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Posts posted by Shaandenigma
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On 9/27/2021 at 1:19 PM, annetamiau said:
I know that this has been said before, but I've seen it several times in the last 24 hours and I felt compelled to unlurk: for statistics to work, the sample needs to be random. If the sample is not, statistics don't work. Simple as that. I don't know the estimated percentage of the population that takes an interest in reading, but say it's 30%. In a high school reading club, this percentatge will definitely be higher. All idols are people that work in the entertainment industry, and this makes the sample not random, so statistics that refer to the general population cannot be applied. Now, I have no idea how many idols are LGBT+, but I had to get this off my chest (and sorry that I replied to you specifically, my reply is more of a general statement with regards to statistics).
Omg, THANK YOU, I was going to say the same thing. I've been more of a lurker recently and everytime people start throwing around statistics while ignoring that the idol population is not randomly selected, I have a mini aneurysm, lol. Not to mention that the studies on general population breakdowns of sexuality are based on self report data that is highly susceptible to response bias. Meaning the responses will be heavily influenced by societal perceptions and constructions of sexuality and those can vary widely even within cultures as no culture is a monolith.
And even if those stats were accurate, there is nothing to say that it would apply that only 1-2 members would be not straight in every individual group. If you took 100 idols and 10% were LGBT, it would remain true if those 10 idols were the tokens in 10 different groups, or all in one 10 member group.
In short it's better to look at each person individually to see if there is a good basis rather than engaging in bad statistical analysis and ruling out the possibility because "there are too many pinging my gaydar in this group so everyone except the one or two gayest must be straight, because"
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14 hours ago, mEeEeE said:
NOOOO. What I meant is the penis reacting to the MENTAL STIMULI in porn. Gay men react to homosexual stimuli, the male body...whereas straight men need to see a female body to get going. Yes I am well aware of friction is friction and gay men having children with women. But they don't get turned on by the woman right? The first poster mentioned Doyoung's possible pansexuality and said "we love him for that". I mean, how can you love someone for their sexual orientation, something they don't have control over/no choice. Is a pan person more worthy/lovable than a straight person?
Yes my whole masc4masc, ideal body comments came out very poorly and demonstrates a shallow understanding of gay men. I am sorry. I guess it still looks at the same-same aspect. Twinks, bears are male-looking. It's better to just disregard that Masc4masc paragraph. Again, I am sorry.
Okay, you're oversimplifying and conflating a lot of different things that are way more complex than you describe. This isn't a sexual health thread so I won't delve into it anymore other than to say the stimuli and experience of watching porn is very different from having sex with an actual person in the flesh, and there is a difference between general arousal and gratification.
I really think you are reading more into that Doyoung comment than what was meant. From my view, that poster was not implying that sexual orientation was a choice or that pansexuals are more worthy/lovable than a straight person (though some straight people can make it very hard to feel otherwise).
You're also conflating masculine and just being male bodied as the same thing and they aren't. When guys say they are "masc4masc" they are saying they behave/present in a traditionally masculine manner and want someone who also behaves however they believe a man should behave and present. They dislike femme men not because of their bodies, but how they behave and present themselves. Masc4masc is not an ideal standard in the community, it's actually a problematic concept and usually a red flag that the person who put that in their profile has some internalized homophobia to work out. I also brought up twinks and bears as two types that are different from that "ideal" you described to make a point that gay men are attracted to a variety of different men and aren't all looking for the same thing. A twink could have a thing for bears and avoid other twinks and vice versa. This is the same logic people used to say that Sehun and Chefsuke couldn't possibly be more than friends because Chefsuke wasn't the ideal standard lookwise that they'd imagine someone like Sehun would be with. Nevermind you can see couples like that all the time in the gay world.
The main point is this: gay men are not a monolith. We're not all into the same things and we don't all behave the same way. We're complex people and live complex lives like everyone else in the world.
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10 minutes ago, mEeEeE said:
Wait, are you telling me sexual orientation is a choice then???
Look my "gay guys want to fuck masculine-looking guys" was a very general and superficial statement and made it sound like gay men are just horny fucking-machines, which was not my intention and I'm sorry if I caused offence. Gay men are human, individual and have their 'type' just like straight men.
I'm just saying you just have to look at the 'ideal' male body which gay men like, such as Gogo boys...biceps, abs, firm butt, nice dick. A male body.
No sexual orientation isn't a choice, that wasn't the problem with the comment. Everything else was. The original comment about Doyoung "not caring about gender" was basically implying that the user thinks he's pan, and would base attraction on factors other than the gender of the person. That's not to say that people who have attraction exclusively to one gender or a leaning towards one only care about gender, but that isn't what the first poster was implying. The other problem with the first comment is that isn't how male anatomy works. As a guy I can tell you that all it takes is friction in the right places and you will get aroused even in a totally nonsexual situation. It's how there have been many a gay men who marry woman and have children with them that are conceived naturally despite them being gay or straight male sex workers who are gay for pay. You wouldn't enjoy the sex as much as you would with your preferred gender, but you would be able to do the deed at a basic "mechanical" level. So that was the problem with the first statement.
The second one is just reductive because not all gay men are into masculine/muscle men. What is "ideal" from a commercial perspective is not ideal for everyone. Masc4Masc is a niche and quite often is code for "I have major internalized homophobia and self-hatred going on." It's not a community-wide ideal. There are men who are only into twinks, there is a bear community that very much is the antithesis of that "ideal" you described. Gay men could also not be attracted to someone who would physically match their ideal but have a shitty personality that's a turn off. A lot of gay men don't even have a set body type preference. You acknowledge this, but yet double down on that ideal "Go-go boy" type that "gay men like," painting with a broadstroke when it's clear you only have a very shallow understanding of gay men and our experiences. That's the problem.
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2 hours ago, mEeEeE said:
"Doyoung to me doesn't give a fuck lol, he just doesn't care about genders and stuff and we love him for that"
I hope you understand that sexual orientation isn't a choice. As far as I've gathered, for males at least, it's what the penis (from the brain) reacts to (scientific studies have been done on this lol...straight vs gay vs lesbian porn). Sexuality has a biological basis, 'born this way'. There's no loving or hating someone for their sexual orientation. It just is.
Anyways, Doyoung seems like an open-minded person and a very good friend to Taeyong.
Well... this is a statement.
1 hour ago, mEeEeE said:And do people not know of the popularity of "Masc4Masc" on Grindr? Gay guys want to fuck masculine-looking guys. It's common for users to put how much they gym in their profile. Some dumb fangirls think heterosexually and assume the more feminine or smaller-looking partner must always be the bottom. Nah ah, that's not how it works in the gay world.
Honey, you aren't even in that world to be able to comment on how anything works. Like this is so ignorant on so many levels.
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Logging on here for the first time in ages because of OnlyOneOf and just wanted to draw attention to the breakdown of the concept for the whole mini from the description of the MV on the official channel. It's pretty long so I'll spoiler it:
Spoiler[Instinct Part. 1]
OnlyOneOf’s [Instinct Part. 1] is a cinematic album that tells a storyline, just like watching a movie.
The kind of love that The Boy Wearing COMME des GARÇONS feels is just like having a fever during the summer. The emotion of love of the boy, who is yet to become a grown-up, is quite impulsive and fickle. With the piano playing like the ripples across the heart, OnlyOneOf’s cinematic album begins.
The title track “libidO” shares the boy’s impulsive mind through the expressions of S.Freud. The mind’s energy “libidO” is considered as a feeling that shouldn’t be openly talked about in real life and should be concealed, so its existence is often denied. However, the more the boy tries to suppress “libidO”, the stronger it gets and the more impact it has on his subconscious behavior.
OnlyOneOf has been experimenting its musical spectrum and solidifying its depth with each album. Now, the group’s own musical colors are even more clarified. The group’s unique style of decadence and contemporary sound are conjoined just like DNA binding to create the new sound that is “libidO”.The subconsciousness of “libidO” naturally flows to “Instinct”. The gratifying sound of guitar strokes makes the boy’s heart beat faster. The boy lets himself go all out on falling in love faster and faster by instinct. Fans who have been showing their love to OnlyOneOf since the group’s debut will enjoy finding out that this song’s “the lip balm you gave me” part has a connection to “savanna”, the group’s debut song.
“byredO” and “libidO” stand against each other just like mirrors. Love can be a blessing while also be so cruel. Just like how even a pleasant scent can become too strong when sprayed too much, love also becomes bitter as obsession grows stronger. OnlyOneOf’s signature genre art pop, which was presented through “picassO” and “dOra maar”, evolves further with “byredO”.
“tear of gOd” tells a story of the boy, who has indulged himself in impulse, having a conversation with god. Through this music, all members expressed the boy making an effort to reach the voice of god by singing in female singers’ vocal range. The voice of god is presented through the melody created by a synthesizer.
Through the last track of the album, the boy’s narrative of impulse ends with his confession in a low-lying voice:“I called it you but it was actually me.”
After reading that and rewatching the MV, reviewing the lyrics, and looking into the group more, I wouldn't categorize this as queerbaiting for attention because too much creative thought and consideration went into the concept. Look specifically at the description for "libidO":
QuoteThe title track “libidO” shares the boy’s impulsive mind through the expressions of S.Freud. The mind’s energy “libidO” is considered as a feeling that shouldn’t be openly talked about in real life and should be concealed, so its existence is often denied. However, the more the boy tries to suppress “libidO”, the stronger it gets and the more impact it has on his subconscious behavior.
While same sex attraction isn't the only type of desire that can be "concealed," "denied," or "suppressed," it is a fitting portrayal of the concept. And outside the one throwaway "Girl, I just wanna know" line, gender is otherwise not mentioned. Honestly if not for the song literally being named "libido" and overtly about sexual desire, and a few select choreo moments, the majority of the imagery wouldn't be read as sexual, at least not enough to stir the backlash it's getting. There are no "omg are we about to kiss right now???" shots or anything that could be called lewd. The lyrics are also quite tame for a song named libido. Every BG that has had a "chic and sexy stage" has worn cropped/backless blazers with no shirt on with the occasional bondage harness thrown on. The only thing that sets this apart from what most other groups are doing, is that the concept is overtly about sexual desire, rather than just subliminally, paired with an overt display of same sex attraction that--to me--isn't done solely for the titilation of straight fangirls.
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14 hours ago, Lizzo said:
on that same topic, why the fuck has basically nothing been done about the burning sun??? fucking hate this
The investigation is ongoing, they just arrested a senior police officer a couple of weeks ago and indicted him like 3 days ago on suspicions of covering up what was going on in the nightclubs of his district, Burning Sun being one of them. This whole thing went way beyond just that one club and the kpop celebs involved.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/10/251_276959.html-
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^Great analysis as always from burntgucci, but also, there's an active discord?
Yesssss I posted the link awhile ago but here's one:
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Just sliding by with this because I know some people have been curious about a Discord and I was a point of contact for the old one (which is defunct). I started another lgbt kpop fan server back in August, that people here are free to join if they want. The only parameters are that it's 16+ and lgbt only, but there isn't any secrecy or hoops to jump through. We're small and chill and don't take ourselves too seriously and while we're obviously centered on kpop we talk about a lot of other stuff too. So if you're into that I encourage y'all to check it out:
https://discord.gg/UNeWDMM-
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Just going to say again that statistics are only as good as their sampling methods and there aren't many valid ones that reflect the proportion of the general population that is not straight. They are also heavily influenced by sociological factors like attitudes toward same-sex attraction and the construction of identities in how that influence response bias. You see this as social attitudes become more accepting of same-sex attraction, more people will report experiencing it.
All of that said, if there were accurate stats regarding the general population that were taken by a simple random sample, they wouldn't apply really to idols because idols are a self-selecting population (in that people have to decide to audition and accept an offer to be trained and then make it to debut). No one is just randomly born an idol, so the stats among idols wouldn't necessarily mirror the general populace. And since there hasn't been a study on idol sexualities, there is no way to say what is or is not a realistic percentage. As I stated before there are aspects of being an idol that I think LGBT identifying people could be more likely attracted to or have an advantage over their straight peers that it wouldn't be unreasonable for there to be a higher percentage among idols than what would be seen in the general population just because there generally is in the arts and entertainment fields to varying degrees.
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The main thing is that the guidelines about appropriate and inappropriate behavior need to be concrete and quantifiable. There needs to be a clear definition of what counts as "sexual content" and it can't be left up to interpretation by general users or mods. That's how this mess started. Implying someone may have a crush or they might be in a relationship doesn't imply anything about what they get up to in bed. When people start talking about positions the idols in question would take or roles they would play or sex acts they would be good at, that clearly crosses the line into sexual territory. I think we can all agree that that is not appropriate discussion regarding minors and shouldn't be tolerated at all since you have no way of actually verifying users ages here. We need to stop conflating romance with sex. Like clearly we would assume if two people are dating or have a crush they would probably also sleep with that person, it's an unspoken conclusion. But that is a far cry from going into detail about a person's sex life. Establishing clear guidelines that you can fall back on when making decisions cuts down on users being able to spin a situation they personally don't like but is still harmless to the idol in question (like saying they might not be straight) into something it isn't with aim of just shutting the topic down.
In regards to The Bar, I don't see why a forum that allows minors to open accounts needs an nsfw section unless you can restrict access to it. That just opens you up for all sorts of liabilities. I don't think raising the age for idols to be "fair game" changes that it is inherently creepy to count down the days until you can post all kinds of smut about them without going to jail. I don't think anyone can control that ick factor, but you could say one is only allowed to post content for those purposes if that content is dated after they reach legal adult age. That's pretty much the only thing you can do if you aren't going to abolish the section entirely.
What this thing showed is that there is too much room for people's personal biases to affect what reports and claims are taken seriously or not and how it gets handled by the mods. Everything needs to be clear and concrete.-
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Except he clearly didn't change since went on a homophobic tirade just two days ago on the thread speculating about male idols who could be gay. Didn't even touch the lesbian thread. And his Twitter activity was recent. So where was the change? This is not the hill to die on.
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was brought here by the drama lmao
and I’ve been trying to sift through the mess and have gotten very tired
and tbh I can’t remember ever having posted here, so while I’m here can I ask any LGBT users:
around what portion of Kpop male idols do you think are LGBT?
and which male idols have never pinged your gaydar?
Everyone has different opinions on specific idols. I think the people who go unquestioned here as most likely not straight are JoKwon, Key, Heechul, Ten and some others I'm blanking on. Given the nature of the idol industry in the sense of the way it is presented, the general discouragement of dating (so it wouldn't be weird for an idol to not date most of their career or not talk about it), there is probably an above average proportion of non-straight idols than the general population but how much so can't be said.
In terms of the last question, a vast majority of groups and soloist never get brought up, most discussion centers around the same people so I would say a good majority of idols don't ping anyone here? But like there are so many groups that people aren't familiar enough with or don't have enough content to even get a sense about them to really know.
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Mods, I love you, and I know the hard work you do to this website and the energy and time you put into this ungrateful work. I really do. But this ain't it, really.
I have no idea why you decided this thread should be the start of a cleansing while The Bar exists (and Somi already has a 18+ thread that was created 3 days after her 18th birthday, while she's still considered underaged in SK for another year anyway). Talking about someone's sexuality doesn't mean you are talking about their sexual lives, nor does it mean you're sexualizing them either, the two aren't the same at all. I've been in the Lesbian thread for quite a while now, and all I've ever seen is: harmless stuff, people trying to find representation where they could, people trying to find an echo to their experience of being LGBTQ and see if others are going through the same thing (others being idols), and the occasional fluffy light ship. What I have not seen on the other hand, was people sexualizing idols and acting outright ugly and creepy about it.
Those threads have ecosystems of their own, they have intelligent people knowing when to step in when they see others crossing the lines (although it happens rarely), they have mature people stepping in to say "nah fam, don't ship, this is delusional" whenever they see that happen. Those two threads in particular, are a heaven for the OH LGBTQ fam, a place in which people talk about the experience of being LGBTQ in this world, and how idols might be as well, in a harmless way.
I understand my LGBTQ fam getting extremely icky at those pedophilia insinuations, because that's only ever been the one recurring association homophobes have made about homophobia since like the dawn of times. This is why shit went haywire, and I don't feel like y'all really get that as well. Y'all also need to understand that we have underage people in these forums, and they should be allowed to talk about those topics as well, as long as it's done in a respectful way? An underage fan looking up to an underage idol because they might be LGBTQ, and looking for guidance and representation is... totally harmless? Lots of LGBTQ people did it while growing up, because the representation of our people is so scarce that finding people who have the same sexual orientations as we do, and have to face the world from that same social angle as we do, is actually very helpful and important.
There is still time to nullify this new rule, or make the proper changes that will not make this LGBTQ community feel a little more ostracized and targeted. There is still time to admit this wasn't done in the best way, nor carefully thought out. We can do better.
Because right now, this is not a really good look to this all of this unfolds under the pretense of "protecting children (and idols) from being sexualized" while at the same time, members like CarolinaPanthersFan are still not banned from this website.
Anyway, love to my LGBTQ fam!
This was so well spoken and touches on a point that I also wanted to add about that thread. The speculations are all done to SUPPORT potentially LGBT idols and not to harm or degrade them. We aren't looking to "expose" or "out" anyone which is why there is a standard of only posting publically available information mostly from their personal public social media accounts, official company content, fancams from official public appearances, and excerpts from official interviews and media appearances. Sometimes fansite photos get posted and predebut info is a sketchy matter that toes the line of invasion of privacy but these are usually things that easily come up with an internet search. No one would post private conversations that would clearly only be obtained by hacking or spying on an idol and if it were, the thread would quickly make sure that info was deleted and didn't spread because as non-hetero people we know that outing someone against their will is a horrible thing and we are very aware of the reprucussions against the idols if they were outed. Thus why there is only like one openly gay idol (Holland) and we have to speculate in the first place to identify representation. To have that spun as an obsessive witch hunt like we are trying to hurt the idols we care about just like any other fan does is so off base and insidious.
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Let me begin by saying this so everyone has a better idea of why I reacted the way I did:
Even if I'm not the Head Mod anymore, I absolutely hate when mods are attacked and called things that they aren't. As someone who has been with this site since it was founded, went from JM to mod to head mod and now admin, I know hard it is to please people and try to find a balance among such a diverse range of people from all ages and walks of life. When the mods are attacked I see red. I'm also extremely sarcastic, so you've probably seen my remarks by that one person posting my PM replies everywhere out of context.
For a few days Pirine was being attacked and called a homophobe, intolerant, etc. As far as I'm concerned none of these people calling her these things know her in person, so I'm not sure where they get these ideas from, but it annoyed me (us) tremendously. She already explained why she did what she did and how it began so I'm not going to repeat all of that, its in the OP.
Normally these things die down after a few days but there was a very vocal minority of people who wouldn't stop asking and antagonizing her, and eventually us (the admins) for an answer to her behavior and the behavior of the mods in general. A certain person who contacted us was given an answer by an admin, but they weren't content with it. At this point I was fed up and I formulated a post that in hindsight was definitely not done correctly, and after reading it I can see why some interpreted as homophobic or anti-gay.
Let me begin again by saying this, you can be as gay as you want, you'll find no problems with me. We'll go out for a drink, dinner, whatever. I'm from South Florida, that should say a lot. Of course, none of this means I can't be homophobic I get that, none of you really know me aside from (now) this super intolerant admin whose "true color"s have come out, but the idea is laughable to me given my circle of friends, the staff that we have, etc. In my mind I know what and who I am. I know the mod team, I know we have no such people in the team. Hence why it also hurts me when people start attacking them and calling them things they aren't.
At this point nothing we say will please 100% of everyone reading this. As I was reading up on the threads that were made, all the new posts in the gay thread, the AAM, the PM's, its clear there are many things that people have bandwagoned on now to believe true. Its impossible to dissect all of it, but the core of it is that many of you now assume I (we) are homophobic, and that I threw dog whistles in there, among other things. It wasn't my intention for my post to be interpreted that way, in my mind what I said sounded pretty straight to the point, we all talked about it collectively and didn't want minors being discussed, it seemed pretty simple to me.
But I see now that this has led to a bigger issue involving minors in general that we didn't anticipate. If I genuinely offended anyone I want to apologize, I know the LGBT community to this day is marginalized in many aspects of modern society, I can see that an authority figure going off can definitely come off as intolerant and reminiscent of certain governments imposing restrictions and turning back in time the advancements accomplished. Again, it wasn't meant to be interpreted that way and I realize now after reading my post over a few times that it def could be interpreted as anti-gay and homophobic.
So, what's done is done. Those of you who have formulated your own ideas and will stick with it, I'm sorry I can't change your mind. Those who knew what I was going for, thank you for seeing it the way it was intended but also for pointing out my mistakes in it. For sure could have been formulated better on my part, but my point was in there. Now, what I also want everyone to understand was that this was a decision done by all of us, admins and mods alike. To what extent we will take this issue of minors on the forum is TBD. But we will let you all know very soon.
I'm from South Florida too and considering a gay couple got bashed on SOUTH BEACH at PRIDE just last year, that really doesn't mean anything, neither does your circle of friends we don't know.
When you are an admin, you need to put your personal feelings aside about the mods under you and how you feel about the idea of the thread and need to stick to what your established guidelines are. You also need to properly read through a thread and pinpoint what the point of contention was and if it broke said rules before taking any course of action. If you had done that in the first place you would have established that a) the idols in the "offending" post weren't even minors and b) there was nothing remotely sexual about the post, therefore the report was false and the pedophilia claims baseless. Given that they were baseless, they should have been the first comments deleted (it was the last from that line of conversation to be, but the posts, which were educational by the definition you laid out in the gay thread, were the first ones scrubbed). You could have even scrubbed the whole convo and just simply said "we deleted so no one could bring it up again and you can get back on topic." You wouldn't be at this place now if you had just done that and left it alone. You also need to be careful and clear about how you communicate and no one single person should just go and speak as a representative of the admin and mod team without the approval to do so (the varied range of manner of responses clearly shows that this didn't happen).
But instead you decided to go off the cuff to say what you personally felt but then claim it was the views of the staff as a whole. You then completely misrepresented what happens in that thread to create a narrative that suits your general dislike for the thread in order to crack down on it despite the fact that no one had been posting any sexual content about minors. Two seconds of back reading would have shown you that a) minors are rarely ever brought up and when they are, they don't trigger any real discussion and are never sexualized (adult idols aren't even sexualized) and b) we do have "educational" posts on lgbt issues. In fact during that very exchange I posted a long post about representation of gay characters in mainstream media from the 80s-00s. With the whole argument deleted, it was even easier to find and it is still up if you want to see for yourself:
https://onehallyu.com/topic/64-which-male-idols-do-you-think-are-gay/?p=30084256
Furthermore you did so using pointed language saying we were "creepy" grown adults, "fixated" on creating "fantasies" about 15 year olds. All of those counts are patently false and are homophobic dog whistles, of the creepy perverted homosexual who preys on children to corrupt them towards their deviant ways. Words have meanings beyond what you intend and the impact of your actions are greater than your supposed intent. You may not in your "heart of hearts" be a homophobe, but that post definitely was homophobic. Own that and don't deflect the blame back on the people who have personally been thrown that BS their whole lives and still have to overcome that negative, harmful, and false perception everyday.
This is the heart of the matter and why people aren't going to let this go. It's not about a need to talk about minors. It was about cracking down on a thread on the grounds of baseless accusations and the implicitly homophobic idea that identifying someone as gay is inherently harmful to that person, particularly if they are a minor or child. Then trying to backtrack to save face and decide to unilaterally ban any discussion of minor's personal lives as they pertain to their possible sexual orientation to "protect" them from something that isn't inherently harmful. The fact that this has to be broken down to you repeatedly by actual LGBT people makes myself and others remain very skeptical about your "circle of friends" because this is like Being Gay 101.
This whole thing has been so disgraceful and poorly handled and is just the latest in a pattern of behavior that has been shown time and time again on this site in the years I have been an active member here of the disdain for the gay and lesbian threads and the uneven moderation where complaints about trolls and people baiting and going off topic in that thread get ignored, yet one person going into historonics calling a bunch of gay people pedophiles for not even discussing minors means there needs to be a site wide crackdown. It's a joke and has pretty much shredded your credibility.
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The actions of the mods/admin in this situation have been shamefully ignorant.
It's the height of tomfoolery to assume that identifying as pan or LGBTQ means you have perfect empathy and knowledge of everything that touches the topic of sexuality and shouldn't be criticized for poor logic. You can be pan or gay or what have you and still be a complete fool when it comes to rational discussion about sexuality; look at Milo Yiannopoulos.
I'm genuinely embarrassed that instead of taking the time to sit down and hear what people are saying, they're digging in their heels, talking in circles, and using rules that can't be enforced in any practical way sitewide to shut down discussion on this thread that isn't in the least sexual.
Personally, I think we should all just discuss what we want. Let them try to ban the hundreds of users who visit this topic if they'd like OH to get even quieter than it already was pre-Burning Sun. What a bitter irony that it was the evil behavior of straight men who reinvigorated this forum at the same time that the mods decided that people talking about gay teens having crushes was the hill they wanted to die on.
THANK YOU. People are specualting about what other idols could be caught up in this scandal entailing serious criminal activity that would definitely end a career and result in some jail time, but people saying a teenager might be gay based on some random screencap of them wearing clothes that isn't getting sent back to them or trending on Twitter, THAT is the really damaging behavior that needs to be shutdown.
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Can we get some direct guidelines and an answer if this will be something enforced across the board on the site and cite actual examples of things that happened in this thread that crossed the line? Because someone overreacting and calling people pedophiles is not it.
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Why not just come up with a definition of sexual content, post it the rule book so everybody knows what does and doesn't count and everyone will be clear on what to post and mods will be clear on what they need to moderate? In the few years I have been following this thread minors have NEVER been discussed in a sexual manner. When people come in asking "so who do you think is a top/bottom?" that line of convo gets shut down. There was no basis for the blow up in the first place, no one was endorsing pedophilia. That was the claim that set everything off and was the source of contention and should have just been shut down and we would have all moved on. There doesn't need to be some new rule to address something that was a non-issue because the conversation was in no way sexual and wasn't on some slippery slope to being one either. If we're taking such pre-emptive matters because "we really can't be sure or have control" you shouldn't even have a nsfw thread on site that you allow minors on anyway without a way to prevent them from even accessing that content.
This whole issue got to a level it never needed to go to in the first place because of kneejerk reactions and minimizing everything about non-straight identities being only about sex, which any one of your LGBTQ+ identifying mods would know there is so much more to it than that.
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FYI Y'all this post is still up even after I pointed out to the mod that she didn't delete this with the rest of the discussion.
That's telling.
Yeah I was just about to ask why that hysterical post was still up and everything else got deleted.
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I know there was a discussion some time ago. I just wanted to discuss it again since it has been some pages ago and not everyone goes back and i'm recently seeing people being hesitant on talking about groups that have minors recently. But is is a good point that it's because of straight people. Probably since a lot of the content that has lgbt representation, hopefully this changes,tends to focus on the sexual parts and/or the party life. There wasnt a show/movie that had the cute side of romance or just a person that goes through their day but happens to be lgbt. Please tell me if im wrong since im not that familiar with past lgbt content, im going by the few shows and movies that ive known.
A good example is that when i was a teenager one of the most famous gay tv shows was queer as folk, which included a lot of night stands, aids, etc with focus on the softcore porn. Or the popular brokeback mountain that was about a repressed gay cheating on his wife and having lots of sex with his lover. Compared to today, we have one day at a time that is about the daily life of a gay latina and, i forgot the name of the show on netflix and im working, the one where gay people help others change their fashion and lifestyle. Hopefully this mindset changes as this becomes more common.
I'm backreading and just wanted to address the gay media representation bit particularly regarding QAF and why it was what it was:
Actually early LGBT representation (that was sympathetic and not like gay coded villains) were actually very desexualized. You had a gay main character on Dynasty in the 80s with Steve Carrington whose gay lover was killed then he got married to Heather Locklear's character and then was de-gayed after they recast the character. One of the original main characters on Melrose Place, Matt, was gay and you wouldn't have known he was because he had next to NO physical intimacy with his love interests and he was on the show for several seasons. Meanwhile all of the straight characters were having raunchy love scenes like every episode and bed hopping like no one's business. Will & Grace also debuted in the 90s and while Will and Jack dated and talked about their love lives, it wasn't any different from other sitcom characters of the time. Soap operas also were introducing more gay characters around the late 90s early 00s and they too were desexualized as not to offend more conservative straight people. I mean it was a big deal when a gay couple would finally kiss, like it was an event. And even then they would happen very sporadically. These couples were also very traditionally masculine for gay couples and feminine for lesbian couples.
Queer As Folk came on in this context as a show that unapologetically embraced same gender loving sexuality when literally no other show did at the time. The show was very intentionally not concerned about what straight people would think. It was said directly in the characterization of Brian as the unapologetically gay and sexual character who didn't believe in marriage equality and criticized the other gay characters for trying to appear respectable in the eyes of straight people to gain acceptance. The characters had a lot of sex because you couldn't see gay characters have fully realized intimate relationships the way straight characters did on every show. And they didn't just have sex and club and do drugs, they had deep and caring friendships and relationships, struggled with a variety of issues that didn't only have to do with them being gay though their experiences as gay people affected how they navigated their careers, education, family dynamics, finances, etc. The show was actually very revolutionary in presenting all aspects of gay life in a very affirmative way and made the statement that gay people don't need to be perfect "normal" people to be accepted and loved. Just the character of Emmett alone was a big deal because you would never have a campy femme character who was also fully-realized and sympathetic and not just a caricature at that time anywhere else on TV. And Queer as Folk came on premium cable too so a lot less people saw that than they did the other portrayals I mentioned earlier that all came on broadcast television and had significantly larger audiences.
Suffice to say, I think it's actually been the opposite where there are a lot more desexualized portrayals of LGBT characters in media than there are shows like Queer As Folk which is why that show is still so popular among the community despite a lot of it's problems (like the fact that there are like no POC characters other than the anonymous tricks who have no lines)
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Question for everyone here, is there a consensus of idols whose body language immediately pings you? Like, the way they walk and sit and generally move about? I've been watching Taeyong lately and I always notice certain gestures and movements that he does, that sets off my gaydar (but as a Taeyong stan, I may be projecting lol). Anyway, I obviously I don't want to generalize or adhere to stereotypes, but as we saw with Jimin in Malta, some things are just so innate that it's practically unconscious.
I definitely agree with Taeyong, when I started paying attention to him more offstage when I was first getting into NCT his mannerisms really pinged. And the fact that he self-describes himself as "girly" just backs that up. Daehwi is another one, I've never seen anyone here even suggest the possibility he isn't gay. I also feel this way about a good chunk of The Boyz, namely Q, New, Kevin, and Jacob.
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I know you aren't going to claim there are no gay people in the club music scene when club music was literally pioneered by gay people. I really can't.
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But that is only showing of the military and its leaders. The media industry and it's target market, the youth, are very supportive of homosexuality. I think that any gay person would have outed themselves to their fans by now because the youth and the companies are supportive - it's mostly older conservative types that rule the country who are homophobic.
Men are required by law to serve in the military by a certain age. If the military is arresting soldiers for being gay, and you have to serve in the military or get thrown into prison, in what world would you come out as a public figure being open about your sexuality unless you want to become a martyr for the cause. There is also employment discrimination, losing relationships with your family and their support. The youth aren't the ones hiring people and holding stock in these companies, or running the government.
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I've come across this blog before and i disagree with many of their opinions in general (Suho, Seungkwan, Vernon and Mingyu straight? HANI STRAIGHT? In what universe lmao) but especially their Taeyong analysis... how are they going to claim he's got internalized homophobia when he's done/said zero things to prove that? And it's usually SM that picks their on-stage personas. Taeyong isn't "acting manly" on stage to hide something as the post suggests, he himself has said he's soft and sensitive and if you watch any off-stage video with him you can instantly tell he isn't like his "rough" stage persona.
Maybe Taeyong has struggled (or struggles still? Idk) with his sexuality, many of us have gone through that, but i can't see him as having any internalized homophobia at all. If anything, he's very much aware of who he is and what he wants and isn't shy about it, or he wouldn't be writing songs about it all.
I thought the same thing reading that blog post. Taeyong has made 0 effort to make people think he's straight, lol. Especially not when he straight up said he has no intrest in women, and when given the "because you're so focused on your career, right?" out, he doubled down on having 0 interest and being more comfortable with guys! I do think he probably had an internal struggle in being confident in his sexuality like a couple of years ago but like you said, that's a far cry from internalized homophobia.
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Oh yes definitely! I was just adding my opinions onto broiledcabbages points, since I had spent the past hour reading the entire thread, and also seeing those types of comments a lot. I do realize that many people are commenting and it's not everyone saying those things, but they showed up enough for me to want to add onto what broiledcabbage was saying.
Thank you for the welcome! I like to speculate as well, and as you can see I've already written some other posts after that one about others. But I guess my post offended people since I'm getting negged for it and for writing my opinions on BTS literally seconds after I posted it, and it's the same type of BTS speculation post where you just list the members and what you think that I saw dozens of other people have written in this thread. Sort of sucks since I thought this was the one place I could openly express my views as LGBT...
If you've been reading the entire thread, then you know that people leave cultural difference reminders with no reference to any specific thing that prompted them and it just comes off condescending because most people here are aware (as we've been told countless times) and can tell the difference between platonic cues and non-platonic cues so after the umpteenth time, it gets annoying and people reflexively neg. It's better to just point out what you specifically don't find suspicious due to cultural reasons because otherwise people will assume you are broad brushing them as delusional when they aren't making brash conclusions.
Also, the thread has its own culture that is a mix between speculation/analysis but also just appreciation posts in regards to displays of same sex intimacy even if they are only platonic because we otherwise don't get those representations and a lot of us our limited in our ability to freely express even platonic intimacy without it being scrutinized and condemned for it being "gay." A lot of times no one means anything by the hand holding pictures or whatever when they are just posted with no context. Usually if people are going to bring up someone's comments or how tactile they are it is in the context of a lot of other patterns in behavior that would suggest this isn't just friendly skinship or whatever.
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Which male idols do you think are gay?
in Celebrity News & Gossip
Posted · Edited by Shaandenigma
Correcting late night grammar, lol
I didn't clown you but it's probably because after you shredded those Soobin receipts apart quite rationally, you turn around and post a bunch of weak receipts for the biggest ship-as-marketing-ploy, TaeTen. Those Vlive clips all came from the Baby Don't Stop era where SM kept having them go live on almost a daily basis to promote their unit. The SuperM clips are vague in the sense that it's not clear that Taeyong was actually looking at Ten and not the several other people and things in his line of vision, or even nothing at all, and it seemed like Ten was laughing at Mark's rambling answer in that interview. It makes sense that Ten would be the only one laughing as he is the only other person with a good command of English to know all that Mark was saying.
Now when it comes to Jaeyong, I've always found them sus for the fact that they stopped engaging in skinship or having any interactions that would hint at them being close (even platonically) if they were aware a camera was around and on them. But "off camera" it would be the opposite. This was in like 2017. I'm pretty sure I did a breakdown in the thread on that situation back then. Their interactions before that unexplained freeze, an overly angsty paper scroll message from Taeyong to Jaehyun, and then some of their more recent interactions like the video you posted, have led me to believe that if Taeyong was attracted to anyone in that group it would be Jaehyun and that at one point early on it may have been mutual, but definitely stronger on Taeyong's end because he always initiates and usually when they aren't the focus of attention. Jaeyong flies under the radar because of they don't have a steady flow of meaningful interactions compared to other NCT ships that get pushed to the forefront and because of the successful "straigtening" of Jaehyun
by stripping him of any inkling of a personality.So that post just got clowned due to a combination of a lot of your posts coming off as delusional ship spamming and a lot of people seeing Jaehyun as straight because he's boring/Jaeyong being a dead-on-arrival ship.
Kudos on that GIF of Taeyong sashaying with the iced coffee because that was peak gay.