I experienced, but consequently I spoke to a lot of straight Korean guys and girls and, though most of them were really awkward, they weren't homophobic and I never felt I had to hide my homosexuality.

No, i don't mean about racism, i mean about homophobia.

In Korea (and more so in Japan) people will often give you a "free pass" to be however you are because you are from a different country. Most of the people who readily communicate you will also have a level of international exposure/interest.

 

 

 

Recently? I mean, think about how many gay celebs there are in western countries? You've got Lady Gaga and the like, but you never see that many gay people, despite the entertainment industry being a really gay friendly place. I just think that there aren't likely to be many gay people in kpop and if they were they'd have come out.

the entertainment industry is largely *accepting* of gay people, but it is extremely stifling when it comes to that information getting out. entertainers are strongly discouraged from revealing their sexuality, and many companies will actively arrange dating rumors with members of the opposite sex even today and even in places like the US.

'' Dozens arrested as South Korean military conducts 'gay witch-hunt' '' 

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/11/asia/south-korea-lgbt-military/index.html

i was scared this was happening again. thank god this is just the 2017 one.

 

"But it's true. Young Koreans aren't homophobic at all IMO. I never felt like I had to hide my sexuality there."

 

Question 1: Are you Korean or are you from abroad?

most depressing update of 2019:

 

Suho's BOTTOM shirt was just a photoshopped BOSTON shirt (spoiler'd for boringness):

 

 

 

 

sorry for unintentionally deceiving all of you good gays, bis, and ally straights into thinking that the fabulous tshirt actually existed for purchase.

 

God this has been on my mind so much lately. Two older guys in their 30s I know just came out as bi and they both said that they've gone their whole lives unquestioningly thinking of themselves as straight. My bisexual ex was the same, thought he was straight until our relationship and has only dated girls since. My 'straight' friend who loves his wife just opened up to me about hooking up with guys in TGIFridays bathrooms when he was younger. Sorry if this is too much personal venting lmao but sexuality does exist on a spectrum and bisexuality in particular can go unstated or even undetected for forever. I think a lot of people don't realise that bisexuality doesn't have to be a 50/50 thing to be be bisexuality.

 

Even if rumours are true and there are only a couple of self-aware/known-about lgbt members in certain groups, even if a member or two of a group came out and the rest remained silent, it never rules out the possibility of there being more. Tbh I think in general there are a lot more lgbt people in the world than we all think given those who aren't aware or active about it.

 

(convo on bisexuality in society)

 

 

 

on a side note, i was looking up old clips/info of Suho commenting on LGBT stuff and look what i found:

 

 

King.

 

( I apologize in advance, I rarely use English )

All these rumors/gossips I take from reliable resources (70-80%). Usually they are from weibo and pann. 

 

BTS

• I haven't found anything exact about them. One resource tells that there are 2 gays in group, another one - 1 gay and 1 bi. The most reliable resource informs about only 1 bisexual member. It was also said that he wants to come out through his songs in the nearest future.
• I know that Suga, RM and Jin were/are in the serious relationships with girls, Jungkook isn't very interested in relationships, Jimin, on the other hand, dates a lot.

GOT7

• BamBam is bisexual 
• There is another one lgbt member in Got7

Exo

• From 1 bisexual to 1 gay +1 bisexual. Usually there are rumors about Baekhyun.

   

​IKON

• One gay/bi in group. He had a crush on another member.

  ​

​Seventeen

• Verkwan is/was actively pushed by agency to hide the real couple (I don't know if they are still together). Some people think it could be Vernon/Minghao. 
• At least 3 lgbt members

 

Monsta x

• One said 2 gays, another - 3. The resource in which I believe the most tells about 2 gays and 1 bisexual.
• There was a couple in Mx before, they broke up because of agency. They were awkard after that, but now everything is okay. 

Wanna One

• ​A lot of rumors about them. 2 gays in the group. One member had a crush on a straight one, he confessed and there was a big homophobic (?) quarrel after (I don't believe this one at all).

Super Junior

• I didn't find anything interesting. All I know Heechul was in relationships with the girls, so maybe he is bisexual/pansexual.
• ​1 gay.

   

TVXQ

• YunJae was a real couple. They were dating for a long time. They bickered a lot and finally broke up in 2016-2017 (?). They are friends now and Yunho has a lover.

NCT

• ​2  gays and 2 bisexual.
• There is a couple in NCT, Ten and (?).

1. N, Key, Jokwon, Kevin (U-Kiss) are gays, it's kinda obviously.
2.  Reporters caught a male couple kissing on the street/in the park. Their agency/agencies paid a big amount of money to hide it. And yeah, usually dating rumors are revealed after two-sided discussions. Agencies pay or let to publish articles.
3. ​Unfortunatelly I didn't find anything about The Boyz, ONF...​
4. Agencies (especially big ones like SM) create couples for fanservice before debut. They usually choose close friends or people who are comfortable with this. 

    

   I have more, but I'm tired. Maybe I post something later. 

 

"All these rumors/gossips I take from reliable resources (70-80%). Usually they are from weibo and pann."

 

i don't know how how "reliable" that is, but i appreciate you sharing all of this with us, especially the bisexual, couples, and yunho tea. i also appreciate the understanding that rumors have their limits (such as with the enigma heechul etc.).

 

i expect there could be a few scattered LGBT individuals as well outside of this rumored number, depending on personal privacy, openness within confidante circles (if the LGBT idol in question even has a circle of confidantes), and even self-awareness (many LGBT individuals, especially bisexual individuals, can go their whole lives without realizing it).

 

hoping that BTS member is able to come out in the way that he wants, and that he will receive the support he needs and deserves if he chooses to.

 

---

 

Got7: could be Jackson or Jinyoung... i don't know them well enough to tel much further, but Jackson is either LGBT himself or just a fantastic ally and Jinyoung has that mix of fabulous and distance/walled-ness that gives me potential vibes.

 

EXO: i think Sehun is the most obvious and the Out there, not just in the group but the whole genre. if 1 more is there and bisexual... i think while the "public" might scream thirsty Baekhyun or androgynously beautiful Kai, my guess would be Suho. he's been confident and supportive since i time that LGBT fans/matters were silently shoved under a rug. then again, i'm not so sure about "bisexual," so who knows. honestly you could tell me any member of EXO was LGBT and i would believe it -- only thing that would surprise me would be if Sehun liked women.

 

SuJu: omg who is the rumored member then if it isn't Heechul?? Siwon is mostly only discussed by i-fans from what i've seen... so it's probably gotta be Ryeowook (with Donghae + Eunhyuk presumably being a promotional couple/great friends)

 

TVXQ: yep, yep

 

other groups: i don't know these groups enough to way a single thing.

Click here to view the Tweet

 

Also Chanyeol is a bisexual legend

Click here to view the Tweet

i swear Chanyeol is chaotic gay.

nobody believes him so he just goes 1000% to fuck us all up.

Hot Damn! 

 

 

 

 

L is getting really thirsty, sweaty and flustered here   

 

 

 

 

 

 

yessssss the gif version. this moment was so bizarre

mint chocolate is factually the best chocolate.