annetamiau

On a different note, no one finds it even remotely strange that Jungkook got his tattooist's name on his arm? Granted, the tattoo is tiny and the guy's famous (he has tattoed several celebrities including Jo Kwon) and critically acclaimed, but it's not the common thing to do afaik (tattooists don't 'sign' their art in the way that other artists do). Jungkook can be quite random at times and the both of them haven't publicly interacted before, so I don't think it really means anything, but if the tattooist were a woman everyone'd be sure that they were married and expecting twins already. So I just wanted to at least mention it. Here's the link, second picture. It's definitely a tattoo and not a watermark, the tattooist mentioned it in his previous post. https://www.instagram.com/p/Ce8TF5DPUE0/

I was the one who first brought Heechul up in a comparison to Jo Kwon. I did it because Heechul used to be in the top 5 (maybe top 7) idols everyone assumed were gay/bi before his relationship with Momo was made public, but now it seems that the consensus is that he's just straight? I just wanted to know if you would say the same about another highly rumored idol. I agree with several posters though that the comparison should have been with Key instead of Jo Kwon. And I also find it interesting how people have concluded that Heechul's just a creep. Why would so many women in the industry be friends with him publicly if they were aware that he was just a creep fueling his gay rumours to get close to women? The thing is, everything you list as proof that Heechul's into women are things that could be said about 99% of male idols. Pretty sure all of them have at some point expressed interest in women, whether genuine or not, be it through the ideal type question or through mentions of past girlfriends or school crushes on girls, sometimes prompted by their bandmates. For example, take Jimin, who I believe is gay, and there are pictures of him in high school with his alleged girlfriend. And for the record, I do believe Heechul can be bi, it's just that the way the public perception of him has shifted in this forum kinda rubs me the wrong way (which is on me, this is a free space and I know all opinions are valid, I'm just a bit sensitive). I do find his relationship with Momo very suspicious though. Shortly after it was confirmed, he went on to hold a show about couples with a foreign member were everyone teased him playfully. Like, what are the chances? What can be said for sure, and not just for this thread, is that having a public girlfriend will effectively kill all your gay rumors. Not just Heechul, but Ryeowook as well. Like, I believe he's 1000% gay, with Heechul there's room for more speculation, but with Ryeowook I'm convinced. Since his agency confirmed that he was dating, everyone was like 'see, you can't just tell by the mannerisms'. Again, I want to clarify that I believe some dating 'scandals' are true, regardless of the agency's stance on them, like Jungkook's one with the tattoo artist or G-dragon's girlfriends (an example of a guy that's flamboyant but still atttracted to women, imo).

I had never heard about D.I.P so I have no opinion on them, but I think what you say about members of same company groups could make sense. I could see it happening with idols that trained together for some time despite ending up in different groups, or with groups that have a similar status in the industry. Funnily enough, the first people that come to mind are Taemin and Kai, who used to hang out a lot ages ago and even had paparazzi pictures taken of them. I don't think there was ever anything between them, but I think Taemin is definitely part of the community (Kai I'm not sure). I never said gay, I said part of the community. In my experience, men who are very very camp are generally at least bisexual, even if they end up marrying a woman that they feel attracted to and have kids. I didn't know about Barry Humphries , but I looked him up and this 'drag' persona seems to be just a persona, and he also has a male one I see. I'm from a southern European country, and at least here it used to be quite common for certain comedians to have one or several female characters that they would keep over the years. It was a completely different thing from drag culture. I don't find this man particularly famboyant either, but I'll admit I've only watched like 10 minutes of him. Also @starryjm, that was an interesting clip, thanks! I find Jungkook super difficult to read. I strongly believe he's attracted to women and he has the most believable dating scandal in BTS, but with men I'm not sure. I still tend to believe he's straight, though one of the things that make me raise an eyebrow sometimes is his one sided long-term crush on RM. He's said he fell for him or that he's his boy crush in several occasions through the years. It's hard to say how much this crush and the song from the clip are just k-pop banter and how much truth there is to them.

Not disagreeing with you, but this doesn't negate the fact that very stereotypically camp people are still very likely to be part of the community, even if they are bisexual and not gay. I feel being woke nowadays is saying that stereotypes are absolutely unfounded because there are people that don't fit them, and that's just not true in my experience. On a different note, I've seen some posts saying that Heechul is very likely straight. When did this switch in opinion happen? Even if his relationship with Momo wasn't a publicity stunt, he still has a very valid decade long list of receipts, including a possible past relationship with a male non celebrity. Why is he not considered bisexual? Also, a very random question: if news broke tomorrow of say, jo kwon being in a relationship with a woman and his agency confirmed it, would you believe it? It's just been on my mind latetly, and seeing how quick everyone was to believe Heechul's relationship, I've been wondering about that.

I completely agree with your description of Jhope's personality. As for his comment about earrings, I would say that in a way he's one of the most conservative members of BTS, whis is why I think that, regardless of what his sexuality is, he's going to marry a woman. Plus, you can just tell his parents are very important to him and I don't think he would ever deviate from what is expected of a perfect son (well, besides pursuing an idol career). About the meaning of his words at MAMA, it could very well be about someone else in BTS, and it does fit the context of a turbulent moment for the group. Still, sometimes gay/bi people need to 'learn' that one can be attracted to the same gender, that this is a real possibility that exists for a big number of absolutely normal people, especially if they're from a conservative country and have few and negative impressions of the LGBT+ community. I'm not saying that he was not aware of the existance of gay/bi people, but that year might have been key to realizing that same-sex relationships are exactly the same as straight relationships. As for the Camila Cabello clip, just for context he later said that he wanted to talk to her about their collab but hesitated because of the language barrier and ended up not saying anything (and it's not like there was ever a fuss about it, which would have been a completely different story had he been a maknae line member). Edited again cause I made a mistake: the collab was with Becky G not Camila Cabello. My bad. I blame it on lack of sleep. Ignore my last paragraph please.

I know this is all really subjective, but when idols vagely show support towards the LGBT+ community in interviews, the argument is often made that they are just responding to a question and not being personal (which is fair enough). However, I don't get how one can see Jhope's comment in MAMA as impersonal, given that it was completely unmprompted and the thought resonated enough to him to say it in an award acceptance speech. As for expressing attraction, J-hope's face literally lit up when he saw the ripped shirtless guy that rescued Jimin's towel in Hawaii. We can't read his thoughts of course, and it might have been just platonic admiration, but if we can count a 2 second shot from behind of him leaning in to watch a perfomance (Chloe's at the AMA), I don't see why this instance shouldn't count.

I don't get why so many people think J-hope is straight. Like, I absolutely agree that there's nothing romantic between him and any members of BTS, but I wouldn't say his flamboyant personality is completely fake. He's not naturally hyper, but all the mannerisms are still there. Plus, during MAMA 2018 he unpromptedly said that he 'really felt and learnt that there are lots of people out there experiencing various types of love' (I had to look up the quote), which to me reads as a reference to the LGBT+ community. And that was absolutely unprompted and in the context of an emotional time (it was the same award ceremony where he broke down and Jin said that they had considered disbanding a few months earlier). I'm not saying he isn't bisexual, but I highly doubt he is straight.

First of all, thanks for sparking this discussion about NJ and for writing such detailed posts. That said, I still think there is a good chance that the curly haired guy with the earrings and glasses is his boyfriend. No one is saying NJ has no other friends or that this guy is the only person he hangs out with. Also, I don't see how you can conclude that NJ hangs out way more with his long haired friend, or that there are two guys with similar characteristics, . The pictures you linked were taken from very different angles and in different years even, looking at them I would conclude that they are indeed the same person (but I understand that my guess is as good as anyone else's, we're all just speculating based on a few blurry pictures that span through years, it's not hard science). I also don't think that sharing clothes in this context can be compared to having similar beanies, considering that black beanies are a very popular item among young guys. Plus, it's not like we've seen NJ with the curly haired guy together dozens of times, we have a very limited amount of pictures and in several of them they are sharing clothes. With regards to the heart picture, I think NJ was trolling the fandom (as he was aware of the rumour) and that's why he started posting more of his other friends. I don't think the guy in the heart picture is the curly haired guy, but I also don't think that this discredits the possibility of curly hair being NJ's boyfriend. In addition, I feel like you exagerated the fandom's reaction, as if thousands of people started tracking them irl or something. What I saw was that for like three days, if you typed 'Namjoon boyfriend' on twitter, the pics would appear, but a huge number of people treated it as a joke, similar to the wife rumour that NJ had had before. But everyone moved on pretty fast, as it usually happens on social media, and now if you type the same thing you'll only find posts about how boyfriend NJ is. Not a single one refers to any of his friends. Lastly, someone else mentioned that NJ was very politically correct and neutral when addressing LGBT+ topics, and that this pointed to him being straight. I think context is important here too, as there is the 'when we don't have a boyfriend or girlfriend' comment that came a bit out of nowhere. One could argue that it was a language issue, or that he was speaking on behalf of some other member of BTS, but he still could have said 'when we don't have a girlfriend', and I feel that he became more guarded after that (again, 100% speculation on my part). I wrote this huge block of text but I'm actually very on the fence about NJ, and two years ago I would have guessed he was straight. But then again, I think that about 60% of idols are part of the community in some capacity, and in BTS the only ones that strike me as definitely straight as of now are Jin and maybe Jung Kook.

I know that this has been said before, but I've seen it several times in the last 24 hours and I felt compelled to unlurk: for statistics to work, the sample needs to be random. If the sample is not, statistics don't work. Simple as that. I don't know the estimated percentage of the population that takes an interest in reading, but say it's 30%. In a high school reading club, this percentatge will definitely be higher. All idols are people that work in the entertainment industry, and this makes the sample not random, so statistics that refer to the general population cannot be applied. Now, I have no idea how many idols are LGBT+, but I had to get this off my chest (and sorry that I replied to you specifically, my reply is more of a general statement with regards to statistics).

We can agree to disagree, but the sentence I've highlighted is downright false. Here's a video: Half the video (starting at 0:40) is from this show about dating a foreigner, but there are many other clips in the video. You can see he doesn't get any shit, very much the opposite. And come on, coincidences do exist, but this one is at least suspicious. With regards to the rest of your message, dating scandals do have a negative impact, but mostly on social media and just for a few days, weeks at most. So I guess I don't see them as this huge sword hanging over the idols' head. I don't think they are as big a threat for idols or companies from a monetary pov as people think (at least from 3rd-4th generation groups), but I do acknowledge the negative impact on the idols' mental health. And with regards to couples never being seen together, you have a point, but I also think that idols are in general very private people. We don't see them with family members or non-idol friends, and even when they hang out with other idols, we don't see it unless they upload something on Instagram. So, why should we see them with their partners? I guess my point is that, to me, K-entertainment (for 3rd/4th gen groups) is not that different from Hollywood in the sense that PR stunts can and do happen, as they don't cause a monetary loss for the companies. Not saying that every relationship that is made public is fake, of course, it's probably not the majority.

I think we should let go of the kpop urban legend that dating scandals are career ending. The idols involved do get hate on stan Twitter for like two weeks - which is completely unfair and probably has a negative impact on their mental health - but then everyone moves on. Kai, Jennie, Baekhyun and Taeyon ( to name a few) are still massively popular today. In Heechul's particular case, the dating scandal has definitely had a positive impact on his reputation. Yes, he was called a groomer by international fans for a few days, but on the Korean side everyone let out a sight of relief. Shortly after it was revealed that he was dating Momo, he even participated in a show that was about Koreans who had a foreign partner (like, how convenient is that?). I don't have an opinion on other dating scandals, but this one I find suspicious to say the least.

I agree Yeonjun doesn't seem straight at all. I think it's one of those cases when someone in the group (Soobin) is so clearly not straight that he outshines the others in terms of gayness (understood as an umbrella term).

To me, this is Heechul 2.0. I guess SuJu are not young enough to get away with not marrying or having public significant others. I feel idols from the 4th generation will have it better, even if they can't publicly come out either. Let's just hope Key or Jo Kwon aren't next.

Could you add me, please?

I think I oversimplified my thoughts when I was writing my answer. I completely agree that being closeted is always harmful in a way, even in a accepting environment (been there, done that), and for some idols it must be frustrating not being able to freely express that part of themselves. Plus, the 'what ifs' are always there, idol or not (what if something gets leaked, etc.), and idols are 'famous', so they face way more exposure than the average citizen. But I still feel that idols have more of a security blanket, so to speak, than the general population, meaning that it's more difficult for them to be perceived as gay than for, say, an office worker. I stumbled upon this video when I was trying to understand cultural differences (I'm from Spain, so it's not a matter of being touchy or showing affection, everyone is super touchy here too, especially teenagers and young adults, regardless of gender): As a disclaimer, I know that you can't 'tell' sexual orientation by physical appearance, make up or fashion choices, that it's offensive and that there are plenty of people who do not fit the stereotypes, but the part of the video that caught my eye and the reason why I link it is at 5:25. He was talking about things that are stereotypically perceived as gay in Korea, but then he said 'idols can do everything'. While being famous has its downsides (more exposure, antis...), I really feel that idols are not judged by the same standards as the rest of the Korean population and can get away with a lot more, which in a convoluted way might give some of them a sense of protection. Because let's be real, shippers have zero credibility, and I don't know about all Korean antis, but at least the BTS ones do not try to claim they aren't straight (or not that I know of) and instead go for things like smoking, dating, physical appearance... Plus, the fact that there are fans who genuinely believe that Jo Know is straight speaks for itself.

I don't follow NCT closely so I don't really have an opinion, but I disagree with the logic that an LGBT+ person wouldn't be that over the top, or that everyone who is big on fanservice is consequently straight. I think it basically depends on their personality, and to a lesser degree how comfortable they are with their sexuality. At the end of the day, kpop is like heaven for a closeted person, they can do whatever they want and everyone will blame it on the fanservice, no one will point a threatening finger at them like it could happen in real life. As for the coming out question, I don't think anyone will come out voluntarily in the next years/few decades. Many idols would be able to handle a coming out in terms of popularity, especially from groups with a big western fanbase, but doing so would inevitably cause the company to lose money, so there is no way they would allow it. I could see something getting leaked, but even in that scenario it would be easy to dismiss (like Jo Kwon's messages with another idol, earlier in their careers). What I think will happen in the next few years is that we'll probably get more glass closet situations, Jo Kwon's style.

Genuine question here: why do you say it was just for the laughs with Tony? The whole hanbook scene yeah, but 90% of the show wasn't; I have actually never seen Jimin try so hard to break the language barrier. Also, the way he stared at that girl's chest in AHL is what convinced me he is most likely gay. And I don't think it's such a laughable idea that none of them are straight, it honestly sounds more plausible than just one of them being gay/bi. I only have a solid opinion on 3 though (Taehyung, Jimin, J-hope)

I'm quite new, but I would also like to be part of a discord group. I don't have anyone irl to talk about these topics either.

I don't follow NCT closely and I actually read about the Yuta rumor in this thread about a year ago, but I've checked the posts and it seems to be a baseless rumor. Apparently, some sasaeng had proof that he was gay and was gonna expose him, but I couldn't find any screenshots of the original text or anything. I shouldn't have mentioned it before making sure it was a 'reasonable' rumor and not completely made up. Also, thanks to everyone that answered my question!

Hi again! I was one of the people who said that Jungkook showed 'no reaction to men'. It's probably not the best way to put it, and just to clarify I mean that I don't tend to see anything in the way he interacts with men (beyond the typical fanservice stuff and the fact that he is a very tactile person) that could point to attraction. Not saying that I've seen it with women, Jungkook's just hard to read for me and doesn't react in general. He does stare at people a lot, but I don't take this as a sign of attraction either. However, there are solid 'receipts' that point to him not being straight. On a completely different note, I've been wondering about one thing. It might sound weird but hear me out. It's about K-antis. We know that there are antis for pretty much every popular idol, including ones that are likely not straight, and they constantly try to spread lies and misinformation about said idols in order to destroy their image. So, why do you think K-antis never suggest that an idol might be gay/bi, even if it's a lie? Besides Yuta's case (and I think that was a sasaeng, not your generic twitter anti) I don't think idols are targeted for their sexuality, not even Taehyung, who we pretty much all agree that is very likely not straight and has a good number of K-antis on twitter. These accounts show no values or empathy whatsoever, pick on the smallest or most trivial stuff (smoking, looking bored, wearing baggy clothes) and definitely don't have the 'my oppa can't be gay' mindset, so what's the reason? (Same with Jungkook actually, but there is not so much consensus on him not being straight).

That's a good question! My opinion is that 3rd/4th generation idols are out to the majority of their group members and that the industry isn't currently as hostile towards LGBT+ idols as we are made to believe despite Korean society still being quite homophobic, but that's because I'm of the (unpopular) opinion that more than half of the idol population (I'd say about 60%, at least) are LGBT+, especially male idols. I could write a whole essay on why I think this, but the point here is that imo 1/2 of a group (on average) is going to end up somewhere in the spectrum. I don't think trainees are generally out to other trainees, either because they might still be figuring themselves out (being teenagers and all) or because of how competitive and aggressive the environment can be. I also think trainee period is when idols might be more exposed to homophobic comments and behaviours from their peers. I do believe that things get better with each generation, though. For first/second generation groups, some of the members not being straight might have been the elephant in the room for a good number of years, while for third/fourth generation groups I think the members might acknowledge it more naturally, even if not always explicitly. Take Jimin and Taehyung, who I believe to be gay/bi, there's no way that they aren't out to each other in some capacity (not necessarily in a big coming out kinda way). Of course, that's just my take on something that I have no real insight into, so I could be totally wrong. I also think it depends on every idol's personality, how reserved or open they are and how close the members are, so it probably varies from group to group and company to company. What I firmly believe, though, is that about 60% of male idols aren't straight, and the industry must be 'aware' of that in some way. Going back to BTS and Jungkook, I thought the rumors about the girlfriend during his trainee days were legit, and his backhug with the tattoo artist was at least more believable than the 'they made eye contact' type of rumors, but I do have a strong feeling that he isn't straight (as I said in my other post, I go back and forth a lot with him but now I'm in the 'not straight' boat). What kinda puzzles me is that he doesn't really 'react' to attractive men, he doesn't get nervous/giggly like other BTS members. But I totally believe his crush on Namjoon was a romantic one, going by how he has mentioned several times how attractive Namjoon was (not just cool or good at rapping), even semi-recently in 2019 Festa (28:30), and I feel like Namjoon 'friendzones' him a lot, if that makes sense. Even in this video, the way Namjoon says 'Now I'm scared' feels like he's saying 'Please, don't say anything too gay' (I'm probably just reaching, but that was the impression I got).

I'm late to the party, but ATEEZ are fascinating and they have a very good group dynamic (rookies tend to be awkward at first, but they are not). I'm aware that they do looooooots of fanservice and I'm going to sound completely delusional, but as of now the only one I don't think is part of the community is Jongho (and maybe San). The ones I'm more certain about are Hongjoong, Seonghwa, Yeosang, Yunho and Mingi (I hadn't paid attention to him before, but now I don't understand how I could have considered him straight). Sadly I don't have specific receipts, just certain mannerisms or the way some of them dance sometimes (like Yunho, he can dance like a diva and it doesn't come out forced or comedic). Wooyoung and San are tricky; woosan is probably the biggest ship in ATEEZ, and I don't take ships seriously, but at the same time I see some genuine sexual tension there, and also closeness, like in that one vlive where Wooyoung complained that Yeosang was acting distant and Hongjoong sided with Yeosang and said that Wooyoung had ditched him first and was together with San all the time (https://www.vlive.tv/video/167344?channelCode=C057DB, starts at minute 47). Also, any new opinions about BTS? The ones that I'm "sure" (as sure as an outsider can be) that are not straight are Taehyung, Jimin, J hope and Suga. Then Jungkook, but I go back and forth a lot with him. He has tons of what could be considered 'receipts', like how he came to Big Hit (RM could be seen as his 'gay awakening' and to this day he still mentions how he was very attractive when he first met him, and then there's the legendary 'wow thighs' quote), the fact that he wanted to shower alone when he first became a trainee, his music taste (I know that's debatable but still), and some mannerisms (fans tend to paint him as this super traditionally masculine character but I don't think he is). At the same time, he doesn't really have much of a reaction to men (no moments like Jimin's Malta scene or gushing over the florist), and he's the one who's had the most believable girlfriend rumors since debut (that girl who was a trainee with him, and last summer the tattoo artist). Straight, bi, gay? In conclusion, I have no idea (same with RM and Jin). (Sorry I don't contribute with gifs or pics, I'm very bad at finding them).

All of them had the same reaction but J-hope was in the middle of the frame so it's more noticeable. Honestly, this doesn't make me disregard this moment as a 'receipt' but question who in BTS is straight. Like, I know it's very, very unlikely that none of them are straight, but here we are. By the way, another group where it's difficult to spot the straight one/s is ATEEZ.

Thank you @Josaline , those were the two moments I was referring to (though the jacuzzi one looked more obvious in my mind, now it feels a bit underwhelming). Also, @KiriL you make a really good point saying that J-hope probably doesn't like LGBT+ content like Tae does, it's not like it's a requirement. And I had completely forgotten the Sam Smith dance thing he did with JK!

I don't think J-hope is straight, he's way more guarded than Tae when it comes to expressing interest in LGBT+ films, songs or artists but the look on his face when he saw the ripped man from Bon Voyage 2 get Jimin's towel was priceless (tbh that's true for most of them, J-hope just so happened to be in the middle of the frame so he stands out more). It's even more glorious in gif form but from a quick search I could only find a pic. This is why I have trouble making up my mind with BTS. There is also another instance of J-hope checking someone out (I think it's Tae) in a jacuzzi, but I can't find it now. It's more recent than the Hawaii thing, maybe from the last Bon Voyage? And he was also clearly checking out Jungkook's butt recently too, but I can't find it either (they were wearing suits I think), I'll try to find these two examples later.